NHL Entry Draft 2022 NHL Draft Thread - Part 2

[UglyPuckling]

Stützle is one of the more physical forwards on the team

Not a Tom Wilson type player was the (non pedantic) point based on the subject that was being discussed. Stutzle has a physical element to his game, but that's not why he was drafted. It was for skill.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

A team mixed with skill, talent, grit, determination, strong physical play, etc. is what is required - we all agree with that. I don't see anywhere in my posts that I suggest that these are mutually exclusive (skill/talent versus grit) things, or that I'm recommending one approach versus another. Most (or all) of this is obvious, so not sure why you are mentioning this. Kind of bizarre.

I just said we need to make the playoffs first. That's the first step. So, lets get enough goals to outscore our opponents and get the wins. Hopefully next year we do that.

I was making a more general point and saw your post as an opportunity to make it. I have seen arguments in the past by other posters talking about the importance of skill to get a team into the playoffs and in those past examples they have tended to make skill and grit mutually exclusive. I was under the impression that there are at least some posters who believe that the best way to build a team is to have a mixture of skilled players and some gritty and tough players sprinkled in. I would argue that this is an inferior way of building a team to one where the team is comprised of players who have a combination of both attributes.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Idk, Karlsson didn't look like he was built for playoffs, and looked like a skilled player that would struggle in the playoffs when we drafted him, would you have avoided drafting him?
Did Braden Point look like a guy built for the playoffs? Pettersson only has the one playoff run, but looked impressive, was he a guy at 175 pds soaking wet you'd target? Or would bigger guys like Glass or Rasmussen appear more built for playoffs that year. or would we target guys like Josh Anderson instead?

I think it's easy to say we should target guys built for playoffs, but in practice it's not really all that clear cut. Some guys step up and find an extra gear, find a way to fight through it and make things happen. Other guys don't have that extra gear and until they are battle tested, it's not always clear which is which.

It doesn't necessarily require the players to always have more size. Being well suited for the playoffs has more to do with style of play. Is the player a pure perimeter player or are they highly willing to go to the dirty areas of the ice? Are they highly willing and capable of engaging in and winning 50/50 battles for the puck and territorial positions on the ice? Do they shy away from physical play and allow opposition to push them to the perimeter or are they willing and capable of carrying the puck through traffic, fighting off checks and taking crosschecks and slashes along the way? When the team is down on the scoreboard and the time is starting to run out, do they elevate their game and generate quality scoring chances? Same with the game being tied, are they one of the players who is driving the team towards a win? If the team had a lead late in the game, is the player willing to sacrifice their body to block shots, to hound the opposition to try to win back the puck and do what is necessary for the team to generate the win?

 

[Tap on the Ankle]

"Ottawa Senators Scouting and Player Information System"
makes sense they have their own little software for all that stuff, looks like a web 1.0 page tho lol

 

[Micklebot]

It doesn't necessarily require the players to always have more size. Being well suited for the playoffs has more to do with style of play. Is the player a pure perimeter player or are they highly willing to go to the dirty areas of the ice? Are they highly willing and capable of engaging in and winning 50/50 battles for the puck and territorial positions on the ice? Do they shy away from physical play and allow opposition to push7 them to the perimeter or are they willing and capable of carrying the puck through traffic, fighting off checks and taking crosschecks and slashes along the way? When the team is down on the scoreboard and the time is starting to run out, do they elevate their game and generate quality scoring chances? Same with the game being tied, are they one of the players who is driving the team towards a win? If the team had a lead late in the game, is the player willing to sacrifice their body to block shots, to hound the opposition to try to win back the puck and do what is necessary for the team to generate the win?

Sure, and I get all that, but I doubt a lot of people were looking at Karlsson, Pettersson and Point thinking they are built for NHL playoff hockey. If you did, congrats, but I think you'd be in a small minority.

 

[Qward]

looks like the cast of Moneyball

 

[BondraTime]

Labelling a guy a playoff player or non playoff player during the draft is a way to get terrible draft tendencies and make mistakes on both sides of the spectrum.

They won’t draft a player soft as charmin. That’s not something that needs to be heavily scouted or argued.

Don’t need to weigh 200+ pounds or 6ft+, run people through the boards, be a project or be a tools player.

Sens need to adjust their parameters from the last draft, can’t have another 2021. Can’t be leaving better players on the table for guys viewed as playing “Sens hockey”.

 

[Xspyrit]

What about Vinzenz Rohrer with our 3rd round pick or Boston's 3rd?

Nah that wasn't me. If he's talking about Daugavins I'm pretty sure that was The Fuhr.

I confirm. I was going to actually post it but it was him. He was super high on Mike Knuble too IIRC

 

[BankStreetParade]

Idk, Karlsson didn't look like he was built for playoffs, and looked like a skilled player that would struggle in the playoffs when we drafted him, would you have avoided drafting him?
Did Braden Point look like a guy built for the playoffs? Pettersson only has the one playoff run, but looked impressive, was he a guy at 175 pds soaking wet you'd target? Or would bigger guys like Glass or Rasmussen appear more built for playoffs that year. or would we target guys like Josh Anderson instead?

