Rumor: 2022-2023 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Let’s Run it Back!

[AnimalMother73]

Who goes in a trade for a 2C? Got to assume its G right?

 

[CalderKing21]

Iirc it was 4 years X $12.5m, and 7 years X $11.6m (basically matching the deal he got with NYR).

That’s what I remember about Panarin. No one thought Joe was going to go high on his offer.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I'm having a hard time to believe that we'll sign a 2C during free agent frenzy. Sakic doesn't pay through the nose and hand max term contracts to UFA's unless your name is Landeskog (and even then it wasn't easy). He's not going to give 6-7 years to guys like Copp or Trocheck but other teams will.

There's another plan to replace Kadri and we just don't know it yet.

Along those lines, I wonder if they’ll target a 2C that’s closer to resembling a 3C than a 1C.

 

[Grackle Party]

I think it’s possible Sakic was going to let Nuke walk and sign Forsberg if he was available. I bet we see Nuke signed soon now

 

[RoyIsALegend]

I think it’s possible Sakic was going to let Nuke walk and sign Forsberg if he was available. I bet we see Nuke signed soon now

I don’t believe that, but if so, thank goodness… and I really like Forsberg.

 

[Balthazar]

Who goes in a trade for a 2C? Got to assume its G right?

One or more of: Girard, Newhook, first round pick

I could also see Sakic starting the season with JTC or Newhook at 2C and banking on the trade deadline to get a 2C.

 

[Richard88]

Two names that immediately jump out to me are Schmaltz and Gourde.

Schiefele

The name I keep coming back to is Necas.

Avs love trading for RFA's who have yet to break out, often those coming off down years who present good value via trade.

For example:

Grubauer - lost the starters job in round 1 the year WSH won the cup, so people questioned if he could be a starter. He wanted the opportunity to be a starter.

Burakovsky - lost his top 6 spot to Vrana and people questioned if he was anything more than a 25-30 point forward after 3 straight 12 goal seasons. Coming off a down year but wanted the opportunity to show he was a top 6 forward.

Toews - had a bad playoff with NYI and many Isles fans said he was bad defensively and questioned his upside.

Graves - some promise but overlooked by Vigneault in NYR's system.

Georgiev - has shown starter promise in NY but never really broke out. Coming off a down year. Wants a bigger opportunity.

....

Necas - shown promise as a top 6 and even top line forward, but hasn't really broken out and is coming off a down year. Wants an opportunity for a top 6 role, and specifically as a center. He also happens to be an extremely good skater, having clocked the fastest speed in the league this season.

There are obviously questions about whether or not he can translate as a center, which are legitimate, but the same questions where once asked about MacKinnon. Bednar helped MacKinnon become a force in this league as a center, and perhaps he could do the same with Necas.

 

[Balthazar]

The name I keep coming back to is Necas.

Avs love trading for RFA's who have yet to break out.

Grubauer - lost the starters job in round 1 the year WSH won the cup, so people questioned if he could be a starter. He wanted the opportunity to be a starter.

Burakovsky - lost his top 6 spot to Vrana and people questioned if he was anything more than a 25-30 point forward after 3 straight 12 goal seasons. Coming off a down year but wanted the opportunity to show he was a top 6 forward.

Toews - had a bad playoff with NYI and many Isles fans said he was bad defensively and questioned his upside.

Graves - some promise but overlooked by Vigneault in NYR's system.

Georgiev - has shown starter promise in NY but never really broke out. Coming off a down year. Wants a bigger opportunity.

....

Necas - shown promise as a top 6 and even top line forward, but hasn't really broken out and is coming off a down year. Wants an opportunity for a top 6 role, and specifically as a center. He also happens to be an extremely good skater, having clocked the fastest speed in the league this season.

There are obviously questions about whether or not he can translate as a center, which are legitimate, but the same questions where once asked about MacKinnon. Bednar helped MacKinnon become a force in this league as a center, and perhaps he could do the same with Necas.

