Blue Jays GDT: 2022 v8 | Next: Fri, Aug 12 | vs Cle | 7:00pm ET/4:00pm PT | Quantrill vs Berrios

[canucksfan]

Revisionist history. Springer was amazing last year but is oft injured. Ryu was a borderline cy young candidate early on here and has dealt with many injuries since. Berrios was fine last year but fell off the rails this year. No point in twisting history to fit a narrative. Let's see this team fully healthy before saying things like this. Atkins and Shapiro have done an expert job building a top 5 offence in baseball with a great prospect pool AND a good rotation.

I really like the management group but those three moves haven't panned out as well as they hoped.

 

[The Nemesis]

I don't care if he won multiple cy young trophies before he came here.

The fact is we signed him to a very long term and lucrative contract and he's been awful for most of the duration he's been in Toronto

That doesn't make the contract a bad decision because nothing at the time suggested this would happen. The only way you can say management screwed up signing him to a contract is if you want to argue that they should've been literally psychic and seen this coming.

Signing Kikuchi was a bad move because he was a big risk and we knew this outcome was possible. It wasn't a really bad move because it's not like the contract was a big one, but it was still bad.

Signing Berrios was not a bad move because everything about his history suggested he should've continued to be very good. This was not a foreseen outcome. It hasn't worked out given how he's imploded, but a bad move and one that doesn't work out are not the same thing.

 

[DueDiligence]

Berrios is crap.

 

[Nineteen67]

They’ve made some solid individual moves but the jury is still out on their overall performance.


I get being realistic but at some point you have to take the leap of faith with this roster, preferably before you lose cost control on guys like Teoscar.

I think they had a pretty good idea where this team was on July 4th.

 

[trellaine201]

And I thought the Leafs were soft.

 

[shaner8989]

1 hit. Massive game. Massive series. Speaks volumes

 

[Langdon Alger]

That doesn't make the contract a bad decision because nothing at the time suggested this would happen. The only way you can say management screwed up signing him to a contract is if you want to argue that they should've been literally psychic and seen this coming.

Signing Kikuchi was a bad move because he was a big risk and we knew this outcome was possible. It wasn't a really bad move because it's not like the contract was a big one, but it was still bad.

Signing Berrios was not a bad move because everything about his history suggested he should've continued to be very good. This was not a foreseen outcome. It hasn't worked out given how he's imploded, but a bad move and one that doesn't work out are not the same thing.

Great post.

 

[DFF]

Berrios is a big joke

 

[rdogg]

Signing Berrios was not a bad move because everything about his history suggested he should've continued to be very good. This was not a foreseen outcome. It hasn't worked out given how he's imploded, but a bad move and one that doesn't work out are not the same thing.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It seems like the very definition of a bad signing

 

[SeaOfBlue]

That doesn't make the contract a bad decision because nothing at the time suggested this would happen. The only way you can say management screwed up signing him to a contract is if you want to argue that they should've been literally psychic and seen this coming.

Signing Kikuchi was a bad move because he was a big risk and we knew this outcome was possible. It wasn't a really bad move because it's not like the contract was a big one, but it was still bad.

Signing Berrios was not a bad move because everything about his history suggested he should've continued to be very good. This was not a foreseen outcome. It hasn't worked out given how he's imploded, but a bad move and one that doesn't work out are not the same thing.

While this is a baseball thread, this is still HFBoards Leafs. Most people on here have no understanding of the difference.

 

[rdogg]

While this is a baseball thread, this is still HFBoards Leafs. Most people on here have no understanding of the difference.

Leafs fans should be very familiar with bad signings though....

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. It seems like the very definition of a bad signing

Bad signing: Completely overpaying a guy with no track record (or a bad track record) which does not demand the contract they signed, and they would need to completely outplay their past performances (often to an extent which does not seem reasonable) to earn their contract. For example: Kikuchi and possibly Roark.

Good signing that didn't go well: Signing a guy to a contract they have earned with a reasonable expectation that he can live up to that contract, but they failed to do so (either due to injury or underperforming). For example: Ryu and Berrios.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

If the Jays make the playoffs, they can't possibly start this version of Berrios in a game 3 scenario. It'd have to be Stripling.

Also, the record vs >.500 AL teams must be really bad.

 

[rdogg]

Bad signing: Completely overpaying a guy with no track record (or a bad track record) which does not demand the contract they signed, and they would need to completely outplay their past performances (often to an extent which does not seem reasonable) to earn their contract. For example: Kikuchi and possibly Roark.

Good signing that didn't go well: Signing a guy to a contract they have earned with a reasonable expectation that he can live up to that contract, but they failed to do so (either due to injury or underperforming). For example: Ryu and Berrios.

