2023-2024 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

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simon IC

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When do we want to start talking about whether to keep Banister or not and if not him then who?
My only concern regarding Bannister is I think he may be too favouring of some of his Springfield guys; most noticeably Walker and Perunovich. Conversely, I also wonder if he is biased against Alexandrov.
As for a replacement, I wonder if we can lure someone like Guy Boucher put of Toronto. He seems to have really helped in making that team better defensively.
 
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I hate to be the guy that does it, but the longer Brind'Amour hangs out there the more I wonder if we don't make a pitch for him.

-- Damn it, ninja'd above.
 
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BadgersandBlues

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My only concern regarding Bannister is I think he may be too favouring of some of his Springfield guys; most noticeably Walker and Perunovich. Conversely, I also wonder if he is biased against Alexandrov.
As for a replacement, I wonder if we can lure someone like Guy Boucher put of Toronto. He seems to have really helped in making that team better defensively.
Walker has been quietly solid this year. Unlike in years past where he would come in with a ton of energy and jam, moving play in the right direction for 2-3 games before falling off, he has surprisingly kept up a steady level of play over a longer stretch then he was previously capable. He's producing well above a 4th line level on his per/60 metrics. I don't think he should be given a bigger role, but Walker has been an above average 4th liner this season.

Peru is fine. I really don't understand the frustration people have with him. What were people's expectations going into this year? He had all of 25 total NHL games and that was two seasons ago. Has he been sheltered? Yes. But he's also produced fairly well in his role.

At 5v5 he's the top D in terms of Corsi and Fenwick percentage, and he's right below Krug and Faulk (6th best on the team) in xGF%. He's producing the most assists/60 of all our D-core, and he's MILES ahead of anyone on primary assists/60 of our D-core. He has a positive GF/GA differential at 5v5 of +1 and is even overall on the year. Peru is currently making league minimum against the cap.

On the PP, Peru has about 100 minutes, same as Faulk. Krug has double. Peru has as many primary assists in that 100 minutes as Krug has in 200, at 3. Krug has more secondary assists at 7 to Peru's 3. Neither of them has scored a PP goal all year (In fact, the only D-man with a PP goal at all is Faulk, at 1. This is a big reason why our PP sucks, b/c no one on the point is a threat to score). Again, Peru is currently making league minimum against the cap.
 

BrokenFace

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My only concern regarding Bannister is I think he may be too favouring of some of his Springfield guys; most noticeably Walker and Perunovich. Conversely, I also wonder if he is biased against Alexandrov.
As for a replacement, I wonder if we can lure someone like Guy Boucher put of Toronto. He seems to have really helped in making that team better defensively.
Doesn't Peru still have to get in more games to avoid becoming a UFA this summer? Any Peru favoritism may be coming from management to keep him under team control rather than Bannister.
 

Majorityof1

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Walker has been quietly solid this year. Unlike in years past where he would come in with a ton of energy and jam, moving play in the right direction for 2-3 games before falling off, he has surprisingly kept up a steady level of play over a longer stretch then he was previously capable. He's producing well above a 4th line level on his per/60 metrics. I don't think he should be given a bigger role, but Walker has been an above average 4th liner this season.

Peru is fine. I really don't understand the frustration people have with him. What were people's expectations going into this year? He had all of 25 total NHL games and that was two seasons ago. Has he been sheltered? Yes. But he's also produced fairly well in his role.

At 5v5 he's the top D in terms of Corsi and Fenwick percentage, and he's right below Krug and Faulk (6th best on the team) in xGF%. He's producing the most assists/60 of all our D-core, and he's MILES ahead of anyone on primary assists/60 of our D-core. He has a positive GF/GA differential at 5v5 of +1 and is even overall on the year. Peru is currently making league minimum against the cap.

On the PP, Peru has about 100 minutes, same as Faulk. Krug has double. Peru has as many primary assists in that 100 minutes as Krug has in 200, at 3. Krug has more secondary assists at 7 to Peru's 3. Neither of them has scored a PP goal all year (In fact, the only D-man with a PP goal at all is Faulk, at 1. This is a big reason why our PP sucks, b/c no one on the point is a threat to score). Again, Peru is currently making league minimum against the cap.

