Prospect Info: 2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 4

[RationalExpectations]

Slaf is a Mario Lemieux in progress. He's going to be a superstar

Troll ? Is Andeson also a Lemieux in progress ? Lemieux is a franchise player, no one sees Slaf as one.

 

[cphabs]

The difference for me is that Slaf clearly has exceptional raw tools and genetics in his favour, but he struggles with the game processing, mental aspects of the game, positioning, anticipation, reaction time.

I believe he’s going to be a very good player or at least should be, but I argue what we are doing for his development this year is actually hindering his ability to adapt. We’re asking him to learn these finer aspects in the toughest league in the world when there is a league a tier below the toughest where he would still learn, but have slightly more time and space to do it. We’ve already seen him get rocked countless times for not being aware or skating with his head down etc. Not to mention he’s barely getting any ice time to improve.

I can see gradually increasing his 5vs5 time, but the kid should be stapled to the first PP unit all year long etc. if Slaf succeeds it will be because he was just too damn good to be held back and nothing to do with this 10-11 min per night shit they’ve been feeding him. It’s been reminiscent of Michel Therrien and Claude Julien’s developmental plan, a hot mess.

Sound advice. Hope the kid makes it!

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Isn't Jared Spurgeon 5'9 and the Captain of the Minnesota Wild?

Yep there are a handful in the league. I’m not sure this is a strong argument in Hutson’s favour. Even most of those are forwards. You can count the impactful 5’9 dmen on one hand. There’s a reason for that.

 

[KevSkillz4]

Sloviakia team show they are really bad without Juraj Slafkovsky. Habs drafted a very good one. Sloviakia miss a player like Slafkovsky.

 

[Habnot]

The difference for me is that Slaf clearly has exceptional raw tools and genetics in his favour, but he struggles with the game processing, mental aspects of the game, positioning, anticipation, reaction time.

I believe he’s going to be a very good player or at least should be, but I argue what we are doing for his development this year is actually hindering his ability to adapt. We’re asking him to learn these finer aspects in the toughest league in the world when there is a league a tier below the toughest where he would still learn, but have slightly more time and space to do it. We’ve already seen him get rocked countless times for not being aware or skating with his head down etc. Not to mention he’s barely getting any ice time to improve.

I can see gradually increasing his 5vs5 time, but the kid should be stapled to the first PP unit all year long etc. if Slaf succeeds it will be because he was just too damn good to be held back and nothing to do with this 10-11 min per night shit they’ve been feeding him. It’s been reminiscent of Michel Therrien and Claude Julien’s developmental plan, a hot mess.

The issue is not the physical play per say, he has proven that he can play against men. It's the speed mixed with the physicality. That you only get in the NHL. I would be more concerned with him playing in the AHL. There are a lot more jabronis in the AHL that are just looking to light up youngsters.

I also like the way MSL and the Habs are handling his development in the NHL. Good mix of spoon feeding and merit. Giving him 1st PP time without merit is just not realistic in pro sports.

One thing that is often cited but quickly forgotten is patience. This year is a development year for our core young group. Trust the process - we finally have good people at the controls. Fans bases (not only Habs) are a bit bi-polar. They want development but then expect instant results. That's just not the way it works.

 

[ReHabs]

There are a lot more jabronis in the AHL that are just looking to light up youngsters.

Is this really true? I've never heard of this until this year.

One thing that is often cited but quickly forgotten is patience. This year is a development year for our core young group. Trust the process - we finally have good people at the controls. Fans bases (not only Habs) are a bit bi-polar. They want development but then expect instant results. That's just not the way it works.

Patience like... rushing a player to the NHL instead of letting him develop at his own pace after he proves he isn't fit to play in the NHL as an 18 year old (as Slafkovsky had a mediocre Rookie and Training camp, he did not prove he was fit to play in the NHL as an 18 year old).

Did you also say "trust the process, we finally have good people" in 2012? What makes you so sure they know how to develop prospects? Is there any evidence in Bobrov, Gorton, Hughes, or MSL's previous NHL experience?

Instant results like... rushing player to the NHL and hoping it works out well for him? That sorta "instant results"? Please tell me how it's meant to work.

 

[WinterLion]

Is this really true? I've never heard of this until this year.

