2023-2024 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[Damian Frerker]

I think we have eight players that have won a Stanley Cup. i just think snuggs and davorsky would be an upgrade over kap and Hayes. What more do they have to prove in their own leagues? There’s plenty of veteran support. This is nowhere near buffalos model. we shall see. CHEERS

 

[Xerloris]

if they're not better than Kap and Hayes we're in deep shit.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

I think we have eight players that have won a Stanley Cup. i just think snuggs and davorsky would be an upgrade over kap and Hayes. What more do they have to prove in their own leagues? There’s plenty of veteran support. This is nowhere near buffalos model. we shall see. CHEERS

Just because there's nothing left in college or junior leagues for them, doesn't mean throw them to the wolves in the NHL. Sure, if they come into camp and blow the doors off, by all means.

And who cares if they might be better than Hayes/Kapanen currently? We're wanting them to be significantly better than those two in the future because they have the potential to be, and if the best course for that is to have them develop in the AHL, then so be it.

Also, it's Dvorsky, not Davorsky

 

[Damian Frerker]

ooooops

 

[Brian39]

I think we have eight players that have won a Stanley Cup. i just think snuggs and davorsky would be an upgrade over kap and Hayes. What more do they have to prove in their own leagues? There’s plenty of veteran support. This is nowhere near buffalos model. we shall see. CHEERS

To add on to (or further clarify) what @Davimir Tarablad posted, both of those players are eligible to play in the AHL next season. We aren't in a position where we have to make that 'NHL or junior' choice that you have to make with a prospect that you draft out of the CHL. If they aren't truly ready for the NHL, we have the ability to send them to a very, very good pro development league instead of them spending the year in a league that they have outgrown.

 

[PocketNines]

He is essentially this core's Petro. His performance is why I'm still pretty optimistic for our future. Regardless of Petro's partner, we had a really good top pair. Regardless of how the other forwards develop, we'll likely always have a really good 1st line led by Thomas. Getting a building block at C or D is critical for building a squad.

I do not agree with your last sentence. Having a building block for 1C means you can be exactly as crappy as this current team is, there is absolutely no feeling of a floor, and they can be bad for years like this. A 1C thus is not sufficient.

However, has that ever happened when the Blues had a true 1D? No, they were almost always a playoff team and frequently a contender.

One part of this is math and ice time and impact, and one part of this is the structure and design of the game itself. If teams iced 12F and 12D then I would agree with you but they do not.

 

[PocketNines]

The emergence of Thomas as a pillar, however, deserves some talking about. It appears to be rock solid and should provide an anchor for sorting out the offense over the next two seasons. By sorting out I mean get a much better idea about what kind of talent impact is about to hit with the recent forward bounty. Obviously Dvorsky is a linchpin in this notion but I think a reasonably confident one to have.

We have been wondering how are we going to get that 20, 21 year old blossoming #1 D. If that landed into the current setup 12-24 months from now I can see a new window emerging.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I do not agree with your last sentence. Having a building block for 1C means you can be exactly as crappy as this current team is, there is absolutely no feeling of a floor, and they can be bad for years like this. A 1C thus is not sufficient.

However, has that ever happened when the Blues had a true 1D? No, they were almost always a playoff team and frequently a contender.

One part of this is math and ice time and impact, and one part of this is the structure and design of the game itself. If teams iced 12F and 12D then I would agree with you but they do not.

I never said simply having a 1C or 1D makes you a playoff team and frequent contender. Plenty of really shitty teams have a 1C or a 1D and are a complete disaster. You need a complete squad to be an always playoff team and frequent contender. And to be a true contender, you need both pieces.

 

[PocketNines]

I never said simply having a 1C or 1D makes you a playoff team and frequent contender. Plenty of really shitty teams have a 1C or a 1D and are a complete disaster. You need a complete squad to be an always playoff team and frequent contender. And to be a true contender, you need both pieces.

Fair enough. I read it as you need one or the other to build around and I think it does make a difference which one it is that's the more important piece.

I've had to debate the idea here plenty they are equal versus one is more a priority than the other

 

[bleedblue1223]

Fair enough. I read it as you need one or the other to build around and I think it does make a difference which one it is that's the more important piece.