Those Perunovich stats are also in extremely sheltered minutes. It's easy to have good Corsi when you are put in offensive situations and against the other teams worst players consistently.

He has made a ton of truly awful defensive plays. Both because he is not good physically (poor stick and small) where he just gets out muscled but also because he makes awful decisions.

The first goal against Vegas was 100% his fault. He left good ice to chase a player against the boards after Walker lost balance, and left Faulk to cover the entire slot and crease alone against 2 knights. That is the norm for him, not the exception.

There is a good reason that when the bench gets shortened, he is the one getting pushed off the end.
 

Brian39

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Doesn't Peru still have to get in more games to avoid becoming a UFA this summer? Any Peru favoritism may be coming from management to keep him under team control rather than Bannister.
I don't love speculating about management telling coaches that certain guys have to be in the lineup no matter what, because at the end of the day it is just speculation. But I had that thought as well when we went 11-7 against Vegas. Whether it is explicitly stated or not, I think Bannister is well aware that the front office doesn't want to lose Perunovich as a UFA due to a lack of games played in a year where we miss the playoffs.
 

Brian39

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Brind'Amour made it pretty clear that it was Carolina or bust during his last round of contract negotiations. To the point where it probably cost him some money on his contract. He could have a change of heart if Carolina decides to move on, but he isn't really known for hiding the ball. Carolina has been his family's home for almost 25 years, he had $52M in career earnings as a player and he's been making NHL head coach money for 6 years now.

I really, really wouldn't be surprised if he actually isn't interested in coaching somewhere else. Maybe that changes if Carolina moves on, but I'd wager that he would take a full year off to make that decision. I think the odds of him coaching anywhere but Carolina next year are extremely slim.
 

BlueDream

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When do we want to start talking about whether to keep Banister or not and if not him then who?
I’ve started talking about it.

I just don’t see any reason to bring him back as our NHL coach. I mean what has he done to earn it? I think if we made the playoffs, it may have made sense to keep him. But we’re not going to so what’s the point?

Jay Woodcroft is the name I’ve been pushing for a while. Underrated coach that has had good success in his young career.
 

Snubbed4Vezina

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Brind'Amour made it pretty clear that it was Carolina or bust during his last round of contract negotiations. To the point where it probably cost him some money on his contract. He could have a change of heart if Carolina decides to move on, but he isn't really known for hiding the ball. Carolina has been his family's home for almost 25 years, he had $52M in career earnings as a player and he's been making NHL head coach money for 6 years now.

I really, really wouldn't be surprised if he actually isn't interested in coaching somewhere else. Maybe that changes if Carolina moves on, but I'd wager that he would take a full year off to make that decision. I think the odds of him coaching anywhere but Carolina next year are extremely slim.
Don't ruin this for me. :laugh:
 

Brian39

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I’ve started talking about it.

I just don’t see any reason to bring him back as our NHL coach. I mean what has he done to earn it? I think if we made the playoffs, it may have made sense to keep him. But we’re not going to so what’s the point?

Jay Woodcroft is the name I’ve been pushing for a while. Underrated coach that has had good success in his young career.
Neighbours has played about half of his pro games under Bannister and I think that he has rapidly improved a lot of elements to his game since Bannister took over in the NHL this season. I've been pretty happy with the way a lot of our 2nd tier prospects have come along through the AHL when he was coaching there and I've been impressed at the way many have looked at the NHL level in brief looks this season with him at the helm.

Neighbours is for sure going to continue his development in the NHL next year. I think Kessel will too. Snuggy may or may not develop on the fly in the NHL next season. Same with Bolduc and/or Dean. I'm not sure what the plan will be for Dvorsky next year, but I would guess that Stenberg/Lindstein are going to be in the SHL rather than the AHL.

I think he has a good resume as a development coach and I think there is a decent argument that next year's NHL season is about developing young talent in the NHL. There is a decent chance that more of our most important young players/prospects will be in the NHL than the AHL next season. I think there is a case to be made that he has earned the chance to develop those guys at the NHL level while earning an NHL paycheck.

