2023-2024 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[HighNote]

Why would we want to replace Krug with more of the same? If we can get rid of Krug, we should celebrate being rid of a bad hockey player and not be looking for the next bad hockey player to replace him with. The obvious player to replace Krug with is one who can play serviceable defense at the NHL level, not Perunovich.

Cap space.

If you can replace a player with a similar player who is getting paid way less, that gives you more options to actually upgrade the top 4 D.

 

[Majorityof1]

Cap space.

If you can replace a player with a similar player who is getting paid way less, that gives you more options to actually upgrade the top 4 D.

Or, and hear me out. Replace him with someone who is cheaper and better. It shouldn't be hard. Guys in the beer league would probably play for league minimum.

We just waived Rosen and Kessel. Both are about the same cost as Perunovich, and I'd prefer either to Perunovich or Krug.

 

[Mike Liut]

Hayes is going to be a pleasant surprise.

20g 40a

 

[STL fan in MN]

Why would we want to replace Krug with more of the same? If we can get rid of Krug, we should celebrate being rid of a bad hockey player and not be looking for the next bad hockey player to replace him with. The obvious player to replace Krug with is one who can play serviceable defense at the NHL level, not Perunovich.



Why don't we give games to the dozens of other prospects who don't get 100 games? Send him to the AHL to get games instead. If we had a shot at being competitive, I'd be pissed he made the team. As is, I hope he and Krug get 205 minutes a night. Boost our draft pick so we can draft a better D to be the real Krug replacement when we finally get rid of him 4 years from now.

In a vacuum, Krug isn’t a horrible player. He’s clearly NHL caliber. The problem is he’s being paid as a solid top pairing guy. If he was being paid 3rd pairing PP specialist, nobody would have a problem with Krug.

Perunovich is paid like a 3rd pairing PP specialist. That brings value.

I’m not saying to just play him for the sake of it but just that we don’t really know what we have in him yet. I’d like to see him play fairly consistently before making a solid decision on him.

 

[Majorityof1]

In a vacuum, Krug isn’t a horrible player. He’s clearly NHL caliber. The problem is he’s being paid as a solid top pairing guy. If he was being paid 3rd pairing PP specialist, nobody would have a problem with Krug.

Perunovich is paid like a 3rd pairing PP specialist. That brings value.

I’m not saying to just play him for the sake of it but just that we don’t really know what we have in him yet. I’d like to see him play fairly consistently before making a solid decision on him.

Your vaccuum is wrong. Krug is a horrible player. If you are a defenseman and cannot defend at the NHL level, you are a horrible NHL player. Full stop. IF you cannot meet a base level of defense, all the offense in the world isn't going to help. And Perunovich is worse at all aspects. Did you see how he got beat? He is supposed to be this elite skater, and the guy just made a little deke and he is toast. Didn't slow the guy down at all. And its not like this is uncommon. We have seen it before with him. He is terrible.

I have pointed out before why I don't think a PP specialist is worth it. At best, a great PP guy can account for 3-5% better PP than a guy like Faulk. Let's go with 5%. Only one team had more than 300 PPs last year, Ottawa at 306. Let's go with 300 PPs to make the math easier at a 5% boost in PP effectiveness which is also a big boost.. If a PP master can boost you by 5% over 300 PPs, that is 15 extra goals. Krug was -26 last year. Get him the f*** off the ice. Have Faulk and Parayko or Leddy run the PP. We'll get 10 or so fewer PP goals. But we will also give up 50 less open net tap ins while Krug is spinning circles ineffectually moving his stick around trying to look like he is doing anything to defend the slot/crease.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Your vaccuum is wrong. Krug is a horrible player. If you are a defenseman and cannot defend at the NHL level, you are a horrible NHL player. Full stop. IF you cannot meet a base level of defense, all the offense in the world isn't going to help. And Perunovich is worse at all aspects. Did you see how he got beat? He is supposed to be this elite skater, and the guy just made a little deke and he is toast. Didn't slow the guy down at all. And its not like this is uncommon. We have seen it before with him. He is terrible.

