GDT: 2022-23 season game 18 LA Kings vs Calgary Flames @5:00pm 11/14/22

[Statto]

Well, he completely botched two reads specifically leading to goals by moving into the wrong spaces while on the left that opened up passing lanes right smack in the middle of the ice and the third was because his passing angle was limited because he was on the left and he put the puck right into the ref.

So his already poor awareness was compounded by being on his off side and led to three goals.

The problem I have is that your argument only stands up, regarding the first 2 reads, if it wasn’t entirely possible (if not likely) he makes similar mistakes playing on the right. As for the pass he could’ve just made a safe play. I just don’t see that those are errors he wouldn’t have made playing on the right and that’s the bigger issue.

It should however help him offensively on the left.

I say that as someone who would not have him (or Walker) in the lineup. So I’m not defending the coaching decision for the sake of it. as I think the major error is dressing him in the first place.

 

[kings11]

And that type of player needs to be protected so they are not a massive detriment to the team, not played on his off hand with Matt Roy who can't carry anyone with a lacking defensive game. So once again, he's not being put in a position to succeed

He has our best defender with him who gets handicapped with a player like Durzi..
It’s pretty easy to understand what’s happening, every Dman Durzi has played with has struggled with him as a partner but you’re right it’s not his fault he’s so flawed defensively. Who cares if 75% of the time it’s a 5v4 with Durzi on the ice in the defensive end?
What we’re seeing from Durzi is who he is and it’s what he brings. With that said, if you want to utilize his offense then you simply minimize his minutes 5v5 and on the PK and give him as much PP time as humanly possible because that’s where he shines.. seems like we’re averaging 3-4 PP per game, that’s 6-8min of TOI

 

[Statto]

Given our current options I’d play… I’m ignoring the need to waive/trade guys go get here.

Anderson - Doughty
Björnfot - Roy
Edler - Clarke

Then I’d trade Roy in a package for a physical 2nd pair LHD so the right side ends up as Doughty-Clarke-Spence. With Anderson, Björnfot and ??? on the left to start next year. If they can do it this year Edler can be #7.

Granted that D isn’t quite as physical as we’d want but it’d have balance and contribute offensively.

 

[lumbergh]

The problem I have is that your argument only stands up, regarding the first 2 reads, if it wasn’t entirely possible (if not likely) he makes similar mistakes playing on the right. As for the pass he could’ve just made a safe play. I just don’t see that those are errors he wouldn’t have made playing on the right and that’s the bigger issue.

It should however help him offensively on the left.

I say that as someone who would not have him (or Walker) in the lineup. So I’m not defending the coaching decision for the sake of it. as I think the major error is dressing him in the first place.

Durzi doesn't know what a "safe play" is.

 

[lumbergh]

The Kings have to end the Durzi-Roy experiment. It's the Three Stooges out there. Somehow they make each other more accident-prone.

Trade Durzi for a big physical 3rd pairing defenseman, then run this out:

Anderson-Doughty
Clarke-Roy
PhysicalD-Walker/Spence
Edler

Do it Blake!

 

[Sol]

It’s interesting to me how people have more of a problem with Durzi than Roy. Roy is actually a defensive dman and he can’t play defense while Durzi is and Offensive Dman playing on the wrong side. I’d cut Durzi slack and give none to roy.

 

[bland]

The problem I have is that your argument only stands up, regarding the first 2 reads, if it wasn’t entirely possible (if not likely) he makes similar mistakes playing on the right. As for the pass he could’ve just made a safe play. I just don’t see that those are errors he wouldn’t have made playing on the right and that’s the bigger issue.

It should however help him offensively on the left.

I say that as someone who would not have him (or Walker) in the lineup. So I’m not defending the coaching decision for the sake of it. as I think the major error is dressing him in the first place.

As a long time RHD who played the left because 8/10 kids here in SoCal shot right, I can tell you that play happened specifically because he is a right shot on the left side.

If you have the chance to see it again, watch for the way Durzi has his hips aligned. Coming from behind the net on your offside reduces your ability to move the puck on your stronger forehand up the middle or to the right because your hips are at an angle towards boards and not up ice. Unless he takes that split second to open up his hips, which is something only the most talented and confident defenders feel they have the time to do under pressure, his only option is to go along the wall at a more diagonal angle than that of a left shot in those circumstances. A smart, heavy forecheck like the Flames used forced Durzi to either take the second to switch to his weaker backhand for a blind clearance or to put the puck right where he did.

It may be happenstance that it hit the ref, but it was going to be a forced turnover either way.

A left shot coming out from behind the net in that situation has the full range of passes available, all on his stronger forehand.

From experience, the hardest part of playing on your weak side defensively is in that space between the net and the wall downlow, virtually all of your defending and puck moving is more likely to be on your backhand, which has a greater likelihood of turnovers or just lofted clearances without control. Its a disadvantage.

