Prospect Info: 2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 4

[Kennerback]

Not a good place currently to help develop young players.

I think they’re prog….

RHP 0.81 down to 0.37 PPG
Ylonen 0.61 down to 0.50 PPG

 

[Retired]

I think the AHL is getting to be a bad development league for young skilled players. Refs let way too much go, which favors older, lesser skilled players. Main thing for Slaf is to let his body develop naturally, while allowing him to work on his puck skills as much as possible. You wan this guy to be a top 6, if not top line guy as much as possible, and not fart around being targeted by grinders in the AHL. Ironically, that was what Rossi was faced with last year in the AHL... he did ok, but only after getting his face rubbed about 27 times, and missing a couple of games due to a high (head) hit after a whistle.

An 18 yo doesn't need to deal with that crap from a bitter 27 yo minor league lifer. Slaf will be a completely different person physically when he is 20 or 21 yo. The difference between Boldy at 19yo(giraffe on skates getting knocked over regularly in the AHL) and Boldy now at 21(winning board battles in the NHL, and laying heavy hits) is mind blowing. Boldy had the advantage of being able to play two years in college and some AHL before being in the NHL. You would hope that Slaf is a bit more advanced as a player, but MTL should be taking similar care not to rush him... he's still a kid, relatively speaking. Very, very few players are ready for the NHL right away. You just have to take a look at Lafreniere to see how not to develop a 1 oa player. Slaf has to deal not only with physical and mental immaturity, but also a new culture and language... that's a load.

Sorry for the rant...i know I've invaded your forum as an outsider, but I grew up in Montreal years ago during the glory years, and have a special interest in the team.

Well said. I also feel he should be surrounded on the ice by guys like Xjekaj, Anderson and anyone can deter from the target on his back. Everyone always goes after the big guys, whether it’s to prove themselves or to stick up for their own players. He will become more aware and stronger himself, but I feel it’s an org responsibility too. -Evans, for example is one of the least self-preserving players out there.

 

[Kennerback]

When your farm teams‘ top offensive prospect is 5th in scoring behind veteran minor pros….. yeah, no…

 

[admiralcadillac]

In the end, it does not matter at all whether he was exhausted, off balance, etc.
He get knocked too easily and he can get hurt (potentially a very bad injury). This is obviously his main struggle with transition from Europe to NA. In Europe, we have bigger ice, so it is harder for opponents to finish their checks.
I am afraid that move to AHL would be even more dangerous as he would become a target no. 1 for opponents.

I mean yeah obviously that matters a ton. If you’re off balnce anyone gets knocked over. I don’t understand how you can dismiss that.

 

[Runner77]

Did you see 5’9 Gallagher demolish 6’5” Darnell Nurse? Maybe someone could make a compilation of the best non suspended blind side hits by small players on players 6’2 and more.

Shill Minnesota Wild Twitter accounts: “hit is legal due to size difference”.

 

[nhlfan9191]

When your farm teams‘ top offensive prospect is 5th in scoring behind veteran minor pros….. yeah, no…

You seem hell bent on Slafkovsky being above being anywhere but the NHL. Just judging from your posts, I’m assuming it’s because you were a big fan before he was drafted and just want to be able to watch him. This kids a project. Playing 10-12 minutes a night isn’t necessarily the best game plan. And I’ve read you think he’s a physical specimen. Last nights hit wasn’t a blindside hit. It was a hit where a player was vulnerable because he wasn’t aware when he should’ve been and also didn’t make a decision at a NHL pace.

 

[Canadienna]

I've just got this feeling that if he never got knocked over at the end of the game this thread wouldn't be as critical.

I thought other than that one play he had a pretty good game.

 

[Mrb1p]

I've just got this feeling that if he never got knocked over at the end of the game this thread wouldn't be as critical.

I thought other than that one play he had a pretty good game.

He did, and yet he got the least ice time out of all skaters. Kinda lame.

He was awesome on the 2nd PP and somehow didnt see ice on the next PP.

 

[ReHabs]

Well, its mostly as something I will look at throughout the year.

If we end the season with the same roster and vets not moved out, still being used on the PP to calm their little ego and still trying to squeeze wins. As of now its too early to say anything for sure.

