Prospect Info: [2022 - 1st OA] Juraj Slafkovsky (LW) Part 2

[JoelWarlord]

That second group doesn’t exist. Many Slaf champions denied that he had any flaws.

One guy maybe. I don't think it is accurate to characterize the "pro-Slafkovsky" camp (however that could be defined) as saying he has no flaws whatsoever.

He was compared to virtually every elite player in NHL history - Jagr, Rantanen, Hossa, you name it. All the tools, all the toolbox, all the pashun, all the Je Ne Sais Quoi. The pressure of ALL OF SLOVAKIA ON HIS BROAD BACK. My lord, what a prospect… what a player!! And he’s only 18! And his size! Wow!!

Yes, STYLISTIC comparisons. Jaromir Jagr himself made a stylistic comparison between Slafkovsky and Jaromir Jagr. The most common and predominant career path comparison was Rantanen. Wright was compared to Ryan O'Reilly and Patrice f***ing Bergeron, come on man. Cooley to Sebastian Aho, Caufield was compared to Lionel Messi on the TV broadcast when he got drafted, this shit does not mean everyone thinks Slafkovsky is a lock to be a top 5 forward of all time like Jagr.

I did not see people by and large deny he had flaws, but I saw a lot of people pushing back against your insinuations that based on his point production he must be a weak passer, or a weak skater, or a weak shooter by replying that he's good at those things. Then your response was usually "oh well I guess he's perfect" when people essentially argued that a toolsy prospect picked for his tools has good tools.

Now when the rubber meets the road everybody in the second group is pumping the breaks and saying the FIRST OVERALL needs more time to reveal himself.

When the rubber meets the road? It's two rookie tournament games, including one where he was unquestionably very impressive. To the extent that any rubber has met the road so far, or there's any need to pump the brakes, it's basically all just things we already know, that this is not a prospect you can pencil in to the lineup from day 1 like McDavid or Eichel or Matthews with no questions asked, and that we'll have to see what happens and that it isn't a big concern if he goes to the AHL to develop. If you want to call that managing expectations I guess it meets the definition of the word, but we had a months-long B-plot in this thread about whether he should start in the NHL, AHL, or OHL. I'm truly puzzled by the insistence that this is some new phase where everyone has just discovered that he isn't McDavid.

If some people who were high on the pick suddenly came to that conclusion based on the two rookie camp games and previously believed he was going to be an instant stud then I guess hooray, you win, but I don't think that's many people. Nor do I think it's somehow either a bad sign or hypocritical to both think he was the BPA (or at the very least a perfectly reasonable choice at 1), while thinking he will likely need time to develop in the AHL. I think the exact same of Wright, Cooley (NCAA in his case), Nemec, Jiricek, Gauthier, etc too. Not to mention that it's still all hypothetical, we don't even know whether or not he'll spend much time in the AHL this year, it's really just that if he needs to it isn't some big problem.

This FIRST OVERALL OMG stuff is really strange to me too, as if every draft class is the same or as if we didn't all know that this was a weaker top end all year. Not to mention that Owen Power went back to college, Lafrenière hasn't done jack shit in the NHL so far, and Hughes didn't break out until his D+3 season. It's weird to me that even saying a #1 overall pick may need time to develop is treated as some damning thing or managing expectations when it's been true of the last three 1st overall picks.

 

[Kennerback]

Boy did they get that right haha. I’m just kidding, I don’t really want to get into this. Slaf will let his play do the talking.


This is exactly what happened imo. Only time will tell.


Should we throw the party now or wait?

The point is you have a handful of busts and an equivalent handful of generational players. Almost all 1OAs are on a spectrum in between. And I don’t need to tell you that no player peaks his first season in the NHL or at 18.

 

[Apfel Struble]

I think the chaos he generates in the d zone is what sets him appart as a player. He creates so much free space for his teammates because of his combo of size, power, puck protection, skating, hands and puck distribution is special. The other team has to dedicate more coverage on him and it frees some ice. I don't think it's a coincidence he had better stats when the level of talent of his teammates went up

Slaf feels a bit like a support player in that regard IMO, he'll go as far as his most talented linemate. If the Habs can draft Bedard or Michkov next year, he could enable them so much. It could probably work with Caufield too but to a lesser degree I guess

 

[ole ole]

Slafkovsky, the No. 1 pick in the 2022 NHL Draft, tipped the scales at an impressive 238 pounds 11 more than his listed weight when he attended the team’s development camp in July — when arriving at rookie camp with the Montreal Canadiens earlier this week.

