Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Shark Finn]

EK65 could be moved.

I've played NHL video games too and traded just about everyone.

And I'll gladly eat crow on this one.

 

[ThorNton Apologist]

I may be in the minority but keep Karlsson. There has to be a reason to actually watch this team and attend games. He’s worth it alone on how he has played this season. He’s worth more to this team than he would return in a trade anyways

 

[Flamingo]

I may be in the minority but keep Karlsson. There has to be a reason to actually watch this team and attend games. He’s worth it alone on how he has played this season. He’s worth more to this team than he would return in a trade anyways

Welcome to your Sens years.

Seriously, glad he's found his groove again. Too bad it wasn't four years ago.

 

[Alaskanice]

I think you could very strongly make the case that he had to keep his ego in check with Burns there, and we know that Karlsson works best with his ego unchecked. Kinda like how Malkin has always played "better" when Crosby was injured, Karlsson is now given the keys and he's flooring it.

Burns was "the guy" in all situations. 1st PP QB, 1st pairing D, go-to point option down a goal, etc. Now the offense runs through Karlsson.

One big reason why “All star” teams are not very good.

 

[Gecklund]

One of the things I like about Grier is that his FO seems to leak more than DW

I think a bit of it is to let other teams know. NHL is 100% not a league where superstars move. Grier can go tell other GMs hey I’m open to moving these guys but they could think he isn’t really open to moving them unless it’s for an overpayment because well precedent. I think by leaking things to the media about Timo and EK it’s just more confirmation that he’s open to moving them.

I may be in the minority but keep Karlsson. There has to be a reason to actually watch this team and attend games. He’s worth it alone on how he has played this season. He’s worth more to this team than he would return in a trade anyways

I think if a team gives up top futures and we don’t retain, maybe we look at trading him. Otherwise keep him. I think that’s pretty much the consensus view at least around here.

 

[WSS11]

It sounds like Grier realizes that Karlsson has cracked open a trade window that could yield an actual return with his play. We’ll probably have to retain a little but if he can load up on some futures, then he should do it. The cap going up helps but so does Erik putting up 80pts.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think a bit of it is to let other teams know. NHL is 100% not a league where superstars move. Grier can go tell other GMs hey I’m open to moving these guys but they could think he isn’t really open to moving them unless it’s for an overpayment because well precedent. I think by leaking things to the media about Timo and EK it’s just more confirmation that he’s open to moving them.


I think if a team gives up top futures and we don’t retain, maybe we look at trading him. Otherwise keep him. I think that’s pretty much the consensus view at least around here.

If Karlsson wants to stay, I'd keep him. If Karlsson wants to go though, I'd accommodate him including taking what will probably be a bad deal with retention. Moving Karlsson pretty much cements rebuild status and they're not going to need the entirety of his 11.5 mil for anything they actually have right now during the next four seasons. Even us getting Bedard this year won't require all of his 11.5 because we're going to get more cap dollars as we move along.

 

[Gecklund]

If Karlsson wants to stay, I'd keep him. If Karlsson wants to go though, I'd accommodate him including taking what will probably be a bad deal with retention. Moving Karlsson pretty much cements rebuild status and they're not going to need the entirety of his 11.5 mil for anything they actually have right now during the next four seasons. Even us getting Bedard this year won't require all of his 11.5 because we're going to get more cap dollars as we move along.

My issue with retention isn’t the actual retaining salary part. I totally agree it won’t be needed. My issue with retaining is we are already retaining on Burns until 2025. If we are also retaining on EK, we only have one retention spot until 25-26 and two until 27-28. That retention spot could come back to bite us in the ass. Let’s think this year for example. If we retain 50% on Timo and 50% on Reimer that makes their deadline cap hits minimal, leading to more teams getting involved and bidding wars. This could apply next year to Barabanov, Kahkonen, Lindblom, Labanc, Kunin or the year after for Sturm and other FA signings. I just think it’s not worth it to retain and risk getting less or nothing at all for 6 of these guys.

 

[hohosaregood]

I think this is just karlsson being healthy again. In his first season here and also last season, he was making high level plays too. Boughners system and practice was also pretty terrible.

I would keep Karlsson too. I don't think we can get very good value out of him without significant retention, and I'm pretty sure we'd have to give up value to move his contract.

