GDT: 2022-23 NHL Playoffs

[CapitalsCupReality]

Also, Pannarin has been invisible out there. 2 assists thru 5 games.

Trying to create chemistry among Pannarin, Kane and Tarasenko - all guys who need others to get them the puck and create space for them - is looking more challenging than they expected

Zibanejad as well…..it’s not limited to the 2 new guys…

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

There isn't one.

Holtby got worse.

Vanecek was (slightly) better after moving.

Samsonov was better after moving.

Kuemper got worse since arriving here.

It's not even about making goalie elite. Not all goalies have potential to be that. But to me it's alarming that nobody improves here.

I don’t see it that way at all. VV and Sammy both improved enough to become NHL goalies here.
Hell, VV everyone expected him to be an AHL starter…..they are both now once again showing their ceilings (as we already knew, or at least in my case, fully expected them to show they are decent goalies propped up by talented rosters in the regular season).

Holtby was aging poorly and failing….DK had a shit team in massive flux in front of him and still played lights out at times.

 

[StrikingDistance]

Murray took over in 2017-18. That was also the year that Braden Holtby took a nosedive into the Atlantic, and Mitch Korn had to be dragged out of semi-retirement to fix Holtby. Fortunately Korn did fix Holtby for that playoff run.

Holtby continued to struggle under Murray in the following two seasons.

Scott Murray is not a good goaltending coach.

LOL @ Korn fixing Holtby for the playoffs. Sorry, that's revisionist history.

Wasn't Holtby on 2 more teams? I liked him...probably the last good goalie we had.

Looks like he had a perfect season in 2023.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

LOL @ Korn fixing Holtby for the playoffs. Sorry, that's revisionist history.

Wasn't Holtby on 2 more teams? I liked him...probably the last good goalie we had.

Looks like he had a perfect season in 2023.

Seriously….dude lost his job, then the other guy lost it back and he rallied with a hot streak of a lifetime that we will all forever be grateful for.

 

[Calicaps]

I don’t see it that way at all. VV and Sammy both improved enough to become NHL goalies here.
Hell, VV everyone expected him to be an AHL starter…..they are both now once again showing their ceilings (as we already knew, or at least in my case, fully expected them to show they are decent goalies propped up by talented rosters in the regular season).

Holtby was aging poorly and failing….DK had a shit team in massive flux in front of him and still played lights out at times.

All of this. And Kuemper was fantastic early on before getting hurt. His decline lined up with the injury and the team cratering. But he was mostly finding his game toward the end of the season. And Chuckie was ridiculously good for a spell there. Why is that not attributed to Murray, but his later struggles are?

 

[Hivemind]

LOL @ Korn fixing Holtby for the playoffs. Sorry, that's revisionist history.

Wasn't Holtby on 2 more teams? I liked him...probably the last good goalie we had.

Looks like he had a perfect season in 2023.

What about that is revisionist history? Holtby lost his starting job to Grubauer and was playing terribly. In early March 2018, the Capitals got Mitch Korn to return to the team on a daily basis to fix Holtby. Holtby reclaimed his starting job in the playoffs. It's literally what happened.

Then compare the following two seasons of Holtby under Murray without Korn - and his relative lack of performance compared to his time with Korn (and his career-worst sv% in 2019-20).

Not to mention Holtby was solid for Dallas last year before injuries sidelined him (which is also why he had the 2023 season you're lampooning him for).

Once again, name a single goalie who has played their best hockey under Scott Murray. You can't do it, because none have. Scott Murray is a shitty goalie coach.

 

[g00n]

something something correlation something something causation

 

[YippieKaey]

It's not rocket science to connect the dots. He's procured the services of a particular agency and her employer is holding onto her passport. IF what she says is the truth.

And yeah, there is no way in hell he's out of the lineup for any reason OTHER than this one. Let's not be so naive...

You thinking mailorder bride? I don't follow here.

 

[John Price]

 

[twabby]

Zibanejad as well…..it’s not limited to the 2 new guys…

For sure, which is why getting those two new guys (Kane and Tarasenko) was all the more puzzling. None of these guys are the types of players that really complement each other very well, at least at 5v5. All four of Zibanejad, Panarin, Kane, and Tarasenko are below average to way below defensive players that don't really drive offense overall. They're a very opportunistic bunch. Nino Niederreiter would have been a better fit and would have been cheaper, for instance. I'm sure other guys were available that would have been cheap and been better fits too.