I read somewheres he's now the 4th heaviest player in the league.

 

[tooji]

How can a draft pick be “disappointing” after a scrimmage game?

 

[FF de Mars]

I think the chaos he generates in the d zone is what sets him appart as a player. He creates so much free space for his teammates because of his combo of size, power, puck protection, skating, hands and puck distribution is special. The other team has to dedicate more coverage on him and it frees some ice. I don't think it's a coincidence he had better stats when the level of talent of his teammates went up

Slaf feels a bit like a support player in that regard IMO, he'll go as far as his most talented linemate. If the Habs can draft Bedard or Michkov next year, he could enable them so much. It could probably work with Caufield too but to a lesser degree I guess

Please let me have an NFL comparison: a strong line, either D or O, makes a whole lot of difference; and Slafkovsky is kind of a one man line, creating time for the QB to make his plays or on defense pressuring with his octopus stick and elite board game.

 

[Belial]

How can a draft pick be “disappointing” after a scrimmage game?

Excessive expectations...

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

This thread is amusing, way too much analysis of the rookie tournament. We have a relatively raw prospect with ridiculous size/strength/puck protection skills for an 18 year old forward. He needs to improve his mapping of the ice, lengthen his stride and improve his F2 and F3 spacing....none of these things are new to the conversation and remain the same as when he was drafted.

One thing that I have not heard people mention is he needs to snap off his dekes as opposed to gliding into them. Both his hands and feet work well together but his dekes need to be executed with more violence in his movements in order to translate into significant production. He clearly has some silky mitts and deft edge work but it is very obvious when he is going to deke, pass or shoot. Nicholas will be a great help in this area by getting him to transition from deke to shot/pass in quick compact movements. Slaf currently tends to execute slower developing movements that end with him having to initiate loading his shot at the conclusion of a deke as opposed to loading it during the deke.

The kid has the hands and skills to become a great student for Nicholas and I can 100% guarantee that Nicholas' top priority with Slafkovsky is to make him as dangerous of a shooter as he can. It will be a ton of fun watching this play out as long as everyone remains realistic and patient.

 

[ReHabs]

1. There was like one person who denied he had any flaws. Any time you have someone who denies anything needing improvement or only talks about things someone doesn't do well - you ignore that person as they have a bias that won't allow them to paint an accurate picture.

2. Who cares? Every prospect gets compared to elite players. Those are stylistic comparisons and if you drew production and career parallels to that, that's on you for not understanding how player comps work. Shane Wright got compared to Patrice Bergeron and that's f***ing stupid too if you think that Wright would ever sniff a career like Bergeron's.

3. Yeah, he has a lot of tools and he did a lot for Slovakian hockey. He's also a big specimen with those skills. It's clear that's why a lot of hockey people valued him highly. This doesn't mean that a player doesn't need to develop.

4. Yeah you should pump the brakes because outside of one person, most of the discussion was where does he start, the NHL, AHL or OHL because most people understand he wasn't a finished product.. as most 1st overall picks aren't. You have to go back to Matthews to find the last 1st overall who was an instant game changer in their first year. As I told MRB1P, the expectations you are putting on a 1st overall by not reconciling just because one 1st overall is McDavid, doesn't mean they all are. That's on you, buddy.

5. Yes, we should see in training camp because it's a better evaluation. Even if he blows the doors off or he's not ready, neither of those will guarantee anything about his career because he's 18. Imagine writing MacKinnon off after his 3rd season and thinking he's just another Galchenyuk.

I didn't see much push back against those multiple "one person"s. It became the under-girding of Slaf talk -- that he had the tools, and the toolbox, and the drive, and the size, and the and the and the. Any time any one would question his skating, four people would jump in and say he's an incredible skater. Same with shooting, passing, etc. I remember this vividly because it was surprising to me how someone with all these aspects (that are seemingly beyond reproach) could not produce against Liiga opposition.

Comparisons to other players is a double-edged sword. And despite your denial, it does set the expectations at some level -- if not productivity, then at least in playing style as you say. When's the last time you saw Rantanen, Jagr, or Hossa cut through the middle and ask to get their heads blown off? Rookie camp or not, no smart player does that move twice. We'll see in Training Camp.

