Speculation: 2022 Off-Season | Dethroned: What next? - Part 2

[BeingTheThunder]

He gave Ottawa 4 goals/8 assists in 11 games -- and he was due, after being snakebit here last season.

Wasn't just last year. He was "snakebit" his entire career while playing for Tampa. Was there any player that created as many or more chances for themselves and could not finish them than Joseph when he was here? Maybe he wasn't snakebit, maybe he just isn't a good enough finisher.

I miss him a little but I don't miss him at all at $2.95M. I think that's about double what he's shown to be worth.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

Let's see how many turnovers leading to grade A's on Vasy by him it takes for the staff to change their mind.

i dont know, i haven't really watched him play. UDFA, tall, RD, traded to and waived by Nashville prior to the trade, so yeah - probably Sustr 2.0

 

[DrMartinVanNostrand]

Was there any player that created as many or more chances for themselves and could not finish them than Joseph when he was here? Maybe he wasn't snakebit, maybe he just isn't a good enough finisher.

I mean, I often joked about Joseph being J.T. Brown 2.0. At least Joseph finished on some of his chances even if the conversion rate felt suboptimal. J.T. Brown could create breakaway after breakaway and he basically never scored on any of them at all.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Klingberg to Anaheim, 1 year $7M...his old agent really shit the bed hard.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

Wasn't just last year. He was "snakebit" his entire career while playing for Tampa. Was there any player that created as many or more chances for themselves and could not finish them than Joseph when he was here? Maybe he wasn't snakebit, maybe he just isn't a good enough finisher.

I miss him a little but I don't miss him at all at $2.95M. I think that's about double what he's shown to be worth.

He got 12 points in 11 games in Ottawa, after 18 in 58 here. If you don't think that's some reversion to the mean, don't know what to tell you.

Creating a lot of chances is a *good* thing. He's clearly not at point-per-game level, but that's what can happen when you create that much and a few of them start going in.

That $2.95m is a fat contract for Joey, but I'd still prefer him over Namestnikov (even accounting for the extra $0.5m we'd have to scrape up), if that were an option.

I just don't get the "I don't miss Joseph at all" take. We'd be a better team if we could bolt him on for free, certainly with a better PK this last playoffs. Like I said, we won the Paul trade -- but I still miss Joseph.

 

[Sky04]

He got 12 points in 11 games in Ottawa, after 18 in 58 here. If you don't think that's some reversion to the mean, don't know what to tell you.

Creating a lot of chances is a *good* thing. He's clearly not at point-per-game level, but that's what can happen when you create that much and a few of them start going in.

That $2.95m is a fat contract for Joey, but I'd still prefer him over Namestnikov (even accounting for the extra $0.5m we'd have to scrape up), if that were an option.

I just don't get the "I don't miss Joseph at all" take. We'd be a better team if we could bolt him on for free, certainly with a better PK this last playoffs. Like I said, we won the Paul trade -- but I still miss Joseph.

Joseph scored ~10 goals and ~20 points in what was majorly a 4th line role, he PK'd and was one of few bottom-6 players in the league who can create offense out of nothing all while playing at near league minimum salary for us those 4 years, I find it wierd people complain about his finishing like he was paid 4M a year.

 

[Point21]

 

[Byrddog]

Joseph scored ~10 goals and ~20 points in what was majorly a 4th line role, he PK'd and was one of few bottom-6 players in the league who can create offense out of nothing all while playing at near league minimum salary for us those 4 years, I find it wierd people complain about his finishing like he was paid 4M a year.

The thing was when Kuch was out he did play top 6 a lot. He also has limited PP time. The fact that he could not finish was frustrating. Time after time he got one on one chances and found unique ways not to score. He has some skill at takeaways and has good skate speed but in the end he’s as out of control as the kid from the mighty ducks movie. There is a thing about hanging on to players like him for too long hoping they figure it out. ABB is the same he has yet to convert his AHL game to the NHL. He’s what 25 now???? Should be in his prime not trying to stick, but he’s likely going to be on the roster because there’s not much other choice. I bet he’s a 10 goal 25 point guy playing in the top nine. Not exactly what’s needed to replace lost goals.

 

[Sky04]

The thing was when Kuch was out he did play top 6 a lot. He also has limited PP time. The fact that he could not finish was frustrating. Time after time he got one on one chances and found unique ways not to score. He has some skill at takeaways and has good skate speed but in the end he’s as out of control as the kid from the mighty ducks movie. There is a thing about hanging on to players like him for too long hoping they figure it out. ABB is the same he has yet to convert his AHL game to the NHL. He’s what 25 now???? Should be in his prime not trying to stick, but he’s likely going to be on the roster because there’s not much other choice. I bet he’s a 10 goal 25 point guy playing in the top nine. Not exactly what’s needed to replace lost goals.

Yeah a whole 2 seconds per game this year and 4 seconds last year.

 

[Byrddog]

Yeah a whole 2 seconds per game this year and 4 seconds last year.

I sad limited!!!! But I do remember him being out there and the scary thing if he had been here when Point went down he would have been the choice.

 

[The Gongshow]

Chicago looking to trade Kane now...

