Prospect Info: 2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 3

[Wats]

KK didn’t look way better at 18, he‘s not looking way better at 22 in the Canes game I’m watching right now as I type, he’s never looked way better than Slafkovsky.

KK did not look "way better" whatsoever. He looked like someone who was trying to survive. Slaf isn't "much more superior", his positioning is off like it was for KK, but he's certainly showing higher flashes and his game tonight showed a lot more of them than KK ever did. This is coming from someone who liked KK quite a bit.

Like I said, convenient memory loss:

C/W Jesperi Kotkaniemi (2018, 3rd, MTL) Part III

continue from... https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/c-w-jesperi-kotkaniemi-%C3%84ss%C3%A4t-liiga-2018-3rd-mtl-part-ii.2515129/

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C/W Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Ässät, Liiga (2018, 3rd, MTL) Part II

Barkov was a lot further along his development path, both physically and as a player. That’s just a dishonest argument. A lot further in what sense? He was younger at the time of the draft. You’re going to tell me it’s all because he played in Liiga at 16. I’m going to tell you that’s not the...

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Reading through that is eerily similar how there was also many arguments how he just had to be in NHL. Slafkovsky is no doubt showing flashes but really don't agree he's showing enough to warrant staying up past 8/9 games.

 

[lamp9post]

To me Slaf's development path will depend on how well he improves his play away from the puck in the next 5-10 games. Currently he too often finds himself in those 'in between' areas where he's not guarding anyone yet also a few strides too late arriving to puck battles. Poor play without means less play with the puck, which he needs to develop confidence on that end. I like what I've seen from him with the puck and on the rush, but he's not getting those reps often enough at this rate.

 

[Andy]

Regarding comments about play away from the puck:

95% of rookies need to improve this, and it takes them years to learn how to play well away from the puck. Examining his play away from the puck with a magnifying glass is just nitpicking because he likely will still be lost by the end of this season. Holding him accountable for this in his rookie season is silly.​

​

What's important for this short sample size is seeing areas of improvement in his offensive game.

Since the start of camp we've seen improvements in decision making as to deciding when to dump. At the beginning of camp he was constantly carrying the puck even when there was 0 chance to gain the zone. There is still work to be done, but you've seen improvement, that is a good sign. On most occasions he now recognizes there is no play and sends it in the zone.​

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At the beginning camp his board play was non-existent. He still gets pushed off the puck, but his board play has already improved in a month. Another good sign.​

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His passing on the counter attack in the neutral zone has improved considerably. At the beginning of camp his passes were constantly getting picked off or the defender would successfully stick check him before he'd complete the pass attempt. He's now getting passes through to his teammates in the neutral zone and creating chances off the rush.​

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Plays in the offensive zone. At the beginning of camp he kept trying to deke defenders on the half wall. He's now using his body more to protect the puck and make a simple pass to continue the cycle. He's also improved in terms of finding ice and slowing down the play to make cross ice passes. He's found passing lanes that I didn't even know were there and has shown very good vision for an 18 year old.​

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People need to get over the fact that he's not going to be an 18 year old that dominates. What's important is game to game progression, and you would be lying to yourself if you said there 0 was progression. The strides aren't huge, but that there is incremental progression is a good sign. As long as that continues, good things will come.

 

[Naslundforever]

Loved his game last night, played like a big man with his big ass, played a good simple game.

His ramp up fits nicely with the deadwood contracts expiring (love the term now). His play is noticeably better each game.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I don't think it's ruling out any future success to say he's not ready for the NHL right now and is outmatched at this level. Has he had a single shot on goal yet?

Unless they are trying to turn him into a grinder he should be playing at a level he is capable of producing at since his offensive instincts still need a lot of work. Assuming they aren't just trying to showcase him for a PLD trade since a lot of the fan base is already convinced we can be a playoff bubble team again this year.

This is fair but if he's improving noticeably with each game, that's what you really want to see. As long as he keeps improving he should stay imo. That is the most important thing. Many young players struggle initially. What's important is you see growth. If you keep seeing that then I wouldn't worry.

