2022/23 Roster Thread III: Run It Back!

[Maurice of Orange]

Today on "people arguing with themselves...."

 

[PALE PWNR]

How good do you think 35 year old Giroux is going to be?
In all sports, fans tend to resist accepting that their favorites are aging.
But age curves don't lie. Time to move on.

It'll be a different team this year, let's see what Torts can do with these young players.

A lot better than anyone on this roster! Both from a production standpoint and otherwise. He was the team's leader, and best player.

Don't forget they tossed away Lindblom with nothing to replace him. The roster has gotten worse than it was last year, which should have been hard to do.

Oh right, they moved on from Lindblom, a stout defensive winger that could also provide some offensive scoring depth for a plug that will get punched in the face a lot and to bring back Justin Braun. I also won't forget that they brought in a skilled offensive defensemen that is atrocious in his own zone to play on the top pairing as well.

 

[Beef Invictus]

A lot better than anyone on this roster! Both from a production standpoint and otherwise. He was the team's leader, and best player.


Oh right, they moved on from Lindblom, a stout defensive winger that could also provide some offensive scoring depth for a plug that will get punched in the face a lot and to bring back Justin Braun. I also won't forget that they brought in a skilled offensive defensemen that is atrocious in his own zone to play on the top pairing as well.

He is compelled to disagree because anything else is a tacit admission that Fletcher handled the situation terribly. So the solution is to downplay the player and pretend it doesn't matter much

 

[deadhead]

Let's rebuild! But don't let G go, and pay JG oddles of money.
Some people here sound as confused as the FO!

They got good value for G, some people had ridiculous expectations that didn't jibe with actual trade history, an asset like 34 year old Giroux is not going to get you a huge return. I said before he was traded, a 1st, "B prospect" and another asset. Because that was the historic price for a very good but not elite player at the TDL.

At 35, paying him $6.75M or so made no sense, we're better off with Tippett, the two draft picks and the extensions for Couts and Farabee. This year is about player evaluation and implementing Tort's system. Even if they're competitive by 2024-25, what do you think G would contribute at 37 years old?

It's hard to evaluate the current personnel off the last two seasons, too much chaos.
The worst mistake you can make is sell a player low before you're certain that's a true read.
I'll withhold judgment until I see them play - but Farabee and TK have shown they can score at a top 50 rate in the past.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They got bad value for Giroux. Fletcher chose to.

Is choosing to get bad value for Giroux good management?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Yay total misrepresentations of what people are saying in order to defend a pathetic excuse of a man at every turn!

 

[LegionOfGloom]

Why do you guys insist on responding to him. Just add him to the ignore list and stop letting him dominate every conversation.

 

[deadhead]

They got bad value for Giroux. Fletcher chose to.

Is choosing to get bad value for Giroux good management?

Really, show me some comparables.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Really, show me some comparables.

How about the annual list of inferior players getting better returns? You've been shown the comparables repeatedly, were you not paying attention?

That would explain why you think Fletcher hasnt made win-now moves and believes the team isn't going to contend.

 

[deadhead]

How about the annual list of inferior players getting better returns? You've been shown the comparables repeatedly, were you not paying attention?

That would explain why you think Fletcher hasnt made win-now moves and believes the team isn't going to contend.

No one has shown me a good TDL comparable. Just BS.

 

[Flyerfan18]

FWIW, the Athletic graded all 32 teams and how did they did in free agency.

The Flyers got an F. Only one other team got an F - the Minnesota Wild.

Philadelphia Flyers: F​

The Flyers didn’t merely miss out Gaudreau, the local superstar and top free agent on the market who long had been rumored to have Philadelphia as his top choice. They weren’t even realistically in the mix due to Chuck Fletcher’s inability to adequately prepare from a cap-space standpoint or clear out a contract or two. So what did Fletcher do? He brought back Justin Braun to be a cheap third-pair defenseman and signed a 31-year-old enforcer in Nicolas Deslauriers to a four-year contract. Braun isn’t an upgrade since he already was in Philadelphia for most of the 2021-22 season, and Deslauriers is an intangibles add to a team that already has Rasmus Ristolainen and Zack MacEwenfor essentially the same purpose. The Flyers had the fourth-worst record in hockey last season, and unless their big swing on Tony DeAngelo bears fruit and doesn’t blow up in their face, it’s unclear if they’re actually any better than they were in 2021-22. Yikes. — Charlie O’Connor

You gotta take that with a grain of salt. It was the team’s individual writers who ranked the grade. Charlie clearly wanted Gaudreau or a big move and is salty about it. Just saying. The non moves deserve a better grade.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No one has shown me a good TDL comparable. Just BS.

Ah, you're doing the thing where you just pretend reality isn't real.

When that's what it takes to keep defending Fletcher it says a lot.

 

[Flyerfan18]

They got bad value for Giroux. Fletcher chose to.

Is choosing to get bad value for Giroux good management?

