Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency (Mod Warning in OP)

[Pierce Hawthorne]

What am I missing here? Seider 50 points in 82 games. Bowen Byram 17 in 30 with no power play time. Both guys play a good two-way game. Byram played a massive role on a cup winning team. Not sure why that doesn’t matter.

I think Seider could end up being a top-10 D, but I just don’t see this wide gap that a lot of people seem to see. Seider looks like he’s skating with cement in his skates compared to Byram.

30 Games. Literally. You think he belongs in the Top 100 after 30 games?

This is also the problem with using a small sample size and extrapolating it over a full year. Just because he put up 17 in 30 games doesn't mean he keeps that pace up over a full 82 games. It is far, far, far more impressive to do what Seider did over the course of an entire season then a sample size of 1/3 of that.

Bo's gotta stay healthy for a year before you can even start discussing him on a list like this. Then he's gotta actually put together a good full season as well. 20 games means nothing compared to a full season body of work.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

From the Athletics:

“I think the deal I sign will be fair and it’s not gonna be single digit or anything, but it’ll be good I think for both sides. Denver’s the only place I want to be, for sure,” MacKinnon said, adding that the number wouldn’t even be close to the maximum allowed in the CBA, which is 20 percent of the salary cap or (currently) $16.5 million.

Gives me hope it might be less than 12.

That does sound like positive comments. But then you read his agents comments and it kind of goes the other way.

We'll just have to wait and see. Ultimately the really good news out of today is that the cause for massive panic that was going on in here about a week ago because Mack wasn't signed, was completely unnecessary and much ado about nothing, as expected.

Mack wants to play here, nowhere else, and it should get done before the season starts it sounds like. It wont be the insane $9.xM that some genuinely thought it would be but it should be a fair deal that gets Mack paid and sets up his kids and his kids' kids in the future, but also wont be a back breaking deal for the Avs either. Should end up in the 11-13M range.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

30 Games. Literally. You think he belongs in the Top 100 after 30 games?

This is also the problem with using a small sample size and extrapolating it over a full year. Just because he put up 17 in 30 games doesn't mean he keeps that pace up over a full 82 games. It is far, far, far more impressive to do what Seider did over the course of an entire season then a sample size of 1/3 of that.

Bo's gotta stay healthy for a year before you can even start discussing him on a list like this. Then he's gotta actually put together a good full season as well. 20 games means nothing compared to a full season body of work.

I’m more debating how this ranking appears to have a canyon sized gap between Seider and Byram.

You can add the 20 playoff games if you think the sample size is too small, where he had the same point percentage as Seider while again, getting no PP time.

I don’t know why Seider’s 82 games of meaningless hockey mean more than Byram’s 57 on cup team.

 

[bromando]

Keep Bo off lists like that. It just adds fuel to his competitive fire. Something tells me a guy like him just loves proving people wrong. Dude will be on these lists in short order if he stays healthy. He has the talent to be there, just needs things to come together.

 

[Foppa2118]

I’m more debating how this ranking appears to have a canyon sized gap between Seider and Byram.

You can add the 20 playoff games if you think the sample size is too small, where he had the same point percentage as Seider while again, getting no PP time.

I don’t know why Seider’s 82 games of meaningless hockey mean more than Byram’s 57 on cup team.

Seider was deemed the next Pronger before he even played 1 game in the NHL. Meanwhile Bo was doubted and questioned by some. It's a narrative issue not a sample size issue.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I’m more debating how this ranking appears to have a canyon sized gap between Seider and Byram.

You can add the 20 playoff games if you think the sample size is too small, where he had the same point percentage as Seider while again, getting no PP time.

I don’t know why Seider’s 82 games of meaningless hockey mean more than Byram’s 57 on cup team.

The best argument you can come up with is a tiny sample size, and this nonsense "Meaningless hockey" about Seider.

Yeah, not much of an argument hey.

