2023-2024 EPL Season

[bleedblue1223]

On a positive note, I'm pretty sure we can break an EPL record this season, unfortunately, it's for most yellows in a season. Leeds had 101 in 21/22, and with 73 in 23, we are pacing for 120.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Is there any sort of league policy on supplemental discipline re: feigning head injuries to draw stoppages/cards? Havertz did it again today (he wasn't the only one, but he's got a pattern of it now), and it's pretty disgusting to keep seeing.

 

[hatterson]

Is there any sort of league policy on supplemental discipline re: feigning head injuries to draw stoppages/cards? Havertz did it again today (he wasn't the only one, but he's got a pattern of it now), and it's pretty disgusting to keep seeing.

None that I’m aware of. There should be though.

 

[Chimaera]

it's hard to legislate out of the game. You kind of got to take it with the good and the bad. Maybe with a head injury, the player has to sit out to get into a NFL style tent until cleared.

But a lot of the times, the grabbing the face / head is to try and get a foul with potentially a card.

 

[hatterson]

it's hard to legislate out of the game. You kind of got to take it with the good and the bad. Maybe with a head injury, the player has to sit out to get into a NFL style tent until cleared.

But a lot of the times, the grabbing the face / head is to try and get a foul with potentially a card.

With Havertz yesterday it was grabbing his face in an attempt to influence the ref to give out a card despite only getting a hand to the chest. It didn't matter much since Konate definitely deserved the yellow for blocking him off regardless of where his hand hit, but I still see no reason that reactions like that shouldn't be awarded a retroactive yellow card.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, that would be tough to do in the moment to determine what is genuine and what isn't, but there should certainly be retroactive deterrents.

 

[Chimaera]

I guess this goes here?

yeesh this is doom and gloom.

Disruptive owners, managerial questions and financial concerns: Chelsea are a $1bn mess

With mounting long-term financial concerns, there is no quick fix in sight for the club’s on-field struggles

www.theguardian.com

 

[Savant]

With Havertz yesterday it was grabbing his face in an attempt to influence the ref to give out a card despite only getting a hand to the chest. It didn't matter much since Konate definitely deserved the yellow for blocking him off regardless of where his hand hit, but I still see no reason that reactions like that shouldn't be awarded a retroactive yellow card.

Speaking of, do you have an opinion on why Konate got a yellow yesterday and Gabriel did not for basically the same thing?

Shouldn't necessarily have effected the end result but alas.

 

[HeHateMeFrisbee]

I guess this goes here?

yeesh this is doom and gloom.

Disruptive owners, managerial questions and financial concerns: Chelsea are a $1bn mess

With mounting long-term financial concerns, there is no quick fix in sight for the club’s on-field struggles

www.theguardian.com

It really is. They really have created themselves a huge mess.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I guess this goes here?

yeesh this is doom and gloom.

Disruptive owners, managerial questions and financial concerns: Chelsea are a $1bn mess

With mounting long-term financial concerns, there is no quick fix in sight for the club’s on-field struggles

www.theguardian.com

Seems like meh surface level analysis. I laughed at the part about Lampard being brought up in the ways of the club as an academy kid. When we purchased him, he was already a full-time starter for West Ham for 4 years in the EPL. I'd some Palmer could be a decent comp there, but not really.

I'm not so much worried about the academy being able to fund the system through player sales, it can, it will, and honestly, there aren't many from there that are sold that we have huge regrets about.
Our issue, which I talked about when everyone was upset about it was the 8 year deals. It's a double-edged sword. Those deals will bring the amortization cost down, but if the player flops, we are stuck with them for a long time. For 1, teams aren't going to be interested in buying those players, and 2, we'd have to sell them for a very high fee to just break-even. If someone like Caicedo flops, but a team is willing to pay 50M for him, we simply can not eat that loss, but if it was amortized over a shorter period, we could make a cheap sale at an earlier point without having to eat a loss.

Caicedo and Enzo are major issues if they don't bring their game up a level or 2 or 3. Fofana is an issue if he can't stay healthy and perform to his potential. Reece and Chilwell don't have transfer fees, but big wages on injury prone players isn't good. Cucurella is someone we'll probably be stuck with for a few more years. Mudryk isn't on crazy wages, and we won't have to worry about paying his add-ons anytime soon, so he could be moved sooner than later, but probably need a few seasons or a loan to see if we can make something on him.

At this point, Chelsea's future is dependent on a manager getting Caicedo and Enzo working as a partnership. If it can't happen, we are screwed, if it does, you at least have a foundation to work from. With no Hazard type player, there isn't anyone to just carry the team to success.