 

[Hodge]

My issue with retention isn’t the actual retaining salary part. I totally agree it won’t be needed. My issue with retaining is we are already retaining on Burns until 2025. If we are also retaining on EK, we only have one retention spot until 25-26 and two until 27-28. That retention spot could come back to bite us in the ass. Let’s think this year for example. If we retain 50% on Timo and 50% on Reimer that makes their deadline cap hits minimal, leading to more teams getting involved and bidding wars. This could apply next year to Barabanov, Kahkonen, Lindblom, Labanc, Kunin or the year after for Sturm and other FA signings. I just think it’s not worth it to retain and risk getting less or nothing at all for 6 of these guys.

Oh no, if we retain salary in order to dump the worst contract in the NHL it might prevent us from acquiring a 7th round pick for Oskar Lindblom at the 2024 trade deadline.

 

[Karl Prime]

Where was his pride the last few years? He is playing amazing this year. Looks like a completely different person. Even if the results weren’t there, if he gave the effort he is giving now during his whole time in teal I wouldn’t hate him. As it stands, I will be very pleased when that pos is off my team.

He had 8 goals in his first 22 games last season. Was playing better than Burns before the injury and then after it the offense dried up but not surprising that coincided with Meier and Hertl struggling a lot to end the season. He's not really playing any different than he did last season, just that now he has a different coach and #1 minutes. And like I said, he's getting far less defensive responsibilities. 19-20 was rough but that season was rough for everybody, and he was still third in PPG when he got injured. 2021 was the season he really wasn't even playing like himself, not taking many offensive risks.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

My issue with retention isn’t the actual retaining salary part. I totally agree it won’t be needed. My issue with retaining is we are already retaining on Burns until 2025. If we are also retaining on EK, we only have one retention spot until 25-26 and two until 27-28. That retention spot could come back to bite us in the ass. Let’s think this year for example. If we retain 50% on Timo and 50% on Reimer that makes their deadline cap hits minimal, leading to more teams getting involved and bidding wars. This could apply next year to Barabanov, Kahkonen, Lindblom, Labanc, Kunin or the year after for Sturm and other FA signings. I just think it’s not worth it to retain and risk getting less or nothing at all for 6 of these guys.

I don’t see that second retention spot as a dire need for any of those players. Rentals at two mil and change isn’t a huge concern at the deadline. If it is, the acquiring team will pay another team to do it for us. I just don’t see a loss worth keeping retention off the table for Karlsson when it’s likely required to make a trade happen there. I also wouldn’t want it to strain relationships with Karlsson because once he wants out, the value will get worse and if you hold out on moving him, you’re only going to make the culture worse until it gets done.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Grier actually sees the bigger picture and is looking to the future. Yeah, the sharks are playing well Karlsson is playing really well and that has opened up an avenue for him to be traded because his value is at an all-time high right now. Grier has the capability of getting a nice return for Karlsson and making this rebuild look a lot sweeter couple years down the road. I say do it. I don’t know why but the first team that popped in my mind was Pitt. Without knowing anything about anyone else’s cap situation, Pitt, Fla, NyI and NYR. Don’t skewer me cause those teams may not have much cap space but with enough retention and a good enough return, I could see something getting done.

 

[Gecklund]

I don’t see that second retention spot as a dire need for any of those players. Rentals at two mil and change isn’t a huge concern at the deadline. If it is, the acquiring team will pay another team to do it for us. I just don’t see a loss worth keeping retention off the table for Karlsson when it’s likely required to make a trade happen there. I also wouldn’t want it to strain relationships with Karlsson because once he wants out, the value will get worse and if you hold out on moving him, you’re only going to make the culture worse until it gets done.

I guess my thought is if he wanted out it would have happened this off-season. We are currently outplaying what the expectations were in the off-season. You could clearly tell this team was going no where in the off-season. With so many teams in cap trouble we can say 2M wouldn’t be an issue but it would be for a lot of teams.

Grier actually sees the bigger picture and is looking to the future. Yeah, the sharks are playing well Karlsson is playing really well and that has opened up an avenue for him to be traded because his value is at an all-time high right now. Grier has the capability of getting a nice return for Karlsson and making this rebuild look a lot sweeter couple years down the road. I say do it. I don’t know why but the first team that popped in my mind was Pitt. Without knowing anything about anyone else’s cap situation, Pitt, Fla, NyI and NYR. Don’t skewer me cause those teams may not have much cap space but with enough retention and a good enough return, I could see something getting done.

