2022-2023 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[bleedblue1223]

In the 14 games Brown has played, we've won 1 of them. Bedard here we come.

 

[Xerloris]

Just curious where people rank the draft 123 picks. If we did win the lottery and drafted Bedard, would anyone be willing to trade our "3" other 1st round picks for 2nd or 3rd over all? Assuming we get a 1st for Barbie that gives us 3. Would the 2nd or 3rd player be worth it do you think?

 

[Bluesnatic27]

Just curious where people rank the draft 123 picks. If we did win the lottery and drafted Bedard, would anyone be willing to trade our "3" other 1st round picks for 2nd or 3rd over all? Assuming we get a 1st for Barbie that gives us 3. Would the 2nd or 3rd player be worth it do you think?

Yes, but the teams there wouldn’t trade them.

The top-4 of this draft is astonishingly good. Fantilli, Carlsson, and Michkov could have all been 1st overall last year had they been eligible. So the teams in the top-3 spots are not giving up those picks for anything that isn’t a massive overpayment. Michkov will fall but that’s because of reasons beyond his play or talent.

 

[Frenzy31]

I feel that Barby will bring in a 24 1st. With that, and one of the 2023 picks and Scandella/Krug we can move to pick up a LHD. My guess is Provonov from Phili. Mirror the Schenn deal.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I feel that Barby will bring in a 24 1st. With that, and one of the 2023 picks and Scandella/Krug we can move to pick up a LHD. My guess is Provonov from Phili. Mirror the Schenn deal.

Yes, if we trade Barbie for a 1st, I want it for next year. We need to stagger these cuz if we have too many great players all at once, we will certainly have cap issues.

Then again, DA will probably trade one of ours this years.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

The reactions from the Blues players to the RoR trade feel much different from the Tarasenko trade

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

The reactions from the Blues players to the RoR trade feel much different from the Tarasenko trade

They know tank had checked out. ROR deal was different. His trade marks end of greatest era in blues hockey.

 

[Renard]

I love the old timey sayings.

My father in law pronounces sundae as "sun-da" and I have to hold back the giggles every time he orders it. Of course this is the same guy who still calls Covid "the Covis" so as you can probably imagine he's an endless source of hilarious for me.

The story is that some people thought it was sacrilegious to call an ice cream desert "sunday" so people called it "sunda" instead.

 

[Celtic Note]

So army references a LA rebuild as the model.
I am wondering what we can learn from them and do we think it’s a good approach to emulate.

They kept their top 3 key Cup winning players throughout the process. Kopitar, Doughty and Quick. Quick is sort of irrelevant. Kopitar is our ROR, who is gone (maybe he could come back) and Doughty is our Petro comparable, who is gone. I think the model is very different from anything we could accomplish. We kept the complementary core players instead of the primary core, aside from Binnington.

Their top picks starting in 2017 are as follows:
2017 - 11th
2018 - 20th
2019 - 5th & 22nd
2020 - 2nd
2021 - 8th

So they had 3 years of really hitting bottom. We are in year one. This year will be comparable to their 2021 draft. We will need two more worse years than this one if we are to closely align with their drafts.

The jury is still out if LA will be a contender.

 

[Mike Liut]

So army references a LA rebuild as the model.
I am wondering what we can learn from them and do we think it’s a good approach to emulate.

They kept their top 3 key Cup winning players throughout the process. Kopitar, Doughty and Quick. Quick is sort of irrelevant. Kopitar is our ROR, who is gone (maybe he could come back) and Doughty is our Petro comparable, who is gone. I think the model is very different from anything we could accomplish. We kept the complementary core players instead of the primary core, aside from Binnington.

Their top picks starting in 2017 are as follows:
2017 - 11th
2018 - 20th
2019 - 5th & 22nd
2020 - 2nd
2021 - 8th

So they had 3 years of really hitting bottom. We are in year one.

The jury is still out if LA will be a contender.

I’d like to know what prospects that had in their minors prior to 2017 who are contributing now. And what players besides Kopitar, Quick and Doughty were part of the rebuild.