I think it's easy to say we should target guys built for playoffs, but in practice it's not really all that clear cut. Some guys step up and find an extra gear, find a way to fight through it and make things happen. Other guys don't have that extra gear and until they are battle tested, it's not always clear which is which.

I bet if you asked the fanbase to name the best playoff performers we watched through the last 20 years the names most likely to get the highest share of votes are Alfredsson, Karlsson, Turris and Pageau. And I can't imagine anyone describing any of those guys, based on height and weight, as "built for the playoffs".

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Labelling a guy a playoff player or non playoff player during the draft is a way to get terrible draft tendencies and make mistakes on both sides of the spectrum.

They won’t draft a player soft as charmin. That’s not something that needs to be heavily scouted or argued.

Don’t need to weigh 200+ pounds or 6ft+, run people through the boards, be a project or be a tools player.

Sens need to adjust their parameters from the last draft, can’t have another 2021. Can’t be leaving better players on the table for guys viewed as playing “Sens hockey”.

Well you can make some general assessments that will help to categorize prospects. The answers to these two questions will help to determine if a prospect will be well suited for playoff hockey:

1. How effective is a player at taking away time and space from other players?
2. How effective is a player when opponents take away time and space from them?

A big component of playoff hockey is the ability to take away time and space from the opposition and to adapt to the time and space being taken away from them by their opponents. Playoff style players have a high amount of motivation to play in such situations and are every effective at it. Playoff style offensive players are able to effectively adapt when their time and space is taken away; they change their tactics and find ways to generate chances.

When answering those two questions a prospect that is considered highly effective at both is well suited to playoff hockey. If a prospect is not considered to be effective at one or the other then it invites the question as to why that is the case. Were they matched up against players that were highly effective at both? Were they highly willing to compete in those situations and tried but were simply ineffective? Were the factors that made them less effective or ineffective something that can be easily developed?

 

[aragorn]

I was making a more general point and saw your post as an opportunity to make it. I have seen arguments in the past by other posters talking about the importance of skill to get a team into the playoffs and in those past examples they have tended to make skill and grit mutually exclusive. I was under the impression that there are at least some posters who believe that the best way to build a team is to have a mixture of skilled players and some gritty and tough players sprinkled in. I would argue that this is an inferior way of building a team to one where the team is comprised of players who have a combination of both attributes.

This is the approach I like, find big tough players with skill & to a certain degree I think the Sens have done that with a few of their players (Tkachuk, Batherson, Pinto).

Elite skill is a different thing & rare & you either draft it or trade for it, but it will cost a lot. Not all elite skill excel in the playoffs either so finding a guy like Kucherov or Point won't be easy & there are a number of positions where every team could use it especially in net. The other thing that is difficult is to fit all these guys under a budget & improve the bottom six as much as possible. I think they are slowly getting there though & should take another step forward next season. Unfortunatley it's a longer process than people like.

 

[Senator Stanley]

"Ottawa Senators Scouting and Player Information System"
makes sense they have their own little software for all that stuff, looks like a web 1.0 page tho lol

They appear to be using Rinknet. It's very basic looking software but it's industry standard.

"Our flagship player management system is used by over 3,500 hockey executives, including every NHL teams, every CHL, USHL and NAHL club as well as a host of junior teams and leagues across North America plus many NCAA schools as well as Hockey Canada and U.S.A. Hockey."

About — RINKNET

www.rinknet.com

 

[ksens]

looks like the cast of Moneyball

"Wright's girlfriend is a 6, at best."

 

[RAFI BOMB]

 

[R2010]

Totally understandable position to take, no arguments from me, though I don’t really agree. If you look at the statistics, what fans expect of a 10oa pick is not what usually comes from 10oa picks; expectations vs reality is skewed.

Looking at Sillinger makes things sting a bit, because many of us wanted him to be picked, but Boucher still has time to become a good NHLer, which is what you realistically hope for from a 10oa. He has his work cut out for him, and he seems to know it.

I’ll back our kid, give him time to develop, and I don’t agree that the 19 year old kid is done physically developing, and see how it all pans out.

Cheers!

Yeah it just seems like he's more developed than usual. I hope he ends up being a productive 3rd line player. It would be useful certainly. People do need to realign their expectations at #10 but you hope if all goes well they become a top six forward at their ceiling (whether they achieve or not). I'm not sure from the outset many people saw him being able to fill that role if he hit his potential. Hope it works out but it feels very Logan Brown-ish already.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Yeah it just seems like he's more developed than usual. I hope he ends up being a productive 3rd line player. It would be useful certainly. People do need to realign their expectations at #10 but you hope if all goes well they become a top six forward at their ceiling (whether they achieve or not). I'm not sure from the outset many people saw him being able to fill that role if he hit his potential. Hope it works out but it feels very Logan Brown-ish already.

I agree with you here, and I thought we’d take Sillinger for sure like most folks.

They certainly had/have high hopes for Boucher, and he had a very disappointing season as he himself has talked about. He has time to turn things around for sure, but in the end it’s the actions and not the talk that matter.