Like I said, convenient memory loss:

C/W Jesperi Kotkaniemi (2018, 3rd, MTL) Part III

continue from... https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/c-w-jesperi-kotkaniemi-%C3%84ss%C3%A4t-liiga-2018-3rd-mtl-part-ii.2515129/

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C/W Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Ässät, Liiga (2018, 3rd, MTL) Part II

Barkov was a lot further along his development path, both physically and as a player. That’s just a dishonest argument. A lot further in what sense? He was younger at the time of the draft. You’re going to tell me it’s all because he played in Liiga at 16. I’m going to tell you that’s not the...

forums.hfboards.com

Reading through that is eerily similar how there was also many arguments how he just had to be in NHL. Slafkovsky is no doubt showing flashes but really don't agree he's showing enough to warrant staying up past 8/9 games.

Kotkaniemi looked really good in his rookie year especially for his physical immaturity and how very young he was. I've seen this same revisionism. The problem is he didn't grow his game whether that was his fault or management's.

 

[Captain Mountain]

His progress and results (not playstyle) reminds me of Kotkaniemi in his rookie year. I simply have more faith that the current management group has a better understanding of player development to not make the mistakes of the Bergevin era. Since I don't see him getting greater opportunities in the NHL this season, I expect him to be sent to the AHL before too long.

 

[lamp9post]

Regarding comments about play away from the puck:

95% of rookies need to improve this, and it takes them years to learn how to play well away from the puck. Examining his play away from the puck with a magnifying glass is just nitpicking because he likely will still be lost by the end of this season. Holding him accountable for this in his rookie season is silly.​

Yes, however this is not as pronounced among more mature rookies (i.e. draft + 2/3 players). Guys like Guhle and Harris for example are already pretty well schooled without the puck. It is a bit different for a raw 18 year old coming in from Europe. And 95% of the game is playing without the puck. If we're fine with him just standing around until the puck magically winds up on his stick then we're going to end up with Galchenyuk 2.0. You definitely want him to show improvement in this area over the course of the season wherever he plays. It's simple - the better he is without the puck, the more reps he'll get with the puck.

Also, didn't St. Louis recently say something to the effect that he's not looking to coach players with the puck because they are the present and players without the puck are the future? And isn't 'puck support' one of the main 'concepts' he's been preaching? I hope the coaching staff understands that he shouldn't look as lost by the end of the season.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

While he hasn’t shown many offensive flashes, he’s actually really solidified himself in regards to positioning and defensive responsibility- which were actually his biggest issues. To me, that’s a great sign.

That said, I think ultimately we should send him to the AHL and let him play top line minutes, get some PP time, and get his offence going against lesser competition. Right now, the NHL is too good for him to make offensive plays.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Word is Shane Wright may go back to OHL he's a healthy scratch again. Maybe this draft will end up being a disappointment, or just too hyped up by the turds at TSN as usual. They make so much noise drawing attention to their prospect coverage that's it's hard to take it seriously anymore. Bobby Mack relies on his rankings , he's the king of hype too.

Back to Slav - 9 games here, but he should be on the PP because we know he isn't sticking around. But is Laval even the best place for him? Maye he should go back home

Not playing in the nhl at 18 means the draft is a bust? 1-2 players a year make it at most.

 

[LaP]

Kotkaniemi looked really good in his rookie year especially for his physical immaturity and how very young he was. I've seen this same revisionism. The problem is he didn't grow his game whether that was his fault or management's.

MB himself said the kids had to figure it out by themselves. SO we know they more than likely did not try to help JK improve his game. Now can he improve his game in a better environment like Carolina we will know in the next 2 seasons.

 

[vlady]

Hes routinely bumped off the puck by almost every players and he falls over when breathed on. Its strength, coordination and balance. Though lack of experience surely affects him too.

I was ok with your skepticism regarding Slaf, but now you're just taking it into overdrive You never give him credit for anything. Doesn't sound like you are being intellectually honest.

I have seen all 4 games and the way I see it, he is already a pretty decent bottom 6 player as he is now. He is not a liability defensively, he competes hard every shift, he is capable of creating chances for his linemates and as a bonus he has shown a knack for really good breakout passes.