I've had to debate the idea here plenty they are equal versus one is more a priority than the other

My view is that whether they are same value or different, it really doesn't matter. To be a real contender again, we need a 1C, 1D, and a goalie capable of stealing a series. Whatever the order is, I'm happy Thomas looks like someone that we can check one of those boxes off. Binnington/Hofer this season checks off the goalie box, but goalies are weird and can change year to year, so we have to see how consistent they are. Defense is going to be the big challenge.

And while building the depth around that group is still somewhat difficult, I'm not too worried about being about to build out the other lines and pairs.

 

[PocketNines]

My view is that whether they are same value or different, it really doesn't matter. To be a real contender again, we need a 1C, 1D, and a goalie capable of stealing a series. Whatever the order is, I'm happy Thomas looks like someone that we can check one of those boxes off. Binnington/Hofer this season checks off the goalie box, but goalies are weird and can change year to year, so we have to see how consistent they are. Defense is going to be the big challenge.

And while building the depth around that group is still somewhat difficult, I'm not too worried about being about to build out the other lines and pairs.

I feel like it's easier to cobble 12 forwards together with a 1C who is less than the league's elite than it is to build out pairs if your defense is all shifting sands of inconsistency. Without a 1D you might not realize you have the right 2-4D to support a 1D, then you lose some of those players or force them to play one or two notches above their limit and they get exposed quickly and are thought to be bad.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I just realized we would be 2nd WC in the East (or 3rd in the Metro) we are also ranked 15th in the entire league in points.

 

[Brian39]

I just realized we would be 2nd WC in the East (or 3rd in the Metro) we are also ranked 15th in the entire league in points.

It really is a bummer that we couldn't pop another goal in the 3rd against Vegas. We had Thompson beat a couple times plus there was a scramble in front with a quick whistle that very well could have led to a goal if the ref didn't lose sight of the puck. That game was right there for the taking in regulation thanks to Binner.

We'd be just 3 points back from them right now and they have a noticeably tougher schedule in the last 9 games.

We're not going to slide way further down the standings at this point (we're 5 points up on the 13th overall pick and 9 points up on 10th overall), so a real playoff race would have at least been fun. As is, we'd need one of Vegas, LA, or Nashville to really implode just to make things interesting.

 

[Frenzy31]

Here is a question: do you view CP as a legit #1 dman? This year I have started to see him as a #1.

I agree we need to up grade our LHD. But another hole time right now is a complete lack of a second line. We have 4 top 6 forwards…. And two lines worth of 4th liners.

 

[BlueDream]

Here is a question: do you view CP as a legit #1 dman? This year I have started to see him as a #1.

I agree we need to up grade our LHD. But another hole time right now is a complete lack of a second line. We have 4 top 6 forwards…. And two lines worth of 4th liners.

We don’t have two 4th lines. That is an overreaction.

 

[Ranksu]

We don’t have two 4th lines. That is an overreaction.

Whatta hell we have then? Sure not Toto, Bolduc or Hayes arent top6 forwards.

 

[BlueDream]

Whatta hell we have then? Sure not Toto, Bolduc or Hayes arent top6 forwards.

3rd lines exist. Schenn, Saad and Hayes are completely fine top 9 forwards. If we want to play them all together next season, that may be a decent veteran 3rd line.

If we keep Buch, then him, Thomas, Kyrou and Neighbours are top 6 forwards. We need a 2nd line center to complement those guys.

After that, we may just have to hope that one of Bolduc or Snuggerud grabs the last remaining spot, which I think is possible.

People act like we need to go out and acquire two full lines worth of new forwards. We really only need one new guy (a center), and then hope one prospect comes through for us. That’s not that dire or unrealistic.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

3rd lines exist. Schenn, Saad and Hayes are completely fine top 9 forwards. If we want to play them all together next season, that may be a decent veteran 3rd line.

If we keep Buch, then him, Thomas, Kyrou and Neighbours are top 6 forwards. We need a 2nd line center to complement those guys.

After that, we may just have to hope that one of Bolduc or Snuggerud grabs the last remaining spot, which I think is possible.

People act like we need to go out and acquire two full lines worth of new forwards. We really only need one new guy (a center), and then hope one prospect comes through for us. That’s not that dire or unrealistic.

