2023-2024 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[Louie the Blue]

With the signing of Sunny, we should have all the pieces in place. Here is how I see the training camp battles breaking down..

A Wings - Thomas - A Wings
A wings - Schenn - A Wings
A Wings - Hayes - B wings
B Wings - 4Cs - B wings
Toropchenko

Leddy - Parayko
Krug - Faulk
Scandella - 3Ds
3Ds, 3DS

A wings - Kyrou, Buchnevich, Saad, Vrana, and Kapanen, They aren't fighting for positions. But they could end up matched with any # of combinations based on how we want to deploy the lines. Do we put Saad and Buchnevich with Schenn for a shutdown line with scoring punch? Or do we balance them out and put Saad with Vrana and Buch with Kyrou?

B wings - Blais, Sunny, Neigbours, Bolduc - They will be fighting for the 3rd line wing spot. Bolduc will go down to the A if he doesn't win it. The other 2 will be the 4th line wings.

4Cs- Dean or Aleadnrov - Alexandrov has the inside track, but Dean will get a chance. Whoever misses out will go to the A.

3Ds - Bortuzzo, Rosen, Perunovich and Tucker. I think whoever wins the opening roster, we will rotate all of them in. This is more for who loses and goes to Springfield. I wouldn't be that surprised if it is Bortuzzo, but Rosen or Perunovich might be the most likely.

Toropchenko - I think he will get subbed in frequently even without injuries to add an element of speed or physicality as needed. But I think the other players are just better personally.

With all that said, I see it shaking out for game 1 like:

Buchnevich - Thomas - Kyrou
Saad - Scheen - Vrana
Blais - Hayes - Kapanen
Niehgbours - Alexandrov - Sunny

Leddy- Parayko
Krug - Faulk
Scandella - Tucker

Press Box: Perunovich, Bortz, Torop

What do you all think are the training camp battles? Who has the edge?

I find it very unlikely that Dean makes the team going into the season barring injuries to someone on the fourth line or one of the defensemen.

I think Bortuzzo has the inside track being the bottom pair RD, though he is not my preference. I envision they'll pair him with Krug and move Scandella to be with Faulk. One of Tucker or Perunovich will start in the AHL while Rosen stays to either rotate in or be in the box. IMO, I'd like to see him play more as his offensive metrics are surprisingly good.

Torop probably plays more than Sunny does, who I view as being interchangeable with Alexandrov.

As for pairings, I think you've pretty much nailed the bottom 6 and its composition for the most part. Top 6 I could see fluctuating based on the situation. Buchnevich moving down to the second line to form more of a shutdown line with Vrana moving up to form an offensive-focused line wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Reality Czech]

I was hoping for Tomas Nosek as the 4C but I think Sunny is penciled into that spot now.

Love Sunny but I prefer him on wing these days. Career 43% at faceoffs and averaged less than 1 faceoff per game last season. I guess we’ll see how it goes but I wouldn’t be surprised if Sunny is moved to wing and the 4C position is upgraded at some point.

How I see it for now though:

Buchy-Thomas-Kyrou
Saad-Hayes-Kapanen
Vrana-Schenn-Blais
Neighbours-Sunny-Toro
Alexandrov
MacMac

I could see Sunny and Alexandrov taking turns at 4C or more likely someone will get injured early on and both will be in. There are a ton of possibilities with our lineup. To me the main questions is do we keep Kyrou and Thomas together or split them up? I've always liked Kyrou with Schenn and I think Thomas would get the most out of Vrana's shot. I'd go with one of these lineups:

Vrana Thomas Buch
Saad Schenn Kyrou
Kap Hayes Blais
Neighbours Alexandrov Sunny

Saad Thomas Kyrou
Vrana Schenn Buch
same
same

I'd rather not stack the top line with Thomas, Kyrou and Buch and spread our top guys out a bit. Obviously Kyrou and Vrana would be a defensive nightmare so they have to be split up. I could even see Neighbours or Blais in a top 6 role if they wanna balance the top 3 lines. I'd go the balanced route because our middle six would be weak if we don't.

 

[Reality Czech]

Theoretically, yes. But is that goalie available to sign though? Nosek is just sitting there.

Also, Subban somewhat provides that competition/backup plan.

Don't most teams have at least 3 NHL capable goalies these days? We need a veteran insurance policy in case Binner or Hofer get hurt. Not sure Zherenko is ready for that just yet so having a veteran NHL/AHL tweener makes sense.