One thing I will say, this "Byram gets no PP time" narrative should be cut out. He averaged 1 Minute of PP time a game this year. That's pretty standard for a 2nd unit PP guy.

I know you love your tiny sample sizes so here's one for you: Bo's PP Points/60 was 2.07. BY FAR the smallest of any player on the Avs that played any PP time. For comparison our other Dmen who spent time on PP2 were at 6.37(Toews) and 3.42(Girard).

Byram has to actually earn a chance on the PP. He had time when Girard/Toews were out of the lineup multiple times and he produced next to nothing. Literally one single point.

 

[ANewHope]

I have zero issue with Seider being ranked above Bo. Byram has a small sample size of playing at a comparable level but he needs to do it for an extended period of time to get in that conversation. He was insane in the playoffs. After Girard went down I'd argue he played at a level above Seider. It's just such a small sample size.

I'm really high on Byram after being down on him for abit after he was drafted but he does need to prove it over a season. This isn't like a few years ago where Makar was being comically slept on and you were getting accused of being a homer for thinking he was on another level than someone like Quinn Hughes. Seider being viewed above Byram makes sense for now.

 

[Alienblood]

What do you think of Vaakanainen? Presumably Anaheim won't waive him but they do have a few waiver-eligible Dmen so if he doesn't earn a spot he could potentially be waived, though that's probably unlikely.

As a more defensive Dman who can play both sides he could be a solid EJ replacement on the bottom pair by next year

I like him

 

[Hasbro]

30 Games. Literally. You think he belongs in the Top 100 after 30 games?

This is also the problem with using a small sample size and extrapolating it over a full year. Just because he put up 17 in 30 games doesn't mean he keeps that pace up over a full 82 games. It is far, far, far more impressive to do what Seider did over the course of an entire season then a sample size of 1/3 of that.

Bo's gotta stay healthy for a year before you can even start discussing him on a list like this. Then he's gotta actually put together a good full season as well. 20 games means nothing compared to a full season body of work.

Sample Size Queen

 

[ANewHope]

Seider was deemed the next Pronger before he even played 1 game in the NHL. Meanwhile Bo was doubted and questioned by some. It's a narrative issue not a sample size issue.

I remember arguing the Pronger comparisons early on. Seider's offensive game was underrated but to me the Pronger comparisons are just so silly. Pronger was a psycho on skates. One of the meanest to ever do it. Dirty as hell. Seider has some bite to his game and can throw his body around but nowhere near the same.

People just see the size/talent and toss it out IMO. Pronger couldn't even exist in the modern NHL and the modern version of him certainly logs more than 34 PIMS.

 

[Alienblood]

You've soured on him that much Pierce? I mean as a center? I just kinda assumed he hit the rookie wall. He kept showing a moment here or there that gave a glimpse of hope, but never anything really sustained.

I was hoping that experience and a full summer to train knowing what to expect would kinda reset him a bit. I still think he's capable of playing center but it depends on how assertive he can become.

I am pretty sure Sakic and co. view him as a center longterm which is what matters

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Sample Size Queen

FWIW the size thing actually somewhat applies to Seider as well. In general I dont think size is a significant factor in evaluating a player... But there's certainly a few exceptions to that rule and Seider is absolutely one of them.

To be as strong of a skater as Mo is despite that size. To be as smart in the offensive zone, as good at running a PP, as good a passer as Seider is... While also being 6'4 220+ or whatever he is, having a serious mean streak to his game, huge physically punishing hits and strong defensively. He's a rare example where size has an impact.

His size is more impactful then Hedman for example despite Hedman being even bigger. Because Mo actually uses that size and the strengths that come with it more consistently and frequently then Hedman, who doesn't play nearly as mean or physical.

I am pretty sure Sakic and co. view him as a center longterm which is what matters

That's why they've added so many Centers to this team in the last couple of months!

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

The best argument you can come up with is a tiny sample size, and this nonsense "Meaningless hockey" about Seider.