 

[Savant]

Graham Potter​

Games: 22

Wins: 7
Draws: 7
Losses: 8

Points: 28

Goals Scored: 21
Goals Conceded: 21
Clean Sheets: 8

##

Mauricio Pochettino​

Games: 23

Wins: 9
Draws: 4
Losses: 10

Points: 31

Goals Scored: 38
Goals Conceded: 39
Clean Sheets: 5

STONKS

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Graham Potter​

Games: 22

Wins: 7
Draws: 7
Losses: 8

Points: 28

Goals Scored: 21
Goals Conceded: 21
Clean Sheets: 8

##

Mauricio Pochettino​

Games: 23

Wins: 9
Draws: 4
Losses: 10

Points: 31

Goals Scored: 38
Goals Conceded: 39
Clean Sheets: 5

STONKS

But they looked so good in the pre-season.

 

[Chimaera]

Seems like meh surface level analysis. I laughed at the part about Lampard being brought up in the ways of the club as an academy kid. When we purchased him, he was already a full-time starter for West Ham for 4 years in the EPL. I'd some Palmer could be a decent comp there, but not really.

I'm not so much worried about the academy being able to fund the system through player sales, it can, it will, and honestly, there aren't many from there that are sold that we have huge regrets about.
Our issue, which I talked about when everyone was upset about it was the 8 year deals. It's a double-edged sword. Those deals will bring the amortization cost down, but if the player flops, we are stuck with them for a long time. For 1, teams aren't going to be interested in buying those players, and 2, we'd have to sell them for a very high fee to just break-even. If someone like Caicedo flops, but a team is willing to pay 50M for him, we simply can not eat that loss, but if it was amortized over a shorter period, we could make a cheap sale at an earlier point without having to eat a loss.

Caicedo and Enzo are major issues if they don't bring their game up a level or 2 or 3. Fofana is an issue if he can't stay healthy and perform to his potential. Reece and Chilwell don't have transfer fees, but big wages on injury prone players isn't good. Cucurella is someone we'll probably be stuck with for a few more years. Mudryk isn't on crazy wages, and we won't have to worry about paying his add-ons anytime soon, so he could be moved sooner than later, but probably need a few seasons or a loan to see if we can make something on him.

At this point, Chelsea's future is dependent on a manager getting Caicedo and Enzo working as a partnership. If it can't happen, we are screwed, if it does, you at least have a foundation to work from. With no Hazard type player, there isn't anyone to just carry the team to success.

It is surface level analysis. But you can also go a bit deeper into some of the actual numbers from the projected financials.

Unless there's a massive new loop hole found, or a way to inject millions of cash, they will likely run afoul of new penalties (beyond what they likely avoided under Roman, though there is ongoing investigations there).

It does also reiterate that they have to likely sell anything that breathes from the academy going forward. Whether or not the going into Terry / Lampard "what it means to be Chelsea" is accurate, I do think some of the culture loss is a big deal. Players like Mount, Gallagher, James and others being sacrificed to fund players who have no loyalty to the club beyond what their paystub says is not a good thing.

I also think the bigger issue for Chelsea, beyond an increasingly short balance sheet, is that they have some glaring holes. They really need a central defender in all likelihood as Silva is still probably one of their better players, but cannot be relied upon. They also need a striker. Neither move is cheap, and neither move really has money to be found in the budget.

Speaking of, do you have an opinion on why Konate got a yellow yesterday and Gabriel did not for basically the same thing?

Shouldn't necessarily have effected the end result but alas.

I guess there's degree of how much of a chance it stops.

It's so stupidly subjective.

 

[bleedblue1223]

It is surface level analysis. But you can also go a bit deeper into some of the actual numbers from the projected financials.

Unless there's a massive new loop hole found, or a way to inject millions of cash, they will likely run afoul of new penalties (beyond what they likely avoided under Roman, though there is ongoing investigations there).

It does also reiterate that they have to likely sell anything that breathes from the academy going forward. Whether or not the going into Terry / Lampard "what it means to be Chelsea" is accurate, I do think some of the culture loss is a big deal. Players like Mount, Gallagher, James and others being sacrificed to fund players who have no loyalty to the club beyond what their paystub says is not a good thing.

I also think the bigger issue for Chelsea, beyond an increasingly short balance sheet, is that they have some glaring holes. They really need a central defender in all likelihood as Silva is still probably one of their better players, but cannot be relied upon. They also need a striker. Neither move is cheap, and neither move really has money to be found in the budget.