Sure, he only has 1 shot in those 4 games, which is admittedly a poor number, but he has also hit the post once. With a little more luck, he could have appeared on the scoresheet by now.

I am not even going to blame his linemates for his lack of production. He does need to shoot more and be a little more assertive. That's probably down to confidence and experience.

I am not sure why he is literally the least used player on the team in terms of ice time. Not sure why they haven't tried him on the 2nd line and/or 2nd PP unit. It's not like the PP is lighting it up.

If it continues like this, then I won't mind them sending him to Laval. But I think he should at least be given a fair shot at the top 6 and PP before they do that. Let him gain some confidence and pick up some points with better linemates and more ice time.

Suggesting he should go to junior is ridiculous at this point.

 

[Mrb1p]

I was ok with your skepticism regarding Slaf, but now you're just taking it into overdrive You never give him credit for anything. Doesn't sound like you are being intellectually honest.

I have seen all 4 games and the way I see it, he is already a pretty decent bottom 6 player as he is now. He is not a liability defensively, he competes hard every shift, he is capable of creating chances for his linemates and as a bonus he has shown a knack for really good breakout passes.

Sure, he only has 1 shot in those 4 games, which is admittedly a poor number, but he has also hit the post once. With a little more luck, he could have appeared on the scoresheet by now.

I am not even going to blame his linemates for his lack of production. He does need to shoot more and be a little more assertive. That's probably down to confidence and experience.

I am not sure why he is literally the least used player on the team in terms of ice time. Not sure why they haven't tried him on the 2nd line and/or 2nd PP unit. It's not like the PP is lighting it up.

If it continues like this, then I won't mind them sending him to Laval. But I think he should at least be given a fair shot at the top 6 and PP before they do that. Let him gain some confidence and pick up some points with better linemates and more ice time.

Suggesting he should go to junior is ridiculous at this point.

Skepticism? I think he can be as good as you think he can be.

I think he needs puck touches to get there and I dont have bleu blanc rouge colored glasses when looking at him.

Hes just not a NHL player right now, nothing suggest he is. The only redeeming asset he has is that he can stickhandle in a phone booth and thread a pass anywhere, but hes not doing that because hes late for pucks, gets outmuscled and whiffs on pucks.

I am not skeptical. Just like I was not skeptical of Kotkaniemi. Both players needed time and puck touches. There is no place like the OHL for that.

Also we need to stop with the strength/size thing. Hes weak in the NHL right now and hes weak in the AHL. In the OHL he will have the same advantage over players that he should have in his prime.

Did the CHL hurt Guhle and Xhekaj ? No. Because no prospect has ever been hurt by taking the long road.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I was ok with your skepticism regarding Slaf, but now you're just taking it into overdrive You never give him credit for anything. Doesn't sound like you are being intellectually honest.

I have seen all 4 games and the way I see it, he is already a pretty decent bottom 6 player as he is now. He is not a liability defensively, he competes hard every shift, he is capable of creating chances for his linemates and as a bonus he has shown a knack for really good breakout passes.

Sure, he only has 1 shot in those 4 games, which is admittedly a poor number, but he has also hit the post once. With a little more luck, he could have appeared on the scoresheet by now.

I am not even going to blame his linemates for his lack of production. He does need to shoot more and be a little more assertive. That's probably down to confidence and experience.

I am not sure why he is literally the least used player on the team in terms of ice time. Not sure why they haven't tried him on the 2nd line and/or 2nd PP unit. It's not like the PP is lighting it up.

If it continues like this, then I won't mind them sending him to Laval. But I think he should at least be given a fair shot at the top 6 and PP before they do that. Let him gain some confidence and pick up some points with better linemates and more ice time.

Suggesting he should go to junior is ridiculous at this point.

I think when you see what they're doing with Harris and Guhle you have to be heartened and willing to give MSL the benefit of the doubt. Guhle and Harris are a few years older. Bringing Slaf along a little slower is totally fine with me. I'm confident that if he just keeps getting better those opportunities will come.

It's really a case by case basis on how to deal with younger players. It's all about being flexible and up to the moment receptive on what is best for that player. As of now MSL has done nothing but earn that trust from me in his handling the youth since he's started and up till now.