I have pointed out before why I don't think a PP specialist is worth it. At best, a great PP guy can account for 3-5% better PP than a guy like Faulk. Let's go with 5%. Only one team had more than 300 PPs last year, Ottawa at 306. Let's go with 300 PPs to make the math easier at a 5% boost in PP effectiveness which is also a big boost.. If a PP master can boost you by 5% over 300 PPs, that is 15 extra goals. Krug was -26 last year. Get him the f*** off the ice. Have Faulk and Parayko or Leddy run the PP. We'll get 10 or so fewer PP goals. But we will also give up 50 less open net tap ins while Krug is spinning circles ineffectually moving his stick around trying to look like he is doing anything to defend the slot/crease.

thought krug had an interesting comment after last night's game. he said the new d system is to stay in good ice. last year system was leave the good ice to make a play on the puck and we allowed lots of easy goals. not sure if its really that simple, but it sure seems like a good start.

 

[Majorityof1]

thought krug had an interesting comment after last night's game. he said the new d system is to stay in good ice. last year system was leave the good ice to make a play on the puck and we allowed lots of easy goals. not sure if its really that simple, but it sure seems like a good start.

I agree with that comment. That is something myself and others called out last year. Our team, and especially our D, chased the puck a lot in the D zone. That left the front of the net open, and is why we saw so many back door tap ins. We had one guy defending the net and everyone else was puck chasing. Krug actually was one of the ones to stay home and defend the net a lot. Unfortunately, there is nothing he can do by himself. He's too small to jostle for position, and his defensive stick is atrocious, so he can't deflect the pass, tie up the other guy's stick or poke check it.

 

[HighNote]

Your vaccuum is wrong. Krug is a horrible player. If you are a defenseman and cannot defend at the NHL level, you are a horrible NHL player. Full stop. IF you cannot meet a base level of defense, all the offense in the world isn't going to help. And Perunovich is worse at all aspects. Did you see how he got beat? He is supposed to be this elite skater, and the guy just made a little deke and he is toast. Didn't slow the guy down at all. And its not like this is uncommon. We have seen it before with him. He is terrible.

I have pointed out before why I don't think a PP specialist is worth it. At best, a great PP guy can account for 3-5% better PP than a guy like Faulk. Let's go with 5%. Only one team had more than 300 PPs last year, Ottawa at 306. Let's go with 300 PPs to make the math easier at a 5% boost in PP effectiveness which is also a big boost.. If a PP master can boost you by 5% over 300 PPs, that is 15 extra goals. Krug was -26 last year. Get him the f*** off the ice. Have Faulk and Parayko or Leddy run the PP. We'll get 10 or so fewer PP goals. But we will also give up 50 less open net tap ins while Krug is spinning circles ineffectually moving his stick around trying to look like he is doing anything to defend the slot/crease.

The point of all this is that the difference in play from Krug to Perunovich is not as large as the difference in cap hit. Just about everyone here would rather Perunovich be in the lineup on the 3rd pairing and have more cap space to work with. Especially in a season like this one where there is no expectation of contending. Then we can use that cap space to improve the defense going forward.

Krug is absolutely an NHL caliber player though. He's averaged about 50 points per 82 games. Even if your defense is below average, that kind of scoring from a defenseman makes you an NHL player. But he is absolutely not a core player, he's the kind of player that you compliment a good core with. Due to our current personnel on defense, we unfortunately cannot do that. That's why he appears to be garbage, because he's playing more minutes than he should, he's up against tougher competition than he can handle, and he's being leaned on defensively too much. If he was paid more like 2m or less and was consistently on the 3rd pairing, almost nobody here would have a problem with him. We'd have a sheltered offensive d-man that can put up 30-35 points and quarterback a PP on a relatively cheap contract. This is what we hope Perunovich can become.