Well it's good to see that Shatkins has such good job security here in Toronto.

They sign a guy who is a total gas-can to a record contract and Jays fans are fawning over how good he was in Minnesota. How many "good signings gone bad" will they have before you wonder if they should be in charge anymore?

 

[CherryToke]

If the Jays make the playoffs, they can't possibly start this version of Berrios in a game 3 scenario. It'd have to be Stripling.

Also, the record vs >.500 AL teams must be really bad.

Don't worry about it, they won't make the playoffs

 

[ktownhockey]

Sod off and get off the bandwagon then.

Don't even engage with that member. Negative central.com

People blaming bad luck are in denial. This team has two good pitchers and a pile of trash

3... I think strips has been very solid, surprisingly!

 

[ktownhockey]

All I hear is excuse after excuse after excuse. 2 HBP 3 singles and a HR. That’s all on the pitcher

Just accept it. We are in big shit. Team is playing pathetic baseball.

They are playing poorly! It's baseball, they could go on a winning streak as soon as tomorrow. Why are you alwaysssss sooooooooo neggggggaaaaatttttttivvvveeeeee. Jays Leafs it doesn't matter, you should win the award though.

Man screw this thread. Can't wait until the Leafs let down the whiners here since that's where the majority of posters no one has heard from until now are coming from.

Everything sucks and the Jays are the worst team since the Cleveland Spiders. There. There's your thread.

As a Leafs and Jays fan, you won't hear that from me. Baseball is a fickle game. Jays pen bothers me BUT we'll go on a run here soon. We're fine for a wildcard battle and who knows after that.

 

[ktownhockey]

I hate that I was right about this, but I noted there was more risk with him than at first glance. Especially after some of his starts last season. He has this annoying tendency of spinning the ball right into the natural trajectory of the bat. I know conventional wisdom is that he has nasty stuff, but every time I watch him pitch it’s difficult to come to that conclusion.

I still hold hope BUT, maybe the twins out smarted our front office.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Well it's good to see that Shatkins has such good job security here in Toronto.

They sign a guy who is a total gas-can to a record contract and Jays fans are fawning over how good he was in Minnesota. How many "good signings gone bad" will they have before you wonder if they should be in charge anymore?

Well he signed a 5 year deal last year, so I imagine he will last most (or all) of that contract short of the Blue Jays completely bottoming out or making a ton of Kikuchi-like signings going forward.

 

[GoonieFace]

2 of those singles were nonsense. 1 of them dribbled down the 3B foul line and just barely didn't cross the line foul. The other went straight out to the 2B except it managed to catch Berrios' foot on the follow through and shot off into a hole in the D as a result. 90+ times out of a hundred those things don't happen and the hits become foul balls or outs.

You complain about excuses, but all I see is uninformed hot take tantrums. You don't even pretend to try and act like there's real thought or consideration in your opinions. It's just the loudest, angriest, buzzword-riddled freakout you can muster.

If you take sports performances this personally that your only reaction is frothing histrionics you might want to consider backing off and finding another hobby because that's not healthy.

Don’t listen to their nonsense, neither Shaner or Sticky are obviously baseball fans. They like to come on here and give hot takes.

Can’t blame Berrios for most of those runs, that’s just baseball sometimes. The offence needs to wake up though, that’s more concerning

 

[GoonieFace]

I don't care if he won multiple cy young trophies before he came here.

The fact is we signed him to a very long term and lucrative contract and he's been awful for most of the duration he's been in Toronto

Does that include him having a 3.5 era last year with Toronto? Give it a rest with this nonsense. They signed one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball who is 28 years old. You can’t fault the front office for making such a move

 

[Nineteen67]

They are playing poorly! It's baseball, they could go on a winning streak as soon as tomorrow. Why are you alwaysssss sooooooooo neggggggaaaaatttttttivvvveeeeee. Jays Leafs it doesn't matter, you should win the award though.


As a Leafs and Jays fan, you won't hear that from me. Baseball is a fickle game. Jays pen bothers me BUT we'll go on a run here soon. We're fine for a wildcard battle and who knows after that.

They’re not fine in the wild card battle, at all.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Save us, White. The offense will be in tough again vs McKenzie

 

[DFF]

Well it's good to see that Shatkins has such good job security here in Toronto.

They sign a guy who is a total gas-can to a record contract and Jays fans are fawning over how good he was in Minnesota. How many "good signings gone bad" will they have before you wonder if they should be in charge anymore?

Exactly, it’s a bad signing/move when the guy is a total failure. It doesn’t matter how good he was before.

 

[Blitzkrug]

New theory: nobody on this team can locate a fastball outside of Manoah. Pete Walker sucks.