It’s too early in the season to cut the vets out. They have to play their way down the roster and the kids have to fight to displace them. That’s the way it is and for good reason.

The problem we have is Gallagher, Dadonov, Byron, Drouin, and Hoffman are not just worthless in terms of trade value but worthless or just about worthless on the ice. They can help here and there, on the PK or whatever, but a hungry young tweener like last year’s Rem Pitlick could make the same or better impact for league minimum… but we don’t have these ready made alternates handy. So the crappy vets play…

I won’t hold it against HuGo if they want to try to get these guys going

 

[Kennerback]

You seem hell bent on Slafkovsky being above being anywhere but the NHL. Just judging from your posts, I’m assuming it’s because you were a big fan before he was drafted and just want to be able to watch him. This kids a project. Playing 10-12 minutes a night isn’t necessarily the best game plan. And I’ve read you think he’s a physical specimen. Last nights hit wasn’t a blindside hit. It was a hit where a player was vulnerable because he wasn’t aware when he should’ve been and also didn’t make a decision at a NHL pace.

You can call it what you want, it’s a blindside hit according to the NHL rulebook. “check delivered on a player who is not aware of the impending hit”. Now you can say Slaf should have been aware, but that’s not the definition... It’s not a suspendable hit but you write down the number for the next time you play that team, you return the favour.

 

[JoelWarlord]

It is the same line of thought that brought us to screw up Kotkaniemi. If he is the 6th best winger, (he is, I think, more or less.) Why is he playing the least?

Eh. I really don't think the situations are comparable. They're bringing him along slowly and scratching veterans on 4.5-5.5M contracts to keep him in the lineup vs. Julien screaming about defensive responsibility to a Kotkaniemi who was already defensively responsible, and benching him for Nate Thompson during a season where they were trying to win.

I would like to see him start playing more over the next few games (I would like to see him playing with Monahan and Armia), but we're still only talking about 7 games where the uptick happened around game 3 or 4. It's a long season, and there's a natural break + reset point at the world juniors if things go off the rails for him in the 1st half.

JFH and the make-up of the Rockets is my first red flag towards HuGo.

Not a big fan of him either, and definitely not thrilled with Laval at the moment. I hope they fix it over this season and next offseason as they get the luxury of a bit of a mulligan with most of our important young players other than Ylonen and Barron either in the NHL or junior/NCAA this year.

The handling of Juraj.
The handling of the vets this year (Money, Dvo, Gally, Hoff, Dads, Drouin, Matheson, Edmundson, Savard, Armia) is also scaring me and will be a make or break for me.

If we end the season with the same roster and vets not moved out, still being used on the PP to calm their little ego and still trying to squeeze wins. As of now its too early to say anything for sure.

I'm not really concerned with how they're handling Slafkovsky so far, but I recognize that's a difference of opinion.

As for the vets I'm not really sure what the issue is. I don't like Hoffman/Drouin/Dadonov on the PP much either but it's only been 10 games and they're players the team wants to try and flip, you have to give those guys a chance if you want to flip them. Monahan has our 3rd best forward - they're trying to flip him too, and they just put Dach on the top line. Slafkovsky is on the PP now, and we don't really have any other young forwards. We just have dead weight at F and have to wait it out, it is what it is. Same thing with the veteran defencemen, Savard is unmoveable and they just have him eating grunt minutes to shelter other guys. They're giving Kovacevic a meaningful role at RHD, and have given Guhle, Harris, and Xhekaj a long leash and let them basically run the defence. Edmundson they kept because they correctly didn't want to count on 4 rookies, he'll go in the offseason or next year's deadline as that kind of player is always more valuable in trade as a pending UFA. Matheson I'm happy to keep, he's a good puck mover today and has a long-term future for us as a 2nd pair D.

I don't really see why we should be afraid they're going to keep the same roster around. They've moved Toffoli, Kulak, Chiarot, Lehkonen, and Petry already. Monahan and Dadonov were only brought in as pending UFAs for future cap value or because we were paid to take them. They'll trade Monahan, we won't get anything for Drouin and Dadonov but they're gone in the summer. Hoffman probably is unmoveable too. Armia I think is salvageable for an offseason or next year deadline trade, but he likely can't be moved this year. Gallagher we just have to accept is going to be here, he's going to be overpaid by approx ~2.5M to be our 2-3RW and play matchup minutes, it is what it is. Dvorak they're not attached to, but they're going to just wait until a team offers the market rate for a two-way fringey 2-3C of a playoff team's 1st and a throw-in asset. In the meantime he'll just play some defensive minutes and insulate younger forwards until someone offers fair value for him, that's fine.