And trust me, I am no Krug-defender. I want him traded ASAP.

 

[ezcreepin]

Why would we want to replace Krug with more of the same? If we can get rid of Krug, we should celebrate being rid of a bad hockey player and not be looking for the next bad hockey player to replace him with. The obvious player to replace Krug with is one who can play serviceable defense at the NHL level, not Perunovich.

Well it's going to be hard to make an argument for a guy like Perunovich because you've already made up your mind about him. You said you'd rather have Rosen or Kessel play as opposed to Perunovich, and we definitely haven't seen enough of either Kessel or Perunovich to say which is better.

Replacing Krug with Perunovich makes sense because they obviously value having a pp specialist and no one on the team really comes close to Krug's production. He outpaced Faulk by nearly double on the pp which is significant enough considering that he and Krug are the only players on the backend to sniff 10 points. As others have mentioned too, if you're going to play a pp specialist in the lineup, you might as well play the much cheaper, homegrown option.

Now I'm not going to say that Perunovich is better than Kessel or Rosen full stop. I haven't seen enough of Kessel to say if he's better, and Rosen though does have really good games, I've seen plenty of other games where he looks lost defensively. In totality, Rosen is probably a better defender, Kessel might be a tad bit better, and Perunovich obviously is an offensive d-man. If this team is truly going for a rebuild/retool, then I'd like Perunovich to play to at least increase his value. If you want to trade him too, then sure go for it, but I'd like to squeeze as much as I can out of him to return a decent prospect. Then you can have your way with either Rosen or Kessel and everyone wins.

 

[Xerloris]

thought krug had an interesting comment after last night's game. he said the new d system is to stay in good ice. last year system was leave the good ice to make a play on the puck and we allowed lots of easy goals. not sure if its really that simple, but it sure seems like a good start.

Oh my, that sounds like a player telling everyone that the coaches f***ed us last year.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Oh my, that sounds like a player telling everyone that the coaches f***ed us last year.

Exactly how it sounds. And exactly how it looked as well.

 

[Brian39]

The dude was not right all of last year. When you use the term "even when healthy" it should come with an asterisk because I dont think he was "healthy" at all last year.

At 5'9 and 32 years old, I think it is just as likely that he will never be 'healthy' again if we are saying he was never healthy last year. He's missed 19 and 18 games in the last 2 seasons and he doesn't have an off switch from the level of physicality he brings. He's already dealt with one minor injury this month.

I very much hope that he can be healthier this year, but I wouldn't bet on it. I think that 'fighting through nagging stuff that limits him to 60-65 games a year' is probably the default health level for Krug at this stage in his career.

 

[Majorityof1]

The point of all this is that the difference in play from Krug to Perunovich is not as large as the difference in cap hit. Just about everyone here would rather Perunovich be in the lineup on the 3rd pairing and have more cap space to work with

But those aren't our only options. We can vote for neither and go out and get a cheap 3rd pairing guy who is not useless on D

Also it may take years to move Krug. Will Perunovich be cheap then? Points drive salary sadly. It's why Krug makes so much. Will Perunovich be a great option 2 years, 4?

Krug is absolutely an NHL caliber player though. He's averaged about 50 points per 82 games. Even if your defense is below average, that kind of scoring from a defenseman makes you an NHL player.

Krug isn't just below average defensively, he is below replacement level. He is below AHL average. Rosen is a replacement level D. With a 1 goal lead in the last 2 minutes, I put Rosen out there over Krug easily. Does 50 points (most on PP where any player would get a bump from PP time) make up for a huge negative goal differential even when heavily sheltered. Krug was awful on 5v5 goal differential last year AND he put a huge burden on our top pair because of how much we had to shelter him to only have him be a -26.

Well it's going to be hard to make an argument for a guy like Perunovich because you've already made up your mind about him.