And outside of Adam Fox their D isn't really anything good either. K'Andre Miller is ok I guess but nothing to write home about. The rest of their D is kind of cruddy and is constantly bailed out by Shesterkin. I mentioned it earlier but the Rangers really could have used a guy like Nick Jensen. It would have been a much better use of a first round pick than Tarasenko, if that's what it would have taken for MacLellan to let Jensen go. Trouba is a bottom pairing guy being forced into the top 4 while Jensen would have slotted in perfectly on the second pair with Miller.

Again I'm not complaining, and the series isn't over yet. But some of these issues were foreseeable at the time. It also doesn't help that I don't think they match up well against the Devils. I think the Rangers would have done much better against the Hurricanes as I think they are better suited to cycling, heavy forechecking teams rather than teams that feast on transition like the Devils.

 

[StrikingDistance]

What about that is revisionist history? Holtby lost his starting job to Grubauer and was playing terribly. In early March 2018, the Capitals got Mitch Korn to return to the team on a daily basis to fix Holtby. Holtby reclaimed his starting job in the playoffs. It's literally what happened.

Then compare the following two seasons of Holtby under Murray without Korn - and his relative lack of performance compared to his time with Korn (and his career-worst sv% in 2019-20).

Not to mention Holtby was solid for Dallas last year before injuries sidelined him (which is also why he had the 2023 season you're lampooning him for).

Once again, name a single goalie who has played their best hockey under Scott Murray. You can't do it, because none have. Scott Murray is a shitty goalie coach.

Bolded for your revisionism: Korn was Dir of Goaltending 2017/2018 and not doing the day to day that year because Murray was the Goalie coach. Maybe that helped lead to Holtby's decline? Korn wasn't working with the him daily. He didn't 'step in' and save the day from Murray.

Soooo where did I proclaim Murray a good goalie coach? Never. I think everyone should post their SAT or GRE Reading Comprehension scores. haha Holy shit...

All I said was (basically): Goalie development is part coach and part player. It appears the players have been average (+/-) a hot streak here and there. Holtby was performing below average in 2018 (.907 RS) and lost his job to Gruby. In the 1st round, Gruby loses 2 games to the BJs. Enter Holtby. IRCC, in Game 3, Caps got lucky twice in both OT periods. BJ's hit a post in the 1st OT, and then a puck that Holtby didn't see hit his handle in the 2nd OT. That game could of easily been loss #3. He did make saves later on when we needed him and his .922 (slight above career avg .915) in the POs was enough to help us win the cup. Great. Still, there are reasons why the Caps 'parted ways' with him, Sammy, and VV and kept Murray.

Maybe Korn could of done better with Sammy, VV, etc? We'll never know. Can't squeeze blood from stone.

PS....Holtby's 2018 SV% .907 vs his .897 in 2020. Both underwhelming and don't support your argument.

Thanks for the entertainment! Back to bed...

 

[HTFN]

I'm surprised some of you don't remember that already because that's almost exactly how it happened. Holtby was breaking down technically a lot and overplaying pucks (sound familiar?) after Korn stepped back into that hands-off Director of Goaltending (or whatever) position. The team (or Trotz) very clearly needed something from Korn that Murray couldn't deliver and they brought him back into the day-to-day coaching to fix Holtby for the playoffs.

Korn came back to whisper his whispers, Holtby channeled a form he would never see again, and then Korn waltzed off with Trotz to do the same thing to Varlamov. Do we know what makes him a good coach? Not exactly. My impressions have always been that his drills are innovative, he has a knack for identifying the small underlying things a goalie does that betrays his technique and an instinct for tweaking them to build a more stable and consistent platform for their daily performance without breaking other parts of their game.

Korn goalies don't often seem to be working on the wrong thing. Visible weaknesses tend to improve, pushy goalies calm down a little, holes get shored up a bit. I don't remember seeing or feeling the same about Samsonov or really any Caps goalie since.

 

[HTFN]

Bolded for your revisionism: Korn was Dir of Goaltending 2017/2018 and not doing the day to day that year because Murray was the Goalie coach. Maybe that helped lead to Holtby's decline? Korn wasn't working with the him daily. He didn't 'step in' and save the day from Murray.