He hasn't convinced me that he should be the coach in charge when we are pushing for a Cup, but he has done a decent job convincing me that he is the guy to coach a team that is trying to develop young players without allowing a culture of perpetual losing creep in. I'm warming to the idea of offering him a 1-2 year deal. He will be cheap compared to any 'free agent' coach with pedigree and I wouldn't be mad about ownership saving a bit of money on a coach if the primary goal is development in the short term.
 
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joe galiba

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Those Perunovich stats are also in extremely sheltered minutes. It's easy to have good Corsi when you are put in offensive situations and against the other teams worst players consistently.

He has made a ton of truly awful defensive plays. Both because he is not good physically (poor stick and small) where he just gets out muscled but also because he makes awful decisions.

The first goal against Vegas was 100% his fault. He left good ice to chase a player against the boards after Walker lost balance, and left Faulk to cover the entire slot and crease alone against 2 knights. That is the norm for him, not the exception.

There is a good reason that when the bench gets shortened, he is the one getting pushed off the end.
Walker was at fault for that, not Perunovich, Walker was on the ice, got up and was watching the puck instead of finding his player, the man with the puck was already covered, Perunovich was marking that player from behind the net all the way over to the wall, and his defensive partner had the lone Vegas player in the slot
if anything it was really on the refs, as a clear to see, easy to call trip set up a scoring opportunity, should have been called
 
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Peru is fine. I really don't understand the frustration people have with him. What were people's expectations going into this year? He had all of 25 total NHL games and that was two seasons ago. Has he been sheltered? Yes. But he's also produced fairly well in his role.

At 5v5 he's the top D in terms of Corsi and Fenwick percentage, and he's right below Krug and Faulk (6th best on the team) in xGF%. He's producing the most assists/60 of all our D-core, and he's MILES ahead of anyone on primary assists/60 of our D-core. He has a positive GF/GA differential at 5v5 of +1 and is even overall on the year. Peru is currently making league minimum against the cap.
He's the top D in terms of Corsi and Fenwick. It's still under 50%, and that's being heavily sheltered. He also has the top expected +/-, for what that's worth. He's also got (by far) the highest offensive zone start percentage, for what that's worth.

If you want him for the PP, fine. I don't see him as a difference-maker, the PP has been the same with or without him, but whatever. But I wouldn't tout his advanced stats while he's heavily sheltered as a sign that it's what he'll do when he's not, especially when we can watch him most nights and see his defense even while heavily sheltered is still a struggle.
 

Stupendous Yappi

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Neighbours has played about half of his pro games under Bannister and I think that he has rapidly improved a lot of elements to his game since Bannister took over in the NHL this season. I've been pretty happy with the way a lot of our 2nd tier prospects have come along through the AHL when he was coaching there and I've been impressed at the way many have looked at the NHL level in brief looks this season with him at the helm.

Neighbours is for sure going to continue his development in the NHL next year. I think Kessel will too. Snuggy may or may not develop on the fly in the NHL next season. Same with Bolduc and/or Dean. I'm not sure what the plan will be for Dvorsky next year, but I would guess that Stenberg/Lindstein are going to be in the SHL rather than the AHL.

I think he has a good resume as a development coach and I think there is a decent argument that next year's NHL season is about developing young talent in the NHL. There is a decent chance that more of our most important young players/prospects will be in the NHL than the AHL next season. I think there is a case to be made that he has earned the chance to develop those guys at the NHL level while earning an NHL paycheck.

He hasn't convinced me that he should be the coach in charge when we are pushing for a Cup, but he has done a decent job convincing me that he is the guy to coach a team that is trying to develop young players without allowing a culture of perpetual losing creep in. I'm warming to the idea of offering him a 1-2 year deal. He will be cheap compared to any 'free agent' coach with pedigree and I wouldn't be mad about ownership saving a bit of money on a coach if the primary goal is development in the short term.
If Bannister is largely responsible for Neighbor's growth, that's a pretty compelling argument for keeping him on board to pilot the rebuild and the anticipated influx of young guys. You'd think that is his forte since they had him working in the AHL.
 
