Sky04
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- Jan 8, 2009
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Speculation: 2022-2023 General Lightning Discussion - Part 2
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RussianGuyovich
Hella Ennui
- Jan 2, 2007
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Serge would fetch a great return. You could get anything. Even another serge!
LTIR Trickery
Plz stop pucks
JTBF81
Registered User
The window is definitely not closed after this season, but Hedman's play could be a concern moving ahead. He just turned 32, so I can't believe he's already declined to this level already. As far as next year, provided Hedman is still capable as a 1D, the biggest decision will be whether to focus on all the forwards and Cole/trading for/signing another 3LD in the offseason, or going after a top 4 upgrade on defense. With Colton, Jeannot, and Eyssimont needing new deals, plus a decision on Perry, that would probably eat up at least 7 million in space(being conservative). Right now, with 7F, 7D, and Vasy signed, the team has 9.25 available, counting the dead weight of Myers and his 275k buried hit and a projected increase of 1 million. If Myers and one of Fleury/Raddysh are subtracted, that leaves approximately 10.3 million for 7 signings in order to reach 21 players.
A backup G, whether it's Elliott again, Alnefelt, or someone else, will be 850-900k, so now there's tops ~9.5. If JBB pulls some magic and gets the 3 rfas plus Perry or another 4th line vet for 7 million, that leaves the team with at best 2.5 for a 12th F and a 3LD. I can't see Cole returning in this case, but one of the names on that list could probably be had for 1.5ish. Tampa would then use the remaining 900k-1 million on the 12th F.
JBB could decide to move Colton+ for an upgrade on defense in a hockey trade, or an even more surprising move with Cirelli for an even better dman. In any case, there's just no room for both, so either he signs all the main F's and keeps that group as strong as possible while banking on Hedman, Serg, Cernak, Perbix, Bogo, new 3LD/#7 acquisition and one of Fleury/Raddysh, or he sacrifices one of Colton or Cirelli to upgrade the defense(I suppose Jeannot could be moved as well, but that seems very doubtful after what JBB just paid, and Jeannot will likely save the.least among any of the possible F moved).
A backup G, whether it's Elliott again, Alnefelt, or someone else, will be 850-900k, so now there's tops ~9.5. If JBB pulls some magic and gets the 3 rfas plus Perry or another 4th line vet for 7 million, that leaves the team with at best 2.5 for a 12th F and a 3LD. I can't see Cole returning in this case, but one of the names on that list could probably be had for 1.5ish. Tampa would then use the remaining 900k-1 million on the 12th F.
JBB could decide to move Colton+ for an upgrade on defense in a hockey trade, or an even more surprising move with Cirelli for an even better dman. In any case, there's just no room for both, so either he signs all the main F's and keeps that group as strong as possible while banking on Hedman, Serg, Cernak, Perbix, Bogo, new 3LD/#7 acquisition and one of Fleury/Raddysh, or he sacrifices one of Colton or Cirelli to upgrade the defense(I suppose Jeannot could be moved as well, but that seems very doubtful after what JBB just paid, and Jeannot will likely save the.least among any of the possible F moved).
After jettisoning McDonagh and signing him to that fat contract, I don't think that is a remote possibility
I'm not too concerned about Hedman, most of the problems this year have come from mental mistakes.
Trading Cirelli would be my option, but I doubt it will be easy give his cap number, contract length and career offensive numbers. I think it will be harder to convince JB to even try given how in love he and Cooper seem to be with him. The guy's a really good player and I like him, but not his contract or how Cooper uses him.
JTBF81
Registered User
Cirelli is at most 1 million overpaid imo(probably a little less). Any other GM looking for a C upgrade would be foolish just to.look at his offensive numbers and try to lowball JBB in a trade. I doubt he's moved as well, since the team doesn't usually hand out multi year extensions to those they plan to trade(but as with McD and to a lesser degree Miller, not unheard of). However, in the case he is moved, Tampa could definitely acquire a.top 4 dman,either left or right, and still likely save some cap space(at least in the shorter term). Colton+something(the value of which determining the quality of dman they target) is far more likely. In that scenario, you probably just roll with Fleury at 3LD and use the available cap that would've likely been spent on the hypothetical 3LD for a 3rd/4th line F. They could also still go for the ufa dman in this case and hope.that a Syracuse promotion can click on the 3rd/4th line.
EmptyNetAssassin
Registered User
I am for trading Celly, he just don't bring enough offense to earn his paycheck. We could probably trade him for a young defenseman or a pick and prospect. He is great 3rd line center but not a good 2nd lime center.
Perhaps a top 10 defensive forward, but only a two-time 40 point scorer, I'd say he's at least a million overpaid (Nate McKinnon currently has only a 6.3 mil cap hit, Dillon Larkin, Mark Sheifele and Brock Nelson all have a slightly lower cap hit and have much better offensive numbers - multiple 60-70 point seasons).
But that aside, the length of the contract is a big commitment for other GMs to take on. They'd have to really like Cirelli as much as the Lightning. It's one thing to say I'll take on this contract the player isn't living up to for 1-3 years, but for 8 more years? I'd expect it lower the ceiling on what we'd get back. Yzerman surprised me many times when he was able to move some of the bad contracts he inherited, but they weren't this long.
At this point, I want to know which Tampa team is gonna show up 1st round vs TOR ???? Has Cooper lost the room ? What does it take to turn this "imploding" ship around ????
LTIR Trickery
Plz stop pucks
I hear a lot of bullshit about a guy that plays Selke-caliber defense as a forward and is a half PPG after having f***ing shoulder surgery in the offseason and missing 20 games relative to his teammates, yet a whole bunch of love for a guy like Paul who isn't injured but hasn't had a multipoint game since just after new years. Ross Colton is another who hasn't produced as much - 5 points since the end of January?