 

[bland]

He has our best defender with him who gets handicapped with a player like Durzi..
It’s pretty easy to understand what’s happening, every Dman Durzi has played with has struggled with him as a partner but you’re right it’s not his fault he’s so flawed defensively. Who cares if 75% of the time it’s a 5v4 with Durzi on the ice in the defensive end?
What we’re seeing from Durzi is who he is and it’s what he brings. With that said, if you want to utilize his offense then you simply minimize his minutes 5v5 and on the PK and give him as much PP time as humanly possible because that’s where he shines.. seems like we’re averaging 3-4 PP per game, that’s 6-8min of TOI

Yup, last night was an exaggerated example because they had so many goals scored on them, but it happens almost every game. The Detroit game was the only one this year where it wasn't a problem. Durzi made poor reads, stepped out of position and created obvious 2 v 1 situations down low. That exposes your partner to very difficult quick decisions leaving them hung out to dry over and over again.

 

[Lt Dan]

The Kings have to end the Durzi-Roy experiment. It's the Three Stooges out there. Somehow they make each other more accident-prone.

Trade Durzi for a big physical 3rd pairing defenseman, then run this out:

Anderson-Doughty
Clarke-Roy
PhysicalD-Walker/Spence
Edler

Do it Blake!

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Clarke playing LD with Roy is not any kind of answer. Clarke is a kid learning to play at the NHL level, he needs to play the position he is comfortable playing

 

[Statto]

As a long time RHD who played the left because 8/10 kids here in SoCal shot right, I can tell you that play happened specifically because he is a right shot on the left side.

If you have the chance to see it again, watch for the way Durzi has his hips aligned. Coming from behind the net on your offside reduces your ability to move the puck on your stronger forehand up the middle or to the right because your hips are at an angle towards boards and not up ice. Unless he takes that split second to open up his hips, which is something only the most talented and confident defenders feel they have the time to do under pressure, his only option is to go along the wall at a more diagonal angle than that of a left shot in those circumstances. A smart, heavy forecheck like the Flames used forced Durzi to either take the second to switch to his weaker backhand for a blind clearance or to put the puck right where he did.

It may be happenstance that it hit the ref, but it was going to be a forced turnover either way.

A left shot coming out from behind the net in that situation has the full range of passes available, all on his stronger forehand.

From experience, the hardest part of playing on your weak side defensively is in that space between the net and the wall downlow, virtually all of your defending and puck moving is more likely to be on your backhand, which has a greater likelihood of turnovers or just lofted clearances without control. Its a disadvantage.

To be fair, I agree with that having coached a righty playing on the left (not the same I realise).

I think with Durzi though, a lot of those errors happen regardless and to your point if he has to make a lofted clearance he he need to do it rather than a very low percentage play. There’s always a concern with his decision making. He does have a decent enough back hand and if we are having a guy play the wrong side he’s the least bad option simply because it probably helps him offensively. It does also help him defend the front of the net, with his strong side protecting the middle; the issues down low I completely agree with.

My fundamental issue is that Durzi is not the list the contains our best 6 blue liners. The rest is just details.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Our defense is more porous than the US /Mexico border

...“And Some, I Assume, Are Good Players”

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

As a long time RHD who played the left because 8/10 kids here in SoCal shot right, I can tell you that play happened specifically because he is a right shot on the left side.

If you have the chance to see it again, watch for the way Durzi has his hips aligned. Coming from behind the net on your offside reduces your ability to move the puck on your stronger forehand up the middle or to the right because your hips are at an angle towards boards and not up ice. Unless he takes that split second to open up his hips, which is something only the most talented and confident defenders feel they have the time to do under pressure, his only option is to go along the wall at a more diagonal angle than that of a left shot in those circumstances. A smart, heavy forecheck like the Flames used forced Durzi to either take the second to switch to his weaker backhand for a blind clearance or to put the puck right where he did.

It may be happenstance that it hit the ref, but it was going to be a forced turnover either way.

A left shot coming out from behind the net in that situation has the full range of passes available, all on his stronger forehand.

From experience, the hardest part of playing on your weak side defensively is in that space between the net and the wall downlow, virtually all of your defending and puck moving is more likely to be on your backhand, which has a greater likelihood of turnovers or just lofted clearances without control. Its a disadvantage.

Hear, hear. I have a soft spot for this situation because I was the other 1/10

 

[21Dog]

Our defense is more porous than the US /Mexico border

The current VP in charge of it disagrees.

 

[kingsfan28]

And that type of player needs to be protected so they are not a massive detriment to the team, not played on his off hand with Matt Roy who can't carry anyone with a lacking defensive game. So once again, he's not being put in a position to succeed. And the lack of a true LD or ideally two to help carry and shoulder the load for the likes of Durzi, Clarke, Sepnce, etc is a massive failure on management

LHD is the unicorn of the nhl. I'm sure Blake has been looking for years, but just can't find one worth putting the assets into. Maata could've been an option [ I can't believe i typed that], but his 2.5 mil contract wouldn't have worked and blocked one of the kids from playing. One, if not more RHD will have to be packaged in a very expensive deal to get one.

