2022-2023 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[Linkens Mastery]

This is from Frank Seravelli's V-Day post where he was making mock trades.

Playing Hockey’s Doctor Love: 2023 Trade Deadline Matchmaker

Love is in the air. Which trade candidates and teams would be perfect for each other?

www.dailyfaceoff.com

To Winnipeg: Ivan Barbashev
To St. Louis: 2024 2nd Round Pick, Mason Appleton, Ville Heinola

To Dallas: Ryan O’Reilly
To St. Louis: 2024 1st Round Pick, Riley Damiani, Anton Khudobin, Blues retain half


I'd definitely say hell yes to the Winnipeg one, the Dallas one I'd question.

 

[PJJJP]

This is from Frank Seravelli's V-Day post where he was making mock trades.

Playing Hockey’s Doctor Love: 2023 Trade Deadline Matchmaker

Love is in the air. Which trade candidates and teams would be perfect for each other?

www.dailyfaceoff.com

To Winnipeg: Ivan Barbashev
To St. Louis: 2024 2nd Round Pick, Mason Appleton, Ville Heinola

To Dallas: Ryan O’Reilly
To St. Louis: 2024 1st Round Pick, Riley Damiani, Anton Khudobin, Blues retain half


I'd definitely say hell yes to the Winnipeg one, the Dallas one I'd question.

Yeah I think we could do better than the Dallas trade.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Closer than people probably think though. I know they don't have a 2023 1st, so I'd want a prospect a bit better due to waiting till 2024.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I definitely would do the Winnipeg deal. The Dallas deal I’m not thrilled about, but if that’s the best deal on the table you make it.

 

[Majorityof1]

This is from Frank Seravelli's V-Day post where he was making mock trades.

Playing Hockey’s Doctor Love: 2023 Trade Deadline Matchmaker

Love is in the air. Which trade candidates and teams would be perfect for each other?

www.dailyfaceoff.com

To Winnipeg: Ivan Barbashev
To St. Louis: 2024 2nd Round Pick, Mason Appleton, Ville Heinola

To Dallas: Ryan O’Reilly
To St. Louis: 2024 1st Round Pick, Riley Damiani, Anton Khudobin, Blues retain half


I'd definitely say hell yes to the Winnipeg one, the Dallas one I'd question.

I'd do the Winnipeg deal but only if we can retain on Barby rather than take Appleton.

Not a chance on the ROR trade. We can get a 2023 pick from someone. Damiani does not move the needle at all. The 31st pick in 2023 is worth more than Dallas' 2024 and Damiani. If it was the 2024 pick of a team that could decline next year, maybe that would change. But I don't expect Dallas to drop to a lottery team next year. It will be a late first in a weaker draft and one year further out in terms of when it will make an impact.

 

[Beauterham]

This is from Frank Seravelli's V-Day post where he was making mock trades.

Playing Hockey’s Doctor Love: 2023 Trade Deadline Matchmaker

Love is in the air. Which trade candidates and teams would be perfect for each other?

www.dailyfaceoff.com

To Winnipeg: Ivan Barbashev
To St. Louis: 2024 2nd Round Pick, Mason Appleton, Ville Heinola

To Dallas: Ryan O’Reilly
To St. Louis: 2024 1st Round Pick, Riley Damiani, Anton Khudobin, Blues retain half


I'd definitely say hell yes to the Winnipeg one, the Dallas one I'd question.

Yes to the WPG one, I'm not saying no to the Dallas one but I'd try to get a better prospect instead of Damiani, maybe Harley? Dallas have quite a few good young left handed defensemen (Heiskanen, Bichsel) so there might be an opening to get Harley.

 

[Brian39]

This is from Frank Seravelli's V-Day post where he was making mock trades.

Playing Hockey’s Doctor Love: 2023 Trade Deadline Matchmaker

Love is in the air. Which trade candidates and teams would be perfect for each other?

www.dailyfaceoff.com

To Winnipeg: Ivan Barbashev
To St. Louis: 2024 2nd Round Pick, Mason Appleton, Ville Heinola

To Dallas: Ryan O’Reilly
To St. Louis: 2024 1st Round Pick, Riley Damiani, Anton Khudobin, Blues retain half


I'd definitely say hell yes to the Winnipeg one, the Dallas one I'd question.