I was going to post earlier that I could see a Necas for Newhook swap. Carolina would love Newhook's ELC.

That said there's a fair chance that we lose that trade quickly if Newhook becomes a better player than Necas.

 

[LOFIN]

I don’t believe that, but if so, thank goodness… and I really like Forsberg.

The hard salary cap is what it is, and we are going to have to start drawing lines on which players are part of the core and who are not. I have not understood this desire to bring in a 2C from the UFA market, we really can't afford it.

I think we can all acknowledge that at this point the nucleus of this team is MacKinnon, Makar, Landeskog and Rantanen. As of next season, they will take 45% of the cap. We have to be careful here who we are going to sign, re-sign and for what dollar. We all love Nuke, he's the easiest player to like because of his playing style. But we really can't afford to have another winger making +6mil unless he continues to produce at the pace he did MINIMUM. Are we confident in that if we are giving him a lot of term? Byram is up next year, I don't think we can do a bridge deal with him if he has a solid season. Unless he himself wants to of course, but I doubt it.

I trust Sakic to make the right decisions here, but I doubt he's willing to go over 5.5 for Nuke either. And that might upset a lot of people here but that's the right call IMO.

 

[Richard88]

I mean their pizza is shitty, but it would hurt a lot of franchisees.


It would take dumping JTC.

No, I don't think it would. Avs have plenty of cap flexibility to sign UFA's without trading someone out, it's just a matter of who to spend the money on.

Lehk $4m
Nichushkin $6m
JJ $750k
Georgiev $3m
NAK $1.225m

Those signings would leave $8.5m for a 2C and a bottom pair Dman, as I've shown in the AGM roster linked below.

Needless to say, $8.5m is plenty of money to be flexible on Copp/Trocheck and sign a Dman.

Now, if you want to re-sign Manson at $4m+ that's where it gets tight to sign Copp. Tight, but perhaps doable if you replace NAK with a cheaper player to save a few hundred k's and/or roll a 22 man roster.

Cap situation - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Create your own team. Trade, sign, recall, reassign, and buyout players as though you were your favourite teams general manager.

www.capfriendly.com

 

[Balthazar]

If Cogs got a raise from 1M to 1.25M then JJ isn't signing for 750k. He was a big piece in the regular season and the playoffs.

I say he's closer to 1.5M than 750k.

 

[EXTRAS]

What do u think manson signs for?

 

[CalderKing21]

The hard salary cap is what it is, and we are going to have to start drawing lines on which players are part of the core and who are not. I have not understood this desire to bring in a 2C from the UFA market, we really can't afford it.

I think we can all acknowledge that at this point the nucleus of this team is MacKinnon, Makar, Landeskog and Rantanen. As of next season, they will take 45% of the cap. We have to be careful here who we are going to sign, re-sign and for what dollar. We all love Nuke, he's the easiest player to like because of his playing style. But we really can't afford to have another winger making +6mil unless he continues to produce at the pace he did MINIMUM. Are we confident in that if we are giving him a lot of term? Byram is up next year, I don't think we can do a bridge deal with him if he has a solid season. Unless he himself wants to of course, but I doubt it.

I trust Sakic to make the right decisions here, but I doubt he's willing to go over 5.5 for Nuke either. And that might upset a lot of people here but that's the right call IMO.

Instant gratification. If we sign a 2C in UFA then there is no wait for him to develop.
If we have to trade for a 2C then it’s likely a situation where we have limited options due to draft capital or we have to grab an upside play.

We just won the cup and most want continued win now moves.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

If Cogs got a raise from 1M to 1.25M then JJ isn't signing for 750k. He was a big piece in the regular season and the playoffs.

I say he's closer to 1.5M than 750k.

Will JJ get a 2 year offer on the market, though?

Cogs was informed he could get 2 years on the market. Sakic was also informed of that. The 1 year deal comes with a raise to keep him from leaving for a two year deal elsewhere.