 

[Goldenhands]

I was ok with your skepticism regarding Slaf, but now you're just taking it into overdrive You never give him credit for anything. Doesn't sound like you are being intellectually honest.

I have seen all 4 games and the way I see it, he is already a pretty decent bottom 6 player as he is now. He is not a liability defensively, he competes hard every shift, he is capable of creating chances for his linemates and as a bonus he has shown a knack for really good breakout passes.

Sure, he only has 1 shot in those 4 games, which is admittedly a poor number, but he has also hit the post once. With a little more luck, he could have appeared on the scoresheet by now.

I am not even going to blame his linemates for his lack of production. He does need to shoot more and be a little more assertive. That's probably down to confidence and experience.

I am not sure why he is literally the least used player on the team in terms of ice time. Not sure why they haven't tried him on the 2nd line and/or 2nd PP unit. It's not like the PP is lighting it up.

If it continues like this, then I won't mind them sending him to Laval. But I think he should at least be given a fair shot at the top 6 and PP before they do that. Let him gain some confidence and pick up some points with better linemates and more ice time.

Suggesting he should go to junior is ridiculous at this point.

Great post!

 

[BlackEye from Xhekaj]

It was difficult for Slaf to stand out in Liiga too. It was very difficult for him, in fact.

Wanna know why he’s under the microscope? Because nobody actually believes he was anything more than a massive gamble and, for the third time in three tanks, the Habs rushed the teenager into the NHLer.

Well, you've said in previous posts that you never watched him in Liiga.. sooooooo to say that he never stood out, where is this information coming from? Your stat checks, right!?

Secondly, nobody thinks he's a massive gamble.. you, sure, but your opinion is based off of loose stat checks and personal bias. He was one of the top prospects in this draft, and would have been selected as one by 32 NHL teams.

Thirdly, having a kid play 4 NHL games doesn't constitute as being rushed to the NHL. Hell, having him play 20 NHL games isn't being rushed to the NHL. Your arguments just seem to be getting worse and worse.

 

[ReHabs]

Not a massive gamble when you consider all of that top 10 projects to be 2nd line ish type talent.

You could be right... He disappoints. However, it's very premature type focus on trying to project his future. Don't speak for others. "Nobody believes in him". BS type exaggeration.

He's not rushed to to NHL yet. He's getting a few games and we go from there. You monitor the situation for each player independently. Do you seriously think he's going to be ruined cause he played 4 NHL games? Or even 9? Give us a break with that eh

I never said nobody believes in him, so if I had said it it would be BS. He did have a lot of question marks pre-draft that haven't been remotely answered. Questions marks that make him a big gamble. He was possibly the biggest swing in the top4/6 was Slafkovsky... if you hit it, awesome, but what happens when you miss a swing? You fall on your ass. That's a gamble, isn't it? If the Habs had drafted Nemec or Jiricek or Wright or Cooley there was obviously going to be an inevitable chance of a bust (to be determined, many years from now) but their floor was rather obvious. What's Slaf's floor -- can you tell me?

Starting the season in the NHL is the unfortunate fact -- that is despite his mediocre Rookie and Training camps and the despite the fact he had a lot of adapting to do. He was rushed into it the NHL, you can admit it - it won't hurt. What happens next is up to the Habs but giving him a few games in the NHL is fine, and elsewhere I wrote that we could view this as his Red Shirt year... but... is it really the best thing for a player who has a lot to learn in terms of hockey IQ and learning how to produce points? I'm not a hockey coach, what do I know. But I think it's a discussion worth having - don't you?

Well, you've said in previous posts that you never watched him in Liiga.. sooooooo to say that he never stood out, where is this information coming from? Your stat checks, right!?

Secondly, nobody thinks he's a massive gamble.. you, sure, but your opinion is based off of loose stat checks and personal bias. He was one of the top prospects in this draft, and would have been selected as one by 32 NHL teams.

Thirdly, having a kid play 4 NHL games doesn't constitute as being rushed to the NHL. Hell, having him play 20 NHL games isn't being rushed to the NHL. Your arguments just seem to be getting worse and worse.