I'm not as crazy about the Winnipeg trade as others seem to be. Appleton's salary isn't huge, but I'm not sold that he's worth the $2.16M AAV and he's got 2 more years after this one. Maybe he is the type of guy that could look decent in a middle 6 role next year and get flipped for an asset, but I think taking him is essentially just eating money. Not sure I like Heinola enough to take back future dead money for Barby if I'm not getting a 1st AND the 2nd rounder is deferred until 2024. I think he is a decent prospect, but I'm not sure that his strengths match our needs and I think his ceiling falls a bit short of moving the needle in a meaningful way.

I want picks in this draft. If we're doing a 2nd and a prospect for Barby, then I want that 2nd to be in this draft. I'd compromise on that desire if things line up right, but I'm not eager to also take back future salary commitments to reach that compromise.

 

[Frenzy31]

I'm not as crazy about the Winnipeg trade as others seem to be. Appleton's salary isn't huge, but I'm not sold that he's worth the $2.16M AAV and he's got 2 more years after this one. Maybe he is the type of guy that could look decent in a middle 6 role next year and get flipped for an asset, but I think taking him is essentially just eating money. Not sure I like Heinola enough to take back future dead money for Barby if I'm not getting a 1st AND the 2nd rounder is deferred until 2024. I think he is a decent prospect, but I'm not sure that his strengths match our needs and I think his ceiling falls a bit short of moving the needle in a meaningful way.

I want picks in this draft. If we're doing a 2nd and a prospect for Barby, then I want that 2nd to be in this draft. I'd compromise on that desire if things line up right, but I'm not eager to also take back future salary commitments to reach that compromise.

I don't know anything about Heinola.

 

[TK 421]

I don't know anything about Heinola.

So.... it's safe to say you don't know shit from (S)Heinola?

 

[Frenzy31]

So.... it's safe to say you don't know shit from (S)Heinola?

So I have been told.

 

[TK 421]

So I have been told.

I love the old timey sayings.

My father in law pronounces sundae as "sun-da" and I have to hold back the giggles every time he orders it. Of course this is the same guy who still calls Covid "the Covis" so as you can probably imagine he's an endless source of hilarious for me.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I don't know anything about Heinola.

This is from Pronman, he has Jets ranked 13th and Heinola is their 4th ranked prospect.

4. Ville Heinola, LHD, 21 (Manitoba Moose/Winnipeg Jets)
Heinola’s got a strong foundation of quiet skills that have increasingly begun to get louder and louder. He reads and defends odd-man rushes extremely well, timing his slides and closes perfectly. He has always played a patient and poised two-way game built on efficiency rather than flair. He’s got four-way mobility which helps him escape pressure within his own zone and break teams down inside the offensive zone. He has always had a “heads-up” confidence. And he has, in the last two and a half seasons, really begun to use those tools in a more ambitious, attacking style to really look to dictate play more (while still taking what’s given). He’s more aggressive and intentional carrying the puck deep into the offensive zone more, activating with his feet instead of an outlet more, or looking to spin off checks or create through tight seams with some ingenuity. I’m confident he’s got more to offer at the NHL level than we’ve seen to date. He may well finish as a third-pairing guy in the end, but he’s capable of being more of a No. 4-5 than a No. 6-7 and I think he’ll get there once he builds more confidence.



He looked to be an offensive defenseman who isn't a compete travesty defensively. Good skating, good defensively against odd man rushes, good mobility. Honestly sounds like a young Leddy like player.

 

[LGB]

Krug + Faulk this season vs. last

	TOI	CF%	xGF/60	xGA/60	GF/60	GA/60
22/23	449.5	50	2.79	3.1	2.4	3.74
21/22	679.5	50.1	2.76	2.86	4.24	2.03

Obviously the results they put up last year were unsustainable, but I didn't expect them to crash this badly.

 

[Xerloris]

Krug + Faulk this season vs. last

	TOI	CF%	xGF/60	xGA/60	GF/60	GA/60
22/23	449.5	50	2.79	3.1	2.4	3.74
21/22	679.5	50.1	2.76	2.86	4.24	2.03

Obviously the results they put up last year were unsustainable, but I didn't expect them to crash this badly

Playing a different defensive system will do that, especially when the system is trash.