I agree JJ could ask for more than the minimum, but they might be different situations if there’s no term offers for JJ.

 

[Bender]

It would obviously be great if Sakic can get a pick for Kuemper's rights, but for that to happen Kuemper has to play ball and be willing to sign before UFA. If you're his agent though you're probably advising him to wait to encourage a bidding war.

If anyone were to trade for him without having a pre-agreed contract they'll also weaken their negotiation position in talks with Kuemper as they'll already be partly invested and thus give his agent more leverage.

The biggest winners here will obviously be Kuemper and Campbell. It's a bit of a lose-lose for those teams looking for a starter though: either they have no good starter, or they sign one of these guys and are stuck with their contracts. Alternatively they pay a big price in a trade for Gibson/Varlamov/etc, but those are risky too considering the prices needed to get them.

I don't quite see it that way. A team paying a late pick to acquire Kuemper's right would be RISKING that pick for the opportunity to get an early jump in negotiating with Kuemper's camp rather than wait to get into a bidding war.

The idea is that the team trying to get him is hoping to avoid a situation like the one the Avs were in last season with Grubauer, after negotiations fail - they had to scramble on a trade or else end up with a much less than ideal back-up plan. Avoiding this kind of situation and giving that team a bit of clarity going forward, still has value as far as I'm concerned.

Any team giving up a late pick to acquire Kuemper's right know it is a risk. Kuemper and his camp don't have to 'play ball' and don't really have a say in the matter at all. If they don't want to sign prior to UFA, that's up to them as long as they realize that they are essentially eliminating one of the teams that actually are interested in him.

I don't know about more leverage or less leverage. I think he and his camp have a number in mind and if the right team comes calling offering something that comes close to that, he'll jump on it. For instance, if Washington wants to sign him pre-UFA and they can get to a number that they are comfortable with, I could see him signing early rather than risk going to other destinations. If I'm Kuemper, that would be my preference rather than facing more scrutiny and pressure in a market like Toronto or Edmonton where if you don't win games on your own, you're considered trash.

 

[Richard88]

I was going to post earlier that I could see a Necas for Newhook swap. Carolina would love Newhook's ELC.

That said there's a fair chance that we lose that trade quickly if Newhook becomes a better player than Necas.

I suggested a Newhook/Necas swap on capfriendly a few days ago just to gauge opinions, and Carolina fans were positive to the idea.

I'm not sure about doing that. There's obviously risk that Newhook breaks out and becomes the younger and better player. But if the Avs don't believe he can be a center (or even top 6 forward) while on the flipside believing that Necas can, then it's a risk you take imo.

 

[Goulet17]

Sakic likely has to sign a UFA forward signing at this point, really two UFA forward signings if Nuke walks. Everyone keeps talking about making that elusive trade for a 2C, but with what assets?

Newhook or G plus Colorado's first next year? Centers are in such high demand that you are likely looking at a Byram plus Colorado's first next year to accomplish anything by trade that appreciably improves the Colorado lineup. Moving Newhook or G plus for a Schmaltz or Gourde forward is not really going to move the needle, and it would open up holes elsewhere in the lineup.

Sakic went all in last year, which was obviously the right decision, but Colorado has severely depleted its available assets to allow for a trade of any significance at this point. Due to the organization's inability to develop NHL caliber depth forwards, the forward group is going to be in trouble next year. I just don't see any way around not signing at least one UFA forward, at least of middle six caliber, and hopefully a center.

 

[dahrougem2]

If Cogs got a raise from 1M to 1.25M then JJ isn't signing for 750k. He was a big piece in the regular season and the playoffs.

I say he's closer to 1.5M than 750k.

Lol. Jack Johnson is not getting 1M per.

I don't know why you keep bringing up this supposed "Stanley Cup tax" as if the Avs now have to overpay players because they won the Cup. It's insane.

 

[Balthazar]

Will JJ get a 2 year offer on the market, though?

Cogs was informed he could get 2 years on the market. Sakic was also informed of that. The 1 year deal comes with a raise to keep him from leaving for a two year deal elsewhere.

