Prospect Info: [2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 2

[Hacketts]

So i specifically said if we want him to become a DOMINANT 1st liner... He's not ready for THAT role. Are you disagreeing with what i'm saying so far? I guess not, i think its a pretty rational assessment we can all agree on.
I think for him to become a DOMINANT 1st liner he really needs to dominate the OHL 2-3 years and another 2 years in the AHL.
You shouldnt laugh at what im saying, Montreal has NEVER developed a DOMINANT 1st liner in the past at least 30 years? the last one to succeed was Patioready and at the end we f***ed that one up too by naming him captain even though he dint deserve it.

Slaf is nowhere near good enough to play in the NHL, yes he played againts men in Liiga but he din't do much there.

Don't rush him, if we rush this guy he's going to 100% bust.

As for Mesar, Mesar does not have the same upside as Slaf. Mesar is alot closer to his ceiling than Slafs and his hockey IQ is at par with other 1st liners in the league if not better than some of them. Mesar's potential is a top 6 forward, 2nd center or 1st line winger, PP and PK specialist... where as Slaf's potential is to be a franchise player who's consistently top 5 in points in the NHL. The only problem is that he's not ready for that role yet.

Show me where im wrong

I think your posts are far from rational, I believe you're the same poster who had one of the best conspiracies in recent memory.

I don't disagree on the point that I don't think it would be a bad idea for him to DOMINATE somewhere at a LOWER level before making the jump if he shows us he's not ready. Let's see what he could do in Laval for a year, and go from there.

 

[durojean]

The most interesting thing is the fans’ reaction to Slafkovsky. Every time he touches the puck you can hear their excitement and anticipation. When’s the last time we had a player like that? Kovalev? Richer? This kid has enormous potential. Will he achieve it? That’s the question. But I always go with players with the highest upside. They’re the ones that win you championships.

Fans does not react like that because of his personnality. they react like that because he was 1st overall and they want him to succeed. It's got nothing to do with charisma.

Wright for a long time had the potential to be a McDavid ( at least stats wise ) and he already prove that he could play any kind of game (despite being at different times and different years ). He had easily the highest upside at the time of the draft.

 

[durojean]

how can you even say it was a great draft, for another 3 or 4 years? Gotta tamper expectations here

Why ? So it's easier not being disappointed if Slafkovsky fail ?

It is my opinion that there was a lot of potential in this draft and 2 years ago it was seen as such. Suddenly, everyone changed their mind 6 months before the draft.

My theory is that they could not factor in COVID consequences properly and that those players will slowly grind up to where they should have been and that we'll feel stupid in 3 or 4 years.

I may really well be wrong. It is just a pronostic from my part. Why tamper my expecations ? I really have the right to believe in this draft class.

 

[Kennerback]

You literally said 2-3 years in the OHL and 2 in the AHL. That would be rotting.

It's insane that anyone would suggest that. Slaf wouldn't play I'm the NHL until he was 23 if that was the plan. You understand that Suzuki just turned 23 right? Caufield just turned 22? Players don't wait until 23 to join the league anymore unless they were late round picks.

I understand 1 year in the AHL is a valid argument for Slaf and would be reasonable but 5?

3 years in the OHL should fully acclimatize Slaf to NA. Then, why not, 2 more years in Laval. What could go wrong?

 

[durojean]

How I see it:

From now on, I don't see Juraj Slafkovsky as a 1st overall pick.

The 2022 draft had no prodigy, no obvious stars to pick from.

We were presented with a variety of pieces for the rebuilding puzzle.

We got a player with some great strengths and some flaws.

Far from perfect in IQ, skills, etc.

But, his tools are difficult to find and replace, and important to have in the overall puzzle.

Maybe, some random pick we made, will end up better than him. No problem from me. As long as Slaf can be that semi-powerforward type with some skills completing lines and bringing a strong will in big moments and energy in his intentions.

I don't want to lamentably lose him because everyone puts too much pressure on him to become the next Jagr. Let's just be happy we got a rare piece of the future puzzle. He is what he is. Good if he becomes more than what I described. Otherwise, still a unique player.

That is what I'm trying to argue.

Wright was supposed to be a prodigy. If in the next years, he's showing that he actually is. The it becomes a major mistakes from the Habs.

Juraj was first overall, he should be expected to be as good as such. I will defer to that only in 6 or 7 years if it is clearly proven that this class was really not good.

 

[jrom]

Fans does not react like that because of his personnality. they react like that because he was 1st overall and they want him to succeed. It's got nothing to do with charisma.

Wright for a long time had the potential to be a McDavid ( at least stats wise ) and he already prove that he could play any kind of game (despite being at different times and different years ). He had easily the highest upside at the time of the draft.

That is your opinion, not a fact, at least 3 NHL teams didn’t believe that. In a couple of year we’ll see who was right (maybe you are).

