Rumor: 2022-2023 Free Agency and Trade Rumors: STILL searching for a 2C

[Perratrooper]

I wonder what it would cost to get one or all of Hayes, Nelson and M. Roy. Realistically if we could convince all three teams to retain 50% we could likely add all of them.

Trade 1
To Col:
Hayes (50%)
York
Macewan
To Phi
Girard
Kaut

Trade 2
To Col:
Nelson (50%)
To NYI
Newhook
2024 first

Trade 3
To Col:
M. Roy (50%)
To LA:
York
2025 second

Landeskog-MacK-Nuke
Nelson-Hayes-Rantanen
Lehk-JTC-ERod
Macewan/Cogs-Helm-LOC
Toews-Makar
Byram-Manson
Roy-EJ

We’d be about $1.2 under cap.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Technically you could find a new #2 center every trade deadline but it's very expensive strategy and you never know how the players adjust during 20-40 games, so might be some total flops.

It's like this season, this team can contend, if they can add players on trade deadline. They need help but few additions and this team is legit contender again .

Yeah. It would be much cheaper to find a #4/5 each deadline then it would be a 2C.


Plus, we've seen plenty of teams with mediocre defenses win cups before. You don't need the best D in the league to win the cup. Having a Top pairing that can play 30 minutes a night already puts our group way ahead of just about everyone else.

Sacrificing some of the D to improve the Center position balances out the roster so much better. Then at the deadline you can focus on the cheaper 3C or #4D instead of having to worry about paying through the nose every year for a 2nd line Center. Not to mention worrying about chemistry.

 

[shadow1]

I think regardless of what happens with Girard, it'll be an off-season decision. Unless something has been cooking in the oven for a while, it's difficult to orchestrate a trade involving a player with 4 years left on their contract.

To my knowledge, the only player Sakic (and by extension MacFarland) has ever traded with more than 1 year left on their deal was Ryan Graves (and technically Matt Duchene, who had an additional year + the remainder of that season). Point is, the management duo has overwhelmingly only dealt away guys with no more than one year remaining on their contracts (i.e. Barrie, Cole, Soderberg, etc.).

I will be surprised, however, if Alex Newhook survives the trade deadline. He's on pace for only 28 points despite a slight uptick in ice time, and it's clear he's a middle-6 winger rather than the second line center we were all hoping for.

 

[AvsCOL]

I think regardless of what happens with Girard, it'll be an off-season decision. Unless something has been cooking in the oven for a while, it's difficult to orchestrate a trade involving a player with 4 years left on their contract.

To my knowledge, the only player Sakic (and by extension MacFarland) has ever traded with more than 1 year left on their deal was Ryan Graves (and technically Matt Duchene, who had an additional year + the remainder of that season). Point is, the management duo has overwhelmingly only dealt away guys with no more than one year remaining on their contracts (i.e. Barrie, Cole, Soderberg, etc.).

I will be surprised, however, if Alex Newhook survives the trade deadline. He's on pace for only 28 points despite a slight uptick in ice time, and it's clear he's a middle-6 winger rather than the second line center we were all hoping for.

The Avs said before the season that they were willing to be patient with Newhook, but unfortunately he’s shown nothing at 2C. I still think he’s got 2nd line upside, but it’s pretty clear to me he’s not a natural centreman at the NHL level. I’d personally have no problem including him in a deal for a 2C, even if there’s a chance he has the best upside in the deal. Avs are in win now mode, and can’t afford to waste a single year.

 

[Balthazar]

A #4D at the deadline is still a 1st+. See Chiarot, Manson or Savard.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I think regardless of what happens with Girard, it'll be an off-season decision. Unless something has been cooking in the oven for a while, it's difficult to orchestrate a trade involving a player with 4 years left on their contract.

To my knowledge, the only player Sakic (and by extension MacFarland) has ever traded with more than 1 year left on their deal was Ryan Graves (and technically Matt Duchene, who had an additional year + the remainder of that season). Point is, the management duo has overwhelmingly only dealt away guys with no more than one year remaining on their contracts (i.e. Barrie, Cole, Soderberg, etc.).