The thing you need to ask is if it is in Slaf or the Habs’ best interests to keep him in the NHL despite the fact he’s one of our 12 best forwards? On one hand it is a lost year with a bad roster so the NHL quality of this roster is irrelevant

I think right now it is still the best thing, but I'm open to amending as things progress. For as long as we see encouraging signs each game and he continues improving and earning a longer leash I'm fine with the status quo, and there's always an obvious pressure release valve of sending him to the World Juniors and having him go to Laval after that if things are stagnating at the NHL level. Ideally they treat the next couple weeks as an inflection point where they decide to either commit to a consistent middle six role (I'd like to see him with Monahan and Armia) or start going the AHL route, but we'll see what happens.

On the other hand the single biggest knock on Slaf is his hockey IQ. Will he develop his playmaking ability in the NHL playing bottom6 minutes? The game is too fast and fierce in the NHL in any case. Many young players get stuck in one way of doing things because it’s the only way they feel they can survive.

This is true for many players but I don't think it's been the case for him. I would like to see him with better linemates to keep developing as a playmaker as he made a lot of nice plays that died on his linemates' sticks last night, but I don't get the impression he's oversimplifying his game to survive in the NHL.

But if we’re at the 25 game mark and he’s still looking like a bit of a headless chicken then this has been a lost opportunity to get him serious minutes in Jrs or Minors.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I am. In the preseason I was thinking AHL for sure, but he's adjusted quicker than I expected, and I'm fine with what they're doing so far. So far they've been good with positive reinforcement for good play and he's earning more ice (and I suspect they're managing some conditioning stuff too), and I'm OK if they give him the runway to either earn a legitimate roster spot or send him to the AHL at that point.

 

[Egresch]

Training is a non-factor because it happens at similar frequency anywhere he would be. The facilities in Laval and Brossard are very similar and its a 15 minutes ride from the bell center, pretty sure Nicholas would stick around there.

I am not talking about frequency, I am talking about quality of training process. It is not only Nicholas, it is also MSL, Poulin and others. Do you remember how many coaches were on ice during development camp?
Plus, do not forget that this kid already has little ego. He is Olympics MVP, draft 1OA, lived on his own since 15 and he said he definitely wants to stay in NHL. He is better than most wingers in the team, so how would he see benefit of AHL.

 

[Jaaanosik]

And some people can't accept other people's opinions, I still don't think he's fully ready and 4th line isn't helping. What are you going to do about it...

We accept your opinion even if it is false.
Slaf is improving/developing shift by shift, game by game.
He is not lost in the NHL and therefore playing in the NHL is better than any other league.

 

[Mrb1p]

I am not talking about frequency, I am talking about quality of training process. It is not only Nicholas, it is also MSL, Poulin and others. Do you remember how many coaches were on ice during development camp?
Plus, do not forget that this kid already has little ego. He is Olympics MVP, draft 1OA, lived on his own since 15 and he said he definitely wants to stay in NHL. He is better than most wingers in the team, so how would he see benefit of AHL.

Hes better than AHL players on this team? Wow, Im surprised. Thats such a weak argument. Beck and Mesar were also probably better.

We have to be patient, we have to keep our eyes on the prize. The prize is a cup contending team, and right now, Slaf is the 2nd or 3rd biggest part of that goal. He needs to hit and he needs to hit big.

I dont understand, everyones preaching patience but no one wants to actually be patient. Everyone wants him here for reasons that have not been proven to actually matter in a players development.

Anyway, I really dont want to get sucked in this again, every thing has been said and Ive been saying the same thing for ten years. Hopefully Slaf is the kind of player that shines through no matter what.

 

[417]

This isnt development. Hes barely playing. He needs puck touches, he needs situations in which he can learn. You don't learn physics by watching the world around you, you do hands-on maths. Its the same with anything.

I think he’s improved quite noticeably since training camp in September.

