2022-2023 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread
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PocketNines
Cutter's Way
I could see a team like that getting third in the division and bowing out in round 1
They had Letang who is better than anyone we have now, even if you think of them as outliers as champs they were at least average
Majorityof1
Registered User
With what cap? This goes back to the Kapanen pickup. He ate any cap we would have to be in the market for a guy like Larkin. If we don't move anyone else, and if we call up Hofer, Alexandrov, Walker and Neighbours, we still need 5 forwards. Even at league minimum on 4 players that would leave us $6.5M in cap space to offer Larkin. No way he is signing for that.
Buch - Thomas - Kyrou
Saad - Schenn - XXXX
Neighbours - XXXXX - Kapanen
xxxxx - Alexandrov - XXXX
Walker - XXXXX
Krug - Faulk
Leddy - PArayko
Scandella - Bortuzzo
Rosen
Binner
Hofer
Cap hit - $73.94M
Space for XXXX;s - $9.56
bleedblue1223
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Just go with the assumption that Army has a plan to create room for that type of an acquisition. I know you think Army has no long-term plan, but he's earned a little bit of faith in being able to string multiple moves together that ends with a big fish acquisition.
ChicagoBlues
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Majorityof1
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Again, putting words in my mouth. I don't think he has no plan. But plans don't always work. What is a plan but a series of things that will not happen exactly like that, "Man plans and god laughs".
His plan is to move one of our D. But then we have to replace said D. And we might not be able to move the D we would really like to move, which means we move Parayko. And maybe we can't get a near ready D prospect for him. Then do we sign a D or sign Larkin? There are a ton of moving parts and our cap space is tight. Its a needle that he can maybe thread....but he can also miss.
Linkens Mastery
Conductor of the TankTown Express
Letang didn't play a game in the 2017 Playoffs due to injury.
bleedblue1223
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Maybe it's all the build up of multiple posters either acting like Armstrong destroyed the team, isn't capable of rebuilding it, making a lot of assumptions based on rumors, etc. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but I will probably remain somewhat snarky to posts that seem like they are snarky towards me. I don't really want to interact like that, but that's how I am.
That being said, we know Army showed interest in Meier, so I will continue to believe that he'll show interest in other forwards of similar age and younger that also possess 1st line talent/production, and I'll operate on the assumption that Army will be able to open up the cap space for such move. We also had a rumor that in the revamp of the defense, they want to go a bit cheaper. I think at the end of the grand plan, we'll have more invested in the forwards and a bit less invested in the defense. We'll see what it all looks like over the next 1-2 years.
Majorityof1
Registered User
I have been skeptical that Army can pull off a rebuild, and I do think he has made bad moves that directly led to where we are now. So to an extent yes, that is me. But at the same time, I recognize there is two sides to every story. Army has issues but he also has some skills. I would not be surprised if he masterfully pulled off the rebuild or if he f***ed it up royally, or anything in between.
The interest in Meier was before Kapanen. Whether that changes the strategy or not, I don't know. But that is $2M+ in cap we don't have that we did then ($2M+ is Kapanen's $3.2M minus $750-$1M on replacement level player we'd need to sign to fill his roster spot).
Edit: If I was being snarky toward you, that's just how I argue. Sorry. I respect you as a poster, and just disagree with you on this issue which makes a fun argument.
ChicagoBlues
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It is really hard to keep tabs on such a fluid process. I think that is what you're really saying here.
bleedblue1223
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Alright, cool, wasn't sure how things were coming across and didn't want things going sideways.
Now, I'd agree a successful rebuild with a revamped D is going to be very difficult. One of my biggest worries with it is we move Parayko and don't have anyone capable of playing those minutes. That combined with no center capable of replacing ROR is a recipe for a lot of goals against and a top 5 pick next season. Now I don't agree with some of the defensive deployments that basically screw Parayko, but it does signal to me that that understand the issue that he's the only one capable of those minutes, so I'll have faith that they'll target someone decent enough to replace him. I think they miscalculated in building this top 4, but I don't anticipate them repeating those mistakes.