Agreed with this.

Saad-Hayes-Schenn is a completely adequate 3rd line. The issue is finding a 2C. And hoping one of the Kids can play on the 2nd or 1st line and Move around Buch, Kyrou, and Neighbours in that top 6. And with us having 12 mil in cap this offseason a 2nd line C really isn't that crazy of a buy. Just gotta find someone that fits stylistically with 1 or two of those wingers.

 

[BlueDream]

Agreed with this.

Saad-Hayes-Schenn is a completely adequate 3rd line. The issue is finding a 2C. And hoping one of the Kids can play on the 2nd or 1st line and Move around Buch, Kyrou, and Neighbours in that top 6. And with us having 12 mil in cap this offseason a 2nd line C really isn't that crazy of a buy. Just gotta find someone that fits stylistically with 1 or two of those wingers.

Yep. The play lately of Saad and Schenn has made me feel better. They have gas left in the tank as complementary wingers that can play 3rd line and move up to the 2nd line in a pinch too. And they seem to have chemistry with each other.

Hayes does some good things. He wins faceoffs and is good at protecting the puck. I’m hoping a line of him, Saad and Schenn could use their size to cycle the puck in the o-zone and generate possession time. They’ll be decent enough defensively but I think them playing a cycle game and scoring some goals around the net could be doable. Maybe kind of similar to the Maroon-Bozak-Thomas line from 2019, I’d really love to have a line that can get back to cycling the puck and tiring out opposing defenses that way.

Due to Sunny’s injury, I’m not sure how he’ll look next season so we may need a 4th line center to rotate with him and play with Toro and Walker, but I’m fine with that 4th line and finding a depth guy to help out there shouldn’t be too difficult. Dean may also be able to help out as a 4th line option too next season.

As a general overview:

Buch - Thomas - Kyrou
Neighbours - 2C - Bolduc/Snuggerud
Saad - Hayes - Schenn
Walker/Dean - FA/Sunny - Toropchenko

Not bad. We can do a lot of mixing and matching too, like flipping Neighbours and Buch to balance the lines. Or even switching Kyrou with Snuggerud if we want to get a look at Snuggy with Thomas for example. Or drop a rookie to the 3rd line in favor of Schenn for a bit. I don’t hate those possibilities.

2C options in free agency: Monahan, Domi, Roslovic, Stephenson, Lindholm. I haven’t yet checked potential trade targets - I’ll do that in the offseason. But moves are possible to become a playoff team next year.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Yep. The play lately of Saad and Schenn has made me feel better. They have gas left in the tank as complementary wingers that can play 3rd line and move up to the 2nd line in a pinch too. And they seem to have chemistry with each other.

Hayes does some good things. He wins faceoffs and is good at protecting the puck. I’m hoping a line of him, Saad and Schenn could use their size to cycle the puck in the o-zone and generate possession time. They’ll be decent enough defensively but I think them playing a cycle game and scoring some goals around the net could be doable. Maybe kind of similar to the Maroon-Bozak-Thomas line from 2019, I’d really love to have a line that can get back to cycling the puck and tiring out opposing defenses that way.

Due to Sunny’s injury, I’m not sure how he’ll look next season so we may need a 4th line center to rotate with him and play with Toro and Walker, but I’m fine with that 4th line and finding a depth guy to help out there shouldn’t be too difficult. Dean may also be able to help out as a 4th line option too next season.

As a general overview:

Buch - Thomas - Kyrou
Neighbours - 2C - Bolduc/Snuggerud
Saad - Hayes - Schenn
Walker/Dean - FA/Sunny - Toropchenko

Not bad. We can do a lot of mixing and matching too, like flipping Neighbours and Buch to balance the lines. Or even switching Kyrou with Snuggerud if we want to get a look at Snuggy with Thomas for example. Or drop a rookie to the 3rd line in favor of Schenn for a bit. I don’t hate those possibilities.

2C options in free agency: Monahan, Domi, Roslovic, Stephenson, Lindholm. I haven’t yet checked potential trade targets - I’ll do that in the offseason. But moves are possible to become a playoff team next year.

Then it also allows for the players to easily be moved out when the younger players show they are ready. Like, for example, when Dvorsky is ready for the NHL we can move Hayes out and Slot Dvorsky between Saad and Schenn.

