2022-2023 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[Louie the Blue]

I understand people maybe being frustrated with Armstrong given his decisions and how this season played out, which people have a right to their opinion, but I’m at least grateful he didn’t do what the Flyers and Fletcher did which was absolutely nothing.

 

[Brian39]

I agree with this to an extent. I think he is targeting being a bad but exciting team next year. We will be playing several 7+ goal games. He is grabbing goal socrers and doing nothing to fix our defense or loss of PK Cs. Now he still has time, but he is eating cap space on one dimensional boom-bust offensive minded wingers.

Our NHL wing depth for 2023/24 following the Barby trade was Buch, Kyrou, Saad, Neighbours, and Walker. We've since signed Blais to a $1M extension. Middle 6 offensive production from the wings was absolutely an area of need and as much as I like Snuggy and Bolduc, neither can be counted on for middle 6 production in 2023/24. Fixing the D and bringing in a center doesn't accomplish much if your 3rd, 4th, and 5th wingers are Saad, Neighbours, and Blais.

We tangibly needed 2 more middle 6 wingers. Kap and Vrana combine for $5.825M against the cap. How would you more effectively fill those holes for less against the cap without giving up assets or term? I get that these aren't the only issues to address, but they were things that did have to be addressed.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And just imagine if that 9th spot is Bedard, Fantilli, or Carlsson. I obviously don't think Army is counting on that, but it's absolutely in the back of their minds as a legitimate possibility, even if it's just a slight one.

 

[Majorityof1]

Our NHL wing depth for 2023/24 following the Barby trade was Buch, Kyrou, Saad, Neighbours, and Walker. We've since signed Blais to a $1M extension. Middle 6 offensive production from the wings was absolutely an area of need and as much as I like Snuggy and Bolduc, neither can be counted on for middle 6 production in 2023/24. Fixing the D and bringing in a center doesn't accomplish much if your 3rd, 4th, and 5th wingers are Saad, Neighbours, and Blais.

We tangibly needed 2 more middle 6 wingers. Kap and Vrana combine for $5.825M against the cap. How would you more effectively fill those holes for less against the cap without giving up assets or term? I get that these aren't the only issues to address, but they were things that did have to be addressed.

Saad is better than Vrana or Kap. Schenn would be shifted to wing if we brought in 2 Cs instead, so that would mean we only needed one more wing. Kyrou, Buch, Saad and Schenn are much better top 6 wings than Kyrou, Buch, Vrana and Kapanen. What happens if Vrana never recovers and sucks ass? How good are we then with Schenn at C and a drugged out, washed up former 30-goals scorer who can't play defense and costs $2.75M (or whatever it is) in our top 6?

 

[bleedblue1223]

And he's "eating" cap space on guys with 1 year left. Sure, we can argue that cap space is valuable, but Army has stated he wants guys with short term, and I'm not sure there is better use of the money spent on Kap and Vrana if we are strictly looking at guys with 1 year of term.

Not saying Army is only looking at guys with 1 year, just that those 2 spots were likely being targeted for 1 year of term.

I think the main miss was not claiming Tolvanen, but having Kap instead of Tolvanen is not going to have any impact on how successful our retool/rebuild is.

 

[LGB]

Saad is better than Vrana or Kap. Schenn would be shifted to wing if we brought in 2 Cs instead, so that would mean we only needed one more wing. Kyrou, Buch, Saad and Schenn are much better top 6 wings than Kyrou, Buch, Vrana and Kapanen. What happens if Vrana never recovers and sucks ass? How good are we then with Schenn at C and a drugged out, washed up former 30-goals scorer who can't play defense and costs $2.75M (or whatever it is) in our top 6?

If we had to buy him out it would only add a 958k dead cap hit in 24/25

 

[Spektre]

And just imagine if that 9th spot is Bedard, Fantilli, or Carlsson. I obviously don't think Army is counting on that, but it's absolutely in the back of their minds as a legitimate possibility, even if it's just a slight one.

Please let this happen and not draft Erik Johnson

 

[Majorityof1]

If we had to buy him out it would only add a 958k dead cap hit in 24/25

That's even worse than waiving him and taking a $1.5 or whatever cap loss for the rest of next year. Next year is going to be a down year. It will be more down if he sucks, but not much we can do about it after the season starts. I'd prefer to take our lumps next year and not carry over the $1M dead cap from a buy out of a 1 year player.

