NHL Entry Draft 2022 NHL Draft Thread - Part 2

[Wondercarrot]

How do people feel about trading down? What would it take for you to drop down into the 12-15 range?

More than anyone will offer.
We need quality, not quantity.

 

[Akrapovince]

More than anyone will offer.
We need quality, not quantity.

I wonder if a team is really high on Savoie in the top five and would be willing to take the risk of moving back and gaining a pick to get him…

 

[BondraTime]

I wonder if a team is really high on Savoie in the top five and would be willing to take the risk of moving back and gaining a pick to get him…

If a team is high on Savoie in the top 5 they’ll just use the pick on Savoie

 

[dumbdick]

More than anyone will offer.
We need quality, not quantity.

I guess the question was more whether people see a small enough drop in quality between 7 and, say, 12, that they would be willing to drop down to snag another asset.

From what I've read this draft is pretty good in the 10-20 range.

 

[Sweatred]

I guess the question was more whether people see a small enough drop in quality between 7 and, say, 12, that they would be willing to drop down to snag another asset.

From what I've read this draft is pretty good in the 10-20 range.

Other than one of the right shot D, we probably take a consensus 8-20 at 7…

Feels like splitting hairs a bit on Cutter, Nazar, Rutger, etc …

Although I think Cutter Gauthier jumped to #3 in NA skaters … his profile would look great with Tim.

 

[dumbdick]

Just for comparison purposes on a possible trade down, here is 7OA vs. 15+30 going back a few years.

7 vs 15+30:
Holtz vs. Amirov + Borque
Cozens vs. Caufield + Beecher
Q. Hughes vs. Denisenko + Veleno
L. Andersson vs. Brannstrom + Tolvannen
Keller vs. Kunin + Steel
Provorov vs. Senyshyn + Merkley
Fleury vs. Larkin + Quennville

 

[Rodzilla]

Catching up in this thread

The fact that we passed twice on Peterka is mind blowing, friends with Tim too, so dumb. Especially the Jarventie pick.

I also understand its really early and kids need time but its crazy how some always defend every move the org makes. Boucher’s pick is looking terrible, his production and overall play in the OHL were both very weak.

As for this draft, I am hoping for ;

Jiricek
Gauthier
Kemell

Dream would be to trade up for Slaf but it wont happen

 

[Cosmix]

I guess the question was more whether people see a small enough drop in quality between 7 and, say, 12, that they would be willing to drop down to snag another asset.

From what I've read this draft is pretty good in the 10-20 range.

I might trade our 2022 7th pick for another team’s 2022 12-15th pick plus their 2023 first round pick (not lottery protected).

 

[GermanSpitfire]

How do people feel about trading down? What would it take for you to drop down into the 12-15 range?

Give us a second or two - the difference between the player we get at 7 and 12-15 is small.

 

[Sun God Nika]

How do people feel about trading down? What would it take for you to drop down into the 12-15 range?

Take Zaitsev contract away

 

[aragorn]

In a couple of yrs or 3:
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Gauthier - Stutzle - Boucher
Formenton - Pinto - C. Brown/Joseph/Kaplin
Ostapchuk - Kastelic - Sokolov

Chabot - Luneau
Sanderson - JBD
Kleven - Warren

- Boucher is like Tkachuk lite & Gauthier has some playmaking ability like Batherson lite & Stutzle is suppose to be better than Norris. Could be an interesting line.

- Chabot & Luneau would be the offensive tandem, Kleven & Warren would be the shudown tandem required on D & Sanderson & JBD would be a little bit of both.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Having these heavy players for the playoffs is great. Sill need enough talent and goal scoring to be able to make it into the playoffs as well you'd think.

The only talent you need is playoff talent. All players who have strong production in the playoffs can produce in the regular season, whereas not all players who produce in the regular season are capable of strong production in the playoffs.

Teams with a lot of regular season talent tend to do very well in the rankings, so they get their teams into the playoffs but their teams rarely go very far. Whereas teams with a lot of playoff talent may not rank quite as high as some teams with a lot of regular season talent but they almost always go further in the playoffs, and they tend to regularly make the playoffs as well.

From a roster construction and drafting perspective I wouldn't target any player that wasn't built for playoff hockey. I would avoid skill players that seemed like they would struggle in that environment. I would want the skill that helps get the team into the playoffs to be the skill that helps the team win the cup.

 

[Sweatred]

The only talent you need is playoff talent. All players who have strong production in the playoffs can produce in the regular season, whereas not all players who produce in the regular season are capable of strong production in the playoffs.

Teams with a lot of regular season talent tend to do very well in the rankings, so they get their teams into the playoffs but their teams rarely go very far. Whereas teams with a lot of playoff talent may not rank quite as high as some teams with a lot of regular season talent but they almost always go further in the playoffs, and they tend to regularly make the playoffs as well.