 

[Majorityof1]

I find it very unlikely that Dean makes the team going into the season barring injuries to someone on the fourth line or one of the defensemen.

I think Bortuzzo has the inside track being the bottom pair RD, though he is not my preference. I envision they'll pair him with Krug and move Scandella to be with Faulk. One of Tucker or Perunovich will start in the AHL while Rosen stays to either rotate in or be in the box. IMO, I'd like to see him play more as his offensive metrics are surprisingly good.

Torop probably plays more than Sunny does, who I view as being interchangeable with Alexandrov.

As for pairings, I think you've pretty much nailed the bottom 6 and its composition for the most part. Top 6 I could see fluctuating based on the situation. Buchnevich moving down to the second line to form more of a shutdown line with Vrana moving up to form an offensive-focused line wouldn't surprise me at all.

I too think it is unlikely that Dean makes the team. But he is a highly rated prospect. They are going to dangle that carrot in front of him and give him the chance if he grabs it with both hands. Unlikely? Yes. Possible?.....maybe.

Normally I would say Bortz has the inside track. But they spoke highly of Tucker and their plans for him this year. Bortuzzo's usage has gone down a lot recently. I think they want to get the young guy some reps, and he is the one who will lose the ice time for that.

I just don't like Toropchenko. I don't think he's good, and had a bit of a up year with scoring last year that will regress. I do think he will get a lot of games. With injuries and just cycling guys in for a different look, I expect Sunny, Blias, Neighbours, Alexandrov and Torop all get around 55-70 games. But I hope opening day, its Toropchenko in the press box.

 

[Louie the Blue]

I too think it is unlikely that Dean makes the team. But he is a highly rated prospect. They are going to dangle that carrot in front of him and give him the chance if he grabs it with both hands. Unlikely? Yes. Possible?.....maybe.

Normally I would say Bortz has the inside track. But they spoke highly of Tucker and their plans for him this year. Bortuzzo's usage has gone down a lot recently. I think they want to get the young guy some reps, and he is the one who will lose the ice time for that.

I just don't like Toropchenko. I don't think he's good, and had a bit of a up year with scoring last year that will regress. I do think he will get a lot of games. With injuries and just cycling guys in for a different look, I expect Sunny, Blias, Neighbours, Alexandrov and Torop all get around 55-70 games. But I hope opening day, its Toropchenko in the press box.

I'd personally waive Bortuzzo if it was up to me, but they won't. I want Tucker to get meaningful playing time. I think he's much closer to being a consistent contributor full-time than Perunovich is.

With how you view the bottom 6 or so, I'd agree. No one's going to be slated to play every night aside from Hayes and Kapanen. Natural attrition will likely take its toll.

 

[Celtic Note]

Is anyone else beside me hoping that Buch transitions to center and Schenn moves to wing full time?

It would be nice to have at least one center who is good defensively.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Is anyone else beside me hoping that Buch transitions to center and Schenn moves to wing full time?

It would be nice to have at least one center who is good defensively.

I'd rather not try to transition two players to different positions at the ages of 28 and 31

 

[Celtic Note]

I'd rather not try to transition two players to different positions at the ages of 28 and 31

Schenn has played wing, so it’s not new for him. Buch looked pretty good at center despite so few game played there.

 

[joe galiba]

I thought I read somewhere that Buch Thomas Kyrou were very good together 5v5
so I think that is where to start

 

[Xerloris]

God I hope Subban never sees the NHL while with the Blues. Nothing against him in particular but f*** both of his brothers.

 

[BlueDream]

I’d prefer to ice a better team than basically gift a spot to a prospect. I’d prefer Alexandrov to earn a spot and force his way onto the lineup than for him to be the default and he’d have to be horrible to lose it.

Why? We aren’t contending for a Cup, we are retooling. Giving young players ice time is exactly what we should be doing so that we can be better in the future and they can get up to speed quicker.

We have to give Alexandrov a spot, otherwise we could lose him on waivers. So if he’s going to be on the roster, you’re cool with just stashing him in the press box in favor of some 31 year old veteran that will make our mediocre team 2% better? You’re way overrating Nosek if you think he moves the needle and would make all that much of a difference. Doug Armstrong even said as much, you have to create room to give younger players opportunity, that’s why you see veterans moved out via trade. You can’t just block them and tell them all the time to “force themselves on the roster”, which doesn’t make sense for Alexandrov’s situation.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Why? We aren’t contending for a Cup, we are retooling. Giving young players ice time is exactly what we should be doing so that we can be better in the future and they can get up to speed quicker.