I will be surprised, however, if Alex Newhook survives the trade deadline. He's on pace for only 28 points despite a slight uptick in ice time, and it's clear he's a middle-6 winger rather than the second line center we were all hoping for.

The Avs said before the season that they were willing to be patient with Newhook, but unfortunately he’s shown nothing at 2C. I still think he’s got 2nd line upside, but it’s pretty clear to me he’s not a natural centreman at the NHL level. I’d personally have no problem including him in a deal for a 2C, even if there’s a chance he has the best upside in the deal. Avs are in win now mode, and can’t afford to waste a single year.

With regards to Newhook. Man, Dom's got his value at 2.7M. That's a lot for a guy that's really struggling and even been recently demoted to 4th line C. However, I also believe there is a second line winger buried in there. Bednar just needs to help get it unlocked. I wouldn't be looking to trade Newhook. If that is the price to permanently fix the 2C spot, so be it. But the only way I think I could entertain trading him for a rental was if it was a good hockey deal AND I could assume that extra cap-space savings next season was going to allow me to re-sign one of ERod or JTC.

 

[Sea Eagles]

Hold fast and let our champions return when healthy. I want to see this team full tilt. I personally think we'll be unstoppable.

 

[Metallo]

I wonder what it would cost to get one or all of Hayes, Nelson and M. Roy. Realistically if we could convince all three teams to retain 50% we could likely add all of them.

Trade 1
To Col:
Hayes (50%)
York
Macewan
To Phi
Girard
Kaut

Trade 2
To Col:
Nelson (50%)
To NYI
Newhook
2024 first

Trade 3
To Col:
M. Roy (50%)
To LA:
York
2025 second

Landeskog-MacK-Nuke
Nelson-Hayes-Rantanen
Lehk-JTC-ERod
Macewan/Cogs-Helm-LOC
Toews-Makar
Byram-Manson
Roy-EJ

We’d be about $1.2 under cap.

I'm pretty sure the math doesn't check out. That's about 8M$ in cap hit coming in and 7M$ coming out.

(And that is saying nothing about playoff teams unloading talent for futures at the deadline.)

 

[The Kingslayer]

With regards to Newhook. Man, Dom's got his value at 2.7M. That's a lot for a guy that's really struggling and even been recently demoted to 4th line C. However, I also believe there is a second line winger buried in there. Bednar just needs to help get it unlocked. I wouldn't be looking to trade Newhook. If that is the price to permanently fix the 2C spot, so be it. But the only way I think I could entertain trading him for a rental was if it was a good hockey deal AND I could assume that extra cap-space savings next season was going to allow me to re-sign one of ERod or JTC.

Thats 2.7M more then he deserves.

 

[The Merchant]

Hold fast and let our champions return when healthy. I want to see this team full tilt. I personally think we'll be unstoppable.

That's actually the wisest move if they can manage to get healthy before the TDL. If ERod appears to be a solid enough 2C they may want to refocus on shoring up the defense instead for Bo/Manson insurance heading into the playoffs. The only guy that would be a more impactful 2C fit is Horvat and that juice may just not be worth the squeeze at this point. If they can somehow pull that off? Great. Then ERod becomes this year's Bura and we have insane depth again.

 

[cinchronicity]

My grandfather loved the saying, " You can't have your cake and eat it too" and I think that very much applies to the Avs and trades. There are no miracles, and no team is going to help out the Avs.

Our financial situation - 3rd Pair and 4th line absolutely have to be contracts below $1M and the 3rd line can't be much higher. As a member of the $250k overpay club which got a lot of abuse this year, I feel vindicated in wanting to keep those 4 overpays in the cap bank.