Of course he needs to develop and mature, but once again the implication was strong: he proved himself against Men and Pro Hockey Players at the Olys and WCs, he is NHL ready, he has the "highest floor", etc. What does "highest floor" mean to you? To me it means he is already at a high level, let's say wouldn't look lost in a top9 of a NHL team. Would you agree?

I'm tired of people citing McDavid as a way to put Slafkovsky down. No one expects McDavid, in fact I don't think even Slafkovsky's biggest fans would expect McDavid - why do you constantly bring up McDavid? Do you think that makes you look reasonable?

The user you're referring to (with whom I disagree slightly) says that Slaf hasn't shown a wow-factor that other high-end prospects have shown. That's a completely different thing than what you're responding to (which is something that person hasn't even said).

As for MacKinnon -- if Slaf hits 60+ pts in his rookie season, you won't hear much grumbling from anyone. Once again, not a fair comparison... it's unlikely he'll come close to MacKinnon, so why even bring him up?

 

[Kojo]

Habs fans are literally the worst. We got the first overall pick and people are complaining.

 

[ReHabs]

Habs fans are literally the worst. We got the first overall pick and people are complaining.

Yakupov was a 1OA.

 

[Kojo]

Yakupov was a 1OA.

Yakupov wasn't 6'4 230lb at 18 years old.

 

[ReHabs]

Yakupov wasn't 6'4 230lb at 18 years old.

Hugh Jessiman - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Hugh Jessiman, 1984-03-28 New York, NY, USA USA. Most recently in the undefined with Vienna Capitals. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

The size argument is the weakest one, tbh. His tournament performance is his best aspect.

 

[Kojo]

Hugh Jessiman - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Hugh Jessiman, 1984-03-28 New York, NY, USA USA. Most recently in the undefined with Vienna Capitals. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

Yes, I've heard of him.

 

[Prairie Habs]

Hugh Jessiman - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Hugh Jessiman, 1984-03-28 New York, NY, USA USA. Most recently in the undefined with Vienna Capitals. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

The size argument is the weakest one, tbh. His tournament performance is his best aspect.

Difference being that Jessimen was considered a huge reach and his size was his only asset. Slaf has a multitude of skills and was a consensus top pick and was even the #1 choice from the scouts Bob McKenzie talked too.

Scouting has evolved in the 19 years since then.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I didn't see much push back against those multiple "one person"s. It became the under-girding of Slaf talk -- that he had the tools, and the toolbox, and the drive, and the size, and the and the and the. Any time any one would question his skating, four people would jump in and say he's an incredible skater. Same with shooting, passing, etc. I remember this vividly because it was surprising to me how someone with all these aspects (that are seemingly beyond reproach) could not produce against Liiga opposition.

Comparisons to other players is a double-edged sword. And despite your denial, it does set the expectations at some level -- if not productivity, then at least in playing style as you say. When's the last time you saw Rantanen, Jagr, or Hossa cut through the middle and ask to get their heads blown off? Rookie camp or not, no smart player does that move twice. We'll see in Training Camp.

Of course he needs to develop and mature, but once again the implication was strong: he proved himself against Men and Pro Hockey Players at the Olys and WCs, he is NHL ready, he has the "highest floor", etc. What does "highest floor" mean to you? To me it means he is already at a high level, let's say wouldn't look lost in a top9 of a NHL team. Would you agree?

I'm tired of people citing McDavid as a way to put Slafkovsky down. No one expects McDavid, in fact I don't think even Slafkovsky's biggest fans would expect McDavid - why do you constantly bring up McDavid? Do you think that makes you look reasonable?

The user you're referring to (with whom I disagree slightly) says that Slaf hasn't shown a wow-factor that other high-end prospects have shown. That's a completely different thing than what you're responding to (which is something that person hasn't even said).

As for MacKinnon -- if Slaf hits 60+ pts in his rookie season, you won't hear much grumbling from anyone. Once again, not a fair comparison... it's unlikely he'll come close to MacKinnon, so why even bring him up?

1. You didn't see much push back? Dude, @Goldenhands got absolutely rocked here for it. He himself can come in and verify that he was basically fighting against the tide. Him and I had multiple arguments of Slafkovsky vs. Cooley and Wright. I think he was too effusive in his praise in Slafkovsky and a bit blinded in some of the things that he needed to improve, just like the pro-Wright crowd was. This looks like a case of you only seeing what you want to see.