The issue with the Terry/Lampard part is, if we look back at the Roman era, it was just Terry as someone that came throught the academy. I suppose we could count guys like Mount and James at the end, but for the primary glory years of the Roman era, it was just Terry. So, it's nothing new about not having the academy utilized at the 1st team level, whether they were just never good enough in those earlier Roman years, or if they are now viewed as a profit center. I'd agree that we've lost our culture, but you don't only get culture through acedemy kids, and you don't only get loyalty through those players either. Drogba, Lampard, Cahill, Ivanovic, Azpilicueta, etc., the list goes on and on.

 

[Jussi]

 

[hatterson]

Speaking of, do you have an opinion on why Konate got a yellow yesterday and Gabriel did not for basically the same thing?

Shouldn't necessarily have effected the end result but alas.

Honestly I was only half paying attention to the game so don’t recall the Gabriel one. I really only saw the Konate one because the announcers obviously drew more attention to it given the second yellow piece.

Yeah, that would be tough to do in the moment to determine what is genuine and what isn't, but there should certainly be retroactive deterrents.

Yea it would be pretty hard for an official to know for sure that a finger didn’t poke him in the nose or something when looking live speed at that, likely from behind, and 20-30 yards away. Its the perfect opportunity for retroactive video to be used though.

I’m also only supporting yellows for clear faking/deception like with Havertz yesterday. Something like when Zouma got a hand to the face against United and tried to make it seem like way more than it was is just routine dramatics. I’d love to see less of it, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to have some dude in an office handing out retroactive yellows by second guessing and analyzing how much something that objectively happened hurt and how much players should react to it.

 

[Chimaera]

The issue with the Terry/Lampard part is, if we look back at the Roman era, it was just Terry as someone that came throught the academy. I suppose we could count guys like Mount and James at the end, but for the primary glory years of the Roman era, it was just Terry. So, it's nothing new about not having the academy utilized at the 1st team level, whether they were just never good enough in those earlier Roman years, or if they are now viewed as a profit center. I'd agree that we've lost our culture, but you don't only get culture through acedemy kids, and you don't only get loyalty through those players either. Drogba, Lampard, Cahill, Ivanovic, Azpilicueta, etc., the list goes on and on.

Sure... but who is going to teach them the culture? Especially if it's a mercenary mentality.


Hell, who would want to go there as a prospect if they're going to get flogged off the second they break through the first team to service debt.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Sure... but who is going to teach them the culture? Especially if it's a mercenary mentality.


Hell, who would want to go there as a prospect if they're going to get flogged off the second they break through the first team to service debt.

In the Roman era, it was Roman, that's been made clear by a lot of the interviews of some of the core players now that they've retired. I'm not saying it isn't a question moving forward, but it's not like you need academy products to build an identity and culture.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Terry and Lampard (and then subsequently Cech and Drogba) set a serious tone for new arrivals. They also rubbed off on a new generation of leaders which succeeded them - Cahill and Azpilicueta chief among them (although I definitely had moments, documented on this board, of doubting Azpilicueta as a captain and still thinking there was a little bit of a leadership problem post-Cahill).

There is no one in this team who is part of that genealogy, really. Not just no one who played with Terry or Lampard! There are no players in the Chelsea squad who shared a pitch with Gary Cahill for a single minute.

It's insanely clear that the big problem with this Chelsea side is that it's filled with players who are incredibly incredibly raw. People laughed at "you can't win anything with kids" when the Class of '92 won the title in 1996, but that team had Steve Bruce, Peter Schmeichel, Denis Irwin, Eric Cantona, Gary Pallister, and Roy Keane as nailed on veteran starters! How many of our goals against have come from sloppy errors that are the result of inexperience? So many! Most of them!

There is a serious leadership/experience deficit in this squad. And it is palpable. People are losing their heads because there is not a Terry/Cahill type to settle things. Thiago Silva can only do so f***ing much. Rudiger leaving was entirely a function of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (they literally could not negotiate a contract extension), but there are other departures of experienced players that were utterly, utterly avoidable. How badly could Enzo and Caicedo use Jorginho or Kante or Kovacic next to them?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Terry and Lampard (and then subsequently Cech and Drogba) set a serious tone for new arrivals. They also rubbed off on a new generation of leaders which succeeded them - Cahill and Azpilicueta chief among them (although I definitely had moments, documented on this board, of doubting Azpilicueta as a captain and still thinking there was a little bit of a leadership problem post-Cahill).

There is no one in this team who is part of that genealogy, really. Not just no one who played with Terry or Lampard! There are no players in the Chelsea squad who shared a pitch with Gary Cahill for a single minute.