Perunovich is 25. How much time does a prospect get? I've seen him in college, Ahl, pros, training camp. He's not shown even decent D at any level. He looks great on plays on offense, but it doesn't lead to a ton of goals. Why keep giving chances to a 25 year old who has shown no improvement in 1/2 the game.

Replacing Krug with Perunovich makes sense because they obviously value having a pp specialist and no one on the team really comes close to Krug's production. He outpaced Faulk by nearly double on the pp which is significant enough considering that he and Krug are the only players on the backend to sniff 10 points. As others have mentioned too, if you're going to play a pp specialist in the lineup, you might as well play the much cheaper, homegrown option.

Over the last 3 years(20-21 to 22-23), Krug had a GF per 60 of 9.8 on the PP. Faulk has 7.08. That is hardly double. Also Krug when he plays is on PP1 which has the best forwards, and the most time on a 2 minute PP to set up. Krug gets a1:15 to 1:30 per PP with the best forwards while Faulk gets 30 seconds with grp 2. And even with all that, it isn't doubled. Faulk as Pp1 would have better GF/60. Even without that improvement, Krug had 490 minutes over 3 years. So the difference is roughly 6 goals a season. But we'd lose the black hole of having to shelter Krug on D.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

While I think Krug is a NHLer. He is not worth his high end second pairing price tag. He should be in the 4-5mil range at most.

 

[Brian39]

They absolutely could be that bad. We're worse on paper than going into last season where we got a top 10 pick while teams below us have gotten better.

We cleared "top 5 pick" status by 13 points last season. We were 21+ points ahead of San Jose, Chicago, Columbus and Anaheim.

Chicago added Bedard, Hall, some bottom 6 vets, and will get a full season from Riechel. However, they also moved on from Kane, Toews, McCabe, and Domi. Kane and Domi were their two leading scorers last year and McCabe was their #2 D man (who somehow had a +7 while every other Hawk with 20+ games was -8 or worse). Athanasiou is the only player on their current roster who hit the 40 point mark last season. He had exactly 40. Bedard could put up a 90+ point season and this team could be worse than it was last year. They were a bad team and removed 4 of their best 7 or 8 players.

What did San Jose or Anaheim do to bridge the 21+ point gap between us and them? Columbus made a lot of changes and I can see an argument for them gaining 10+ standings points. But I don't see an avenue for Chicago, san Jose, or Anaheim digging out of the bottom 5.

What did Montreal do to bridge the 13 point gap?

Philly was only 6 points below us, but they got actively worse. They moved their #1 D man for futures, bought out their #2 D man, and traded Hayes. Hayes was 2nd on the team in scoring and DeAngelo led D in scoring by 15 points.

Those are your 5 favorites for top 5 picks this year and I don't see any of them getting better by a noticeable margin. We would need to slide behind At least one of these teams while also seeing Columbus take a 10+ step forward, Arizona getting at least a bit better, and none of the mushy middle teams imploding.

I just don't see it.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

The Blues finishing in the bottom five isn't realistic. The only way that happens is if we have some major injuries to multiple key players.

 

[taylord22]

thought krug had an interesting comment after last night's game. he said the new d system is to stay in good ice. last year system was leave the good ice to make a play on the puck and we allowed lots of easy goals. not sure if its really that simple, but it sure seems like a good start.

I hope so. They’re definitely clogging the middle more. It will lead to more nicks and dings — and model shaming — but should help with the tap-ins.

If Bolduc/Dean light it up at the AHL level, and 1-2 middle six players underperform, I’m interested to see what happens. If the ES/GA and PK notably improve, Army probably doesn’t roll the dice. But if we’re trending in/toward the bottom 10, I have to think he’ll be aggressive in clearing space and maximizing assets.

 

[Thallis]

We cleared "top 5 pick" status by 13 points last season. We were 21+ points ahead of San Jose, Chicago, Columbus and Anaheim.