Now, I don't think we'll be able to sign Larkin, but I do believe Army would reach out, and create the cap space if the interest in mutual. Ideally Army can get someone that won't cost 9+, but we'll see how things play out. A lot depends on what he's able to ship out of the defense and then we'll have a better idea of realistic targets. Hell, even the draft lotto can provide some clarity if we are able to win 1 or 2.
I think I'm just a bit more open-minded since we are so early in the process and as outsiders don't have a good feel for what our cap situation will be at the draft or when UFA season opens. Army probably has a pretty good idea on what salary he can move out. I feel very confident about our forwards moving forward, especially if part of the plan is acquiring a 22-26 year old that can come in and provide top 6 production immediately. That, along with what we currently have at the NHL level, and with Snuggerud, Bolduc, and our likely top 10 pick this year, I believe is a solid forward core to compete with. Acquire the more specific player types like a shutdown center along the way if we need it. Defense is the key, and we likely agree, that will be a difficult task, not just in acquiring the pieces we need, but shipping out the pieces that we need shipped out.
Celtic Note
Living the dream
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All we need is two generational centers.
2017 Penguins would like to have a word.
Letang was injured in 2017 and did not play.
PocketNines
Cutter's Way
Yeah, got it, we'll go with the "get two generational caliber forwards and shoot the moon with a defending champion squad approach" then, good plan
PocketNines
Cutter's Way
So we have our 3d and Ottawa's 3d, which again right now are 73 & 74. I wonder how high of a second those two combined would reach
I'm perfectly fine with us getting 2 generational centers.
Renard
Registered User
Chief is calling out many of the players for playing without passion (and for good reason).
I don't see how he can motivate them. The management gave up on the team, and the fans (at least the members of this forum) are rooting for finishing at the bottom of the league.
I guess trying to embarrass them in public is all that is left for him.
I don't see how he can motivate them. The management gave up on the team, and the fans (at least the members of this forum) are rooting for finishing at the bottom of the league.
I guess trying to embarrass them in public is all that is left for him.
STL fan in MN
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I can’t say I’ve seen a ton of Dean’s play to have much of an opinion on if he projects better at C or LW but there is one thing I remember.
During the WJC gold medal game vs the Czechs, Canada was getting absolutely dominated on faceoffs and the Canadian fans in the GDT kept clamoring for Dean to be put on the ice for more faceoffs. What I recall is some of them saying he’s one of the best faceoff specialists in all of Jr hockey. It was simply a passing comment to me at the time as I had no particular interest in Dean a couple months ago but that’s what I remember. So if he’s really that above average at faceoffs and he can continue that into the pro game, I’d expect him to stay at C unless there are other facets of his game that are lacking that would make LW make more sense.
The only thing I read in the last day about Dean in the last day was from I think Pronman. He said Dean could be a 2nd or 3rd line winger but if he says at C, he’s more of a 3C or 4C. Everything else seems to laser in on him being a future 3C.
Neighbours is a LW and unless Bolduc can transition to C at the same time he adjusts from Jrs to pros (doubtful IMO), he’s also a LW. We really need Dean to be a C from an organizational POV IMO.
Honestly I'm liking all of these moves that the Eastern Conference teams are doing. Now if they can just knock out the Leafs and Rangers in the first round and Dallas can fall out of the top spot in the division then those picks are looking so much better
bleedblue1223
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If he's strong in faceoffs, then I love this move even more. That's a skill, that if he's able to translate it, can guarantee that he can get NHL games, assuming the other parts of his game are somewhat decent. Even if it's just as a 4th line guy, having someone that can be a faceoff ace is an important thing to have on a roster. When we had ROR and Bozak, that was one of the big advantages those teams had.
STL fan in MN
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PocketNines
Cutter's Way
It's hard to understand how a serious offer for Meier could have been made if Armstrong didn't know what moves he could make to accommodate that salary, and that's the basis for suggesting an exploration with Larkin if he reaches the market.