We are surprisingly in a pretty good spot for the middle 6 For the young guys to progress and when they start being actual NHLers and when the vets contracts (Saad and Hayes) end.

 

[Majorityof1]

Here is a question: do you view CP as a legit #1 dman? This year I have started to see him as a #1.

I agree we need to up grade our LHD. But another hole time right now is a complete lack of a second line. We have 4 top 6 forwards…. And two lines worth of 4th liners.

Depends on what you mean. A #1 D who can carry a pair on a contender. No. Not close, and I love Parayko. There are too many holes in his game in terms of passivity and passing in transition.

A 1D in terms of a top 32 D in the league, yes. If we are doing a league wide redraft where we pick 1 position each round for one season with no cap, I'll happily take Parayko 25-32. But I really hope it's a snake draft so I get a guy who is in the next group of 10. That's what we are missing is the strong #2 to compliment a relatively weaker #1.

 

[Damian Frerker]

what do you think Snuggs would do if the blues say “ we want to sign you but there’s a possibility you might spend some time in the AHL” does he go back to school or sign? who is a 2 nd line center that would sign a 1-2 yr contract giving Dvorsky time to develop if needed? Cheers

 

[Brian39]

2C options in free agency: Monahan, Domi, Roslovic, Stephenson, Lindholm. I haven’t yet checked potential trade targets - I’ll do that in the offseason. But moves are possible to become a playoff team next year.

I've mentioned this before, but a trade option that makes a lot of sense to me is Wild Bill Karlsson out of Vegas.

$5.9M cap hit for 3 more seasons (his age 32, 33, and 34) with a 10 team no trade list that plausible may not include us. He's scoring at a 33 goal and 68 point pace this year after a down year in 2022/23 where he had 14 goals and 53 points after in 3rd line and 2nd PP usage. He's always been strong defensively too.

After getting Hertl (and reportedly looking to extend Hanifin), he seems like a luxury they won't be able to afford after this season and if they are willing to spend that type of money on a 3C then I assume that they would try to sign Stephensson to since he is younger and preferred by their coach. They have a track record of moving higher-priced guys for free/cheap when the opportunity arises in order to free up cap space.

I think his age, contract, and the Vegas depth chart makes him a guy that is pretty likely to get moved for cheap at the draft. The contract is 1 year more than I'd like, but everything else fits our timeline pretty well and I think most UFA options will be pushing for 4+ years and/or a higher AAV.

 

[Brian39]

what do you think Snuggs would do if the blues say “ we want to sign you but there’s a possibility you might spend some time in the AHL” does he go back to school or sign? who is a 2 nd line center that would sign a 1-2 yr contract giving Dvorsky time to develop if needed? Cheers

In that situation, he should demand the max signing bonus, near the max of potential performance bonuses, and for the contract to begin immediately so he burns this year off his ELC.

That would put a $97,500 bonus into his bank account this month, 1-3 weeks of salary into his pocket in April and then get him another $97,500 on July 1st before he has to 'settle' for an AHL salary next year. It also gets him to RFA status (and likely his first big raise) in the summer of 2026. If he goes back to school another year, he would hit RFA in either the summer of 2027 or 2028 (depending on when he signs after next year).

The AHL is a better league than the NCAA by a pretty wide margin and would very, very likely be better for his development. It also allows him to make a couple hundred thousand dollars in the next 3 months. I'm sure he is having a great time in Minnesota, but it really doesn't make sense to go back there even if he isn't guaranteed an NHL job.

 

[Ranksu]

Agreed with this.

Saad-Hayes-Schenn is a completely adequate 3rd line. The issue is finding a 2C. And hoping one of the Kids can play on the 2nd or 1st line and Move around Buch, Kyrou, and Neighbours in that top 6. And with us having 12 mil in cap this offseason a 2nd line C really isn't that crazy of a buy. Just gotta find someone that fits stylistically with 1 or two of those wingers.

They are fine.

I didn't say we need to acquire anything. This team is just bad, fixing forwards group doesnt make us contender.

Our d-core is abysmal. Faulk and Krug need to go. We miss true 1 LHD.

We need to hope we get lucky at draft and get LHD Pietro.