Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency (Mod Warning in OP)

[Bill Peckerskull]

So, SJ is on the hook for $2.5M per for the next 3 years and will have to take a cap hit % of it as well?

 

[Chiarelli]

I would be giving byram minimal PP time. He can fill in for injuries that’s it. Keep those numbers down we need to sign him cheap as possible. Also inflate Toews as much as possible and ditch his ass next summer cuz you won’t be signing him to his next deal.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

He got worse?

10 points (plus 5) in his last 14 games is worse? Righto then. That's 60 odd point pace mate (extrapolated). He then followed that up with 4 points (plus / minus even) in 12 physical, demanding, skillful playoff games. The 21 year old kid hasn't even played 82 regular season games yet as a player !! We'll have to agree to disagree here, sorry mate - and I respect your opinion a lot.

Same goes with your take on King Bo. In my view, he'll become a top 5 D-man in the entire league if he can remain healthy. Kid has every tool in his kit bag. There are zero flaws.

See that's the funny thing about small samples sizes, we can manipulate them to whatever way we want.

What about the 10 games before that when he didn't record a single point? Or the 6 games to end the season where he went pointless in 5/6?

From the Trade deadline onward he had 12 points in 28 games. Outside of one very small stretch of about 8 games, he did nothing.

But more importantly than rudimentary stats like points and +/-(I mean come on, you're better then +/- by now aren't you?), he wasn't contributing on the ice. His individual expected goals were low, his defensive game suffered, his individual scoring chances declined, he only averages 1.5 shots per game...


He absolutely struggled down the stretch. It was a contributing factor in why he was a healthy scratch for the start of the playoffs.

 

[bromando]

See that's the funny thing about small samples sizes, we can manipulate them to whatever way we want.

What about the 10 games before that when he didn't record a single point? Or the 6 games to end the season where he went pointless in 5/6?

From the Trade deadline onward he had 12 points in 28 games. Outside of one very small stretch of about 8 games, he did nothing.

But more importantly than rudimentary stats like points and +/-(I mean come on, you're better then +/- by now aren't you?), he wasn't contributing on the ice. His individual expected goals were low, his defensive game suffered, his individual scoring chances declined, he only averages 1.5 shots per game...


He absolutely struggled down the stretch. It was a contributing factor in why he was a healthy scratch for the start of the playoffs.

I’m curious since you are debating these players pretty consistently, where do you think Newhook and Bo end up at their peaks? What is your projection for them? From my impression you’ve been pretty down on both relative to many others but perhaps you still think they’re good quality and just disagree with seasonal assessments of them?

FTR i think a healthy Bo is one of the best dmen in the league as soon as next year but maybe a couple years time. Newhook I’m mixed on. I can see him plateau pretty hard but he flashes some elite skill so it’s about him putting it together. Feels a bit more raw and hard to pin but I’d guess he ends up a good middle sixer but not necessarily a sure fire 2nd liner.

 

[Richard88]

What about Jake Vitanen as a PTO?

Dude got railroaded by some false accusations but is a legit power forward. He could be a nice flyer the same as when we signed Nichushkin.

Do you think he would survive Bednar's preseason bag skates?

 

[Metallo]

So, SJ is on the hook for $2.5M per for the next 3 years and will have to take a cap hit % of it as well?

Well done Sharts!

 

[The Abusement Park]

I’m curious since you are debating these players pretty consistently, where do you think Newhook and Bo end up at their peaks? What is your projection for them? From my impression you’ve been pretty down on both relative to many others but perhaps you still think they’re good quality and just disagree with seasonal assessments of them?

FTR i think a healthy Bo is one of the best dmen in the league as soon as next year but maybe a couple years time. Newhook I’m mixed on. I can see him plateau pretty hard but he flashes some elite skill so it’s about him putting it together. Feels a bit more raw and hard to pin but I’d guess he ends up a good middle sixer but not necessarily a sure fire 2nd liner.

I think with Newhook there’s very obvious top 6 talent there. Is he a top 6 talent at C? I lean no, but I’d throw him to the fire to start the season and get your answer. I will push against the elite thing with newhook though, I like Newhook but he doesn’t have an elite attribute imo.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

The Avalanche 100% view Newhook as a centre. Whether that works out or not is a different question. But that’s there hope and that’s their plan.

@Pierce Hawthorne why the laughing emoji?

 

[bromando]

I think with Newhook there’s very obvious top 6 talent there. Is he a top 6 talent at C? I lean no, but I’d throw him to the fire to start the season and get your answer. I will push against the elite thing with newhook though, I like Newhook but he doesn’t have an elite attribute imo.