I agree JJ could ask for more than the minimum, but they might be different situations if there’s no term offers for JJ.

We'll see. They could go 2 years on JJ to lower the cap hit but IMO it's still won't go under 1M AAV.

Lol. Jack Johnson is not getting 1M per.

I don't know why you keep bringing up this supposed "Stanley Cup tax" as if the Avs now have to overpay players because they won the Cup. It's insane.

Look at past cup winners and you'll understand. I'm not talking about core players, but bottom 6 players and dmen tend to get paid extra for winning the cup.

 

[Chiarelli]

This goalie situation is about to get great:

Washington, Toronto, Edmonton and buffalo fighting over:

- Gibson (controls where he goes and will cost a ton)
- Varlamov (Lou controls this situation and will destroy a desperate team)
- Kuemper (will cost a ton and be bought out in 3 years)
- Campbell (the best option of the bunch by my estimation as he won’t cost assets but will cost a lot in term and aav)

 

[Richard88]

We'll see. They could go 2 years on JJ to lower the cap hit but IMO it's still won't go under 1M AAV.


Look at past cup winners and you'll understand. I'm not talking about core players, but bottom 6 players and dmen tend to get paid extra for winning the cup.

JJ was almost out of the league entirely 12 months ago and found a coach who trusts him. I think he comes back under $1m. Maybe with a small bump to like $900k.

 

[CalderKing21]

JJ was almost out of the league entirely 12 months ago and found a coach who trusts him. I think he comes back under $1m. Maybe with a small bump to like $900k.

Even if it was for over a mil, he’s a solid enough player that it wouldn’t harm us.

 

[Avsboy]

Dater wrote an article stating obvious things: Nichushkin likely signing with Colorado, Kadri unknown, Bura no, Manson maybe if Girard is traded

 

[Richard88]

I don't quite see it that way. A team paying a late pick to acquire Kuemper's right would be RISKING that pick for the opportunity to get an early jump in negotiating with Kuemper's camp rather than wait to get into a bidding war.

The idea is that the team trying to get him is hoping to avoid a situation like the one the Avs were in last season with Grubauer, after negotiations fail - they had to scramble on a trade or else end up with a much less than ideal back-up plan. Avoiding this kind of situation and giving that team a bit of clarity going forward, still has value as far as I'm concerned.

Any team giving up a late pick to acquire Kuemper's right know it is a risk. Kuemper and his camp don't have to 'play ball' and don't really have a say in the matter at all. If they don't want to sign prior to UFA, that's up to them as long as they realize that they are essentially eliminating one of the teams that actually are interested in him.

I don't know about more leverage or less leverage. I think he and his camp have a number in mind and if the right team comes calling offering something that comes close to that, he'll jump on it. For instance, if Washington wants to sign him pre-UFA and they can get to a number that they are comfortable with, I could see him signing early rather than risk going to other destinations. If I'm Kuemper, that would be my preference rather than facing more scrutiny and pressure in a market like Toronto or Edmonton where if you don't win games on your own, you're considered trash.

Good points, well made.

I agree that Washington would be best for Kuemper. Their core only has like two years of playoff relevance left (if that), so he'd age out with the team and his bad years wouldn't matter so much through a rebuild. In Edmonton and Toronto he'd be under constant scrutiny.

With that in mind, if you're Washington and you know that Kuemper probably favours your team (let's be real tampering definitely goes on so they'd probably have an idea) are you really that worried about Edmonton or Toronto that you drop a pick before UFA?

Toronto specifically are also operating under a tight cap so it's easy to predict the sort of AAV they can offer, and Washington can top that.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Don't think Seattle is interested in moving Gourde and not sure Schmaltz is reliable enough to be a 2C on a Stanley cup team.

Plus, his name is Schmaltz.

Man, he's playing like Schmaltz! Would you like to see my Schmaltz?

Sorry if there's anyone here named Schmaltz...