I’m leaning into the hope, and no longer care about the shoulda/coulda/woulda because that ship has sailed. He has some intriguing potential that I hope he meets, but like you said, he’s going to have to prove to himself and to everyone else that he isn’t trending towards Brown territory.

The good news is he has a few years on Brown

 

[jhutter]

I agree with you here, and I thought we’d take Sillinger for sure like most folks.

They certainly had/have high hopes for Boucher, and he had a very disappointing season as he himself has talked about. He has time to turn things around for sure, but in the end it’s the actions and not the talk that matter.

I’m leaning into the hope, and no longer care about the shoulda/coulda/woulda because that ship has sailed. He has some intriguing potential that I hope he meets, but like you said, he’s going to have to prove to himself and to everyone else that he isn’t trending towards Brown territory.

The good news is he has a few years on Brown

He's currently trending worse than Brown, lol.

 

[Cosmix]

Yeah it just seems like he's more developed than usual. I hope he ends up being a productive 3rd line player. It would be useful certainly. People do need to realign their expectations at #10 but you hope if all goes well they become a top six forward at their ceiling (whether they achieve or not). I'm not sure from the outset many people saw him being able to fill that role if he hit his potential. Hope it works out but it feels very Logan Brown-ish already.

I think its worse as Logan Brown seemed to have offensive skills but was injured often. Logan seemed to have potential to become a top 6 Center, perhaps top line. I doin't think Boucher ever showed that level of talent.

 

[BondraTime]

Brown obviously had a way higher ceiling. He had questions about his attitude, training and compete.

Boucher is the exact opposite. He’s got a great attitude, trains very hard, and competes very hard, but he doesn’t have near the ceiling that Brown did.

 

[aragorn]

Boucher has the intagibles that coaches love while Brown has the offensive skillset that fans love. Unfortunately whether it's injuries, out of shape or lack of drive Brown has yet to show he belongs in the NHL. Boucher on the other hand will be able to play at some compacity based on his intangibles & hopefully add some scoring to that skillset as well.

 

[NHL Dude 120]

In a couple of yrs or 3:
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Gauthier - Stutzle - Boucher
Formenton - Pinto - C. Brown/Joseph/Kaplin
Ostapchuk - Kastelic - Sokolov

Chabot - Luneau
Sanderson - JBD
Kleven - Warren

- Boucher is like Tkachuk lite & Gauthier has some playmaking ability like Batherson lite & Stutzle is suppose to be better than Norris. Could be an interesting line.

- Chabot & Luneau would be the offensive tandem, Kleven & Warren would be the shudown tandem required on D & Sanderson & JBD would be a little bit of both.

I don't think we are getting Luneau tbh

 

[Tragedy]

Boucher has the intagibles that coaches love while Brown has the offensive skillset that fans love. Unfortunately whether it's injuries, out of shape or lack of drive Brown has yet to show he belongs in the NHL. Boucher on the other hand will be able to play at some compacity based on his intangibles & hopefully add some scoring to that skillset as well.

"And hopefully add some scoring" - Words you love to hear about your top 10 picks

 

[Sens in Process]

Watching Jiricek at the Worlds, I am starting to cool off on him as a possible target at #7.
I think there are valid concerns about his skating and balance through his pivots. He has fallen quite a bit in this tourney. He seems far from a finished product and it will likely take him years before cracking a NHL lineup.

Kasper's play driving is impressive. He does much of he heavy lifting carrying the puck through the neutral zone for the Austrian team and this is highlighted by expectational Corsi. I have some concerns about his offensive production in the NHL, but he he is a really good prospect.

My realistic target list:
Gauthier/Kemell
Kapers
Jiricek

I think the obvious big 4 are Wright, Slafkovsky, Cooley and Nemec, but there seems to be an emerging uncertainty on the order of these four.

 

[Tragedy]

Watching Jiricek at the Worlds, I am starting to cool off on him as a possible target at #7.
I think there are valid concerns about his skating and balance through his pivots. He has fallen quite a bit in this tourney. He seems far from a finished product and it will likely take him years before cracking a NHL lineup.

Kasper's play driving is impressive. He does much of he heavy lifting carrying the puck through the neutral zone for the Austrian team and this is highlighted by expectational Corsi. I have some concerns about his offensive production in the NHL, but he he is a really good prospect.

My realistic target list:
Gauthier/Kemell
Kapers
Jiricek

I think the obvious big 4 are Wright, Slafkovsky, Cooley and Nemec, but there seems to be an emerging uncertainty on the order of these four.

I haven't had time to watch him so I have no real opinion on the player but I do want to say Brady falls like 7 times a game so I wouldn't hold it against Jiricek too much haha

 

[Ice-Tray]

Brown obviously had a way higher ceiling. He had questions about his attitude, training and compete.

Boucher is the exact opposite. He’s got a great attitude, trains very hard, and competes very hard, but he doesn’t have near the ceiling that Brown did.

And yet he may end up being the better NHL player.

It’s crazy how a person can have all the skills in the world….

I haven't had time to watch him so I have no real opinion on the player but I do want to say Brady falls like 7 times a game so I wouldn't hold it against Jiricek too much haha

Only 7?