Yeah, not much of an argument hey.

One thing I will say, this "Byram gets no PP time" narrative should be cut out. He averaged 1 Minute of PP time a game this year. That's pretty standard for a 2nd unit PP guy.

I know you love your tiny sample sizes so here's one for you: Bo's PP Points/60 was 2.07. BY FAR the smallest of any player on the Avs that played any PP time. For comparison our other Dmen who spent time on PP2 were at 6.37(Toews) and 3.42(Girard).

Byram has to actually earn a chance on the PP. He had time when Girard/Toews were out of the lineup multiple times and he produced next to nothing. Literally one single point.

Oh, he’s never beating out Makar for the power play QB spot. Nor should he. There’s levels to this.

I think it’s too early to say that he’s just bad on the PP, because a lot of those minutes came playing on the wall. Just not a place where he’s going to thrive.

We’re talking about a 25 game difference in what the two played last year. The way you’re talking makes it sound like Seider has played 200 games and Byram’s played 20.

I dunno call me crazy, but I am going to give Byram some credit for having to play legitimate pressure minutes in big games. Something Seider hasn’t don’t yet. Not that he can’t, but he hasn’t had the chance to prove it yet.

Tbh, both guys will be great. Byram just doesn’t get nearly as much hype as Seider, even though I’d argue he has more specialness in his game that can translate moving forward.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

FWIW the size thing actually somewhat applies to Seider as well. In general I dont think size is a significant factor in evaluating a player... But there's certainly a few exceptions to that rule and Seider is absolutely one of them.

To be as strong of a skater as Mo is despite that size. To be as smart in the offensive zone, as good at running a PP, as good a passer as Seider is... While also being 6'4 220+ or whatever he is, having a serious mean streak to his game, huge physically punishing hits and strong defensively. He's a rare example where size has an impact.

His size is more impactful then Hedman for example despite Hedman being even bigger. Because Mo actually uses that size and the strengths that come with it more consistently and frequently then Hedman, who doesn't play nearly as mean or physical.



That's why they've added so many Centers to this team in the last couple of months!

So many? They added a guy for 1 year. Clear stop gap. It's not like they resigned kadri.

 

[Alienblood]

FWIW the size thing actually somewhat applies to Seider as well. In general I dont think size is a significant factor in evaluating a player... But there's certainly a few exceptions to that rule and Seider is absolutely one of them.

To be as strong of a skater as Mo is despite that size. To be as smart in the offensive zone, as good at running a PP, as good a passer as Seider is... While also being 6'4 220+ or whatever he is, having a serious mean streak to his game, huge physically punishing hits and strong defensively. He's a rare example where size has an impact.

His size is more impactful then Hedman for example despite Hedman being even bigger. Because Mo actually uses that size and the strengths that come with it more consistently and frequently then Hedman, who doesn't play nearly as mean or physical.



That's why they've added so many Centers to this team in the last couple of months!

Not a 2C hahahahah

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

So many? They added a guy for 1 year. Clear stop gap. It's not like they resigned kadri.

And signed Ben Meyers. And signed Lukas Sedlak

They've added 3 skaters to the team in the last 5 months and all 3 of them are Centers. Combined with the fact he hasn't played Center since like March... Its pretty clear he's being treated as a Winger at this point.

They probably haven't completely given up on him as a Center, I'm sure he'll get a few looks this year and hell I'd still give him some looks if it were me as well... But its clear with who they've brought in over the last few months they dont view him as a Center option right now at least.


He's just better as a Winger. Not a bad thing. He can still be a very good, Top 6 player for us. Just not at the Center ice position.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

I remember arguing the Pronger comparisons early on. Seider's offensive game was underrated but to me the Pronger comparisons are just so silly. Pronger was a psycho on skates. One of the meanest to ever do it. Dirty as hell. Seider has some bite to his game and can throw his body around but nowhere near the same.