Our Defense:
High Quality - Makar, Toews ( well, he was last season)
Perfectly Fine - Girard, Manson
At best a Vet Minimum in 23/24 season - EJ
Hospital ICU Ward - Byram
Pipeline and likely viable in 23/24 - Behrens
Fine for 7/8/xyz - Englund, MacDermid, MacDonald

Let's assume that Byram can get and remain healthy, as he surely has 1D potential. Furthermore, let's assume that Behrens could be counted on next year as a 5D. Can SakMac go for:

Makar / Byram
Girard / Manson
Behrens / EJ ( at Vet minimum)

This drives the 3rd pair below $2M total. It also allows the Avs to send out Toews in a trade for a legit 2C. So why not do that right away? (Or as soon as Byram establishes that this injury is not a concussion.) Toews is superior bait than Girard. Would Toews + OO + 2023 1st get an extended Horvat or similar 2C?

Forwards:
Could the Avs redistribute the lines a bit in order to avoid a black hole in the bottom 6?

Newhook / Mac / Lehky
Nuke / Horvat / Mikko
Landy / Meyers / Erod
Cogs / Helm / LOC

ERod would have to leave some money on the table in a new contract, but could conceivably be looking at another 2 rings. Meyers would have to sign a bridge at a low number. Cogs and Helm are not getting any younger, but Bellemare played here at 36, and both might take PTO range salaries. The Avs also have Foudy in the wings, who could fill either a 3rd or 4th line slot reasonably.

This all goes back to the first argument: If Toews is doomed to leave for greener pastures in 1.5 seasons anyway, why not include him in a trade, today, which can get us a 2C with at least 5 year term?

 

[Metallo]

My grandfather loved the saying, " You can't have your cake and eat it too" and I think that very much applies to the Avs and trades. There are no miracles, and no team is going to help out the Avs.

Our financial situation - 3rd Pair and 4th line absolutely have to be contracts below $1M and the 3rd line can't be much higher. As a member of the $250k overpay club which got a lot of abuse this year, I feel vindicated in wanting to keep those 4 overpays in the cap bank.

Our Defense:
High Quality - Makar, Toews ( well, he was last season)
Perfectly Fine - Girard, Manson
At best a Vet Minimum in 23/24 season - EJ
Hospital ICU Ward - Byram
Pipeline and likely viable in 23/24 - Behrens
Fine for 7/8/xyz - Englund, MacDermid, MacDonald

Let's assume that Byram can get and remain healthy, as he surely has 1D potential. Furthermore, let's assume that Behrens could be counted on next year as a 5D. Can SakMac go for:

Makar / Byram
Girard / Manson
Behrens / EJ ( at Vet minimum)

This drives the 3rd pair below $2M total. It also allows the Avs to send out Toews in a trade for a legit 2C. So why not do that right away? (Or as soon as Byram establishes that this injury is not a concussion.) Toews is superior bait than Girard. Would Toews + OO + 2023 1st get an extended Horvat or similar 2C?

Forwards:
Could the Avs redistribute the lines a bit in order to avoid a black hole in the bottom 6?

Newhook / Mac / Lehky
Nuke / Horvat / Mikko
Landy / Meyers / Erod
Cogs / Helm / LOC

ERod would have to leave some money on the table in a new contract, but could conceivably be looking at another 2 rings. Meyers would have to sign a bridge at a low number. Cogs and Helm are not getting any younger, but Bellemare played here at 36, and both might take PTO range salaries. The Avs also have Foudy in the wings, who could fill either a 3rd or 4th line slot reasonably.

This all goes back to the first argument: If Toews is doomed to leave for greener pastures in 1.5 seasons anyway, why not include him in a trade, today, which can get us a 2C with at least 5 year term?

Any lineup scenario not done in Capfriendly with actual numbers is worthless. I'm confident your lineup is not cap compliant.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Can’t trade Girard. The Avs will not contend with Josh Manson as their third-best defenseman. And any replacement for G will cost as much if not more. If Byram could be relief upon for a full season, sure, but he can’t be so until that happens, can’t trade Girard.

Yeah, I lean towards keeping Bo, but the team will be forced to make a huge decision between the two regardless.

 

[Pokecheque]

Yeah, I lean towards keeping Bo, but the team will be forced to make a huge decision between the two regardless.

Agreed.

 

[MacKaRant]

Yeah that’s pretty brutal. He not only can’t think of a 15th legit prospect, he can’t even bring himself to say nice things about the 14th ranked prospect (Makar). Not surprising though.