When you listen to Armstrong's press conferences it's clear he sees his credibility with players as "I need to supply my group with a team capable of really competing every year for them to continue to listen to me when I come in the room and tell them what's what." We've discussed how he is not in the mindset of a long rebuild. What the room understands is there's been a talent exodus over the last 12 months, but they are also capable of understanding from a business perspective why UFA age players are going if the team isn't winning. If he can say, yes, this is what happens when the team underperforms, I will do my business job and move people but that also doesn't mean I won't try to reset the table each year, then I think that is what he means when he's putting his portion on himself of needing to do their best to help that team compete.
It's because of this read on Armstrong, combined with there being an open spot in the top six (center more so than wing), that leads me to suggest Larkin. That specific player could very easily not be available and if so then I expect another trade like the Buchnevich one to acquire a top six. They could run Schenn as 2C for a year or so but I sense they don't want a top two of Thomas and Schenn. Now a big piece of this puzzle is who they draft with their high pick this year and what that player's timeline is. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't bring in the top six addition and when the draftee arrives it pushes out someone like Saad.
They will likely re-sign Blais for close to what he's making right now and same with Toropchenko, and any raises they get can probably be offset by the 500K savings going from Greiss to Hofer. The bottom six group next year will likely have Neighbours, Kapanen, Blais, Toropchenko, Walker, Alexandrov in it with Dean not long away. (Brown, Leivo and Pitlick out.) It's going to be pretty cheap. But I expect one more bigger salary in the top six coming in and he's very likely to move a defenseman to make more room.
When you listen to Armstrong's press conferences it's clear he sees his credibility with players as "I need to supply my group with a team capable of really competing every year for them to continue to listen to me when I come in the room and tell them what's what." We've discussed how he is not in the mindset of a long rebuild. What the room understands is there's been a talent exodus over the last 12 months, but they are also capable of understanding from a business perspective why UFA age players are going if the team isn't winning. If he can say, yes, this is what happens when the team underperforms, I will do my business job and move people but that also doesn't mean I won't try to reset the table each year, then I think that is what he means when he's putting his portion on himself of needing to do their best to help that team compete.
It's because of this read on Armstrong, combined with there being an open spot in the top six (center more so than wing), that leads me to suggest Larkin. That specific player could very easily not be available and if so then I expect another trade like the Buchnevich one to acquire a top six. They could run Schenn as 2C for a year or so but I sense they don't want a top two of Thomas and Schenn. Now a big piece of this puzzle is who they draft with their high pick this year and what that player's timeline is. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't bring in the top six addition and when the draftee arrives it pushes out someone like Saad.
They will likely re-sign Blais for close to what he's making right now and same with Toropchenko, and any raises they get can probably be offset by the 500K savings going from Greiss to Hofer. The bottom six group next year will likely have Neighbours, Kapanen, Blais, Toropchenko, Walker, Alexandrov in it with Dean not long away. (Brown, Leivo and Pitlick out.) It's going to be pretty cheap. But I expect one more bigger salary in the top six coming in and he's very likely to move a defenseman to make more room.
joe galiba
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Celtic Note
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So as mentioned elsewhere we have 8 roster spots to fill and $10.3M to do it next year. Of all the holes we need to plug the biggest are some of the priciest to fill. By my estimation we need a 1A/1B center and a #1D if we are serious about competing. We don’t have to fill those roles next year, as (even with both those players added to the roster and currently we don’t have the cap to do it) we still would not be a competitor.
We need a lot of young guys to mature to get to even the pretender phase. So, what is the likelihood of Stillman signing off on spending to the cap next year if we are not in compete mode? We all have heard the stories of needing to get into the playoffs to make any money. Will the ownership group be willing to lose more money by spending to the cap next year without much hope for playoff revenue so they can speed up our retool (but looking more like a rebuild at this point)?
We need a lot of young guys to mature to get to even the pretender phase. So, what is the likelihood of Stillman signing off on spending to the cap next year if we are not in compete mode? We all have heard the stories of needing to get into the playoffs to make any money. Will the ownership group be willing to lose more money by spending to the cap next year without much hope for playoff revenue so they can speed up our retool (but looking more like a rebuild at this point)?
Linkens Mastery
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