People just see the size/talent and toss it out IMO. Pronger couldn't even exist in the modern NHL and the modern version of him certainly logs more than 34 PIMS.

Yeah and Pronger’s skating was better than Seider’s. Pronger had the ability to control games on the backend.

I will say though, the nasty/mean element of Seider’s game could certainly grow as he physically matures. It might come out more as he gets more experience in the league.

 

[Alienblood]

So many? They added a guy for 1 year. Clear stop gap. It's not like they resigned kadri.

Why bother lol he's a big wheel no spokes

Oh, he’s never beating out Makar for the power play QB spot. Nor should he. There’s levels to this.

I think it’s too early to say that he’s just bad on the PP, because a lot of those minutes came playing on the wall. Just not a place where he’s going to thrive.

We’re talking about a 25 game difference in what the two played last year. The way you’re talking makes it sound like Seider has played 200 games and Byram’s played 20.

I dunno call me crazy, but I am going to give Byram some credit for having to play legitimate pressure minutes in big games. Something Seider hasn’t don’t yet. Not that he can’t, but he hasn’t had the chance to prove it yet.

Tbh, both guys will be great. Byram just doesn’t get nearly as much hype as Seider, even though I’d argue he has more specialness in his game that can translate moving forward.

They should both be on pp1

 

[Alienblood]

Yeah and Pronger’s skating was better than Seider’s. Pronger had the ability to control games on the backend.

I will say though, the nasty/mean element of Seider’s game could certainly grow as he physically matures. It might come out more as he gets more experience in the league.

Seider's skating sucks

And signed Ben Meyers. And signed Lukas Sedlak

They've added 3 skaters to the team in the last 5 months and all 3 of them are Centers. Combined with the fact he hasn't played Center since like March... Its pretty clear he's being treated as a Winger at this point.

They probably haven't completely given up on him as a Center, I'm sure he'll get a few looks this year and hell I'd still give him some looks if it were me as well... But its clear with who they've brought in over the last few months they dont view him as a Center option right now at least.


He's just better as a Winger. Not a bad thing. He can still be a very good, Top 6 player for us. Just not at the Center ice position.

The Avs have left 2 C open for Newhook , I would bet they see him as a center long term

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Why bother lol he's a big wheel no spokes


They should both be on pp1

I wouldn’t have Byram on PP1. He’s not good on the wall and Makar is way better at the point.

He needs to beat out Toews for the QB spot on PP2. I could see it happening eventually, but Toews is pretty good there in his own right.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Seider's skating sucks


The Avs have left 2 C open for Newhook , I would bet they see him as a center long term

That only reassures me that he's a Winger going forward

 

[Avs_19]

Avs and Nate seem to be on the same page and I bet it gets done really soon but still a smart move to put a public deadline on it.

Nate basically just went out there and told them they need to pay him now or take the chance of only getting to talk to him when he’s like two weeks away from UFA.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

And signed Ben Meyers. And signed Lukas Sedlak

They've added 3 skaters to the team in the last 5 months and all 3 of them are Centers. Combined with the fact he hasn't played Center since like March... Its pretty clear he's being treated as a Winger at this point.

They probably haven't completely given up on him as a Center, I'm sure he'll get a few looks this year and hell I'd still give him some looks if it were me as well... But its clear with who they've brought in over the last few months they dont view him as a Center option right now at least.


He's just better as a Winger. Not a bad thing. He can still be a very good, Top 6 player for us. Just not at the Center ice position.

Two guys with two way contracts and who aren't even pure centers. I'm not even sure if sedlak starts in the NHL.

 

[AvsMakar08]

Seider ranked in the 3B tier and Byram not even ranked at all. I’m constantly amazed how underrated Byram is right now.

He was every bit as good as Seider this season.

Just wait until Byram is Makar's age.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Two guys with two way contracts and who aren't even pure centers. I'm not even sure if sedlak starts in the NHL.

Meyers is about as pure a C as you'll find these days