People who had the time to watch him in Liiga said he struggled. People who were making excuses for him in Liiga said he struggled. I don't need to waste my time watching Liiga -- feel free though. I'm a Habs fan first, hockey fan distantly second. Not ashamed of that.

Plenty of people think Slaf has a very low floor (ie high bust potential). Of course he'd be drafted but I wouldn't have used a 1OA on him, no way. His profile is riddled with red flags.

Thirdly, this one is the best, it's a complete re-tread of the same arguments Bergevin fans were saying about Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi. Some people never learn.

 

[ReHabs]

Did the CHL hurt Guhle and Xhekaj ? No. Because no prospect has ever been hurt by taking the long road.

Bravo.

The same people who want to waste year after year tanking also think rushing young players into the NHL is worthwhile... so they can turn on those players and criticize them when they inevitably bust and struggle.... so then can then champion another five years+ of tanking for the sake of picking up high draft position players.

A ridiculous obsession. I have no patience for tanking but a lot of patience for prospects, let them ripen in a position they can learn, the big team doesn't need them right now. Slaf is meant to be more important than 18 of our 20 forwards right now and all of our prospects... so why are they rushing him into the NHL right now? Sending him to where he can work on what he needs to work on makes a lot of sense to me.

On the other hand, if this is his red shirt year, I really hope he spends some time in Laval so we can all breathe easy when he does put up points. If he is sent to Laval weeks from now and doesn't put up points easily, what then? Don't call him up until he does.

 

[Andy]

How can a player be a gamble when most scouts had him 1 or 2 or when the scouts polled by McKenzie had him at #1?

A gamble is taking someone rated at #5 as the first overall. Taking a ranked #1 at #1 isn't a gamble

Yes, however this is not as pronounced among more mature rookies (i.e. draft + 2/3 players). Guys like Guhle and Harris for example are already pretty well schooled without the puck.

These are defenseman. Playing without the puck is a fundamental skill. They are also older players. I'm not sure why you'd even bring them up as comparisons.

Most 18 years olds thrown into the nhl will be bad away from the puck. It's such a silly thing for fans to nitpick on unless one's goal is just to emphasize every negative possible.

 

[Mrb1p]

How can a player be a gamble when most scouts had him 1 or 2 or when the scouts polled by McKenzie had him at #1?

A gamble is taking someone rated at #5 as the first overall. Taking a ranked #1 at #1 isn't a gamble

If you think that Bob Macks ranking is some kind of monolith of scouting, sure. Otherwise who cares about the rankings, really. And who cares about players picked after even so.

I think everyone can agree hes a project, hes a gamble on some untouched potential. Its fine, he could be an insane player.

 

[Trabdy2]

To my eye, he seems to "barely belong" in the NHL right now.

He's playing sheltered minutes and he seems to rarely be getting puck touches. He has just 1 SOG in 4 games, but he is showing flashes of good body positioning to try to make plays with the puck. There are fairly regular miscues happening in his game on the ice, but overall they are not really hurting the team. He seems to be struggling to adapt to the NHL speed and skill level, which isn't unusual for an 18 year old.

I imagine the coaching staff wants to keep him up to teach him and see how quickly he can learn and adapt, as he's already shown he's learned a bit. But I'm a bit concerned with how few puck touches he's getting and how it might affect the development of his offensive game and confidence if we see this for an an extended period in the season. At the same time, it's still so early in the season and his career, so I'm not ready to be very critical of how the team is handling him or his play.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

He will score Thursday night!

Laval is where he then needs to go! 9 games and please send him down, no point of him being a 4th liner here and struggle.

 

[ReHabs]

How can a player be a gamble when most scouts had him 1 or 2 or when the scouts polled by McKenzie had him at #1?

A gamble is taking someone rated at #5 as the first overall. Taking a ranked #1 at #1 isn't a gamble

He's a gamble in the sense that you have ZERO clue what kind of NHL production will come out of him. 30-40 points like Armia, 40-50 like Anderson, 60+? No clue. He's super raw and a project and has not much history putting up big points, and certainly not in his draft year.