Kind of sounds like that's exactly what that would mean, doesn't it? They took a top 5/10 goalie under Korn with three straight .920+ Sv% seasons just prior and tore his game up over the year, he looked like shit and it was getting to him mentally, which has always been a big Holtby thing.

So... they called Korn back in to fix him just in time for the playoffs. Grubauer got the start, which I insist to this day sheltered Holtby's head space a little and also alleviated some pressure, and then the Holtby who came back looked like the Bruinsbane everyone remembered with his chance and the rest is history.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

For sure, which is why getting those two new guys (Kane and Tarasenko) was all the more puzzling. None of these guys are the types of players that really complement each other very well, at least at 5v5. All four of Zibanejad, Panarin, Kane, and Tarasenko are below average to way below defensive players that don't really drive offense overall. They're a very opportunistic bunch. Nino Niederreiter would have been a better fit and would have been cheaper, for instance. I'm sure other guys were available that would have been cheap and been better fits too.

And outside of Adam Fox their D isn't really anything good either. K'Andre Miller is ok I guess but nothing to write home about. The rest of their D is kind of cruddy and is constantly bailed out by Shesterkin. I mentioned it earlier but the Rangers really could have used a guy like Nick Jensen. It would have been a much better use of a first round pick than Tarasenko, if that's what it would have taken for MacLellan to let Jensen go. Trouba is a bottom pairing guy being forced into the top 4 while Jensen would have slotted in perfectly on the second pair with Miller.

Again I'm not complaining, and the series isn't over yet. But some of these issues were foreseeable at the time. It also doesn't help that I don't think they match up well against the Devils. I think the Rangers would have done much better against the Hurricanes as I think they are better suited to cycling, heavy forechecking teams rather than teams that feast on transition like the Devils.

This is always the risk of “going for it”……GMBM has been very vocal on the past about this, saying he prefers to get guys in earlier….sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn’t. Rangers will be short term labeled choking dogs for losing this series….

 

[Hivemind]

Bolded for your revisionism: Korn was Dir of Goaltending 2017/2018 and not doing the day to day that year because Murray was the Goalie coach. Maybe that helped lead to Holtby's decline? Korn wasn't working with the him daily. He didn't 'step in' and save the day from Murray.

Korn was indeed the director of goaltending in 2017-18. Korn did return to day-to-day work with Braden Holtby following Holtby's terrible stretch in early March. His job title didn't change, but he was tasked with working with Holtby and rebuilding his confidence. So, yes, Korn did "save the day" when it comes to Holtby's play.

This isn't revisionist history. This is just plain history.

PS....Holtby's 2018 SV% .907 vs his .897 in 2020. Both underwhelming and don't support your argument.

Both of those seasons were under Murray... so yes, they do support my argument.

Still, there are reasons why the Caps 'parted ways' with him, Sammy, and VV and kept Murray.

Ahhh, yes, the good ole appeal to authority argument.

 

[twabby]

This is always the risk of “going for it”……GMBM has been very vocal on the past about this, saying he prefers to get guys in earlier….sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn’t. Rangers will be short term labeled choking dogs for losing this series….

You can go for it by addressing true needs though. A lot of people didn’t really care for the Kane and Tarasenko additions at the time they were made, so it’s not even really revisionist history to say those moves were questionable at best.

I’d argue Edmonton went for it by trading for Mattias Ekholm but unlike the Rangers they truly addressed a need. And even though he hasn’t scored yet this postseason I’d argue the Timo Meier acquisition in NJ was much more targeted and impactful than the Kane/Tarasenko additions.

 

[PlushMinus]

You thinking mailorder bride? I don't follow here.

Call girl, or whatever word you want to use

 

[Raikkonen]

Let's go Panthers!

 

[marcel snapshot]

That Pasternak goal was spectacular

 

[twabby]

Goal getting called back because of a finger pass.

 

[ClevelandCapsfan]

That Pasternak goal was spectacular

 

[usiel]

One one late in the 3rd for the Isles/Car. I hope every game tonight ends up going for 7 heh.

 

[Marshall]

Maybe I'm spoiled by seeing Orlov so long, but that kinda looked a like a good hipcheck to me...

 

[usiel]

Florida's passive PK is super lame.

 

[twabby]

Maybe I'm spoiled by seeing Orlov so long, but that kinda looked a like a good hipcheck to me...

It was really late and very close to the knees