 

[Spektre]

Kapanen Thomas Buchnevich
Vrana Alexendrov Kyrou
Saad Schenn Blais
Pitlick/Leivo Brown Toropchenko


It could be worse but I wouldn't mind seeing those lines

 

[Majorityof1]

And just imagine if that 9th spot is Bedard, Fantilli, or Carlsson. I obviously don't think Army is counting on that, but it's absolutely in the back of their minds as a legitimate possibility, even if it's just a slight one.

The chances are super slim of that happening. If it does, great, you can always make room for an ELC. Planning on it and making moves with that in mind is dumb. I'm not talking about Army counting on draffting a NHL ready C, that is obvisouly dumb. It is dumb to even consider it or have it in your mind at all. Plan as if it is absolutely not going to happen and then be pleasantly surprised if it does.

 

[LGB]

That's even worse than waiving him and taking a $1.5 or whatever cap loss for the rest of next year. Next year is going to be a down year. It will be more down if he sucks, but not much we can do about it after the season starts. I'd prefer to take our lumps next year and not carry over the $1M dead cap from a buy out of a 1 year player.

Yes. The absolute worst case scenario is worse than not acquiring him at all. What if he plays well though and we flip him for a 2nd next year? Very low risk move.

 

[Majorityof1]

Kapanen Thomas Buchnevich
Vrana Alexendrov Kyrou
Saad Schenn Blais
Pitlick/Leivo Brown Toropchenko


It could be worse but I wouldn't mind seeing those lines

You are almost making me cry with how bad that looks.

 

[Spektre]

You are almost making me cry with how bad that looks.

I'm trying to spread out the pain

 

[Majorityof1]

Yes. The absolute worst case scenario is worse than not acquiring him at all. What if he plays well though and we flip him for a 2nd next year? Very low risk move.

No its not. The downside of him not working out isn't the cap implications, its the opportunity cost of what we could have done with that money instead.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The chances are super slim of that happening. If it does, great, you can always make room for an ELC. Planning on it and making moves with that in mind is dumb. I'm not talking about Army counting on draffting a NHL ready C, that is obvisouly dumb. It is dumb to even consider it or have it in your mind at all. Plan as if it is absolutely not going to happen and then be pleasantly surprised if it does.

Couldn't disagree more. We'll know if it's a possibility before we can make a move, so you absolutely plan for every possible scenario. Just how our scouts should be scouting Bedard/Fantilli/Carlsson/Michkov just as much as Dvorsky/Moore/etc. If we win the #1 or #2 pick, we better know those guys inside and out. With the top pick, maybe not as much since Bedard is the obvious pick, but anyone that has potential to get the #2 pick will absolutely being doing all the prep work required for them. You don't want to wait until you win the lotto, to then start the deep dive on them.

They have scenarios for next season based on all 3 of them, and if we pick where we end up in the standings.

 

[LGB]

No its not. The downside of him not working out isn't the cap implications, its the opportunity cost of what we could have done with that money instead.

Pretty low opportunity cost IMO. Not much you can do with the cap space he takes up, and you get almost all of it back if you buy him out.

 

[Majorityof1]

Pretty low opportunity cost IMO. Not much you can do with the cap space he takes up, and you get almost all of it back if you buy him out.

Pretty low upside. The best he can bring back in picks is a 2nd. More likely a 3rd or 4th. We could get that just selling $2M in cap space as a 3rd party ina deadline deal.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

My first 7 priorities this offseason would be to get Krug off the team.

 

[Majorityof1]

Couldn't disagree more. We'll know if it's a possibility before we can make a move, so you absolutely plan for every possible scenario. Just how our scouts should be scouting Bedard/Fantilli/Carlsson/Michkov just as much as Dvorsky/Moore/etc. If we win the #1 or #2 pick, we better know those guys inside and out. With the top pick, maybe not as much since Bedard is the obvious pick, but anyone that has potential to get the #2 pick will absolutely being doing all the prep work required for them. You don't want to wait until you win the lotto, to then start the deep dive on them.

They have scenarios for next season based on all 3 of them, and if we pick where we end up in the standings.

I was not referring to scouting at all, but roster construction. They should absolutely be scouting those guys because there is a downside to not scouting them. If we do win the lottery and haven't scouted them (less so if we win #1OA), that could hurt us by drafting the wrong guy.