It's a massive gamble. A preponderance of think his upside is worth the gamble of his downside, that's great and I'd agree... but not with the 1OA pick.

But the pick was made, so let's stop acting like he's bound for success and we're entitled to it because that couldn't be further from the truth. The path is perilous. Delusion doesn't help anybody here... Slaf needs to adapt and develop his game, big time. Maybe it'll happen within his current situation in the NHL.

 

[dinodebino]

I never said nobody believes in him, so if I had said it it would be BS. He did have a lot of question marks pre-draft that haven't been remotely answered. Questions marks that make him a big gamble. He was possibly the biggest swing in the top4/6 was Slafkovsky... if you hit it, awesome, but what happens when you miss a swing? You fall on your ass. That's a gamble, isn't it? If the Habs had drafted Nemec or Jiricek or Wright or Cooley there was obviously going to be an inevitable chance of a bust (to be determined, many years from now) but their floor was rather obvious. What's Slaf's floor -- can you tell me?

Starting the season in the NHL is the unfortunate fact -- that is despite his mediocre Rookie and Training camps and the despite the fact he had a lot of adapting to do. He was rushed into it the NHL, you can admit it - it won't hurt. What happens next is up to the Habs but giving him a few games in the NHL is fine, and elsewhere I wrote that we could view this as his Red Shirt year... but... is it really the best thing for a player who has a lot to learn in terms of hockey IQ and learning how to produce points? I'm not a hockey coach, what do I know. But I think it's a discussion worth having - don't you?


People who had the time to watch him in Liiga said he struggled. People who were making excuses for him in Liiga said he struggled. I don't need to waste my time watching Liiga -- feel free though. I'm a Habs fan first, hockey fan distantly second. Not ashamed of that.

Plenty of people think Slaf has a very low floor (ie high bust potential). Of course he'd be drafted but I wouldn't have used a 1OA on him, no way. His profile is riddled with red flags.

Thirdly, this one is the best, it's a complete re-tread of the same arguments Bergevin fans were saying about Galchenyuk and Kotkaniemi. Some people never learn.

More than half the teams surveyed by the retired ‘insider’ had picked Slaf as their number one. When the close majority of teams pick you instead of the others, it means that the others ARE the gamble. Not you.

Was he my choice? No. I had believed the Wright hype, even though all of the year’s showcase games had disappointed me. I even expressed discontent at the posters amd McScagg who were pimping this lanky feller.

Well, if 50%+ of teams thought he was the least troublesome pick, then I have to rally, and that’s what I did.

The Ds you are talking about? Well, they have shown squat as of today. In fact, you could argue that the best 18 year old at camp in the league was Beck.

 

[vlady]

I never said nobody believes in him, so if I had said it it would be BS. He did have a lot of question marks pre-draft that haven't been remotely answered. Questions marks that make him a big gamble. He was possibly the biggest swing in the top4/6 was Slafkovsky... if you hit it, awesome, but what happens when you miss a swing? You fall on your ass. That's a gamble, isn't it? If the Habs had drafted Nemec or Jiricek or Wright or Cooley there was obviously going to be an inevitable chance of a bust (to be determined, many years from now) but their floor was rather obvious. What's Slaf's floor -- can you tell me?

I completely disagree with the bolded part. He definitely doesn't have the lowest floor of these guys. He is the best of the class as of today 18 October 2022. Only he and Wright have played in the NHL. He is the only one of the lot that can be debated as "NHL ready" even though there is admittedly no consensus in this regard. With the other prospects there is no such debate though.

What evidence do you have to support your claim? Are there any scouts who have said something to that effect?

 

[lamp9post]

These are defenseman. Playing without the puck is a fundamental skill. They are also older players. I'm not sure why you'd even bring them up as comparisons.

Most 18 years olds thrown into the nhl will be bad away from the puck. It's such a silly thing for fans to nitpick on unless one's goal is just to emphasize every negative possible.

You said that 95% of rookies need to improve their play without the puck. Are you now saying that defensemen don't count? Do you not see a difference in play without the puck between D+1 rookies and D+3 rookies?

It's not nit-picking or negative. It's an honest assessment of his play and part of the discussion that surrounds this player.