So you want to move a top pairing offensive RD to 4 teams with top pairing offensive RD? None of those teams make any sense whatsoever even when you exclude cap which none of those teams have.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

I guess my thought is if he wanted out it would have happened this off-season. We are currently outplaying what the expectations were in the off-season. You could clearly tell this team was going no where in the off-season. With so many teams in cap trouble we can say 2M wouldn’t be an issue but it would be for a lot of teams.

So you want to move a top pairing offensive RD to 4 teams with top pairing offensive RD? None of those teams make any sense whatsoever even when you exclude cap which none of those teams have.

I stand corrected. Yeah those teams make no sense. Sorry about that. I guess those are teams I see as trying to contend for a cup and teams he may want to play for.

 

[LadyStanley]

Friedman can't see the Sens willing to trade pieces to acquire EK65

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Grier actually sees the bigger picture and is looking to the future. Yeah, the sharks are playing well Karlsson is playing really well and that has opened up an avenue for him to be traded because his value is at an all-time high right now. Grier has the capability of getting a nice return for Karlsson and making this rebuild look a lot sweeter couple years down the road. I say do it. I don’t know why but the first team that popped in my mind was Pitt. Without knowing anything about anyone else’s cap situation, Pitt, Fla, NyI and NYR. Don’t skewer me cause those teams may not have much cap space but with enough retention and a good enough return, I could see something getting done.

Not to beat you up but none of those teams have cap space at all, the amount of assets they’d have to unload to make it work would hurt their teams more then help them. Plus IR65 has a full no movement clause so I don’t know what Grier is thinking other then alienating his best played

 

[themelkman]

If Grier can somehow swing a deal with real value for Karlsson I will forgive most of his moves so far

 

[ChompChomp]

Assuming the talk about EK65 is true, do we all then think that when Grier interviewed for the GM job, he laid out a plan that included trying to get a top pick in the 2023 draft (i.e.., a "soft" tank)?

 

[Gecklund]

Assuming the talk about EK65 is true, do we all then think that when Grier interviewed for the GM job, he laid out a plan that included trying to get a top pick in the 2023 draft (i.e.., a "soft" tank)?

I don’t think so. I think it’s more of he laid out a plan to get out of cap hell. Issue is he sucks at cap management so hopefully some of the guys he brought in will help.

 

[themelkman]

Assuming the talk about EK65 is true, do we all then think that when Grier interviewed for the GM job, he laid out a plan that included trying to get a top pick in the 2023 draft (i.e.., a "soft" tank)?

No, because we already know the top brass did not entertain any rebuild talk when he got the job.

They may have changed opinions now, but I have no doubts he didnt get in with that talk.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I guess my thought is if he wanted out it would have happened this off-season. We are currently outplaying what the expectations were in the off-season. You could clearly tell this team was going no where in the off-season. With so many teams in cap trouble we can say 2M wouldn’t be an issue but it would be for a lot of teams.

Why do you think the first sentence? Is it not possible that he and Grier talked about it but nothing was really out there that was agreeable for Karlsson? Things change when people see how he's playing and that Grier is willing to listen. I don't see it as unrealistic that nobody wanted to pay much of anything for him in the offseason and then have that tune change when he's playing how he is. When it comes to the rentals and retention, I just don't see any of them where that is worth worrying about. I don't see more than one of those guys as worth anything higher than a 2nd with retention. At that point, I don't care if they rent them or let them expire. Like if we couldn't have traded Cogliano for a 5th because he couldn't be retained on then I really don't care. If it happens, okay but I just don't see the maximization of a retention slot elsewhere being worth more than whatever the alternative is trading Karlsson without retaining.

 

[Hodge]

If Grier can somehow swing a deal with real value for Karlsson I will forgive most of his moves so far

Dumping even part of his contract is value enough.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Dumping even part of his contract is value enough.

I don't understand how you come to that conclusion.

 

[Hodge]

I don't understand how you come to that conclusion.

The chances Karlsson is worth even half his cap hit in the final 2-3 years of the contract is close to zero. If you have a chance to move him now, even at 50% retention, without having to attach picks or prospects you do it. The long term cap space this creates alone is worth it not to mention getting rid of Karlsson likely helps the Sharks secure higher first round picks over the next few seasons.