From a roster construction and drafting perspective I wouldn't target any player that wasn't built for playoff hockey. I would avoid skill players that seemed like they would struggle in that environment. I would want the skill that helps get the team into the playoffs to be the skill that helps the team win the cup.

This is why we didn’t draft Silinger and why we shouldn’t trade for Fiala.

 

[Big Muddy]

The only talent you need is playoff talent. All players who have strong production in the playoffs can produce in the regular season, whereas not all players who produce in the regular season are capable of strong production in the playoffs.

Teams with a lot of regular season talent tend to do very well in the rankings, so they get their teams into the playoffs but their teams rarely go very far. Whereas teams with a lot of playoff talent may not rank quite as high as some teams with a lot of regular season talent but they almost always go further in the playoffs, and they tend to regularly make the playoffs as well.

From a roster construction and drafting perspective I wouldn't target any player that wasn't built for playoff hockey. I would avoid skill players that seemed like they would struggle in that environment. I would want the skill that helps get the team into the playoffs to be the skill that helps the team win the cup.

A team mixed with skill, talent, grit, determination, strong physical play, etc. is what is required - we all agree with that. I don't see anywhere in my posts that I suggest that these are mutually exclusive (skill/talent versus grit) things, or that I'm recommending one approach versus another. Most (or all) of this is obvious, so not sure why you are mentioning this. Kind of bizarre.

I just said we need to make the playoffs first. That's the first step. So, lets get enough goals to outscore our opponents and get the wins. Hopefully next year we do that.

 

[Micklebot]

From a roster construction and drafting perspective I wouldn't target any player that wasn't built for playoff hockey. I would avoid skill players that seemed like they would struggle in that environment. I would want the skill that helps get the team into the playoffs to be the skill that helps the team win the cup.

Idk, Karlsson didn't look like he was built for playoffs, and looked like a skilled player that would struggle in the playoffs when we drafted him, would you have avoided drafting him?
Did Braden Point look like a guy built for the playoffs? Pettersson only has the one playoff run, but looked impressive, was he a guy at 175 pds soaking wet you'd target? Or would bigger guys like Glass or Rasmussen appear more built for playoffs that year. or would we target guys like Josh Anderson instead?

I think it's easy to say we should target guys built for playoffs, but in practice it's not really all that clear cut. Some guys step up and find an extra gear, find a way to fight through it and make things happen. Other guys don't have that extra gear and until they are battle tested, it's not always clear which is which.

 

[Mingus Dew]

This is why we didn’t draft Silinger and why we shouldn’t trade for Fiala.

We didn't draft Sillinger because we liked Boucher better. Very simple. Looking dumb now just like it looked then. Sillinger will be a better playoff performer than Boucher as he's better at hockey.

I don't want to trade the 7OA for Fiala but I'd be interested if the price is right. We need offensively gifted players.

 

[ijif]

In a couple of yrs or 3:
Tkachuk - Norris - Batherson
Gauthier - Stutzle - Boucher
Formenton - Pinto - C. Brown/Joseph/Kaplin
Ostapchuk - Kastelic - Sokolov

Chabot - Luneau
Sanderson - JBD
Kleven - Warren

- Boucher is like Tkachuk lite & Gauthier has some playmaking ability like Batherson lite & Stutzle is suppose to be better than Norris. Could be an interesting line.

- Chabot & Luneau would be the offensive tandem, Kleven & Warren would be the shudown tandem required on D & Sanderson & JBD would be a little bit of both.

The probability that Gauthier, Boucher, Kaplin, Ostapchuk, Sokolov, Luneau, JBD, Kleven, and Warren all become serviceable NHL players is approximately 0%. This is a fantasy line-up that will never exist in reality.

 

[Sweatred]

We didn't draft Sillinger because we liked Boucher better. Very simple. Looking dumb now just like it looked then. Sillinger will be a better playoff performer than Boucher as he's better at hockey.

I don't want to trade the 7OA for Fiala but I'd be interested if the price is right. We need offensively gifted players.

Trading for Fiala is a Dorion job saver … it will probably look good this year and next year … Dorion probably isn’t the GM much longer and we will feel the pain of this move once he has moved on and we are trying to go deep into the playoffs. There is a good chance we get a Zibby situation Al over with that 7OA.

We liked Boucher more because he was viewed as a better playoff performer … who knows if that happened or not. Even today, Silinger doesn’t project as anything more on this team the a 2PP/2ND line player. He doesn’t project to play a role of an elite matchup guy and right or wrong that’s what we’re looking for with most of the teams scoring already acquired (and soon to be paid).

 

[UglyPuckling]

Idk, Karlsson didn't look like he was built for playoffs, and looked like a skilled player that would struggle in the playoffs when we drafted him, would you have avoided drafting him?
Did Braden Point look like a guy built for the playoffs? Pettersson only has the one playoff run, but looked impressive, was he a guy at 175 pds soaking wet you'd target? Or would bigger guys like Glass or Rasmussen appear more built for playoffs that year. or would we target guys like Josh Anderson instead?

