henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
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Not really... when Duchene lost some steps, that hurt him and his ability to play center at the highest level... but Duchene's issues were more about IQ than anything else.
Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency (Mod Warning in OP)
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The Abusement Park
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- Jan 18, 2016
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Newhook won't be that good. Duchene had elite tools and was a legit 1st line player albeit an average one.
A lot of people here have forgotten what regular season JTC looks like. You really want to watch him be the 2C all the way to the deadline? Is that gonna be a fun time for anyone? Ugh...
Something else we haven't discussed much is the loss of Bura. I know we all soured on him a bit at the end, but he still put up 61 points last season (22G,39A), and I don't think we really have a way to make up for both he, and Kadri's production. Newhook is obviously going to get his shot at it, but does anyone think he gets 60 plus?
Everyone said we couldn't trade G because we were going to lose Manson. Well, we kept Manson, so G really is the odd-man out, and the best solution to our problem. We are losing roughly 60-80 points from Kadri, and 50-60 points from Bura. Not to mention that Kadri was our go to faceoff guy.
Trade G for a 2C! We need it. There is no way around it with internal options.
Something else we haven't discussed much is the loss of Bura. I know we all soured on him a bit at the end, but he still put up 61 points last season (22G,39A), and I don't think we really have a way to make up for both he, and Kadri's production. Newhook is obviously going to get his shot at it, but does anyone think he gets 60 plus?
Everyone said we couldn't trade G because we were going to lose Manson. Well, we kept Manson, so G really is the odd-man out, and the best solution to our problem. We are losing roughly 60-80 points from Kadri, and 50-60 points from Bura. Not to mention that Kadri was our go to faceoff guy.
Trade G for a 2C! We need it. There is no way around it with internal options.
shadow1
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It'll definitely be a mess. Compher will play there and frustrate us, Rantanen will play there, Meyers and Newhook will get cracks. It's going to be the talking point of the season, for sure.
As far as Burakovsky goes, I think Lehkonen is the replacement.
I don't know if he can put up 60 points, but he scored 23 in his first 36 games with Colorado (regular+playoff), which is a 52 point pace.
John Mandalorian
2022 Avs: The First Dance
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Richard88
John 3:16
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It's certainly possible Lehkonen replaces a lot of Burakovsky's production.
He has 14 goals and 23 points in 36 games with us last year. That's a 32G, 52 point pace.
And JTC, if he ends up the 2C( I don't think we're done yet by any means) is in a contract year and will be playing with top 6 talent. He could just as easily pot 40-50 points as well if he also a full 82 games.
That will be plenty good enough to get us through to the deadline where no doubt our 1st round pick will be used to bolster the Top 6.
His production probably goes up a little, playing with Nuke and Lehk, but I doubt it's more than 45-50 points.
The Abusement Park
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Necas really isn't suited for the Canes play style. I think he's got some similarities to Bura where he's a very toolsy guy, but the question is can he put it together and utilize those tools? I definitely don't think he can at C, but he'd be a lot better here or somewhere like FLA on the wing imo.
Richard88
John 3:16
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Lehkonen should pot 45-50 points with Burakovsky's ice time on the 2nd line, while providing better overall impact.
2C is still unresolved but that can be fixed without spiting the defense. (Eg. TDL trade for JT Miller). Also, JTC in a contract year will have all the motivation he needs to put an extra shift in for a few months (as we just saw with Kadri).
The Abusement Park
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If JT is the C next year, you have to play him with Lehks and Rants. Sure hope that isn't the case though.
Richard88
John 3:16
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45-50 points is a passable level for a 2C. We've just been spoiled with Kadri having a 1C career year which created false expectations for 2C production.
Raucherhusten
Unselfish Gif Lover
With the current roster - that's the best we can do.
But i also think we're not done yet. 6ish weeks or so til' training camp.
Still more than enough time for "stuff" to happen.
Yep, and ppl forget that Kadri was kind of meh in his first 2 years with the Avs.
We are fine, with or without him.