I guess I mean he’s got some highlight reel goals…or at least one I can remember off the top. That’s why I said flashes. But yeah he’s not got one dominant skill. I think we see him similarly. Curious about pierces thoughts since he pushes back on many others’ assessments

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I’m curious since you are debating these players pretty consistently, where do you think Newhook and Bo end up at their peaks? What is your projection for them? From my impression you’ve been pretty down on both relative to many others but perhaps you still think they’re good quality and just disagree with seasonal assessments of them?

FTR i think a healthy Bo is one of the best dmen in the league as soon as next year but maybe a couple years time. Newhook I’m mixed on. I can see him plateau pretty hard but he flashes some elite skill so it’s about him putting it together. Feels a bit more raw and hard to pin but I’d guess he ends up a good middle sixer but not necessarily a sure fire 2nd liner.

Oh yeah it's 100% this. Especially Newhook. I'm not down on him at all. I just think he's going to be a winger rather then a Center. He ended the year pretty poorly, but that doesn't take away from his full season of work. 33 points in 71 games with solid metrics, mostly from a 3rd line and limited 2nd PP unit is actually good.

His 5 on 5 production was really good. Points/60 was among the best on the team. He just didn't get a lot of minutes.

I even said yesterday that I think he should play on the 2nd line this year with Mikko and either Lehky or ERod. Mikko as the Center on the line. Playing with Mikko and getting say ~15 minutes of 5 on 5 ice time a game instead of the ~11 he got last year and I think he can chip in 20 Goals and 50 points as soon as next year.

Fun fact, I hated the Newhook pick that draft year. Loved Bo buy hated the Newhook pick especially with Krebs still on the board and having watched Caufield go 1 spot before us.

I think his peak ceiling for us is a 70 point winger who maybe scores 30 Goals a couple of times for us. More realistically though I would say a 25G/60 Point guy who's tenacious on the forecheck as well is where I personally see him peaking. Mind you if goal scoring continues its crazy rise, those numbers could get bumped up 5-10 points further still.

For Byram... I just think a small but vocal portion of the fans on here overrate his ability quite a bit. And I think a lot of it stemmed from when we drafted him and the early arguments about what his ceiling was back then. Some posters have clearly taken those arguments personally and have an agenda with Byram at this point.

The funny thing is when we initially drafted him I was part of that small vocal group. He was my #1 choice back in 2019 and I was thrilled when Chicago took Kirby Dach because it guaranteed the Avs would get either my top choice(Byram) or my 2nd choice(Turcotte). I was sure he had #1D upside and with what we already had on the back end here you could tell we had something special going on here.


But since his draft year... I guess you could say I've soured on him a little. I still think he will be a tremendous Dman for us and a very good player, but I don't see the #1 qualities I saw in his draft year. The questions about his offense translating to the NHL are clearly legit, in Juniornhe used to get away with things that he can't at the NHL level, because he was clearly just so much better and his coaches gave him the freedom to roam essentially. And especially on this Avs team he's not going to get the minutes or PP time to ever be a big offensive guy. His shot is also a lot weaker then I expected it to be honestly. That's something he can certainly still work on though. Hopefully Cale can teach him some things about shot selection and how its more important to get it on net then anything else.


But again I still think he's a good player. I'd say his peak ceiling on this team will be a high end #2D who can play big minutes, chip in ~40 Points(Maybe more if scoring keeps going up and the Avs continue to be a Top 5 offense) and be a Top penalty killer. I think he compliments Makars game quite nicely. If he stays healthy this year I'd start playing those two together more just to prepare for Toews' inevitable departure early honestly. His defensive game should be his strongest attribute going forward. He showed glimpses of how strong he can be in that regard against Tampa Bay and Edmonton.

My biggest concern for him is his health. Concussions are scary and what he has went through already is especially scary. At the very least I hope for he and his families sake, he can at least get a good pay day out of the NHL and his next contract so if the worst case scenario does happen and he has to retire very early he can at least guarantee his families futures.


But yeah I wouldn't even say I'm "down" on either of them. I just don't see Newhook as a Center long term. Bo just has his dedicated fans that get carried away with his evaluations and a little dishonest.

 

[henchman21]

I think the Avs really want Newhook to work out as a center. It simply solves a lot of problems. If he doesn't work out as a 2nd liner center, he is basically competing with Lehk for the last 2nd line wing spot. Which if he fails to beat out Lehk, you get into some major value and lineup slotting questions.