We have to give Alexandrov a spot, otherwise we could lose him on waivers. So if he’s going to be on the roster, you’re cool with just stashing him in the press box in favor of some 31 year old veteran that will make our mediocre team 2% better? You’re way overrating Nosek if you think he moves the needle and would make all that much of a difference. Doug Armstrong even said as much, you have to create room to give younger players opportunity, that’s why you see veterans moved out via trade. You can’t just block them and tell them all the time to “force themselves on the roster”, which doesn’t make sense for Alexandrov’s situation.

If Nosek’s really that overrated then Alexandrov should be able to beat him out for a spot.

You make a fair point but what has Alexandrov shown to be handed the 4C role? He won 35% of his faceoffs last season. He’s going to have to get better at that specific aspect of the game for Chief to want to put him in the lineup.

Even if Alexandrov does start the season as a spare forward, there’s always injuries and opportunities to grab ice time.

 

[The Note]

How do you define deep? Because I think the West is pretty wide open. More specifically, I think the Central is hot garbage. I could see a C3 or Wild Card team getting to the Conference Final simply from their goalie stealing 2 games against a good team and then beating an okay team. Binner stealing a couple from a good team and then us getting a team win against a team like Nashville or Minnesota wouldn't surprise me. I wouldn't bet on it, but I wouldn't be surprised by it.

Deep to me means conference final. I guess when you lay it out like that, the badness of the conference and division works doubly in their favor. I would still be quite surprised if this group is in the conference finals.

 

[Brian39]

With the signing of Sunny, we should have all the pieces in place. Here is how I see the training camp battles breaking down..

A Wings - Thomas - A Wings
A wings - Schenn - A Wings
A Wings - Hayes - B wings
B Wings - 4Cs - B wings
Toropchenko

Leddy - Parayko
Krug - Faulk
Scandella - 3Ds
3Ds, 3DS

A wings - Kyrou, Buchnevich, Saad, Vrana, and Kapanen, They aren't fighting for positions. But they could end up matched with any # of combinations based on how we want to deploy the lines. Do we put Saad and Buchnevich with Schenn for a shutdown line with scoring punch? Or do we balance them out and put Saad with Vrana and Buch with Kyrou?

B wings - Blais, Sunny, Neigbours, Bolduc - They will be fighting for the 3rd line wing spot. Bolduc will go down to the A if he doesn't win it. The other 2 will be the 4th line wings.

4Cs- Dean or Aleadnrov - Alexandrov has the inside track, but Dean will get a chance. Whoever misses out will go to the A.

3Ds - Bortuzzo, Rosen, Perunovich and Tucker. I think whoever wins the opening roster, we will rotate all of them in. This is more for who loses and goes to Springfield. I wouldn't be that surprised if it is Bortuzzo, but Rosen or Perunovich might be the most likely.

Toropchenko - I think he will get subbed in frequently even without injuries to add an element of speed or physicality as needed. But I think the other players are just better personally.

With all that said, I see it shaking out for game 1 like:

Buchnevich - Thomas - Kyrou
Saad - Scheen - Vrana
Blais - Hayes - Kapanen
Niehgbours - Alexandrov - Sunny

Leddy- Parayko
Krug - Faulk
Scandella - Tucker

Press Box: Perunovich, Bortz, Torop

What do you all think are the training camp battles? Who has the edge?

I agree with a ton of this. I do have some small disagreements.

I don't think the D pairs are set at all. Faulk and Scandella got 190 minutes together at 5 on 5 over the 20 games Scandella played last year. It was in extreme defensive usage and while the underlying numbers weren't good, they had a +3 goal differential. I wouldn't be surprised to see the new D coach try them as a pair that requires less sheltering than Krug/Faulk to take some pressure off Leddy/Parayko. I also wouldn't be surprised if they give a long look at Leddy/Faulk in deployment similar to what Krug/Faulk got this year with Scandella/Parayko handling the D load. Or trying Leddy/Faulk in balanced usage with Krug/Parayko in balanced usage.