I ask this to compare what we currently have on our roster and prospects at the start of a rebuild to theirs

It seems we have a good foundation to start with Thomas, Kyrou, Buch, Snuggs, Bolduc, Binny, Neighbors +
2023 - 3- 1sts (top 7 + 2 late 1sts)
2023 - 2nd (Barbs) hypothetically
2023 - 3 - thirds
2024 - top 7 (more than likely)

 

[Celtic Note]

Other LA rebuild moves of note are the acquisitions of Fiala and Arvisson via trade. Signed Danault.

That cost them 1st, 2nd, 3rd and Brock Faber (a 2020 - 2nd round pick).

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think what he means is simply draft well for about 3 years of below .500 hockey, develop the existing prospects that you already had, and acquire some aged appropriate pieces along the way. Another recent example would be the Rangers, but the key difference is we don't have Kopitar and Doughty like LA, and we don't have the market to bring someone in like Panarin or Fox. We at least have some of the new core already in place with Thomas/Kyrou, and potentially some solid, but non elite vets with Schenn and then possibly with what is left of the defense, Parayko or Faulk.

I definitely see Army looking at this season as year 1, next season as a pure transition from the start with a reasonable expectation of another top 5/10 pick, and then year 3, that will still be a possibility, but a bigger push to make a competitive team.

I'm hoping we keep our picks this season, and knock it out of the park. Getting 3+ 1sts in the 1st year of a rebuild can really kick start the process, if we pick well.

 

[Celtic Note]

I’d like to know what prospects that had in their minors prior to 2017 who are contributing now. And what players besides Kopitar, Quick and Doughty were part of the rebuild.

I ask this to compare what we currently have on our roster and prospects at the start of a rebuild to theirs

It seems we have a good foundation to start with Thomas, Kyrou, Buch, Snuggs, Bolduc, Binny, Neighbors +
2023 - 3- 1sts (top 7 + 2 late 1sts)
2023 - 2nd (Barbs) hypothetically
2023 - 3 - thirds
2024 - top 7 (more than likely)

Lizzotte undrafted 18-19 signing.

Iafallo was undrafted and signed contract for 17-18 season.

Moore was undrafted and signed 16-17 season.

All their other forwards were drafted 2017 or later…other than players acquired as noted on previous post. Oh, forgot Brendan Lemiux. But he isn’t some core player or anything.

 

[Celtic Note]

I think what he means is simply draft well for about 3 years of below .500 hockey, develop the existing prospects that you already had, and acquire some aged appropriate pieces along the way. Another recent example would be the Rangers, but the key difference is we don't have Kopitar and Doughty like LA, and we don't have the market to bring someone in like Panarin or Fox. We at least have some of the new core already in place with Thomas/Kyrou, and potentially some solid, but non elite vets with Schenn and then possibly with what is left of the defense, Parayko or Faulk.

I definitely see Army looking at this season as year 1, next season as a pure transition from the start with a reasonable expectation of another top 5/10 pick, and then year 3, that will still be a possibility, but a bigger push to make a competitive team.

I'm hoping we keep our picks this season, and knock it out of the park. Getting 3+ 1sts in the 1st year of a rebuild can really kick start the process, if we pick well.

I get that he meant it in a general view. My question is how realistic is to match what they have done to become competitive in a timeframe that equates to a retool and not a rebuild?

Also, are the LA or NYC models good enough to position ourselves to be true contenders? LA hasn’t demonstrated that yet. But, they are too early in their mini-rebuild to be able to tell us that yet.

NYC has some promise. They haven’t shown it quite yet. Their old core is still leading the charge and is younger than ours when you factor in projected competition timelines.

Their draft was in part augmented with draft lottery luck even though those picks haven’t panned out as expected.

Here is a breakdown of NYC’s 1st since 2017. They, like LA, seemed to quit being buyers based on their 1st round draft picks at that time.

2017 - 7 & 21
2018 - 9, 22 & 28
2019 - 2
2020 - 1 & 19
2021 - 16

 

[bleedblue1223]

I get that he meant it in a general view. My question is how realistic is to match what they have done to become competitive in a timeframe that equates to a retool and not a rebuild?