I think it's easy to say we should target guys built for playoffs, but in practice it's not really all that clear cut. Some guys step up and find an extra gear, find a way to fight through it and make things happen. Other guys don't have that extra gear and until they are battle tested, it's not always clear which is which.

Agreed.

We have skill guys like Stutzle & Chabot who are not big physical guys. It's like baking a cake. It requires multiple ingredients.

 

[PlayOn]

Trading for Fiala is a Dorion job saver … it will probably look good this year and next year … Dorion probably isn’t the GM much longer and we will feel the pain of this move once he has moved on and we are trying to go deep into the playoffs. There is a good chance we get a Zibby situation Al over with that 7OA.

We liked Boucher more because he was viewed as a better playoff performer … who knows if that happened or not. Even today, Silinger doesn’t project as anything more on this team the a 2PP/2ND line player. He doesn’t project to play a role of an elite matchup guy and right or wrong that’s what we’re looking for with most of the teams scoring already acquired (and soon to be paid).

Yeah, not sure how a Fiala acquisition ages, specifically as it relates to his contract. I don’t think it’s wise to give up cap flexibility before you’ve ever even made the playoffs. Yeah we need to get in, but adding Fiala at 7 mil + for 7 years would mean we are confident that this group as is can get it done, because we aren’t going to have a lot of space to maneuver.

We need to add a top 6 F, but I’m not sure that kind of contract is ideal. Then you add on top of it whatever we give up and I suspect in four years we’ll be debating whether we should have just stayed the course.

 

[Sweatred]

Yeah, not sure how a Fiala acquisition ages, specifically as it relates to his contract. I don’t think it’s wise to give up cap flexibility before you’ve ever even made the playoffs. Yeah we need to get in, but adding Fiala at 7 mil + for 7 years would mean we are confident that this group as is can get it done, because we aren’t going to have a lot of space to maneuver.

We need to add a top 6 F, but I’m not sure that kind of contract is ideal. Then you add on top of it whatever we give up and I suspect in four years we’ll be debating whether we should have just stayed the course.

The leafs and panthers are great examples that our real push is going to come in 4-5 years + … Not the next 2.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Trading for Fiala is a Dorion job saver … it will probably look good this year and next year … Dorion probably isn’t the GM much longer and we will feel the pain of this move once he has moved on and we are trying to go deep into the playoffs. There is a good chance we get a Zibby situation Al over with that 7OA.

We liked Boucher more because he was viewed as a better playoff performer … who knows if that happened or not. Even today, Silinger doesn’t project as anything more on this team the a 2PP/2ND line player. He doesn’t project to play a role of an elite matchup guy and right or wrong that’s what we’re looking for with most of the teams scoring already acquired (and soon to be paid).

I don't want to trade the 7OA. But Fiala is young and would be coming with an extension. Under the right circumstances it could work for this team as he would align with the presumptive competitive window (opening 2-3 years from now).

The bolded is opinion. All we know is that they liked Boucher more based on the fact that they drafted him. The reasons behind that are with the team and the scouting department.

Sillinger is unquestionably a Top 6 forward for us. We need those because right now we've got Norris, Batherson, Tkachuk and Stutzle as reliable options. Brown/Formenton/Joseph are great players but they are not Top 6 contributors on a contending team.

 

[Sweatred]

I don't want to trade the 7OA. But Fiala is young and would be coming with an extension. Under the right circumstances it could work for this team as he would align with the presumptive competitive window (opening 2-3 years from now).

The bolded is opinion. All we know is that they liked Boucher more based on the fact that they drafted him. The reasons behind that are with the team and the scouting department.

Sillinger is unquestionably a Top 6 forward for us. We need those because right now we've got Norris, Batherson, Tkachuk and Stutzle as reliable options. Brown/Formenton/Joseph are great players but they are not Top 6 contributors on a contending team.

My point is that I don’t think Silinger or Fiala are the “missing piece” this org will need in their competitive window. Both players may be close to $5-8 million and virtually block our ability to acquire what we are looking for.

Florida took Giroux as their piece and that was less beneficial than TB going with Paul …

 

[Mingus Dew]

My point is that I don’t think Silinger or Fiala are the “missing piece” this org will need in their competitive window. Both players may be close to $5-8 million and virtually block our ability to acquire what we are looking for.

Florida took Giroux as their piece and that was less beneficial than TB going with Paul …

I think we have a number of missing pieces. We need another Top 6 forward (2 ideally) and another Top 4 defenseman (while retaining Zub). We also need a starting goaltender.

Fiala addresses one of our needs. Yeah I would love to just get a cost-controlled Top 6 player rather than sign a guy to $7mm/year (enter: Cole Sillinger) but that's easier said than done.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Agreed.

We have skill guys like Stutzle & Chabot who are not big physical guys. It's like baking a cake. It requires multiple ingredients.

Stützle is one of the more physical forwards on the team