Imagine

Paul - Point - Kuch
??? - Stamkos - Kane

And a PP of
Kuch - Point - Kane
Stamkos - Hedman

 

[Peacefool]

Chicago looking to trade Kane now...

Imagine

Paul - Point - Kuch
??? - Stamkos - Kane

And a PP of
Kuch - Point - Kane
Stamkos - Hedman

who we can give them for Kane?
And it will be like 0 shots on goal and 58575 passes in front of net if Kuch and Kane play toghether xD

 

[JTBF81]

who we can give them for Kane?
And it will be like 0 shots on goal and 58575 passes in front of net if Kuch and Kane play toghether xD

Would be way too difficult as Tampa would need double retention and then would have to move out Names most likely(plus several picks/prospects). It's a fun dream, but not realistic.

 

[Point21]

who we can give them for Kane?
And it will be like 0 shots on goal and 58575 passes in front of net if Kuch and Kane play toghether xD

would probably be something along the lines of Killorn, 2025 1st, 2024 2nd, and 2 of Goncalves/Thompson/Schmidt/Koepke/Finley/Duke/Huuhtanen and then probably another pick to get the double retention

 

[Fabiobest]

would probably be something along the lines of Killorn, 2025 1st, 2024 2nd, and 2 of Goncalves/Thompson/Schmidt/Koepke/Finley/Duke/Huuhtanen and then probably another pick to get the double retention

We can give Chicago also the Amalie Arena, Tom Brady and a trip to Clearwater...
xD xD xD
Kane is good but his price is absurd...it's not worth...

 

[Point21]

We can give Chicago also the Amalie Arena, Tom Brady and a trip to Clearwater...
xD xD xD
Kane is good but his price is absurd...it's not worth...

i wouldnt give up more than 1 of those prospects, Killorn for salary reasons and maybe a pick

 

[BoltzManConstant]

The thing was when Kuch was out he did play top 6 a lot. He also has limited PP time. The fact that he could not finish was frustrating. Time after time he got one on one chances and found unique ways not to score. He has some skill at takeaways and has good skate speed but in the end he’s as out of control as the kid from the mighty ducks movie. There is a thing about hanging on to players like him for too long hoping they figure it out. ABB is the same he has yet to convert his AHL game to the NHL. He’s what 25 now???? Should be in his prime not trying to stick, but he’s likely going to be on the roster because there’s not much other choice. I bet he’s a 10 goal 25 point guy playing in the top nine. Not exactly what’s needed to replace lost goals.

Ottawa just signed him for 4 x $3m. It's not a "not much other choice" situation.

 

[DFC]

would probably be something along the lines of Killorn, 2025 1st, 2024 2nd, and 2 of Goncalves/Thompson/Schmidt/Koepke/Finley/Duke/Huuhtanen and then probably another pick to get the double retention

It would be more like Cirelli ++ or Sergachev.

I don't think it's realistic at all.

 

[BeingTheThunder]

I just don't get the "I don't miss Joseph at all" take. We'd be a better team if we could bolt him on for free, certainly with a better PK this last playoffs. Like I said, we won the Paul trade -- but I still miss Joseph.

I specifically said I did miss Joseph a little in my post so I don’t know why you said this? I was simply stating he’s being overpaid for what he brings production-wise. My optimism for the moves JBB has made clearly seems to rub some people the wrong way but whatever. I’d rather look forward to the upcoming season with enthusiasm than with dread and an axe to grind. Life’s too short to not look for rainbows through the rain.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

I specifically said I did miss Joseph a little in my post so I don’t know why you said this?

That was the argument I was responding in the post of mine you disagreed with.

 

[The Gongshow]

who we can give them for Kane?
And it will be like 0 shots on goal and 58575 passes in front of net if Kuch and Kane play toghether xD

No one. I was just saying it would be dope lol

JBB chose Hagel over DeBrincat tho....I would have gladly overpaid for him than what we gave up for Hagel

 

[HanTykje]

No one. I was just saying it would be dope lol

JBB chose Hagel over DeBrincat tho....I would have gladly overpaid for him than what we gave up for Hagel

Wonder what makes Hagel worth 2 1st. as of today

 

[RussianGuyovich]

No one. I was just saying it would be dope lol

JBB chose Hagel over DeBrincat tho....I would have gladly overpaid for him than what we gave up for Hagel

we didn't choose hagel over debrincat, we couldn't afford debrincat

Wonder what makes Hagel worth 2 1st. as of today

again, it's contract. debrincat makes 6.4 million a year for one more year, and then will probably get a raise (depending on this next year's performance).

whether or not hagel is worth it is subjective and qualitative.

chicago dumped debrincat because they're rebuilding and didn't want the cap (i guess?), they dumped hagel because the offer from JBB was too sweet.

 

[BeingTheThunder]

That was the argument I was responding in the post of mine you disagreed with.

Ok, I get it. I miss him a little because he's a good kid that tries his best. Fair?

 

[Fabiobest]

i wouldnt give up more than 1 of those prospects, Killorn for salary reasons and maybe a pick

Killorn + 1 prospect + 3 picks for a retained salary...?
It's a big no for me.