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joe galiba

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He's the top D in terms of Corsi and Fenwick. It's still under 50%, and that's being heavily sheltered. He also has the top expected +/-, for what that's worth. He's also got (by far) the highest offensive zone start percentage, for what that's worth.

If you want him for the PP, fine. I don't see him as a difference-maker, the PP has been the same with or without him, but whatever. But I wouldn't tout his advanced stats while he's heavily sheltered as a sign that it's what he'll do when he's not, especially when we can watch him most nights and see his defense even while heavily sheltered is still a struggle.
except your 5/6 D are almost always sheltered either offensively or defensively, it is why they are a 5/6, they have a deficit in part of their game
 
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BlueDream

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Neighbours has played about half of his pro games under Bannister and I think that he has rapidly improved a lot of elements to his game since Bannister took over in the NHL this season. I've been pretty happy with the way a lot of our 2nd tier prospects have come along through the AHL when he was coaching there and I've been impressed at the way many have looked at the NHL level in brief looks this season with him at the helm.

Neighbours is for sure going to continue his development in the NHL next year. I think Kessel will too. Snuggy may or may not develop on the fly in the NHL next season. Same with Bolduc and/or Dean. I'm not sure what the plan will be for Dvorsky next year, but I would guess that Stenberg/Lindstein are going to be in the SHL rather than the AHL.

I think he has a good resume as a development coach and I think there is a decent argument that next year's NHL season is about developing young talent in the NHL. There is a decent chance that more of our most important young players/prospects will be in the NHL than the AHL next season. I think there is a case to be made that he has earned the chance to develop those guys at the NHL level while earning an NHL paycheck.

He hasn't convinced me that he should be the coach in charge when we are pushing for a Cup, but he has done a decent job convincing me that he is the guy to coach a team that is trying to develop young players without allowing a culture of perpetual losing creep in. I'm warming to the idea of offering him a 1-2 year deal. He will be cheap compared to any 'free agent' coach with pedigree and I wouldn't be mad about ownership saving a bit of money on a coach if the primary goal is development in the short term.
Some will probably think I’m being too harsh on Bannister, but I don’t see how he deserves that much credit for Neighbours’ development. Neighbours already had 10 goals this season when Berube was fired. He was already starting to break out, and I absolutely think he would have continued on this same arc under Berube. Chief loved Neighbours, he raved about him every chance he got and continued to play him even when members on this board thought he sucked. It’s not like Neighbours wouldn’t have reached his potential under him.

This “rapid development” you’re talking about is because Neighbours is a 21-year old, former 1st round pick that is going through his natural progression as a player. Of course he’s going to continue getting better at this age, as he gets stronger and more confident in the NHL. It’s not like Drew Bannister unlocked some hidden gem here, so I can’t really buy this as a reason to keep him. I 100% believe there are better candidates out there.

And this isn’t to say that Bannister can’t develop young players btw. I’m fine keeping him as our AHL head coach.
 

Brian39

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Some will probably think I’m being too harsh on Bannister, but I don’t see how he deserves that much credit for Neighbours’ development. Neighbours already had 10 goals this season when Berube was fired. He was already starting to break out, and I absolutely think he would have continued on this same arc under Berube. Chief loved Neighbours, he raved about him every chance he got and continued to play him even when members on this board thought he sucked. It’s not like Neighbours wouldn’t have reached his potential under him.

This “rapid development” you’re talking about is because Neighbours is a 21-year old, former 1st round pick that is going through his natural progression as a player. Of course he’s going to continue getting better at this age, as he gets stronger and more confident in the NHL. It’s not like Drew Bannister unlocked some hidden gem here, so I can’t really buy this as a reason to keep him. I 100% believe there are better candidates out there.

And this isn’t to say that Bannister can’t develop young players btw. I’m fine keeping him as our AHL head coach.
With Neighbours specifically, the development I'm talking about is related to the parts of his game unrelated to burying the puck in the net. In the last couple months his passing and decision-making with the puck has improved a lot. I see him effectively finding/checking his man coming back through the neutral zone more than I used to. It isn't just a given that 21 year olds make noticeable improvements in these areas mid-season while still delivering the 'strong' elements of their game at the NHL level.