Richard88
John 3:16
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There's definitely an element of him not suiting their fling-everything-at-the-net style. That said, are there are any redeeming underlying metrics that would pique the Avs interest despite mediocre stats overall, like Burakovsky's good zone exit/entry stats with Washington that indicated that he could be a good fit with the Avs?
Yeah 45-50 is like the most optimistic scenario. But remember, it's JTC. Just because it's a contract year, it doesn't mean he's gonna step up. Plus, Nuke and Lehk really deserve someone better on that line.
I'd rather move Rants to center if we aren't going to make a trade.
Landy - Mack - Newhook
Lehk - Rants - Nuke
or
Landy - MacK - Nuke
Lehk - Rants - Newhook
Yeah, remember it's JTC. An actually good player.
Hilarious how people still hate this guy.
Richard88
John 3:16
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Yeah Kadri paced ~52 points his first two seasons with the Avs. That was on the back of 44 and 55 point seasons with Toronto. He only surpassed 50 points twice in his career prior to his last season which was clearly an outlier.
The Kingslayer
Registered User
Whenever I watch Necas play it seems like hes his own worse enemy. Gets into prime scoring positions and makes a bad pass. Has a 3 on 1 and makes a bad shot. Zigs when he should Zag. I like him as a player. Maybe he needs to get out of Carolina like Lindholm.
Good bottom 6 player, yes.
2C on a team that wants to win another cup? I seriously doubt it.
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I think people also need to remember that we can’t compare the playoff roster to the 22-23 opening night roster.
That’s not feasible nor realistic. That playoff team would’ve never fit under the cap.
For reference, here’s our roster in a game against Philly pre trade deadline:
Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Nichushkin - Kadri - Burakovsky
Aube-Kubel - Newhook - O'Connor
Megna - Jost - Helm
Toews - Makar
J. Johnson - Girard
MacDermid - E. Johnson
There’s no question we have the hole at 2C. But we still have cap room, and some assets to try to address that.
But we’ll be starting this season with a much better D.
That’s not feasible nor realistic. That playoff team would’ve never fit under the cap.
For reference, here’s our roster in a game against Philly pre trade deadline:
Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Nichushkin - Kadri - Burakovsky
Aube-Kubel - Newhook - O'Connor
Megna - Jost - Helm
Toews - Makar
J. Johnson - Girard
MacDermid - E. Johnson
There’s no question we have the hole at 2C. But we still have cap room, and some assets to try to address that.
But we’ll be starting this season with a much better D.
henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
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Yup... he's a very low IQ player with a crap ton of tools. If he can ever process the game, the physical skill set is there to be a top line guy. Players as big and as fast as he is shouldn't have the hand talent he does. Dude just can't process the game and that is usually a bad sign.
Richard88
John 3:16
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Compher has paced 0.5ppg for most of the last 3 years including playoffs, which over a full 82 game season is ~40 points.
Staying healthy has been his issue as he's usually missed 10-15 games per season which is why his points totals have ended up around 30-35. But that's still ~0.5ppg pace.
With that PPG it's not that outlandish to expect him to put up an extra ~10 points with an increase in minutes, even if he still misses a few games, especially as he'd be playing with vastly better players in Lehkonen and Rantanen than the bottom 6 players he's usually played with (eg. Jost, Comeau, Donskoi, NAK, etc).
For the record I've been a critic previously, but he did have a good postseason, and contract years are definitely a thing, so it's not hard to see how the Avs front office can convince themselves that he's a viable option at 2C for a few months until the TDL.
The Abusement Park
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Which is also a valid point. I mean last year regardless of his underlying stats showed he can be a productive player at minimum, especially considering he wasn’t relying on a shooting bender or anything. I do think his play style certainly is more conducive to a rush style team, but the red flags are there that it won’t translate, at least not a to contending level team.
Just tell me one thing. Is JTC at 2C going to get us another cup? We're about cups now aren't we?
henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
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Points are really only one part of being a 2C... especially on the Avs where they tend to run a top group of 5 and then everyone else gets rotated. Compher defensively and with heavy faceoff responsibility for ~18+ minutes a game is far more of an issue than him putting up 45 points. I think he's perfectly capable of 45 points... it is literally everything else that concerns me.
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