But that’s just me.

Most important time of his career is right now, his brain is still in full development, the gains he could make are insane. Instead hes glued to the bench.

Again, I’d say he’s made large gains but I don’t disagree that it would be time to either increase the usage or perhaps send him to Laval where you can pretty much guarantee 16-18mins + a game.

I’m not quite there though…I’m trying not to focus on evaluating every single shift (like last night, I.e.ignoring the rest of his game because of a split second moment) and look at the performance over 10ish game samples.

.


Thats just a lame come back, sophism 101.

Just facts.

 

[417]

This is where I am too. I think the AHL vs NHL argument is still an open question in a vacuum and I wouldn't begrudge someone for thinking he'd be better off with 18-20 minutes a night as a first liner and PP1 mainstay in the AHL. The thing is though, he's in actuality playing for the 22-23 Canadiens and not a median NHL team in a vacuum. And for the 22-23 Canadiens it's a lot murkier as he doesn't stand out as "less NHL-ready" than about half of our forward group on any given night.

There's a practical reality that these are real people and real careers at stake at the top of the highly competitive field of pro sports, and even the most negative appraisal of his play puts him as the 6th best winger on the team right now. Everyone can see that he's raw and making mistakes, but there is no convincing argument that he has been less effective as an NHLer so far than Drouin, Pitlick, Hoffman, or Dadonov.

I just don't really know how you send him down right now when he's legitimately outplaying a third to half of the forward lineup every night. That isn't some huge accomplishment or anything, but he's legitimately earning a spot in the NHL based on his play and is improving and earning a bit more leash every single night. To me, that's development and I think it's fine to carry on a while longer and adjust plans according to his play.

Agreed…like you said, it’s not a huge accomplishment but it’s worth more, imo, than spamming him minutes in the AHL.

For now….

 

[Schooner Guy]

This thread is hilarious. We all know we have a raw 18-year old prospect with high upside who will have ups and downs throughout the season and the sky is falling because he got levelled late in last night's game.

It's clear that his game is showing overall progress. There will be some nights that he looks like an 18-year old.

I hope HuGo put him in the WJC given that this Habs season means nothing. I never understood why the Bergie regime wouldn't let KK play in the WJC during his 18-year old season.

 

[Redux91]

Just bugs me he was described as some genetic freak who was going to be mini Jagr and dominate physically.

Seems it’s not in his blood. Look at the Tkachuks or Lucic or even Jackeye. They’re young and all play solid the moment they got to the league.

Slaf looks like he doesn’t want to play a physical game at all.

Yeah I guess we're just stuck with those useless good for nothing Goals lol

Les nerfs with the no hitting, I've seen him throw plenty of hits dude
You're just a little rattled by what you saw and it's ok, itll BE okay

 

[Egresch]

Hes better than AHL players on this team? Wow, Im surprised. Thats such a weak argument. Beck and Mesar were also probably better.

We have to be patient, we have to keep our eyes on the prize. The prize is a cup contending team, and right now, Slaf is the 2nd or 3rd biggest part of that goal. He needs to hit and he needs to hit big.

I dont understand, everyones preaching patience but no one wants to actually be patient. Everyone wants him here for reasons that have not been proven to actually matter in a players development.

Anyway, I really dont want to get sucked in this again, every thing has been said and Ive been saying the same thing for ten years. Hopefully Slaf is the kind of player that shines through no matter what.

It's not about being impatient. I just have a different opinion about the path. I believe that limited icetime in NHL will not hurt his development as he gets a lot of top-level practising with best teammates and great advices from coaching staff.
Over two years of watching his progress I realized that he is one of those people who keep going forward and constantly improve. What I am saying is, he would take AHL as step back and might lose little bit of motivation.
This is just my opinion, I am not saying yours is wrong. It is just different. We are discussing, not arguing

 

[Mrb1p]

I think he’s improved quite noticeably since training camp in September.

But that’s just me.

Again, I’d say he’s made large gains but I don’t disagree that it would be time to either increase the usage or perhaps send him to Laval where you can pretty much guarantee 16-18mins + a game.

I’m not quite there though…I’m trying not to focus on evaluating every single shift (like last night, I.e.ignoring the rest of his game because of a split second moment) and look at the performance over 10ish game samples.