 

[Bombshell11]

You literally said 2-3 years in the OHL and 2 in the AHL. That would be rotting.

It's insane that anyone would suggest that. Slaf wouldn't play I'm the NHL until he was 23 if that was the plan. You understand that Suzuki just turned 23 right? Caufield just turned 22? Players don't wait until 23 to join the league anymore unless they were late round picks.

I understand 1 year in the AHL is a valid argument for Slaf and would be reasonable but 5?

I feel we're arguing to disagree.

lets see how he does, im sure they'll try him a few nhl games at least.

Maybe he's a fast learner? I think he's not but lets see?

 

[durojean]

That is your opinion, not a fact, at least 3 NHL teams didn’t believe that. In a couple of year we’ll see who was right (maybe you are).

I understand it is my opinion. I understand I can be wrong. In fact I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Captain97]

I feel we're arguing to disagree.

lets see how he does, im sure they'll try him a few nhl games at least.

Maybe he's a fast learner? I think he's not but lets see?

I agree, we likely won't agree. Just acknowledge that you want a player to play as an overager in Juniors? When taken 1st overall if that happened for anyone picked earlier than the 5th round we'd instantly call them a bust.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Wright is a NERD. No thanks

 

[SlafySZN]

Wright is a NERD. No thanks

Owen Beck is a nerd too

 

[Kennerback]

I agree, we likely won't agree. Just acknowledge that you want a player to play as an overager in Juniors? When taken 1st overall if that happened for anyone picked earlier than the 5th round we'd instantly call them a bust.

Maybe Slaf needs to play as an OHL overager to atone for the sins of Galchenyuk and KK?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Wright is a NERD. No thanks

 

[MoneyManny]

People wanting to see the 1OA play in the NHL right away or treating him differently because he's a 1OA is exactly why this pick will bust. I don't care if its MSL the coach behind the bench but this player needs to learn the skills he's trying to use in game and he needs to be in an environment where he'll have the time and space to practice them during a game. Also he needs to learn how the NA game is played, he looks lost out there sometimes.

We all know we cant send him to the AHL because Houle and if we keep him and play him in the 4th line?????!?!? he'll definitely rot and bust. Houle used him to screen a goalie ffs LOL

Not sure why we're arguing about this. Same people say Mesar needs to go down to gain some wheight? It's alot easier to gain a few lb than to learn skills. I find it so hypocritical. Mesar could easely play on the PP and be an asset there, he could also play on the 3rd and 4th line and help the first 2 lines from time to time.
Slaf will be a liability on the PP and on the first 2 lines... it wont be good for his development if he finishes the year with 60 games played 8 mins avg and 4 goals and 12 points.

What i'm talking about is for a safe and smooth transition into the NHL, he wont rot as long as he's learning. Give him the NHL job when he deserves it, could be sooner than what i said but to me his IQ seems so poor i feel like he'll be a slow learner and thats ok.

Playing against lower competition doesn't mean a safe and smooth transition to the NHL. It means a higher chance of teaching Slaf bad habits and making him more lazy and complacant, unless he's completely outmatched in the NHL. And if it takes the man 5 years to be able to follow the speed of the NHL, Slaf is probably not becoming a 1st liner anyway.

I'm not saying he needs to be in the NHL right away necessarily, but your timeline is completely ridiculous and is the protocol to follow when you're trying to salvage a total bust, not groom a quality player.

 

[417]

I think your posts are far from rational, I believe you're the same poster who had one of the best conspiracies in recent memory.

I don't disagree on the point that I don't think it would be a bad idea for him to DOMINATE somewhere at a LOWER level before making the jump if he shows us he's not ready. Let's see what he could do in Laval for a year, and go from there.

Dominating against inferior competition does little, if anything, for the player.

The biggest benefit is re-assuring the insecure fan that the player is indeed good.

Tons of junior/AHL/european prodigies put up points, but couldn't translate it to the NHL.

It's not a requirement, nor is it an indicator.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Dominating against inferior competition does little, if anything, for the player.

The biggest benefit is re-assuring the insecure fan that the player is indeed good.

Tons of junior/AHL/european prodigies put up points, but couldn't translate it to the NHL.

It's not a requirement, nor is it an indicator.

The thing about dominating against inferior competition is it's kind of a common phrase that people will use that loses its meaning because of the way it is used.

When people say "dominate against inferior competition" the conventional wisdom with this isn't so much about just stacking points on people who can't handle you. It's ensuring the player will have enough time with the puck on their stick in critical game situations to continue to develop those skills. That they continue to develop and refine their games within their own style of play and who they are.

What it is mentioned to guard against is the De La Rose development path when a player is playing in a lower league, then gets called up for an extended period of time to play limited minutes in the bottom 6. Never get to play with the puck. Don't get offensive situations or usage. Then end up just trying to survive on the ice vs. actually implicating themselves in the play and playing their way.