Like I can't believe how many of you forgot just how good Cirelli is and are ready to jump ship because of a bad stretch.
Like I can't believe how many of you forgot just how good Cirelli is and are ready to jump ship because of a bad stretch.
The Gongshow
Fire JBB
Pretty sure Paul (and Killorn) were on pace to have decent points this year until Coop broke up that line for some reason and buried Paul in our bottom 6, with no PP time.
Cirelli is great defensively, no doubt about it, but his cap next year and his lack of offense are worrisome, he has proven to be an offense black hole for his wingers year after year.
His contract should be relatively easy to move and gain some assets back, but more importantly gaining the cap back
- Jan 23, 2017
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Paul and Colton combined make less money than Cirelli, and his extension hasn't even kicked in yet. People's expectations of him obviously are much higher.
Paul and Colton are both good value for their contracts. Paul is actually looking like great value, the best of those long term contracts JB handed out in the offseason.
The hate is for Cirelli's contract, not Cirelli. I don't blame him at all for signing it, but JB for offering it.
I don't think it's Coop who's lost the room so much as the room has lost its mojo.
LTIR Trickery
Plz stop pucks
So whats the bad plan then? Trade him for scraps? Just grab someone in free agency?
He is producing EXACTLY what he has throughout his career coming off shoulder surgery which is a feat in and of itself. Its not his fault that Paul, Hagel, Colton, Maroon, and Perry are all on milk cartons right now. Take his numbers off a full season and he is exactly where he has been over the last few seasons.
So fine, lets dump Cirelli. Who replaces him then? Lets do a quick search and look at contracts of players who can play center, have under 55 points, and a caphit under his next season caphit of 6.25.
115 results, some decent names on there. Alright, lets make another adjustment and see these same filters, but with the ones who will be UFA.
80 results. Who do you think you'll get at less money (and don't bullshit yourself, you're not getting a single one of these guys under 4m/year) that can be as reliable and productive as Cirelli? Is he 25 like Cirelli? Does he have extensive playoff experience? Now think about being stuck in a bidding war with other people on the market. Which of these names do you pay a premium for? Is that going to be better paying the same or more money for an older player who will more than likely have far, far less term?
He is producing EXACTLY what he has throughout his career coming off shoulder surgery which is a feat in and of itself. Its not his fault that Paul, Hagel, Colton, Maroon, and Perry are all on milk cartons right now. Take his numbers off a full season and he is exactly where he has been over the last few seasons.
So fine, lets dump Cirelli. Who replaces him then? Lets do a quick search and look at contracts of players who can play center, have under 55 points, and a caphit under his next season caphit of 6.25.
115 results, some decent names on there. Alright, lets make another adjustment and see these same filters, but with the ones who will be UFA.
80 results. Who do you think you'll get at less money (and don't bullshit yourself, you're not getting a single one of these guys under 4m/year) that can be as reliable and productive as Cirelli? Is he 25 like Cirelli? Does he have extensive playoff experience? Now think about being stuck in a bidding war with other people on the market. Which of these names do you pay a premium for? Is that going to be better paying the same or more money for an older player who will more than likely have far, far less term?
RussianGuyovich
Hella Ennui
- Jan 2, 2007
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its so much more peaceful when you remind yourself that very few posters on here can earnestly evaluate talent beyond "puck no go in net" and even less so have any idea what fair market value is in TYOOL 2023
RussianGuyovich
Hella Ennui
- Jan 2, 2007
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shit a poster here seriously suggested we trade sergachev for parayko the other day. parayko... a career-high 35 point scorer, about to be on the wrong side of 30, with decidedly worse metrics in basically every category, and has a higher cap hit than serge currently and will only be 2 milly cheaper until 2030 when he's 37
but SERGE MAKES BONEHEADED DECISIONS and YOU CANT TEACH SIZE
but SERGE MAKES BONEHEADED DECISIONS and YOU CANT TEACH SIZE
These Are The Days
I need about tree fiddy
You called Daddy? We shipped out McDonagh for dumb shit and now we have a guy who does even more dumb shit than McDonagh signed to a lifetime deal.
One returned Phillipe Myers and the other could've fetched a treasure trove
RussianGuyovich
Hella Ennui
- Jan 2, 2007
- 9,999
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haha forgot who it was, anyway parayko is garbage this year.
im not opposed to shipping out anyone, im a fan of the team and have seen them worse, but we're just in the ides of march here and everyone is bent on making knee-jerk reactions. this includes me. we're all emotional.
that's why i gotta keep trolling the board to keep you all honest
youre welcome
im not opposed to shipping out anyone, im a fan of the team and have seen them worse, but we're just in the ides of march here and everyone is bent on making knee-jerk reactions. this includes me. we're all emotional.
that's why i gotta keep trolling the board to keep you all honest
youre welcome
These Are The Days
I need about tree fiddy
PJ817
Registered User
- Jan 27, 2019
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After he stopped chomping on gum, we won 2 cups.
People want to say how the Pens are doing after their runs and I did a little side by side to show just exactly HOW the Pens have compared to us.
To me, the Pens have done WORSE than us after their 2 championships. And let's be honest. IF the refs in the ECF for 2016 would have not been that horrifically biased, WE would have won the Cup that year but ... it is what it is.
After the Pens won their back-to-back, they have not made it past the 2nd round and the last 4 seasons, haven't made it out of the 1st round. Meanwhile, here we were in SCFs in 3 years and 4 SCF in 8 seasons.
I think this plays into the team is exhausted mentally. NO OTHER TEAM has done what the Bolts have done in the last decade.
Not the Pens, not the Avs, not the Hawks.
And never once in the last decade did any of those teams win the President's Trophy.
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