No they got a solid return. G gave one option. So just admit you are out to lunch and move on. You lost this argument with anyone logical the first time you attempted to make it. A first round pick and solid prospect is a good return. To argue otherwise just makes you look foolish

 

[Beef Invictus]

No they got a solid return. G gave one option. So just admit you are out to lunch and move on. You lost this argument with anyone logical the first time you attempted to make it. A first round pick and solid prospect is a good return. To argue otherwise just makes you look foolish

G would have given more options. Fletcher refused to be given more options. Is that good management?

 

[deadhead]

You gotta take that with a grain of salt. It was the team’s individual writers who ranked the grade. Charlie clearly wanted Gaudreau or a big move and is salty about it. Just saying. The non moves deserve a better grade.

No, they deserve a F.
Forget JG, cutting Lindblom to use his money to sign Deslauriers when you're reloading/rebuilding is stupid.
And the other additions were basically AHL depth players. Which is good for the Phantoms but . . .

TDA was a good gamble, but they didn't even sell it as that: "yes, we know he's a headcase who is flawed defensively, but is an elite offensive player, so we want to see if Torts can raise his game."

No direction. No plan.

Braun was the only decent move they made, a cheap veteran to be a mentor on a team where Provorov is the most experienced defenseman.

G would have given more options. Fletcher refused to be given more options. Is that good management?

Wouldn't have mattered, who was offering a "A prospect?"
Not Colorado, Byrum and Newhook were off the table. Who else?
So maybe you upgrade the 3rd to a 2nd, that's about the best you could hope for.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

You gotta take that with a grain of salt. It was the team’s individual writers who ranked the grade. Charlie clearly wanted Gaudreau or a big move and is salty about it. Just saying. The non moves deserve a better grade.

Charlie’s said on multiple occasions the Flyers should be rebuilding. But the Flyers aren’t acceptant of that. So in that sense they should have gone for Gaudreau. If you’re plan is to be competitive & that’s the roster you’re going with then yeah you deserve an F.

 

[deadhead]

I think Fletcher wants to rebuild, he's just being passive aggressive in his approach.
The AV thing totally blew up, so they got a HC with a history of turning around young teams, TB, CBJ.
They sold at the trade deadline, they failed to buy this summer.
The Risto thing - I'm curious what really went down in the FO over that. Didn't make a lick of sense not to trade him.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

John le Carré didn’t ask you to connect this many dots.

He signed players because he likes them. He kept players because he likes them. If he likes them because he’s listening to the wrong people, he’s still bad at his job.

If he didn’t put the right people in place to advise him, that’s his fault. If he’s choosing the wrong advisors to listen to, that’s his fault. If Dave Scott wouldn’t listen to him, it’s his fault for not convincing him. That’s the job. Do it or get out.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Charlie’s said on multiple occasions the Flyers should be rebuilding. But the Flyers aren’t acceptant of that. So in that sense they should have gone for Gaudreau. If you’re plan is to be competitive & that’s the roster you’re going with then yeah you deserve an F.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, they deserve a F.
Forget JG, cutting Lindblom to use his money to sign Deslauriers when you're reloading/rebuilding is stupid.
And the other additions were basically AHL depth players. Which is good for the Phantoms but . . .

TDA was a good gamble, but they didn't even sell it as that: "yes, we know he's a headcase who is flawed defensively, but is an elite offensive player, so we want to see if Torts can raise his game."

No direction. No plan.

Braun was the only decent move they made, a cheap veteran to be a mentor on a team where Provorov is the most experienced defenseman.


Wouldn't have mattered, who was offering a "A prospect?"
Not Colorado, Byrum and Newhook were off the table. Who else?
So maybe you upgrade the 3rd to a 2nd, that's about the best you could hope for.

Good GMs get those prospects. There are choices besides "lose trade" that can be made. Fletcher is just incapable of making them.


Is being incapable of winning any move good management?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I think Fletcher wants to rebuild, he's just being passive aggressive in his approach.
The AV thing totally blew up, so they got a HC with a history of turning around young teams, TB, CBJ.
They sold at the trade deadline, they failed to buy this summer.
The Risto thing - I'm curious what really went down in the FO over that. Didn't make a lick of sense not to trade him.

You think these things because stating anything other then this (recognizing reality) would require you to admit that you were wrong and you just can’t handle that.

 

[FlyerNutter]

O'Connor is definitely pro rebuild. Some of his takes I do disagree with, but his overall direction for the team to take is a smart one.

I'll also say that I'm happy he was the one at the presser with Chuck. Not a lot of the others would have even dared to approach Fletcher with such questions - that weren't that extreme to begin with. He helped make Fletcher look like a fool, good on him.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Every time that milquetoast man opens his mouth and opines about Niskanen, he’s telling you he can’t find a positive since then.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Every time that milquetoast man opens his mouth and opines about Niskanen, he’s telling you he can’t find a positive since then.

If your plan completely hinged on one player & one in their mid 30’s at that. It wasn’t a good plan to begin with.

It almost would have been better if Niskanen came back that year & played like shit so the excuse would have died. Niskanen without a shadow of a doubt played at a high level that year after multiple years before that of being not so good. But what if it was just a one off?

 

[deadhead]

You think these things because stating anything other then this (recognizing reality) would require you to admit that you were wrong and you just can’t handle that.

You can believe me, because I never lie, and. I'm always right.