Also, are the LA or NYC models good enough to position ourselves to be true contenders? LA hasn’t demonstrated that yet. But, they are too early in their mini-rebuild to be able to tell us that yet.

NYC has some promise. They haven’t shown it quite yet. Their old core is still leading the charge and is younger than ours when you factor in projected competition timelines.

Their draft was in part augmented with draft lottery luck even though those picks haven’t panned out as expected.

Here is a breakdown of NYC’s 1st since 2017. They, like LA, seemed to quit being buyers based on their 1st round draft picks at that time.

2017 - 7 & 21
2018 - 9, 22 & 28
2019 - 2
2020 - 1 & 19
2021 - 16

I think the big thing is defense. Since this draft doesn't have one at the top, we'll need to hit on a K'Andre Miller type that takes about 2 years after the draft to develop, and then is ready for 20+ minutes in the NHL. Maybe that can be Reinbacher, and maybe we have to trade up a bit?

I'm really not worried about our forward core. We have a young 1st line already in place, a couple really good prospects in Snuggerud and Bolduc, and we'll likely pick up another couple really good forward prospects in the draft. Forward is also one of the easier positions to pick up guys in trades/free agency along the way.

 

[PJJJP]

I get that he meant it in a general view. My question is how realistic is to match what they have done to become competitive in a timeframe that equates to a retool and not a rebuild?

Also, are the LA or NYC models good enough to position ourselves to be true contenders? LA hasn’t demonstrated that yet. But, they are too early in their mini-rebuild to be able to tell us that yet.

NYC has some promise. They haven’t shown it quite yet. Their old core is still leading the charge and is younger than ours, when you factor in projected competition timelines.

Their draft was in part augmented with draft lottery luck even though those picks haven’t panned out as expected.

Here is a breakdown of NYC’s 1st since 2017, they, like LA, seemed to quit being buyers based on their 1st round draft picks at that time.

2017 - 7 & 21
2018 - 9, 22 & 28
2019 - 2
2020 - 1 & 19
2021 - 16

Problem with trying to replicate the NYR retool is that we are not New York City. Trouba forced a trade to New York. Panarin wanted the big city lights. Fox forced a trade there. That's a top line winger, a Norris defensemen, and a top 4 defensemen. Most of their team has come from trades (Zibanejad, Lindgren, Fox, Trouba) or from UFA (Panarin, Goodrow, Trocheck.) The only players they have drafted that are playing in the top 6 of top 4 for them are Chytill, Kreider, and Miller. Though Kreider was taken in the 2009 draft. Laf and Kakko have been underwhelming. Kravstov has been disappointing. Andersson was a bust. Schneider has been ok in his limited role. Lundkvist was traded for a first. The only thing to take away here is to make opportunistic trades and hope they work out for you

 

[PocketNines]

The story is that some people thought it was sacrilegious to call an ice cream desert "sunday" so people called it "sunda" instead.

that's awesome ... the flying spaghetti monster was gonna f--- gramps up for using that word, a thing he believed ...

 

[PocketNines]

So army references a LA rebuild as the model.
I am wondering what we can learn from them and do we think it’s a good approach to emulate.

They kept their top 3 key Cup winning players throughout the process. Kopitar, Doughty and Quick. Quick is sort of irrelevant. Kopitar is our ROR, who is gone (maybe he could come back) and Doughty is our Petro comparable, who is gone. I think the model is very different from anything we could accomplish. We kept the complementary core players instead of the primary core, aside from Binnington.

Their top picks starting in 2017 are as follows:
2017 - 11th
2018 - 20th
2019 - 5th & 22nd
2020 - 2nd
2021 - 8th

So they had 3 years of really hitting bottom. We are in year one. This year will be comparable to their 2021 draft. We will need two more worse years than this one if we are to closely align with their drafts.

The jury is still out if LA will be a contender.