This one goes out to the old guard: The cupboard is bare!

 

[Hasbro]

This one goes out to the old guard: The cupboard is bare!

Spelling.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Spelling.

Yeah, but even so, he ain't wrong.

 

[Pokecheque]

Yeah, but even so, he ain't wrong.

You're missing the joke.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

You're missing the joke.

Naw, I've been around long enough to remember that meme originating. I was just saying that even though @MacKaRant can't spell, we still have no prospects.

 

[Balthazar]

What's the story behind that cupboard spelling meme? I see it here from time to time but I've no clue where it comes from.

 

[Pokecheque]

I wonder what it would cost to get one or all of Hayes, Nelson and M. Roy. Realistically if we could convince all three teams to retain 50% we could likely add all of them.

Trade 1
To Col:
Hayes (50%)
York
Macewan
To Phi
Girard
Kaut

Trade 2
To Col:
Nelson (50%)
To NYI
Newhook
2024 first

Trade 3
To Col:
M. Roy (50%)
To LA:
York
2025 second

Landeskog-MacK-Nuke
Nelson-Hayes-Rantanen
Lehk-JTC-ERod
Macewan/Cogs-Helm-LOC
Toews-Makar
Byram-Manson
Roy-EJ

We’d be about $1.2 under cap.

What?

First off, why is PHI trading away their 2nd-best center and best young defenseman for a struggling Sammy (a defenseman they would NEVER want in the first place, even if he were playing amazing right now) and a busted prospect, AND retaining half of Hayes' deal!???

But the thing that really gets me...why in God's name would the Avs, even if they got Cam York, trade him away for Matt Roy!? If they got York, they should just keep him.

Before anyone says anything, yeah, I know, small sample size on York, yadda yadda yadda. I think he has the potential to be better than Roy, but it's a moot point.

Naw, I've been around long enough to remember that meme originating. I was just saying that even though @MacKaRant can't spell, we still have no prospects.

Okay good I figured you remembered, just wasn't sure.

 

[Muffin]

I mean the logical thing to do is to trade Girard and replace him with Behrens. I'm not that worried about Byram's health considering his injury isn't a concussion.

 

[Alienblood]

I mean the logical thing to do is to trade Girard and replace him with Behrens. I'm not that worried about Byram's health considering his injury isn't a concussion.

Rather trade Behrens for something at the deadline and keep our D intact.

I know salary cap but would rather see what the team looks like healthy and go smaller game hunting at the deadline

 

[dahrougem2]

If the Avs go on a bit of a run here, I'll almost be convinced that they will be comfortable playing J.T. Compher as the 2C and looking for a different centre for the 3rd line. Names like Nick Bonino, Pius Suter, Oskar Sundqvist, and Sean Monahan come to mind. Obviously Monahan costs way more cap than the others. For argument's sake say it is Bonino, the Avs could be looking at:

Lehkonen - MacKinnon - Rodrigues
Nichushkin - Compher - Rantanen
Landeskog - Bonino - Newhook/Malgin
Cogliano - Helm - O'Connor

Not the worst thing in the world, but also a clear step below last season's Cup winning team.

 

[henchman21]

I mean the logical thing to do is to trade Girard and replace him with Behrens. I'm not that worried about Byram's health considering his injury isn't a concussion.

Concussions are not the only injuries that players can be prone to. Byram is a guy without a large frame that takes an absurd amount of hits. He averages near 8 per 60 (7.84). That is a crazy high amount for a guy who isn't built like a tank. We all though Timmins took way too many (and he did/does) and his average was around 6 per. EJ is around 5, G around 4, Makar and Toews are in the 2s.

Of defensemen who have played 500+ minutes combined over the past 3 seasons, Byram's rate is 27th highest out of 265 defensemen. The types of defensemen around him, Nemeth, Risto, Carlo, Hutton... there is really nobody built like Byram who is high on that list and avoids injuries. The closest is Romanov.. which Russians are weirdly able to do this, but he's also pushing 220. He's a tank. Byram has to stop getting hit so often, his game has to change in that manner. He's not built to take that level of beating.