With a new D coach and the spectacular failure of the D group last year, I don't see any reason that we should be married to the pairs that didn't work. Assuming no pre-camp trade, I have the camp battle breaking down like this:

A LD-Parayko
A LD-Faulk
A LD-3D
3D, 3D

A LDs: Leddy, Krug, Scandella

3Ds: Tucker, Bortz, Rosen, Perunovich

As to Dean and Bolduc, I don't think they are on level playing field to earn NHL jobs. I think they start camp penciled into the AHL and need to show something at camp just to actually get into the battle for an NHL job. I think Blais, Neighbours, and Sunny are being told "force me to put you on the 3rd line instead of the 4th line" while the two rookies will be told "force me to consider waiving a guy instead of starting you in the AHL."

Finally, I don't think Alexandrov goes to the A. That would be better for his development than sitting in the press box for a while, but losing him on waivers is a much worse outcome for the Blues than having him sit in the press box. You just can't risk losing him on waivers because Dean has a better camp just to see Dean hit a rookie wall 3 weeks into the season when the veterans around the league start rounding into mid-season form.

 

[Xerloris]

I agree with a ton of this. I do have some small disagreements.

I don't think the D pairs are set at all. Faulk and Scandella got 190 minutes together at 5 on 5 over the 20 games Scandella played last year. It was in extreme defensive usage and while the underlying numbers weren't good, they had a +3 goal differential. I wouldn't be surprised to see the new D coach try them as a pair that requires less sheltering than Krug/Faulk to take some pressure off Leddy/Parayko. I also wouldn't be surprised if they give a long look at Leddy/Faulk in deployment similar to what Krug/Faulk got this year with Scandella/Parayko handling the D load. Or trying Leddy/Faulk in balanced usage with Krug/Parayko in balanced usage.

With a new D coach and the spectacular failure of the D group last year, I don't see any reason that we should be married to the pairs that didn't work. Assuming no pre-camp trade, I have the camp battle breaking down like this:

A LD-Parayko
A LD-Faulk
A LD-3D
3D, 3D

A LDs: Leddy, Krug, Scandella

3Ds: Tucker, Bortz, Rosen, Perunovich

As to Dean and Bolduc, I don't think they are on level playing field to earn NHL jobs. I think they start camp penciled into the AHL and need to show something at camp just to actually get into the battle for an NHL job. I think Blais, Neighbours, and Sunny are being told "force me to put you on the 3rd line instead of the 4th line" while the two rookies will be told "force me to consider waiving a guy instead of starting you in the AHL."

Finally, I don't think Alexandrov goes to the A. That would be better for his development than sitting in the press box for a while, but losing him on waivers is a much worse outcome for the Blues than having him sit in the press box. You just can't risk losing him on waivers because Dean has a better camp just to see Dean hit a rookie wall 3 weeks into the season when the veterans around the league start rounding into mid-season form.

Dean can be sent down right? So there would be no harm in letting him see a week or two ?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Dean can be sent down right? So there would be no harm in letting him see a week or two ?

Dean can, but for Dean to be up, someone would have to go through waivers, and there is no point in taking that risk. If Dean is ready mid-season, then he'll be up when injuries hit. If Dean proves he's good enough for the top 9, then he'll make the team.

 

[Brian39]

Dean can be sent down right? So there would be no harm in letting him see a week or two ?

Dean doesn't require waivers, but @bleedblue1223 is correct that the consequence of keeping him up is that someone else (who does require waivers) has to get sent down.

The 'cost' of trying out Dean at 4C before injuries hit is that Alexandrov sits in the press box and you have to risk losing an extra depth guy to waivers.

The 'cost' of trying out Alexandrov as the 4C before injuries hit is that Dean gets top 6 center minutes in the AHL and you get to keep that depth guy on the NHL roster.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Dean can, but for Dean to be up, someone would have to go through waivers, and there is no point in taking that risk. If Dean is ready mid-season, then he'll be up when injuries hit. If Dean proves he's good enough for the top 9, then he'll make the team.

Agreed with this. I don’t see Dean or Bolduc making it unless we have an injury or two during camp, and they really impress.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Schenn has played wing, so it’s not new for him. Buch looked pretty good at center despite so few game played there.

My big hang up with Buch at center is that he was under 30% in faceoffs.

 

[Celtic Note]

My big hang up with Buch at center is that he was under 30% in faceoffs.

And for a guy who never really took them, I would expect him to be bad. If the worked this season with Ott, I bet he would get better just like Thomas.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Dean doesn't require waivers, but @bleedblue1223 is correct that the consequence of keeping him up is that someone else (who does require waivers) has to get sent down.