The other thing that I think you're conflating here is that you were constantly making up shit like oh he's worse Josh Anderson, oh he's Joel Armia. Oh he can't skate. Oh he can't shoot.. and when people told you that actually he's a pretty powerful skater and he's actually a pretty good shooter, that you took that as if people were saying he was elite in every category which simply isn't the case. The NHL and AHL is littered with guys who are good skaters, good shooters, good passers, etc. and don't make a career out of it. You can be good at a lot of things and not be effective until you learn to apply your craft in the NHL and some people don't. That's why Slafkovsky is a project because he has a lot of skills in a unique package but there are elements @Estimated_Prophet went through it in an excellent previous post that he needs to improve to not only be an effective NHLer but see the success that is being teased by his potential.

2. I saw it a lot from Rantanen in his first year in North America. Do you remember Jagr's first few years, or Marian Hossa's? The answer is probably not because they were a long time ago and I was not a particularly astute hockey talent evaluator at 8 years old when Hossa had his first NHL season. This also seems like a pretty stupid thing to be fixated on.. Slaf tried a rush into the defense twice in one rookie game, he's DOOMED.

3. If you spend 4 months bashing the prospect we took 1st overall, I'm sure you will come across a bunch of different opinions related to Slafkovsky. I don't agree that he had the highest floor or that he's particularly NHL ready until we see him play against NHLers in training camp. I'm sorry you can't reconcile a bunch of differing opinions during your crusade against Slafkovsky.

4. We are also tired of you bringing up Joel Armia and Josh Anderson against Slafkovsky. All the point is that people are just selecting high end previous 1st overalls to point to, to say well Slaf isn't looking like them so he sucks. We've known since December 2021 there wasn't a clear cut #1 above their peers like those classes. At this point if you can't separate the fact that not all 1st overalls are created equal from your own expectations you are placing on that pick, that's on you. All Slafkovsky can do is be better than his peers and so far, it's looking good. Cooley looked good not great in the WJC. Wright hasn't done anything since he was drafted. Nemec looked worse than Slafkovsky in the rookie tournament.

5. I would argue that Slafkovsky has showed wow factors in more important things like WJC, WC, Hlinka, Olympics and the Liiga Play-offs to not worry that he didn't show a wow factor in two rookie tournament games. Recency bias at its finest. I'd also argue that the assist in his first game had some wow factor. He blew by two defenseman from miles away, beat them clean with his physicality and gifted Mesar a goal. Imagine him doing that for Caufield?

6. I'm bringing it up to say that development isn't linear. You can use Jack Hughes if you want. The point is that it doesn't matter what Slaf does now, it doesn't matter what he does in the end of his ELC. What matters is, when he hits his prime as a player, has he made a case of being an impact player for the Habs and reached the potential set for him? Being the better player right away doesn't mean anything. Hischier was better than Makar in year 1. There's so much runway left that fretting about two rookie tournament games in which he was actually pretty good is just asinine.

 

[BLONG7]

Patience.........................is a virtue guys.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Patience.........................is a virtue guys.

Patience is a virtue that is in short supply on this forum.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[Sterling Archer]

Hugh Jessiman - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Hugh Jessiman, 1984-03-28 New York, NY, USA USA. Most recently in the undefined with Vienna Capitals. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

The size argument is the weakest one, tbh. His tournament performance is his best aspect.

I mean you can throw out any drafted player over 6'5" who sucked and use that as an arguement for not picking size, just like you can do the same for "skilled" players under 5'9" who also busted and make the same arguement.

Last I checked, Jessiman wasn't picked 1st OA, it was a VERY different game in 2003, and had nowhere near the skillset of Slafkovsky. So disingenuous to say the least.

 

[Kennerback]

Hugh Jessiman - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Hugh Jessiman, 1984-03-28 New York, NY, USA USA. Most recently in the undefined with Vienna Capitals. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

The size argument is the weakest one, tbh. His tournament performance is his best aspect.

The size and strenght

I didn't see much push back against those multiple "one person"s. It became the under-girding of Slaf talk -- that he had the tools, and the toolbox, and the drive, and the size, and the and the and the. Any time any one would question his skating, four people would jump in and say he's an incredible skater. Same with shooting, passing, etc. I remember this vividly because it was surprising to me how someone with all these aspects (that are seemingly beyond reproach) could not produce against Liiga opposition.