Chicago added Bedard, Hall, some bottom 6 vets, and will get a full season from Riechel. However, they also moved on from Kane, Toews, McCabe, and Domi. Kane and Domi were their two leading scorers last year and McCabe was their #2 D man (who somehow had a +7 while every other Hawk with 20+ games was -8 or worse). Athanasiou is the only player on their current roster who hit the 40 point mark last season. He had exactly 40. Bedard could put up a 90+ point season and this team could be worse than it was last year. They were a bad team and removed 4 of their best 7 or 8 players.

What did San Jose or Anaheim do to bridge the 21+ point gap between us and them? Columbus made a lot of changes and I can see an argument for them gaining 10+ standings points. But I don't see an avenue for Chicago, san Jose, or Anaheim digging out of the bottom 5.

What did Montreal do to bridge the 13 point gap?

Philly was only 6 points below us, but they got actively worse. They moved their #1 D man for futures, bought out their #2 D man, and traded Hayes. Hayes was 2nd on the team in scoring and DeAngelo led D in scoring by 15 points.

Those are your 5 favorites for top 5 picks this year and I don't see any of them getting better by a noticeable margin. We would need to slide behind At least one of these teams while also seeing Columbus take a 10+ step forward, Arizona getting at least a bit better, and none of the mushy middle teams imploding.

I just don't see it.

Anaheim got a year for their young guys to get ready for the NHL. They also got rid of the best tank general in the league in Dallas eakins. That alone is enough for them to overtake us when you factor in some natural variance. Arizona and Columbus are a lot better. The Canadiens have a young core who may or may not step up their game. It's really not that hard to see those three team take a step past us while we step back. It's not that hard to see -us- implode when our roster is sub par at its best.

 

[EXTRAS]

Or, and hear me out. Replace him with someone who is cheaper and better. It shouldn't be hard. Guys in the beer league would probably play for league minimum.

We just waived Rosen and Kessel. Both are about the same cost as Perunovich, and I'd prefer either to Perunovich or Krug.

Kessel wasn't waived. He's exempt.

 

[Majorityof1]

Kessel wasn't waived. He's exempt.

True, but semantics. I was using waived to imply being sent down. The point was I'd rather see what we have in Kessel. He is younger and looked better in the preseason.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Anaheim got a year for their young guys to get ready for the NHL. They also got rid of the best tank general in the league in Dallas eakins. That alone is enough for them to overtake us when you factor in some natural variance. Arizona and Columbus are a lot better. The Canadiens have a young core who may or may not step up their game. It's really not that hard to see those three team take a step past us while we step back. It's not that hard to see -us- implode when our roster is sub par at its best.

I expect the same. I think the Blues will start decently, and then a couple injuries will derail things. They'll sell at the deadline and have a legit chance at bottom 5, but probably more like 8th.

 

[EXTRAS]

True, but semantics. I was using waived to imply being sent down. The point was I'd rather see what we have in Kessel. He is younger and looked better in the preseason.

Seems like poor asset management if they think they would lose peru to waivers. Wait until there is an injury and then bring up Kessel and check him out.

 

[Majorityof1]

Seems like poor asset management if they think they would lose peru to waivers. Wait until there is an injury and then bring up Kessel and check him out.

Is Perunovich an asset? If he has any worth, trade him. Krug isn't going anywhere any time soon. It will be tough to shelter both of them. Seems like keeping him on the team for another year with minimal deployment rather than trading him was the bad asset management.

 

[BlueDream]

Seems like poor asset management if they think they would lose peru to waivers. Wait until there is an injury and then bring up Kessel and check him out.

Think we’re beyond the point where we can use “asset management” as much of an argument in regards to this defense. We used horrible asset management on Dunn and Walman. But now we’re worried about Perunovich?

 

[EXTRAS]

Think we’re beyond the point where we can use “asset management” as much of an argument in regards to this defense. We used horrible asset management on Dunn and Walman. But now we’re worried about Perunovich?

Two wrongs don't make a right!