I don't mean to say that Bannister came in and saved Neighbours' career trajectory, but no 21 year old late 1st rounder is going to just develop by leaps and bounds no matter who the coach is. I'm not trying to criticize the way Berube handled Neighbours and I don't mean to say that Bannister came in and saved Neighbours' career trajectory.

But I thought Neighbours looked noticeably better after his AHL stint last year and I think he has taken a couple steps to round out some non-shooting elements to his game since Bannister took over. However much credit you want to give each person involved, I think it is at least clear that Bannister is doing well with the kid.
 

BadgersandBlues

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@Majority and Ted - I firmly noted that Peru has been sheltered. The point still stands that for his role, he is producing. At the beginning of the season he was penciled in as an offensive minded bottom pair D-man who can run an NHL Powerplay. He has provided that.

His defensive game is bad. Full stop. I haven't at any time, in any post on this entire board, tried to argue otherwise. But his transition and offensive game looks pretty solid, especially for a guy, again, making league minimum. I could understand the hand-wringing if he was a 4M+ dollar player, but he's making 775k. If he's frustrating, I understand. What I don't get is all the vitriol towards him. This team has a f***ton of problems before we get anywhere near Peru.
 

Celtic Note

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With Neighbours specifically, the development I'm talking about is related to the parts of his game unrelated to burying the puck in the net. In the last couple months his passing and decision-making with the puck has improved a lot. I see him effectively finding/checking his man coming back through the neutral zone more than I used to. It isn't just a given that 21 year olds make noticeable improvements in these areas mid-season while still delivering the 'strong' elements of their game at the NHL level.

I don't mean to say that Bannister came in and saved Neighbours' career trajectory, but no 21 year old late 1st rounder is going to just develop by leaps and bounds no matter who the coach is. I'm not trying to criticize the way Berube handled Neighbours and I don't mean to say that Bannister came in and saved Neighbours' career trajectory.

But I thought Neighbours looked noticeably better after his AHL stint last year and I think he has taken a couple steps to round out some non-shooting elements to his game since Bannister took over. However much credit you want to give each person involved, I think it is at least clear that Bannister is doing well with the kid.
Most of the problems that were glaring at me since Neighbours turned pro have abated since after the coaching change. Maybe it’s coincidence, but it definitely changed after that point. Bannister may be the reason. It seems more likely that it was more him than Berube, but I would place the most credit on Neighbours. Maybe things just started clicking. Hard to say. But I would lean more towards Bannister over Berube if I had to guess.
 

Majorityof1

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Walker was at fault for that, not Perunovich, Walker was on the ice, got up and was watching the puck instead of finding his player, the man with the puck was already covered, Perunovich was marking that player from behind the net all the way over to the wall, and his defensive partner had the lone Vegas player in the slot
if anything it was really on the refs, as a clear to see, easy to call trip set up a scoring opportunity, should have been called

Agree to disagree. I guess it comes down to how you assign blame. Walker falling was the inciting incident. But that did not create a good scoring chance. At that point, the player with the puck had his back turned to the goal, was, at or below the dot, and was up against the boards. There is no play there where that player can get a high percentage shot off before Walker gets up or Buchnevich collapses from a much less dangerous spot. Walker falling increased the danger of a goal by 1%. Walker was up on his feet before Perunovih got to the puck carrier.

Perunovich's mistake increased the danger of a goal tremendously. Suddenly there are 2 Vegas players in prime scoring areas that Perunovich abandoned and only Faulk left to cover them both. That is an extremely dangerous play. It does not happen if Perunovich continues to defend good ice rather than giving it up to contest a non-loose puck in bad ice. The only option fro the puck carrier with Buchnevich high, and Walker getting back up, and his position with the puck, would be too pass the puck down low along the boards. Perunovich left that guy wide open for an easy cut to the net. Further, even if you think Perunovich should have charged onto bad ice, he pulled up short and did nothing to disrupt the puck carrier. He didn't hit him, he didn't try to use his stick. He just ran up and stopped 3 inches from him. Meanwhile the puck is gone, and Faulk is defeending two people in prime real estate.
 