 

[bleedblue1223]

So, we are 11-4 without Tarasenko this year. I'm sure part of it is small sample size, but absolutely believe part of it is you can't have 2 RWs that need to be offensively sheltered like Kyrou and Tarasenko. It's basically the same as having Krug and Perunovich on the same roster.

 

[PJJJP]

Apparently the blues changed their forechecking system. The new system is now designed to limit the amount of odd man breaks by the opposition as well as quickly move the puck into the offensive zone as quickly as possible to limit the amount of time we spend in our own defensive zone. Took us until after the all star break to implement something new

 

[bleedblue1223]

JR had an interesting piece on the ROR/Thompson trade. In initial discussions, none of Thomas, Kyrou, Thompson were included, but Thomas/Kyrou were both viewed as untouchable, with Thompson being someone that Army would reluctantly include because Buffalo was insistent, so Army pivoted to negotiating the other parts of the trade harder to make it better for us, including Berglund and Sobotka.

Another interesting piece was that Buffalo knew St. Louis was coming back when we signed Perron and Bozak. So while, outsiders figured the deal fell through, Buffalo knew we just signed replacements for Berglund and Sobotka. Probably a lesson for us to let things play out as moves usually aren't done just on their own, and they have more impact on future moves.

 

[joe galiba]

Playing a different defensive system will do that, especially when the system is trash.

honestly, the numbers this year look just as unsustainably bad as the numbers last year looked unsustainably good

 

[ChicagoBlues]

honestly, the numbers this year look just as unsustainably bad as the numbers last year looked unsustainably good

Probably right about that. Funny

 

[PocketNines]

Darren Pang on Vladimir Tarasenko. Some very careful wording

 

[ezcreepin]

JR had an interesting piece on the ROR/Thompson trade. In initial discussions, none of Thomas, Kyrou, Thompson were included, but Thomas/Kyrou were both viewed as untouchable, with Thompson being someone that Army would reluctantly include because Buffalo was insistent, so Army pivoted to negotiating the other parts of the trade harder to make it better for us, including Berglund and Sobotka.

Another interesting piece was that Buffalo knew St. Louis was coming back when we signed Perron and Bozak. So while, outsiders figured the deal fell through, Buffalo knew we just signed replacements for Berglund and Sobotka. Probably a lesson for us to let things play out as moves usually aren't done just on their own, and they have more impact on future moves.

Did he happen to mention the other prospects that would've been included? I wonder if it wasn't a package of something like Perunovich, Kostin, and a 1st along with a cap dump or Bokk, Perunovich, and cap dump, or some combo of 2 players from Perunovich, Bokk, and Kostin matched with a pick and a cap dump. Looking back now I'd 100% take a deal of Perunovich, Bokk/Kostin, and a 1st for ROR.

I was thinking about this today and I just keep going back to Thompson's performance on the team. He never really showed a ton of NHL upside when he was with the club and even while in Buffalo, it took him a few seasons before he learned he needed to change the way he trained in the offseason. Factor in him playing center now (don't know if that really made him a more productive player), and now he is a bonafide superstar. It sort of irks me that his takeaway still seems to be that he was pigeon-holed into a spot on this team despite him clearly not being ready for top 6 minutes. He goes to Buffalo and is pigeon-holed again into basically the same role for about 3 years (had surgery in 2019-2020) before coming in ready for 22-23 having trained differently and now playing on an even worse team while being given an opportunity to play more minutes; Let's not forget though that it wasn't like he started off hot with more minutes. It took him like 27 games before he started to get on a role (not amazing nor bad but only 16pts in 27 games) nearly increasing his projected points by 22 (48pts projected to 68pts he got). Call it his coming out party, but got super lucky with how everything happened in Buffalo.

 

[BlueDream]

Did he happen to mention the other prospects that would've been included? I wonder if it wasn't a package of something like Perunovich, Kostin, and a 1st along with a cap dump or Bokk, Perunovich, and cap dump, or some combo of 2 players from Perunovich, Bokk, and Kostin matched with a pick and a cap dump. Looking back now I'd 100% take a deal of Perunovich, Bokk/Kostin, and a 1st for ROR.