Now in practice, the Avs simply keep bringing in centers to compete with him. If you have full confidence in a guy taking that spot and running with it, you don't keep adding centers for his spot.

 

[Richard88]

I think the Avs really want Newhook to work out as a center. It simply solves a lot of problems. If he doesn't work out as a 2nd liner center, he is basically competing with Lehk for the last 2nd line wing spot. Which if he fails to beat out Lehk, you get into some major value and lineup slotting questions.

Now in practice, the Avs simply keep bringing in centers to compete with him. If you have full confidence in a guy taking that spot and running with it, you don't keep adding centers for his spot.

If Newhook can't handle 2C then those lineup value questions are for real and he probably becomes trade bait since he'll probably cost ~$3m to bridge which could be a bit much for the 3LW job beyond 2023.

Newhook+ for Scheifele with as much retention as WPG can do at the TDL would give the Avs two runs at a cup with another 1C between Lehkonen and Nichushkin/Rantanen. With retention on Scheifele it probably also becomes possible to keep Toews and Girard another year too.

 

[bromando]

Oh yeah it's 100% this. Especially Newhook. I'm not down on him at all. I just think he's going to be a winger rather then a Center. He ended the year pretty poorly, but that doesn't take away from his full season of work. 33 points in 71 games with solid metrics, mostly from a 3rd line and limited 2nd PP unit is actually good.

His 5 on 5 production was really good. Points/60 was among the best on the team. He just didn't get a lot of minutes.

I even said yesterday that I think he should play on the 2nd line this year with Mikko and either Lehky or ERod. Mikko as the Center on the line. Playing with Mikko and getting say ~15 minutes of 5 on 5 ice time a game instead of the ~11 he got last year and I think he can chip in 20 Goals and 50 points as soon as next year.

Fun fact, I hated the Newhook pick that draft year. Loved Bo buy hated the Newhook pick especially with Krebs still on the board and having watched Caufield go 1 spot before us.

I think his peak ceiling for us is a 70 point winger who maybe scores 30 Goals a couple of times for us. More realistically though I would say a 25G/60 Point guy who's tenacious on the forecheck as well is where I personally see him peaking. Mind you if goal scoring continues its crazy rise, those numbers could get bumped up 5-10 points further still.

For Byram... I just think a small but vocal portion of the fans on here overrate his ability quite a bit. And I think a lot of it stemmed from when we drafted him and the early arguments about what his ceiling was back then. Some posters have clearly taken those arguments personally and have an agenda with Byram at this point.

The funny thing is when we initially drafted him I was part of that small vocal group. He was my #1 choice back in 2019 and I was thrilled when Chicago took Kirby Dach because it guaranteed the Avs would get either my top choice(Byram) or my 2nd choice(Turcotte). I was sure he had #1D upside and with what we already had on the back end here you could tell we had something special going on here.


But since his draft year... I guess you could say I've soured on him a little. I still think he will be a tremendous Dman for us and a very good player, but I don't see the #1 qualities I saw in his draft year. The questions about his offense translating to the NHL are clearly legit, in Juniornhe used to get away with things that he can't at the NHL level, because he was clearly just so much better and his coaches gave him the freedom to roam essentially. And especially on this Avs team he's not going to get the minutes or PP time to ever be a big offensive guy. His shot is also a lot weaker then I expected it to be honestly. That's something he can certainly still work on though. Hopefully Cale can teach him some things about shot selection and how its more important to get it on net then anything else.


But again I still think he's a good player. I'd say his peak ceiling on this team will be a high end #2D who can play big minutes, chip in ~40 Points(Maybe more if scoring keeps going up and the Avs continue to be a Top 5 offense) and be a Top penalty killer. I think he compliments Makars game quite nicely. If he stays healthy this year I'd start playing those two together more just to prepare for Toews' inevitable departure early honestly. His defensive game should be his strongest attribute going forward. He showed glimpses of how strong he can be in that regard against Tampa Bay and Edmonton.

My biggest concern for him is his health. Concussions are scary and what he has went through already is especially scary. At the very least I hope for he and his families sake, he can at least get a good pay day out of the NHL and his next contract so if the worst case scenario does happen and he has to retire very early he can at least guarantee his families futures.


But yeah I wouldn't even say I'm "down" on either of them. I just don't see Newhook as a Center long term. Bo just has his dedicated fans that get carried away with his evaluations and a little dishonest.

I feel like that’s a fair assessment. Didn’t get that from your other posts but from this perspective I feel that all seems reasonable.

