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2022-2023 Around The League

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AegonLeConqueror said:
Was Marino always, at best, a 2nd pairing defenseman? If I recall, he played first pairing minutes in Pittsburgh and did pretty well, no?
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He struggled when he was up the lineup, but thrived when he was in the middle pairing. Pittsburgh got rid of him because they got frustrated with him not being able to take the next step to being a top pairing guy and they didn't want to lock themselves into him long-term if he wasn't going to. IMO one of their larger mistakes recently... especially since it was for Ty Smith who is just not a good NHL defensmen.

LOFIN said:
The problem with Graves here was that he simply didn't understand what he's capable of and what role he needed to play. All he had to do was be a safety net for the pair when Makar/Girard goes on offence. Instead, he tried to pull off some of the same stuff Cale routinely did, and usually it didn't work. And it was infuriating to watch. No Ryan, you are NOT taking a shot from the point (and hitting the first opponent) when you can pass it to Cale, Mikko, Nate or Gabe.
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That's coaching... Avs preach attack, attack, attack. He was doing what they wanted from him. He could have picked better spots, but he was playing the way the Avs wanted him to (we even see Manson do some of the same stupid shit and he's far less talented offensively). In New Jersey, he's playing within himself and looking quite good.
 
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dahrougem2 said:
IIRC Siegenthaler was pissed at a lack of playing time/healthy scratches too, no?

Seems like a mess of a situation all around.
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Yeah, he asked for a trade. It stemmed from Washington replacing him with Dillion and then re-signing him. His role was transferred to Dillion and he simply wanted out after that. Washington really screwed up though.
 
LOFIN said:
The problem with Graves here was that he simply didn't understand what he's capable of and what role he needed to play. All he had to do was be a safety net for the pair when Makar/Girard goes on offence. Instead, he tried to pull off some of the same stuff Cale routinely did, and usually it didn't work. And it was infuriating to watch. No Ryan, you are NOT taking a shot from the point (and hitting the first opponent) when you can pass it to Cale, Mikko, Nate or Gabe.
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In Gravy's defense, any time they tried to turn him into a less eventful player, it utterly ruined him. For a guy labeled as a stay-at-home type he's best served jumping into the play and being as aggressive as he can. I've said before and I'll maintain he has to be YOLO or just don't bother playing him. I was convinced before he was a third pairing guy but he absolutely isn't. He has to be top four.

That said, why he got it in his head to just wing shots from the same spot on the point all the goddamned time, I'll never know. Prior to his final year in Colorado he was more patient with the puck. That REALLY hurt his game and literally cost them a win in the postseason.

I'll also add that, while I'm a fan of Graves, he's gotten exposed badly in the playoffs the last two postseasons, and I think he will be in NJ as well. For a big guy who can throw down he actually wilts a bit when the refs pocket the whistles and forecheckers start coming in droves.
 
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henchman24 said:
Yeah, he asked for a trade. It stemmed from Washington replacing him with Dillion and then re-signing him. His role was transferred to Dillion and he simply wanted out after that. Washington really screwed up though.
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I believe the trade request came not long after Laviolette went with a 7D lineup in Washington, and then just...didn't play him, because he liked having three even pairs. And Lavi's done that at least one more time since then I believe. Dude's an awful coach. Maybe he was good at one point but he's reached the Vigneault Stage of coaching metamorphosis where he's just been recycled one too many times.

Bigger picture--Washington is one of the most knee-jerk organizations in the league. They should have won multiple Cups at this point, but have ruined their own chances at that because they seemingly panic and retool anytime they run into adversity. They had an insanely stacked team and tore it to shreds because they got Halak'd in the first round.
 
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LOFIN said:
The problem with Graves here was that he simply didn't understand what he's capable of and what role he needed to play.
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He's not like that in NJ.

Anyway Josh Manson is a living proof that it's the coaching staff that want them to play like this. Graves was doing it, Manson is doing it, EJ is doing it...that's the game plan. Defense must support attack and skate with the puck.
 
Some people criticized Boston for signing him to that contract...looks like he wasn't a mistake.

Buffalo sure could use a goalie like that.

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henchman24 said:
They got obsessed with Dillion... which for some reason teams just keep doing. The guy sucks.
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Show me (or Hasbro) a defenseman over 6'1" and 200 lbs. and I will show you at least a dozen NHL teams willing to pay through the nose for him.

That's why when I read about a potential trade market for Tyler Myers, despite the fact that he's one of the most ineffective defensemen in the league signed to a horrible contract, I firmly believe it.
 
Pokecheque said:
Show me (or Hasbro) a defenseman over 6'1" and 200 lbs. and I will show you at least a dozen NHL teams willing to pay through the nose for him.

That's why when I read about a potential trade market for Tyler Myers, despite the fact that he's one of the most ineffective defensemen in the league signed to a horrible contract, I firmly believe it.
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So many people loved that deal when it came out... and I just never saw the fascination. Dude was a low end 4 at the time and regressed pretty quickly. Hindsight is 20/20, but we see the differences in trajectories.

Myers... at 50% retained (or 75%), I can see him as useful in some specific areas. In different ways, but similar in theory to JMFJ. Very limited players that if you have the right needs, can patch some holes. Myers at his full $6m likely zero teams take that without a significant sweetener. You can always move players, it is just about motivation.
 
Colorado Avalanche said:
Graves their top defenseman? Tough to believe this streak would continue more than regular season.. sounds like Roy Avalanche. Imo. Playoffs their defense will be exposed.
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The thing is they have a couple of good ones in the pipeline. Hughes and Nemec. As a franchise they are looking good long term. Like the Avs 3-4 years ago?
 
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Colorado Avalanche said:
Graves their top defenseman? Tough to believe this streak would continue more than regular season.. sounds like Roy Avalanche. Imo. Playoffs their defense will be exposed.
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Quite literally could not be anymore different quite frankly.


The Roy Avalanche got dominated every night and won almost solely off the miracle efforts from Semyon Varlamov on a near nightly basis. It was truly criminal he didn't win the Vezina that year, one of the most absurd voting results of all time IMO.

The Devils flat out dominate opponents on a nightly basis. They are like us from the last 2-3 years before this year where we would dominate teams in offensively and wear them out from playing Defense all the game to the point they would break down.


It does remain to be seen how the defense will hold up once they play a team that can match that puck possession game and push back on them, especially in a playoff scenario where they go head to head for 7 games. But we wont know that until the playoffs pretty much. They could easily continue to dominate honestly.


But they are nothing like the 2014 Avalanche. Nothing at all. Also Graves is certainly not their top Dman, really he's #5 on that team but being used as a #4.
 
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