Yes, pretty much every AHL team carries at least one tough guy... ironically it seems to be a bit tamer down there this year... but traditionally you have a lot of veteran tough guy/ energy guy types partially because those players are not as sought after in Europe and the Europeans who can't make the NHL would prefer to play at home. Hopefully this will change so that the AHL is more like the NHL... it just might take a few more years.

 

[Monsieur Miz]

Alexei Ponikarovsky 2.0, book it.

 

[Fatbiggie]

Alexei Ponikarovsky 2.0, book it.

That’s a throwback name…not exactly a good one

 

[Jaaanosik]

Is this really true? I've never heard of this until this year.


Patience like... rushing a player to the NHL instead of letting him develop at his own pace after he proves he isn't fit to play in the NHL as an 18 year old (as Slafkovsky had a mediocre Rookie and Training camp, he did not prove he was fit to play in the NHL as an 18 year old).

Did you also say "trust the process, we finally have good people" in 2012? What makes you so sure they know how to develop prospects? Is there any evidence in Bobrov, Gorton, Hughes, or MSL's previous NHL experience?

Instant results like... rushing player to the NHL and hoping it works out well for him? That sorta "instant results"? Please tell me how it's meant to work.

That's your own personal opinion not aligned with the club's view, they kept him in the NHL.
Slaf belongs to NHL, he is better than some 'veteran' players on the Habs team.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

The issue is not the physical play per say, he has proven that he can play against men. It's the speed mixed with the physicality. That you only get in the NHL. I would be more concerned with him playing in the AHL. There are a lot more jabronis in the AHL that are just looking to light up youngsters.

I also like the way MSL and the Habs are handling his development in the NHL. Good mix of spoon feeding and merit. Giving him 1st PP time without merit is just not realistic in pro sports.

One thing that is often cited but quickly forgotten is patience. This year is a development year for our core young group. Trust the process - we finally have good people at the controls. Fans bases (not only Habs) are a bit bi-polar. They want development but then expect instant results. That's just not the way it works.

Yes its a development year but we’re deploying him like we’re in a heated playoff race. We’re not. Ten minutes a night is stupid for this kid.

Is this really true? I've never heard of this until this year.


Patience like... rushing a player to the NHL instead of letting him develop at his own pace after he proves he isn't fit to play in the NHL as an 18 year old (as Slafkovsky had a mediocre Rookie and Training camp, he did not prove he was fit to play in the NHL as an 18 year old).

Did you also say "trust the process, we finally have good people" in 2012? What makes you so sure they know how to develop prospects? Is there any evidence in Bobrov, Gorton, Hughes, or MSL's previous NHL experience?

Instant results like... rushing player to the NHL and hoping it works out well for him? That sorta "instant results"? Please tell me how it's meant to work.

No, it’s not true. Hasn’t been true for years.

 

[ReHabs]

That's your own personal opinion not aligned with the club's view, they kept him in the NHL.
Slaf belongs to NHL, he is better than some 'veteran' players on the Habs team.

The veteran players on the Habs are rubbish and their quality has nothing to do with Slaf’s development or optimal career trajectory.

Slaf is not capable of wresting quality minutes away from these rubbish players — so either MSL knows something and is making the right decision (ie MSL knows Slaf is not NHL material right now) or MSL is wrong and incapable of seeing Slaf’s NHL worthiness (ie MSL is not a good coach for Slaf right now) — irrespective of your view of Slafkovsky, both scenarios show that he is not in the right place right this moment.

Maybe it’ll change, maybe from next game on Slaf will show more and cement a place in the NHL. But so far he has not and has been put in a position with an elevated risk of catastrophic injury.

Yes, pretty much every AHL team carries at least one tough guy... ironically it seems to be a bit tamer down there this year... but traditionally you have a lot of veteran tough guy/ energy guy types partially because those players are not as sought after in Europe and the Europeans who can't make the NHL would prefer to play at home. Hopefully this will change so that the AHL is more like the NHL... it just might take a few more years.

Tough guy enforcers don’t typically play against much less get allowed to target finesse players. Even if they do, they’re usually slower and more undisciplined than the player they’re trying to hit. If Slaf cannot hold his own against borderline AHLers then he surely can’t be expected to play against NHLers.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The veteran players on the Habs are rubbish and their quality has nothing to do with Slaf’s development or optimal career trajectory.