 

[AbsentMojo]

He has our best defender with him who gets handicapped with a player like Durzi..
It’s pretty easy to understand what’s happening, every Dman Durzi has played with has struggled with him as a partner but you’re right it’s not his fault he’s so flawed defensively. Who cares if 75% of the time it’s a 5v4 with Durzi on the ice in the defensive end?
What we’re seeing from Durzi is who he is and it’s what he brings. With that said, if you want to utilize his offense then you simply minimize his minutes 5v5 and on the PK and give him as much PP time as humanly possible because that’s where he shines.. seems like we’re averaging 3-4 PP per game, that’s 6-8min of TOI

No one has mentioned this idea: Put Ditzy Durzi with Doughty.. Great offensive instincts + Norris level D...that could be a nice combo with DD already trending as more stay at home puck mover but highly responsible.. DD is really good at settling things and Durzi is the opposite. Push Ando down a pair w Roy to make a pretty solid 2nd pair.

 

[KINGS17]

I got to the game a bit late, and the score was already King 2 Flames 1.

"this is going to be a different game this time," I said to myself

right...

I think when it comes to Calgary the Kings will lose just about any game where Calgary shows up and decides they want to play a physical game. The Kings are riding on the high side now, but there are flaws in the foundation of this team.

 

[lumbergh]

No one has mentioned this idea: Put Ditzy Durzi with Doughty.. Great offensive instincts + Norris level D...that could be a nice combo with DD already trending as more stay at home puck mover but highly responsible.. DD is really good at settling things and Durzi is the opposite. Push Ando down a pair w Roy to make a pretty solid 2nd pair.

This Durzi-Doughty pairing has been seen before, but mostly in the third period of games when the Kings are behind. It has been crazy effective: 8 goals for, 3 goals against in only 69 minutes of even strength time together. High PDO. Excellent possession numbers as well.

I also think Anderson can play effectively away from Doughty. When they're on the ice together, Anderson almost entirely defers to Doughty with the puck. It might help Anderson develop an actual identity to get time away from Doughty.

Never gonna happen, though. Anderson will be stapled to Doughty's hip for the foreseeable future.

 

[AbsentMojo]

This Durzi-Doughty pairing has been seen before, but mostly in the third period of games when the Kings are behind. It has been crazy effective: 8 goals for, 3 goals against in only 69 minutes of even strength time together. High PDO. Excellent possession numbers as well.

I also think Anderson can play effectively away from Doughty. When they're on the ice together, Anderson almost entirely defers to Doughty with the puck. It might help Anderson develop an actual identity to get time away from Doughty.

Never gonna happen, though. Anderson will be stapled to Doughty's hip for the foreseeable future.

Interesting numbers there.. and good point about developing Anderson more away form DD. The more I think about, I think that could be the solution to the woes on D until moves can be made.

 

[YAYSAY]

Interesting numbers there.. and good point about developing Anderson more away form DD. The more I think about, I think that could be the solution to the woes on D until moves can be made.

Certainly worth trying in a game where the Kings get totally dominated for most of it...like last night. Can't believe the D pairs remained the same even though the D was the problem for most of the goals against.

 

[kings11]

No one has mentioned this idea: Put Ditzy Durzi with Doughty.. Great offensive instincts + Norris level D...that could be a nice combo with DD already trending as more stay at home puck mover but highly responsible.. DD is really good at settling things and Durzi is the opposite. Push Ando down a pair w Roy to make a pretty solid 2nd pair.

Correct me if im wrong but I’m pretty sure we’ve seen that for a few shifts and it was just as bad… granted that’s a small sample size

 

[AbsentMojo]

Correct me if im wrong but I’m pretty sure we’ve seen that for a few shifts and it was just as bad… granted that’s a small sample size

Someone earlier in this thread posted some numbers that showed it was working.. but again small sample size.. Dont you think its worth a shot given how things are going? I think its got some upside because if u have to play Durzi big minutes, then who better to make for his gaffes than DD

 

[kings11]

Someone earlier in this thread posted some numbers that showed it was working.. but again small sample size.. Dont you think its worth a shot given how things are going? I think its got some upside because if u have to play Durzi big minutes, then who better to make for his gaffes than DD

But then comes the negative we’ve all been talking about.. he’d reduce DD’s effectiveness since he’d have to shift some of his focus toward Durzi’s likely gaffes. Shit, at this point, I’d try him at forward.. and yes, I’m being serious

 

[lumbergh]

Correct me if im wrong but I’m pretty sure we’ve seen that for a few shifts and it was just as bad… granted that’s a small sample size

Look at my post on this page, where I tell you that the Durzi-Doughty combo has been dominant.

 

[Kurrilino]

And that type of player needs to be protected so they are not a massive detriment to the team, not played on his off hand with Matt Roy who can't carry anyone with a lacking defensive game. So once again, he's not being put in a position to succeed. And the lack of a true LD or ideally two to help carry and shoulder the load for the likes of Durzi, Clarke, Sepnce, etc is a massive failure on management

Well, the job of a defender is to prevent goals.
The player contributing to the offense is bonus but not required.

Durzi has it the other way around.
Neither Durzi or Spence have a strong enough offense that i would build my defense around them.
Actually neither of them would be on my team