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Majorityof1

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@Majority and Ted - I firmly noted that Peru has been sheltered. The point still stands that for his role, he is producing. At the beginning of the season he was penciled in as an offensive minded bottom pair D-man who can run an NHL Powerplay. He has provided that.

His defensive game is bad. Full stop. I haven't at any time, in any post on this entire board, tried to argue otherwise. But his transition and offensive game looks pretty solid, especially for a guy, again, making league minimum. I could understand the hand-wringing if he was a 4M+ dollar player, but he's making 775k. If he's frustrating, I understand. What I don't get is all the vitriol towards him. This team has a f***ton of problems before we get anywhere near Peru.

Fair enough. I agree with your second paragraph to some extent. I just don't like that role. I have gone on in detail that PP QBs who cannot defend are not worth it. A PP is already a good chance to score, even wthout a rockstar PPQB. The increased percentage chance of scoring with Peru over Faulk does not justify having Peru on the team given how little PP time there is. Neighbours is arguably far more important to our PP's improvement with his net front precense than any of our D. 5v5 Calle Rosen is only a .1 point/60 behind Perunovich with a whole lot less sheltering, so its not like he is bringing much at 5v5 either.
 
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His defensive game is bad. Full stop. I haven't at any time, in any post on this entire board, tried to argue otherwise. But his transition and offensive game looks pretty solid, especially for a guy, again, making league minimum.
This is the crux of the pro-Perunovich argument: well yeah, he's shit defensively even when he's sheltered - but it's only at a cost of league minimum, and look at that offense!

And I'm not going to rehash my longstanding points - I'll let experience be the teacher here - but for a team where the structure is based on good defensive hockey, to have someone whose defense is poor even at league minimum seems like a bad idea when his offense doesn't even kind of make up for it.
 

LGB

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I think Perunovich is good. Sure he's not a defensive stopper, but I really don't think his defensive game is as tragic as it's made out to be. On the other side I think he is the best puck mover in our defensive corps. He's had the misfortune of being stapled to the shell of a player that is Marco Scandella for most of the season, but he and Faulk are now up to 122 minutes together and have the highest xGF% of any Blues pairing by a country mile.
 
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Bye Bye Blueston

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Neighbours has played about half of his pro games under Bannister and I think that he has rapidly improved a lot of elements to his game since Bannister took over in the NHL this season. I've been pretty happy with the way a lot of our 2nd tier prospects have come along through the AHL when he was coaching there and I've been impressed at the way many have looked at the NHL level in brief looks this season with him at the helm.

Neighbours is for sure going to continue his development in the NHL next year. I think Kessel will too. Snuggy may or may not develop on the fly in the NHL next season. Same with Bolduc and/or Dean. I'm not sure what the plan will be for Dvorsky next year, but I would guess that Stenberg/Lindstein are going to be in the SHL rather than the AHL.

I think he has a good resume as a development coach and I think there is a decent argument that next year's NHL season is about developing young talent in the NHL. There is a decent chance that more of our most important young players/prospects will be in the NHL than the AHL next season. I think there is a case to be made that he has earned the chance to develop those guys at the NHL level while earning an NHL paycheck.

He hasn't convinced me that he should be the coach in charge when we are pushing for a Cup, but he has done a decent job convincing me that he is the guy to coach a team that is trying to develop young players without allowing a culture of perpetual losing creep in. I'm warming to the idea of offering him a 1-2 year deal. He will be cheap compared to any 'free agent' coach with pedigree and I wouldn't be mad about ownership saving a bit of money on a coach if the primary goal is development in the short term.
I largely agree. Bannister has generally done I think strong job of doing what we asked of him- helping develop young players and getting more consistent effort out of the team. We had become too inconsistent under Berube towards the end (basically what Army said explaining the move), and Bannister has maybe not delivered the highs but it seems we have had less of the lows.

I like how Bannister is holding guys accountable, sitting players who he feels merit it and hasn't been shy about calling players out in a way that Berube rarely did. He seems so calm and soft spoken we sometimes miss that he is tough. Now I don't see much signs of strategic genius or an inspiring leader, but I don't see our next coach as the guy who is going to get us over the top. The next coach is our Andy Murray, helping grow the young players and keeping team competitive through the process. And Bannister may well be that guy.
 
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