Slaf is not capable of wresting quality minutes away from these rubbish players — so either MSL knows something and is making the right decision (ie MSL knows Slaf is not NHL material right now) or MSL is wrong and incapable of seeing Slaf’s NHL worthiness (ie MSL is not a good coach for Slaf right now) — irrespective of your view of Slafkovsky, both scenarios show that he is not in the right place right this moment.

Maybe it’ll change, maybe from next game on Slaf will show more and cement a place in the NHL. But so far he has not and has been put in a position with an elevated risk of catastrophic injury.


Tough guy enforcers don’t typically play against much less get allowed to target finesse players. Even if they do, they’re usually slower and more undisciplined than the player they’re trying to hit. If Slaf cannot hold his own against borderline AHLers then he surely can’t be expected to play against NHLers.

Disagree that he hasn’t been good enough to take those minutes. He has. And that’s why his usage is so puzzling.

Again, I’d have started him in the minors and I’d put him there now… but regardless, I don’t like how he’s been used.

And what’s really weird is that MSL has done a great job with the kids overall. So why the difference with Slaf? I don’t know.

 

[Bombshell11]

That's your own personal opinion not aligned with the club's view, they kept him in the NHL.
Slaf belongs to NHL, he is better than some 'veteran' players on the Habs team.

Its the opinion of the vast majority.

Slaf does not belong here. Even if physically he can hold his ground in some areas his mental game needs a whole re-write. At the end of the day are you trying to develop a legit 1st liner or a plumber? Because at this point a plug would be more useful to MSL.

 

[Kojo]

Its the opinion of the vast majority.

No it's not. Just because the haters post more often doesn't mean you're the majority. Quit your bullshit.

 

[ReHabs]

Disagree that he hasn’t been good enough to take those minutes. He has. And that’s why his usage is so puzzling.

Again, I’d have started him in the minors and I’d put him there now… but regardless, I don’t like how he’s been used.

And what’s really weird is that MSL has done a great job with the kids overall. So why the difference with Slaf? I don’t know.

It's only puzzling if you can't see the big picture: Slaf is too raw and not NHL-ready. He was too raw and not NHL-ready in Rookie Camp, he was too raw and not NHL-ready in Training Camp, he was too raw and not NHL-ready by game 9 when he should've been sent down, he was too raw and not NHL-ready the c. four times he got blown up and caught with big hits, and he continues to be too raw and not NHL-ready to date.

For purposes of clarity: I define 'too raw' as "too often behind the run of play" and not NHL-ready as "not capable of contributing in a steady top6 role".

I've speculated that it's either his stamina holding him back or he makes too many mistakes reading the game and MSL has to pull the leash. I'm not sure what it is but the outcome is all the same: Slaf has not played enough minutes.

As the commentator above says, do we want a 1st liner or a plumber? I'm sure he can hang on and keep up in a Joel Armia-like role, but that's not what we want, now is it? I'm not sure why other commentators have to be so hostile to the notion of sending him down -- who does it benefit to keep him up right now?

 

[alko]

Is he ready? Should he be in AHL?...

Are you still talking about this?

 

[Bombshell11]

No it's not. Just because the haters post more often doesn't mean you're the majority. Quit your bullshit.

Yo why do you take critical and rational thinking as being a hater?

We're not in elementary school, you gotta take constructive criticism and stop hiding behind your labels.

One thing the french of france do correctly is they're open to argue and have debates on anything.

Cut the beer and alchool and allow your selfs to grow intellectually.

And im not attacking you personally, im targeting any one who can't take a different opinion

 

[DailyKaizen]

The issue is not the physical play per say, he has proven that he can play against men. It's the speed mixed with the physicality. That you only get in the NHL. I would be more concerned with him playing in the AHL. There are a lot more jabronis in the AHL that are just looking to light up youngsters.

I also like the way MSL and the Habs are handling his development in the NHL. Good mix of spoon feeding and merit. Giving him 1st PP time without merit is just not realistic in pro sports.

One thing that is often cited but quickly forgotten is patience. This year is a development year for our core young group. Trust the process - we finally have good people at the controls. Fans bases (not only Habs) are a bit bi-polar. They want development but then expect instant results. That's just not the way it works.