So when we watch Slafkovsky during the pre-season, the question will be - is he implicating himself in a way that shows he's going to play his brand of hockey, how we want him to play, or is he going to dumb it down and just chip pucks in? Because if he's not got the confidence or it's too fast for him to make his plays, then it's better to move him down a level and let him grow in an environment where he can and get those opportunities.

We know that MSL will give him opportunities if he is up vs. someone like Therrien who wouldn't. So it's on the player and their comfort on the ice. If it's not there, send him down to the AHL to grow that confidence so that when he is in the NHL.. we are seeing Juraj Slafkovsky play at the NHL level, not generic NHL 3rd liner.

 

[Mrb1p]

Dominating against inferior competition does little, if anything, for the player.

The biggest benefit is re-assuring the insecure fan that the player is indeed good.

Tons of junior/AHL/european prodigies put up points, but couldn't translate it to the NHL.

It's not a requirement, nor is it an indicator.

What is the ratio of players that did not put up points and dominated the NHL?

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

What is the ratio of players that did not put up points and dominated the NHL?

From EU?

% Is hella high.

 

[Mrb1p]

From EU?

% Is hella high.

I doubt that. Unless you consider draft year pro leagues, then sure, but thats not inferior competition.

 

[417]

What is the ratio of players that did not put up points and dominated the NHL?

Few players dominate in the NHL, if you're using that term appropriately

 

[CDN24]

From EU?

% Is hella high.

Look at a guy like Kopitar. In his draft year he played 30 G in swedish Junior league putting up 49 points or 1.63 pts per game. Nicholas berfors was on the same team putting up 1.61 pts per game.
He also played 15 total regular season and playoff games in SEL going pointless. That was lockout year so the SEL had some Nhlers on it notably Olli Jokinen.

Kopitar was drafted at 11th and bergfors at 23rd. Kopitar was probably the best skater not named Crosby in that draft. Bergfors topped out as a marginal 4th liner.

 

[Mrb1p]

Look at a guy like Kopitar. In his draft year he played 30 G in swedish Junior league putting up 49 points or 1.63 pts per game. Nicholas berfors was on the same team putting up 1.61 pts per game.
He also played 15 total regular season and playoff games in SEL going pointless. That was lockout year so the SEL had some Nhlers on it notably Olli Jokinen.

Kopitar was drafted at 11th and bergfors at 23rd. Kopitar was probably the best skater not named Crosby in that draft. Bergfors topped out as a marginal 4th liner.

A few things to note

1. Cherry picking isnt proving anything.
2. Kopitar was a rookie, Bergfors was not.
3. Kopitar was always huge and lanky, Bergfors wasnt.
4. I dont think you can say that Anze isnt exactly an example of a player showing success by skipping steps. He played in the SHL the year after and then the NHL. Bergfors made bigger jumps, from j20 to AHL.

Few players dominate in the NHL, if you're using that term appropriately

Lets say being a first liner, producing as a top 30 forward in the NHL.

I think being roughly in the top 15-10% of the NHL is close to being a dominant player.

 

[CDN24]

A few things to note

1. Cherry picking isnt proving anything.
2. Kopitar was a rookie, Bergfors was not.
3. Kopitar was always huge and lanky, Bergfors wasnt.
4. I dont think you can say that Anze isnt exactly an example of a player showing success by skipping steps. He played in the SHL the year after and then the NHL. Bergfors made bigger jumps, from j20 to AHL.


Lets say being a first liner, producing as a top 30 forward in the NHL.

I think being roughly in the top 15-10% of the NHL is close to being a dominant player.

Not Cherry picking pointing out that with the guys out of Europe scouting seems more important as its hard to compare. The example I used were two guys the same age (both 87 birthdays Bergfors is 5 months older) and same pre draft junior and SEL team. Drafted 12 picks apart in 1st round, one became a star the other never established himself. Bergfors played 25 games on same team in 2004-05 in SEL. I would submit that the SEL is better than the AHL.

 

[Mrb1p]

Not Cherry picking pointing out that with the guys out of Europe scouting seems more important as its hard to compare. The example I used were two guys the same age (both 87 birthdays Bergfors is 5 months older) and same pre draft junior and SEL team. Drafted 12 picks apart in 1st round, one became a star the other never established himself. Bergfors played 25 games on same team in 2004-05 in SEL. I would submit that the SEL is better than the AHL.

The SHL is not betterthsn the AHL.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Fans does not react like that because of his personnality. they react like that because he was 1st overall and they want him to succeed. It's got nothing to do with charisma.

Wright for a long time had the potential to be a McDavid ( at least stats wise ) and he already prove that he could play any kind of game (despite being at different times and different years ). He had easily the highest upside at the time of the draft.

Well, at least three teams disagreed with your assessment of Wright’s relative upside.