Just facts.

Its not about him improving or not, its about how hes deployed.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Hes better than AHL players on this team? Wow, Im surprised. Thats such a weak argument. Beck and Mesar were also probably better.

Beck would definitely be inside our top 12 forwards right now but has a limited roster progression path this year as we have Dach/Monahan/Dvorak/Evans all at C behind Suzuki who need minutes either for their own development or to build trade value in Monahan/Dvorak's case. It would have been difficult for Beck to plausibly work his way above the 4C slot whereas with Slafkovsky there's a much easier pathway to working his way up the lineup. He has a better AHL fallback option than Beck who can't go there or Mesar who might be physically overmatched/headhunted there as well, I think there's just an easier path where he earns a bigger role in the NHL than with the other two which made it obvious to send them to the CHL.

I dont understand, everyones preaching patience but no one wants to actually be patient. Everyone wants him here for reasons that have not been proven to actually matter in a players development.

Having a player start their D+1 in the NHL is not necessarily impatient. This is how a lot of KHL/Liiga/SHL clubs develop young players in their top leagues as well, in smaller roles with progressive increases in TOI and a bit of insulation from the grind. If we were trying to win and they were screaming about defensive miscues I'd be against it, but they aren't so I'm fine to see what happens. I don't want him playing 10-12 minutes all year, but it's been 7 games and he's been developing and growing rapidly before our eyes while playing in the NHL. I'm fine to let that process play out and see if he can earn a bigger role in the NHL this year, and if not he'll go to Laval and the World Juniors with a clear idea of what to work on and what he needs to do to pop as an NHLer.

I would push back on the 2nd bit as well. In general I think the conventional path like they're doing with Beck and Mesar is best, but it's not the only way, and it's also not necessarily true that the best thing for every player is to dunk on the highest non-NHL oppo they can handle from the beginning of their D+1 season. There are all kinds of sports and other human skill development contexts where the conventional strategy is a lot closer to what the Habs are doing with Slafkovsky than the "send your prospects to demolish the CHL for D+1 and D+2" hockey approach.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

There’s some people that just can’t accept he’s ready for the NHL already. Take a look at the posters history and it almost corresponds perfectly with those that were vociferously denouncing the Slaf pick.

Now other than what your eyes should be telling you about his on-ice play, just ask yourself if those are the posters who really have Slafkovsky’s best interest at heart.

Lol Slaf is not ready the NHL at all. People who thinks he shines at this moment are clueless. The only reason why we talk positive compared to the others wingers is because he's the 1st overall of the montreal canadien and the new toy.

He has 0 elite assets , He gets bumped like Jake Evans does and Jake Evans sadly learned the hard way.

He's not NHL ready , perhaps the AHL is no better , But atleast in the AHL he won't get outplayed and have 17-18min of icetime.

Like I said if this thread was about Anderson , everyone would be shatting on him instead.

He's not miracle and he's not the winger than Suzuki and Caufield needs and that's a guarantee.

 

[Gillings]

Lol Slaf is not ready the NHL at all. People who thinks he shines at this moment are clueless. The only reason why we talk positive compared to the others wingers is because he's the 1st overall of the montreal canadien and the new toy.

He has 0 elite assets , He gets bumped like Jake Evans does and Jake Evans sadly learned the hard way.

He's not NHL ready , perhaps the AHL is no better , But atleast in the AHL he won't get outplayed and have 17-18min of icetime.

Like I said if this thread was about Anderson , everyone would be shatting on him instead.

He's not miracle and he's not the winger than Suzuki and Caufield needs and that's a guarantee.

Disagree with he isn’t elite. He will be you watch. He’s got great vision, great offensive instincts and an amazing shot. He also has the skating attitude of mackinnion ( even though it’s VERY RAW )

 

[Retired]

Just bugs me he was described as some genetic freak who was going to be mini Jagr and dominate physically.

Seems it’s not in his blood. Look at the Tkachuks or Lucic or even Jackeye. They’re young and all play solid the moment they got to the league.

Slaf looks like he doesn’t want to play a physical game at all.

It seems more appropriate we compare his physical domination in 3 years with Xhekaj’s 21 year old season (this one)?

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Gotta keep ur head up babyboy