The 'cost' of trying out Dean at 4C before injuries hit is that Alexandrov sits in the press box and you have to risk losing an extra depth guy to waivers.

The 'cost' of trying out Alexandrov as the 4C before injuries hit is that Dean gets top 6 center minutes in the AHL and you get to keep that depth guy on the NHL roster.

isn't neighbours still waivers exempt? we all pencil him in, and he is likely to be in opening night lineup, but he has to earn it. and if dean or bolduc beats him out, so be it.

besides that, guys like mac mac and walker aren't going to get claimed. for that matter, if they have bad enough camp can always waive kap or vrana. lots of options.

 

[joe galiba]

And for a guy who never really took them, I would expect him to be bad. If the worked this season with Ott, I bet he would get better just like Thomas.

I would have all the wings work just as hard at faceoffs as any center, there is no downside to having more players actually be capable if there is a need

 

[Majorityof1]

I agree with a ton of this. I do have some small disagreements.

I don't think the D pairs are set at all. Faulk and Scandella got 190 minutes together at 5 on 5 over the 20 games Scandella played last year. It was in extreme defensive usage and while the underlying numbers weren't good, they had a +3 goal differential. I wouldn't be surprised to see the new D coach try them as a pair that requires less sheltering than Krug/Faulk to take some pressure off Leddy/Parayko. I also wouldn't be surprised if they give a long look at Leddy/Faulk in deployment similar to what Krug/Faulk got this year with Scandella/Parayko handling the D load. Or trying Leddy/Faulk in balanced usage with Krug/Parayko in balanced usage.

With a new D coach and the spectacular failure of the D group last year, I don't see any reason that we should be married to the pairs that didn't work. Assuming no pre-camp trade, I have the camp battle breaking down like this:

A LD-Parayko
A LD-Faulk
A LD-3D
3D, 3D

A LDs: Leddy, Krug, Scandella

3Ds: Tucker, Bortz, Rosen, Perunovich

As to Dean and Bolduc, I don't think they are on level playing field to earn NHL jobs. I think they start camp penciled into the AHL and need to show something at camp just to actually get into the battle for an NHL job. I think Blais, Neighbours, and Sunny are being told "force me to put you on the 3rd line instead of the 4th line" while the two rookies will be told "force me to consider waiving a guy instead of starting you in the AHL."

Finally, I don't think Alexandrov goes to the A. That would be better for his development than sitting in the press box for a while, but losing him on waivers is a much worse outcome for the Blues than having him sit in the press box. You just can't risk losing him on waivers because Dean has a better camp just to see Dean hit a rookie wall 3 weeks into the season when the veterans around the league start rounding into mid-season form.

I mostly agree with your disagreements.

D - I agree the top 4 aren't set. But I do have a hard time believing Krug won't be paired with Faulk for some of the time. If Perunovich wins the 6th D, there is no way we are running Krug-Peru. Even if Tucker wins, that is a lot to put on a young D. I could see it with Botz or Rosen. I think whoever wins, we will be double shifting certain D and mixing up the pairs situationally. So Krug Faulk will be out there for offensive situations and Scandy-Faulk will be a thing the same game for defensive situations.

As for Dean and Bolduc, I completely agree. I said as much about Dean a subsequent post. They will both be given a shot with good playing time in the pre-season games but they will have to really, really impress to take advantage of that shot.

I don't agree on Alexandrov. I don't think he is that great of a prospect that we can't slip him through waivers at the right time. If he gets beat out, I mean clearly beat out, he'll get waived. Unless Dean is just awesome and beats him out, while he still beats out someone like Neighbours. Players slip through waivers during training camp all the time who you would think might get claimed. That is the time to try to waive him if you think he needs some more AHL seasoning.

 

[PJJJP]

 

[Linkens Mastery]

At least the roster is pretty much set unless there's a trade.

These aren't the exact lines we'll be seeing in the season but would not be surprised to see them happening either.

Saad-Thomas-Kyrou
Vrana-Schenn-Buchnevich
Neighbours-Hayes-Kapanen
Blais-Alexandrov-Toropchenko
Sunny-Walker/MacMac/Gaudette

Leddy-Parayko
Scandella-Faulk
Krug-Tucker
Rosen/Bortuzzo

Binnington
Hofer

Perunovich starts in the AHL. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Neighbours starts the year in the AHL either.