Yes absolutely correct, MSL alluded about this when he, in a press conference or interview brought up the “slow” adaptation and integration of Stamkos… he had to start from the bottom and earn/learn his way up, same with what they are doing with Slaf…remember Aesop’s fable of the tortoise and the hare? When it comes to player development it is more advantageous to view things and take actions with a long term view, being narrow minded or shortsighted is ruinous.

 

[ReHabs]

Yes absolutely correct, MSL alluded about this when he, in a press conference or interview brought up the “slow” adaptation and integration of Stamkos… he had to start from the bottom and earn/learn his way up, same with what they are doing with Slaf…remember Aesop’s fable of the tortoise and the hare? When it comes to player development it is more advantageous to view things and take actions with a long term view, being narrow minded or shortsighted is ruinous.

So rushing an 18 year old to the NHL to play 10-12 minutes and rarely in the 3rd period is pulling a Tortoise or a Hare? Was it Tortoise or Hare when the Habs did it with Kotkaniemi?

 

[BehindTheTimes]

No it's not. Just because the haters post more often doesn't mean you're the majority. Quit your bullshit.

Haters lmao.

 

[DAChampion]

So rushing an 18 year old to the NHL to play 10-12 minutes and rarely in the 3rd period is pulling a Tortoise or a Hare? Was it Tortoise or Hare when the Habs did it with Kotkaniemi?

It's an inane analogy.

How does the tortoise and the hare apply to Slaf?

Is he the tortoise, so he starts in the NhL and never speeds up?

Is he the hare, he starts off behind and never catches up?

 

[ReHabs]

It's an inane analogy.

How does the tortoise and the hare apply to Slaf?

Is he the tortoise, so he starts in the NhL and never speeds up?

Is he the hare, he starts off behind and never catches up?

Exactly right.

Sagely calling for patience in the case of Slafkovsky is another silly rhetorical tool to support the current development strategy without actually vocalizing support for it. At least some of the diehards are adamant that Slaf is best served in the NHL, at least that's a defensible and clear position. Those who wax poetic about patience or tortoise and hare fables want to put their two cents in but are a couple of cents short if you ask me.

These paradigms don't apply to dynamic situations that in progress.

Years from now I can say that the Habs tried to be the Hare with Kotkaniemi/Slafkovsky and it blew up in their face versus, say, HFHabs favourite Tage Thompson who was given ample time to grow, like the tortoise did.

It's a simple question: If this is a decision point, what would you do with Slafkovsky right now -- send him down to the AHL or keep him in the NHL? (And can you elaborate why; and for the purposes of discussion, what would it take to change your mind)

No need to obfuscate.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It's a simple question: If this is a decision point, what would you do with Slafkovsky right now -- send him down to the AHL or keep him in the NHL?

Keep him in the NHL. I say this because I believe that the NHL is the best place to learn to adjust to the NHL.

I also don't think an 18 yo should be in the pressbox other than very, very occasionally (less than 8 games per year), nor should he play too few minutes.

Therefore, I maintain this stance until and unless a young player like this is no longer in the top-12 F or top-6 D, or cannot maintain an average of 9-10 minutes as a F or 11-12 minutes as a D.

At that point, he would need to go play at the level he merits, even if it means that his development may take longer.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It's only puzzling if you can't see the big picture: Slaf is too raw and not NHL-ready. He was too raw and not NHL-ready in Rookie Camp, he was too raw and not NHL-ready in Training Camp, he was too raw and not NHL-ready by game 9 when he should've been sent down, he was too raw and not NHL-ready the c. four times he got blown up and caught with big hits, and he continues to be too raw and not NHL-ready…

As usual, you’re way too over the top.

He looked good up until Monahan’s injury and was making some good progress. I don’t deny the hits are concerning but he didn’t look nearly as out of place as you’re saying here.

Yes I’d have started him in the minors - I’ve already said so. But he hasn’t been the black hole you’re saying he’s been all season long.

I wasn’t happy with the usage before and he’s tanked along with everyone else (except CC and Dach) after Monahan went down, but I haven’t been happy with his usage for most of the season.

Some of this is because I feel like he’s raw but some of it is on MSL. He’s misused him and it’s getting worse now.