I’m a big fan of Bo and see a very high ceiling so maybe I’m a less vocal member of that crew you are talking about. Injuries of course could toss everything to the wind. But he has all the tools, the vision and hockey sense, and the right team to be pretty top level imo. He’s got a lot of room to polish off his skills yet which is amazing considering how he showed up in the playoffs.

 

[Avsboy]

Newhook would make a shitty winger. He isn't big enough, is too fast for that position, and plays a straight skating center style game. Growth isn't linear and I think in 2-3 years we'll all look back and laugh at these conversations. 60-80 pt center.

 

[henchman21]

Newhook would make a shitty winger. He isn't big enough, is too fast for that position, and plays a straight skating center style game. Growth isn't linear and I think in 2-3 years we'll all look back and laugh at these conversations. 60-80 pt center.

There are plenty of smaller, fast wingers out there (and I think calling Newhook fast is a bit generous)....

Of all things in Newhook's game, his skating holds him back as a center. He can't create enough space and it holds back his 200' game with the responsibilities that playing center entails. He's got offensive talent, he can win some battles, he plays with effort, is solid defensively... he just can't keep the pace up at center. There is a reason he broke out offensively for a stint next to Sturm...

 

[Pokecheque]

Newhook would make a shitty winger. He isn't big enough, is too fast for that position, and plays a straight skating center style game. Growth isn't linear and I think in 2-3 years we'll all look back and laugh at these conversations. 60-80 pt center.

His skill set should work out fine as a winger. He's not nearly as fast as you think he is, and there are ALL KINDS of "straight-skating" wings in the league who are wildly successful. If anything, north/south-type players don't generally make good centers.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The single best thing that could happen to Colorado next year, would be Mikko Rantanen establishing himself as the 2C for this team.

It solves sooooo many issues with this roster its actually crazy.


If I'm Bednar/Joe/CMac I'm giving Mikko a good 40 games at Center to start the year out.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Newhook would make a shitty winger. He isn't big enough, is too fast for that position, and plays a straight skating center style game. Growth isn't linear and I think in 2-3 years we'll all look back and laugh at these conversations. 60-80 pt center.

Lol yes. Johnny Gaudreau, Patrick Kane, Kirill Kaprizov.

All just awful players really.

 

[Richard88]

The single best thing that could happen to Colorado next year, would be Mikko Rantanen establishing himself as the 2C for this team.

It solves sooooo many issues with this roster its actually crazy.


If I'm Bednar/Joe/CMac I'm giving Mikko a good 40 games at Center to start the year out.

Didn't Rantanen play a lot of center in Finland?

Not sure if he'd enjoy playing center as much as wing, but it would probably be in his best interest financially to play C as centers tend to get paid a premium compared to wingers.

He'd also still keep his RW spot on PP1 so that might be enough to keep him happy inspite of playing C at 5v5.

 

[Avsboy]

Lol yes. Johnny Gaudreau, Patrick Kane, Kirill Kaprizov.

All just awful players really.

Newhook doesn't have their talent. But his skating is being underrated here by everyone.

 

[henchman21]

Newhook doesn't have their talent. But his skating is being underrated here by everyone.

Newhook's skating was extremely overrated prior to getting into the NHL. At the NHL level, Newhook is an above average to good skater... but far short of being a great skater.

 

[Avsboy]

Newhook's skating was extremely overrated prior to getting into the NHL. At the NHL level, Newhook is an above average to good skater... but far short of being a great skater.

It will only get better with time. What I liked most about his game was his motor and forecheck. Wingers have to be good along the boards or have dynamic offensive talent...I don't think he has these attributes. But he was pretty fast (will get faster) and could retrieve the puck behind the net well.

 

[henchman21]

It will only get better with time. What I liked most about his game was his motor and forecheck. Wingers have to be good along the boards or have dynamic offensive talent...I don't think he has these attributes. But he was pretty fast (will get faster) and could retrieve the puck behind the net well.

I've stated this many times before, but when players are as polished technically as Newhook... a jump in skating is unlikely to happen. I wouldn't expect Newhook's skating to get significantly better. It might incrementally, but a large jump won't happen. IMO the best thing Newhook could do to help his skating at this point is to trim down 10-15lbs.

Newhook's motor and edgework allow him to win his fair share of battles, which is important at wing and one of the reasons he's good there.

 

[Murzu]

Didn't Rantanen play a lot of center in Finland?

Not sure if he'd enjoy playing center as much as wing, but it would probably be in his best interest financially to play C as centers tend to get paid a premium compared to wingers.

He'd also still keep his RW spot on PP1 so that might be enough to keep him happy inspite of playing C at 5v5.

Some, but he played a lot of C in the AHL.