It's insanely clear that the big problem with this Chelsea side is that it's filled with players who are incredibly incredibly raw. People laughed at "you can't win anything with kids" when the Class of '92 won the title in 1996, but that team had Steve Bruce, Peter Schmeichel, Denis Irwin, Eric Cantona, Gary Pallister, and Roy Keane as nailed on veteran starters! How many of our goals against have come from sloppy errors that are the result of inexperience? So many! Most of them!

There is a serious leadership/experience deficit in this squad. And it is palpable. People are losing their heads because there is not a Terry/Cahill type to settle things. Thiago Silva can only do so f***ing much. Rudiger leaving was entirely a function of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (they literally could not negotiate a contract extension), but there are other departures of experienced players that were utterly, utterly avoidable. How badly could Enzo and Caicedo use Jorginho or Kante or Kovacic next to them?

Yeah, I'm not arguing that it's not a major issue, and trying to win with raw kids will keep us on the path we are on, I just disagree that you have to rely on the academy to have build that culture and identity that we used to have, especially when players cited didn't come from our academy.

Silva helped, but his age is starting to be a factor. I think you can purchase those players that have that mentality and bring that leadership with them, but I'm still not sure if that's something that we are even prioritizing.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Yeah, I'm not arguing that it's not a major issue, and trying to win with raw kids will keep us on the path we are on, I just disagree that you have to rely on the academy to have build that culture and identity that we used to have, especially when players cited didn't come from our academy.

Silva helped, but his age is starting to be a factor. I think you can purchase those players that have that mentality and bring that leadership with them, but I'm still not sure if that's something that we are even prioritizing.

Oh I definitely agree with you that they don't by necessity need to be academy-based. You need vets to bring through academy players.

Not only are we not prioritizing it, we're not even contemplating it. After Sterling and Koulibaly went poorly last year they hardcore over-corrected.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Oh I definitely agree with you that they don't by necessity need to be academy-based. You need vets to bring through academy players.

Not only are we not prioritizing it, we're not even contemplating it. After Sterling and Koulibaly went poorly last year they hardcore over-corrected.

There is going to be an interesting documentary/tell-all either a decade+ from now or when all the directors are fired. Are the Directors making a lot of these decisions, or are they just names being told what to do?

 

[maclean]

Terry and Lampard (and then subsequently Cech and Drogba) set a serious tone for new arrivals. They also rubbed off on a new generation of leaders which succeeded them - Cahill and Azpilicueta chief among them (although I definitely had moments, documented on this board, of doubting Azpilicueta as a captain and still thinking there was a little bit of a leadership problem post-Cahill).

There is no one in this team who is part of that genealogy, really. Not just no one who played with Terry or Lampard! There are no players in the Chelsea squad who shared a pitch with Gary Cahill for a single minute.

It's insanely clear that the big problem with this Chelsea side is that it's filled with players who are incredibly incredibly raw. People laughed at "you can't win anything with kids" when the Class of '92 won the title in 1996, but that team had Steve Bruce, Peter Schmeichel, Denis Irwin, Eric Cantona, Gary Pallister, and Roy Keane as nailed on veteran starters! How many of our goals against have come from sloppy errors that are the result of inexperience? So many! Most of them!

There is a serious leadership/experience deficit in this squad. And it is palpable. People are losing their heads because there is not a Terry/Cahill type to settle things. Thiago Silva can only do so f***ing much. Rudiger leaving was entirely a function of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (they literally could not negotiate a contract extension), but there are other departures of experienced players that were utterly, utterly avoidable. How badly could Enzo and Caicedo use Jorginho or Kante or Kovacic next to them?

Either that or maybe they just need to buy Osimhen

 

[Blender]

• £115m - Caicedo (CM)
• £105m - Enzo (CM)
• £85m (including add-ons) - Mudryk (WF)
• £75m - Fofana (CB)
• £60m - Cucerella (LB)
• £60m - Lavia (CM)
• £50m (plus over £300k a week wages) - Sterling (WF)
• £50m - Nkuku (CF)
• £42.5m - Palmer (AM)
• £38m - Disasi (CB)
• £35m - Koulibaly (CB)
• £35m - Badiashile (CB)
• £32m - Jackson (ST)
• £25m Gusto (RB)
• £25m - Sanchez (GK)
• £15m - Petrovich (GK)
• £10m - Aubamyang (ST)
• £100m - several youth "prospects":
  • DDF (£10m)
  • Chuckwemeka (£20m)
  • Madueke (£30m)
  • Santos (£18m)
  • Ugochuckwu (£23m)

Total - £957.5 MILLION

While there are some obvious bad deals on there, even if many of those prices are fine for the individual quality of player, I think it's safe to say I or many other posters on this board could have spent that £1 billion in a better and more coherent way.

 

[maclean]

The context really highlights what good deals Nkunku and Palmer were