LA is not what I want the Blues to emulate and I don't think they are in any danger of being dangerous to other teams any time soon. I'd take it as more his mindset of "hey fans I know this is going to suck and you've seen a lot of teams suck for 5-7 years but we only want to suck for 3 years ... LA is an example of that." That is all I'd take away from it ... so much is out of his control at the moment. Another huge reason you better be right when you rip out your support beam, the risk of it taking much longer than you hope.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And obviously a GM isn't going to say let's follow the Edmonton or Buffalo model. Just simply draft and develop well, and make FA signings and trades that make sense along the way.

 

[Celtic Note]

LA is not what I want the Blues to emulate and I don't think they are in any danger of being dangerous to other teams any time soon. I'd take it as more his mindset of "hey fans I know this is going to suck and you've seen a lot of teams suck for 5-7 years but we only want to suck for 3 years ... LA is an example of that." That is all I'd take away from it ... so much is out of his control at the moment. Another huge reason you better be right when you rip out your support beam, the risk of it taking much longer than you hope.

I am just trying to figure out if the “suck only for 2-3 years” thing is realistic if we want to truly compete. I am having a hard time believing it. My logic brain says it’s too optimistic. My hopeful brain wants it to be true. So, I am looking at the supposed case studies to see if there is an validity to the hope. So far in the effort the logic brain hasn’t been terribly swayed.

Also, somewhat agreed about LA, but it depends how their D develop.

 

[Celtic Note]

And obviously a GM isn't going to say let's follow the Edmonton or Buffalo model. Just simply draft and develop well, and make FA signings and trades that make sense along the way.

Yeah, but there are plenty of other teams, as Army referenced, that have rebuilt. Honestly, we feel closer to Detroit. Aging contracts, prime core pieces leaving. Some talented young forwards (Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi) coming up, but none that are truly elite and a defense that needs significant improvement.

 

[PocketNines]

I am just trying to figure out if the “suck only for 2-3 years” thing is realistic if we want to truly compete. I am having a hard time believing it. My logic brain says it’s too optimistic. My hopeful brain wants it to be true. So, I am looking at the supposed case studies to see if there is an validity to the hope. So far in the effort the logic brain hasn’t been terribly swayed.

I totally agree and I think his hope is Blues are in position after this draft to be set up in net and up front for a relatively quick turnaround. It's the defense that's going to take significant reworking and that's going to take opportunism that none of us can count on.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, but there are plenty of other teams, as Army referenced, that have rebuilt. Honestly, we feel closer to Detroit. Aging contracts, prime core pieces leaving. Some talented young forwards (Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi) coming up, but none that are truly elite and a defense that needs significant improvement.

Even with them, they've had 6 straight years of top 10 picks, Army wants to tell the more casual fans that his plan is a quick 3 year rebuild, but ultimately that's up to the scouts. If you nail the picks, it'll be quick, if not it'll be longer.

If we draft like Detroit did in 17 and 18, then it'll be a long rebuild.

 

[PocketNines]

In terms of rooting for Blues 1st round picks to be the best they can be ...

First we want Dallas, NYR and Toronto each to not win their divisions in the regular season (Dallas is the focus here).

Second once they get into the playoffs we want those teams not to make the conference finals.

Third we want the other division winners also not to make the conference finals.

If all of that happened, then the Blues picks would be 23 and 24 at worst. Conference finalists get 29-32. Then come division winners who don't make the conference finals, up to 4 spots.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

LA is not what I want the Blues to emulate and I don't think they are in any danger of being dangerous to other teams any time soon. I'd take it as more his mindset of "hey fans I know this is going to suck and you've seen a lot of teams suck for 5-7 years but we only want to suck for 3 years ... LA is an example of that." That is all I'd take away from it ... so much is out of his control at the moment. Another huge reason you better be right when you rip out your support beam, the risk of it taking much longer than you hope.

While I agree LA doesn’t look to be Cup Contenders just yet, I have a feeling they’re gonna replace Kopitar’s expiring contract by signing Matthews in a couple years.

I know everyone has said Arizona or stay in Toronto, but I don’t see either happening. LA is the perfect fit for him in every aspect of life.