Comparisons to other players is a double-edged sword. And despite your denial, it does set the expectations at some level -- if not productivity, then at least in playing style as you say. When's the last time you saw Rantanen, Jagr, or Hossa cut through the middle and ask to get their heads blown off? Rookie camp or not, no smart player does that move twice. We'll see in Training Camp.

Of course he needs to develop and mature, but once again the implication was strong: he proved himself against Men and Pro Hockey Players at the Olys and WCs, he is NHL ready, he has the "highest floor", etc. What does "highest floor" mean to you? To me it means he is already at a high level, let's say wouldn't look lost in a top9 of a NHL team. Would you agree?

I'm tired of people citing McDavid as a way to put Slafkovsky down. No one expects McDavid, in fact I don't think even Slafkovsky's biggest fans would expect McDavid - why do you constantly bring up McDavid? Do you think that makes you look reasonable?

The user you're referring to (with whom I disagree slightly) says that Slaf hasn't shown a wow-factor that other high-end prospects have shown. That's a completely different thing than what you're responding to (which is something that person hasn't even said).

As for MacKinnon -- if Slaf hits 60+ pts in his rookie season, you won't hear much grumbling from anyone. Once again, not a fair comparison... it's unlikely he'll come close to MacKinnon, so why even bring him up?

He’ll be a Top-6. Not even going on a limb: he’ll make the team and be a Top-6 out of camp. Not because it’s better for his development, not because they want to grow him into a Top-6 role... He’ll be a Top-6 out of camp because he’s already much better than the guys he’s fighting for a spot.

Forget L or R, the wing depth chart is this:
1- Caufield
2- Anderson
3- Either Dach or Monahan if moved to the wing.
4- Slafkovsky

5,6,7...- already worse than Slafkovsky (even considering defensive assignments and adjustments to the speed of the NHL).

Do you know many 18 year olds that “win”, not “are given” a Top-6 role? Me neither.

To the Slaf detractors, have the courage to say I’m wrong, we’ll know very soon who has egg in the face.

 

[Sterling Archer]

The size and strenght

He’ll be a Top-6. Not even going on a limb: he’ll make the team and be a Top-6 out of camp. Not because it’s better for his development, not because they want to grow him into a Top-6 role... He’ll be a Top-6 out of camp because he’s already much better than the guys he’s fighting for a spot.

Forget L or R, the wing depth chart is this:
1- Caufield
2- Anderson
3- Either Dach or Monahan if moved to the wing.
4- Slafkovsky

5,6,7...- already worse than Slafkovsky (even considering defensive assignments and adjustments to the speed of the NHL).

Do you know many 18 year olds that “win”, not “are given” a Top-6 role? Me neither.

To the Slaf detractors, have the courage to say I’m wrong, we’ll know very soon who has egg in the face.

Not so sure about that. He'll have to outplay Caufield, Anderson, Drouin, Hoffman, Gallagher, Dach/Monahan. Habs have an over supply of wingers and Slaf may or may not start or stay on the Habs.

I think camp will determine that and even if he makes the team, he needs to maintain the high level of play or go to Laval. I don't think it's that cut and dry as you make it seem.

 

[Kennerback]

Not so sure about that. He'll have to outplay Caufield, Anderson, Drouin, Hoffman, Gallagher, Dach/Monahan. Habs have an over supply of wingers and Slaf may or may not start or stay on the Habs.

I think camp will determine that and even if he makes the team, he needs to maintain the high level of play or go to Laval. I don't think it's that cut and dry as you make it seem.

I’ve seen enough to know he’s already better than Drouin, Hoffman, Gallagher. He’ll be better than them now, in 3 months and in 6 months.

 

[SlafySZN]

I’ve seen enough to know he’s already better than Drouin, Hoffman, Gallagher. He’ll be better than them now, in 3 months and in 6 months.

Yeah. He doesn’t need to be better than Caufield either, they’ll likely play together sometime this year.

 

[Kennerback]

Yeah. He doesn’t need to be better than Caufield either, they’ll likely play together sometime this year.

I’m sure Caufield is in a league of his own, and Anderson, Dach/Monahan can provide offense, are used to the speed of the NHL, know all their defensive assignments, they’re a sure bet.