There is zero problem if we get an NHL ready player with our pick and planned not to have one. There is no down side at all for that. It is zero problem to fit an ELC onto any team that has a contract spot. Waive anyone and it more than covers the cap of the ELC. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. The roster construction plan should assume whoever we draft isn't ready and then slide him in if he is.

 

[LGB]

Pretty low upside. The best he can bring back in picks is a 2nd. More likely a 3rd or 4th. We could get that just selling $2M in cap space as a 3rd party ina deadline deal.

So it's a low risk move with some upside. Seems good to me.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I was not referring to scouting at all, but roster construction. They should absolutely be scouting those guys because there is a downside to not scouting them. If we do win the lottery and haven't scouted them (less so if we win #1OA), that could hurt us by drafting the wrong guy.

There is zero problem if we get an NHL ready player with our pick and planned not to have one. There is no down side at all for that. It is zero problem to fit an ELC onto any team that has a contract spot. Waive anyone and it more than covers the cap of the ELC. Hope for the best but plan for the worst. The roster construction plan should assume whoever we draft isn't ready and then slide him in if he is.

It's still about timeline though. I don't think we ever set to have our top 9 set by the trade deadline, and we'll know if we are getting one of those 3 prior to free agency and trade season opening back up again. Again, I'm not arguing that we purposely left a spot available on the hope that we get Bedard, but it is one of a handful of scenarios that they are probably putting some amount of thought into.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Trade Krug, tell RoR if he signs back with us he can be in every CarSheild Commercial until the end of the universe and free dental care with a discount. WIN/WIN

 

[Majorityof1]

It's still about timeline though. I don't think we ever set to have our top 9 set by the trade deadline, and we'll know if we are getting one of those 3 prior to free agency and trade season opening back up again. Again, I'm not arguing that we purposely left a spot available on the hope that we get Bedard, but it is one of a handful of scenarios that they are probably putting some amount of thought into.

The timeline does make the discussion kind of moot. But even if we do win Bedard, I'd still plan as if he may not be NHL ready. Because it doesn't hurt to do so. I might spend less cap on a 9th top 9 guy than I would otherwise. But I want someone there just in case.

 

[Brian39]

Saad is better than Vrana or Kap. Schenn would be shifted to wing if we brought in 2 Cs instead, so that would mean we only needed one more wing. Kyrou, Buch, Saad and Schenn are much better top 6 wings than Kyrou, Buch, Vrana and Kapanen. What happens if Vrana never recovers and sucks ass? How good are we then with Schenn at C and a drugged out, washed up former 30-goals scorer who can't play defense and costs $2.75M (or whatever it is) in our top 6?

How are you getting affordable 2Cs without giving up significant assets and/or committing significant term that will hurt the team in the future? If sliding Schenn to wing is part of the solution then we would need a 2C and a 3C. Neither of those is obtainable in UFA without giving up substantial term and cap commitment. Neither is obtainable via trade without giving up good assets and the ones on the market usually have a fairly significant cap hits.

Sliding Schenn to LW to plug the gaping need for middle 6 wings means that we need to acquire a legitimate 2C (in addition to the 3C we already need). Have you looked at the upcoming UFA market? Unless ROR is willing to come back for a great discount (that he wasn't ready to sign for the last 8 months), who do you propose we sign?

Do you want to try to be the highest bidder on a 5+ year deal for Max Domi? Hold out hope that Bergeron and Krejci decide not to retire and want to try life on a new NHL team?

That's the entire list of 30+ point UFA centers, so is the plan to bargain shop and hope that the Staal brothers or Toews want to turn back time in St. Louis? See if Nick Bjugstad or Freddy Gaudreau can put together their first 45 point season in year 1 of a 3 year deal? All of those seem like catastrophic 2C downgrades from Schenn to me.

Is the plan to trade for a legit 2C making around what Schenn is making? How many of the assets that we just acquired is that going to take? Is such a guy even on the market?

I agree with you that acquiring a legit 2C and 3C would be a better addition than Kap and Vrana. I have no clue how to do that without gutting the prospect pool, paying way more money, and taking on bad term. Acquiring farily cheap middle 6 talent for nothing sounds like a much better use of cap dollars and assets than opening up a 2C hole to plug.

 

[STL fan in MN]

So basically confirms what @bleedblue1223 was saying, we just need to find that middle 6 center up front. I like it.

A middle 6 center you say…