I was thinking about this today and I just keep going back to Thompson's performance on the team. He never really showed a ton of NHL upside when he was with the club and even while in Buffalo, it took him a few seasons before he learned he needed to change the way he trained in the offseason. Factor in him playing center now (don't know if that really made him a more productive player), and now he is a bonafide superstar. It sort of irks me that his takeaway still seems to be that he was pigeon-holed into a spot on this team despite him clearly not being ready for top 6 minutes. He goes to Buffalo and is pigeon-holed again into basically the same role for about 3 years (had surgery in 2019-2020) before coming in ready for 22-23 having trained differently and now playing on an even worse team while being given an opportunity to play more minutes; Let's not forget though that it wasn't like he started off hot with more minutes. It took him like 27 games before he started to get on a role (not amazing nor bad but only 16pts in 27 games) nearly increasing his projected points by 22 (48pts projected to 68pts he got). Call it his coming out party, but got super lucky with how everything happened in Buffalo.

No the article didn’t mention other prospects the Blues may have been offering.

Also, I don’t hold that quote from Thompson against him, as both him and his dad acknowledged in the article that Thompson was not NHL ready at the time. Thompson admitted that while he was tall, he knew he was too weak and it took him a while to get strong enough to really belong in the NHL.

He overall seems like a pretty thoughtful guy that has a better understanding of everything now. I think that quote about being pigeon-holed was just him venting frustration at the time. He was still a young kid and the article kinda insinuates that he didn’t really know how to handle being traded.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, I came away from the article with a pretty positive view of Thompson, those quotes here were probably blown out of proportion and was more of just someone frustrated that he wasn't having success, sort of like Binnington when he had that interview of being upset when Brodeur came in, but realizing later that he really wasn't ready yet.

I think he was just a guy that like many, tall and lanky guys, takes a lot of time and effort to get muscle onto the frame. I'm really hoping for him and Buffalo this turns out like the Nieuwendyk/Iginla deal, but actually bringing a Cup to Buffalo.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

It would really suck to be breaking into the NHL, struggling to find a steady spot, get traded, and then watch the team including other guys your age go on a miraculous run to win the Stanley Cup. I don’t hold any comments against Tage. I’m happy for him.

 

[PocketNines]

I read a challenge made to the Blues community here yesterday on the key substantive Blues topic of whether Thomas was truly a good enough #1 center for a contender*. The challenge essentially was "I dare anyone to make an argument that Thomas isn't as good as Brayden Point."

Now, personally I saw this argument and thought oh boy, if Blues fans tell themselves this, they are setting themselves up for a real letdown, so I thought well, I'll explain why I don't think telling yourself you're better than you are is a good plan. For example, you can argue that Keith Tkachuk was amazing because of his regular season numbers when in reality he defined the role of "Guy who, when it matters, superior players push aside en route to winning." But all you would be doing is lying to yourself. Which the same person from yesterday did and does do about Keith Tkachuk btw so when Bleedblue brought up Tkachuk in reference to this debate I did a spit-take.

Anyway, predictably, upon my response I was met with insidious accusations of bad faith, hilariously awful math, and there was a homophobic slur in there (not to me but to the people who would have an opinion on this ... anyone who disagreed with this person was a nonobjective "fanboy" who was "(slur)." We just aren't going to be doing this same thing for Thomas as we did once for Tkachuk, some of the same slurs won't be used this time.

It actually reminded me of when I came back here a year and a half ago and said Krug was at best a 4-5 defenseman on a contender. I got the full Brian ridicule on that, and we went at it hammer and tongs, and look where we are today. One of the people who went at me as personally as possible is now one of the strongest voices for my position; I congratulate him. So I do not operate in bad faith. If I say something about the team you don't like, what I say might be totally wrong, but it is not in bad faith, a truly poison accusation. I believe that you cannot become great unless you are honest with yourself. It's the same principle in poker, the best players are the ones who are truly honest with themselves about their own play. It's so pitiful to be so bad at argument that all you can do is attack the person. That is so incompetent.

Anyway here's a rude wake up call for the people here who huff hopium on the Thomas-Point comparison. Wake up.



*Some people might only aspire to compete for the President's Trophy, but I want the Blues to compete for the Stanley Cup, The team has won one of each and I know which one was better. The Stanley Cup competition occurs in the playoffs. It's true, you can look this up.