WJC: 2021 Switzerland roster talk

[Speyer]

Canonica definitely has some skill but he is very much overwhelmed with the speed and intensity of this level of play, and thats only gonna get worse playing the other teams. The same could be said about Biasca who is not even a natural centeral and belongs on the wing. Those two might turn into decent or good players at this level but most likely not this year. Fischer (he seems to be in charge for some reason anyway) should shake up the lines accordingly and let the players who seem to be comfortable at this level play together. Especially Knak has been held back by his linemates so far. On D I liked Pezzullo, Chanton and Meier the most so far but none of them is on the level of last years top 4, so I think its reasonable to distirbute ice time evenly here. I do think Hinterland is partially right regarding Baragano who is an offensive D and should mostly play against weaker offensive lines and on the PP.

 

[Hinterland]

Canonica definitely has some skill but he is very much overwhelmed with the speed and intensity of this level of play, and thats only gonna get worse playing the other teams. The same could be said about Biasca who is not even a natural centeral and belongs on the wing. Those two might turn into decent or good players at this level but most likely not this year. Fischer (he seems to be in charge for some reason anyway) should shake up the lines accordingly and let the players who seem to be comfortable at this level play together. Especially Knak has been held back by his linemates so far. On D I liked Pezzullo, Chanton and Meier the most so far but none of them is on the level of last years top 4, so I think its reasonable to distirbute ice time evenly here. I do think Hinterland is partially right regarding Baragano who is an offensive D and should mostly play against weaker offensive lines and on the PP.

Exactly. Fischer and co. probably played Baragano this much because he was the only righty defender in the lineup. They dug that hole themselves though by cutting Landolt and scratching Villa. Two absolute idiot moves. Villa has to be in the lineup for Delémont so Baragano can take Delémont's spot. Then lean on Pezzullo, Meier, Guggenheim and maybe Chanton, Fiedler or Villa to log the big minutes on defense as well as on Salzgeber (once healthy), Schläpfer, Marchand, Knak, Hofer and Jobin for the big minutes on offense. Force your top4 and top6 in tight games.

What upsets me the most is that they actually reduced the minutes of Schläpfer, Marchand, Hofer and Guggenheim for the 3rd period. Also, Jobin didn't even get to 9mins in total. I get that he's no top prospect but he was one of the best forwards last year already and one of few players returning. Classic Fischer coaching

 

[jonas2244]

Regarding Jobin, afaik he just returned from injury. Maybe reduced minutes could come from him being noch on 100% (yet).

 

[Hinterland]

So we all know now why Paterlini isn't with the U20 anymore...probably wasn't interested in playing dummy for the clowns.

Paterlini wasn't perfect either...but man. What we're seeing now is a mess. Can't fault the players, they're playing up to their abilities. But coaching is horrible. Feeling really sorry for the players, particularly Fatton. The clowns wasted to very good perfomances of his. Especially the PP is one heck of a gong show. Thankfully, we didn't have too many of those vs. Slovakia

 

[Speyer]

Hard to make a accurate assessement of this tournament. From the coaching side there were definitely made some mistakes. First of all announcing a medal as a goal was pretty dumb and shows a lot of ignorance of where this team stands on the international level. Its pretty much the opposite of what Wohlwend did wich was suboptimal as well. The goal should have been quarterfinals as usual. As far as the actual coaching goes I didn't like that Fischer and Albelin sort of hijacked the team at all. It was very unclear who was in charge and who made the decisions wich might have been confusing to the players as well. Next year there should be a new Headcoach in charge of team that can impose his vision on it. I don't want that to be Bayer though. His statement that the team needed four games to get up to international speed was a pathetic attempt to sugarcoat the performance of this team. Forcing Canonica to be the first line center was not a good decision and some of the older players should have seen more ice time as Hinterland pointed out correctly (even though to a bit of an annoying degree) all tournament. I also didn't like that Bayer let Fischer take charge during the key moments of the games the way he did, wich made him look like an assistant at best. The PP was also not working good, trying to force plays, that the players weren't up to on a skill level instead of keeping it simple. However I don't think that even with better coaching that the team would have fared much better honestly. Outside two or three players there was a concerning lack of skill, especially in the passing, puck control and shooting department.

While the argument that the 2001/2002 birthyears are weaker than average is true, I find it very concerning that we havent produced even a mid round draftpick since Kurashev. A lot of once promising players (Eggenberger, Gross, Nussbaumer, Delemont, Rochette, Canonica) have shown stagnation in their draftyears wich cannot explained solely by the fact that they were overrated in the first place. There are a lot of problems in with the state of swiss hockey, on a junior and pro level. I hope that this performance will dismantle at least the narrative that our junior program is doing fine and some reforms will be implemented soon. With the way the power dynamic of the NLA clubs and the federation presents itself I very much doubt that will be the case though.

As for next year I expect a slightly better team if goaltending (this is always a matter of luck) pans out. However I still think playing relegation will be more likely than reaching the quarter finals.

 

[jonas2244]

I agree on most of it. There is no way that coaching-staff can return after that medal-comment (I critizized that before the tournament) and a 0-4 record and this strange handling of some of the players. But they are also not to blame for the skill-level and the player-quality and this is my main concern.

The (rare) positive from this tournament:
Fatton had two great games. Vs Germany he was ok. With Patenaude and Henauer I'm convinced we'll have good goaltending next year.

Pezzullo is a solid defender. He never will be a #1 (and we expected him to be that) but he can have a solid NLA-career with his presence and the skill-set he has.

Chanton was probably our second best defender. I liked what he had to offer, he played smart and clever and rarley made a mistake.

Knak fought hard but unlucky. His linemates for most of the games didn't help much. The skill-set is there and I'm convinced we'll see him with the national-team some day.

Canonica and Biasca were not ready, but you could see that there is some potential there. I hope the QMJHL starts sometime, they can join their team and make some progress there. Both can return twice and the experience made here may be important next year.

 

[Speyer]

Canonica and Biasca were not ready, but you could see that there is some potential there. I hope the QMJHL starts sometime, they can join their team and make some progress there. Both can return twice and the experience made here may be important next year.

I agree with this. Most teams dont have 17 year old players on their team unless they are locks to be drafted in the first round. Most of the players in this tournament are 18 or 19 so with a bit of good developement the underagers can play a much better role next year like for example Nussbaumer proofed last year. However I am still a bit disapointed in Canonica and Meier play because they were advertised to be legit prospects that can handle this level of play already wich was only true partially in Meiers case.

 

[Hinterland]

I agree on most of it. There is no way that coaching-staff can return after that medal-comment (I critizized that before the tournament) and a 0-4 record and this strange handling of some of the players. But they are also not to blame for the skill-level and the player-quality and this is my main concern.

The (rare) positive from this tournament:
Fatton had two great games. Vs Germany he was ok. With Patenaude and Henauer I'm convinced we'll have good goaltending next year.

Pezzullo is a solid defender. He never will be a #1 (and we expected him to be that) but he can have a solid NLA-career with his presence and the skill-set he has.

Chanton was probably our second best defender. I liked what he had to offer, he played smart and clever and rarley made a mistake.

Knak fought hard but unlucky. His linemates for most of the games didn't help much. The skill-set is there and I'm convinced we'll see him with the national-team some day.

Canonica and Biasca were not ready, but you could see that there is some potential there. I hope the QMJHL starts sometime, they can join their team and make some progress there. Both can return twice and the experience made here may be important next year.

You wanna bet that they can? Sadly, the clowns will probably claim that it was all Bayer's fault, that it was him behind all of those curious decisions. They'll then find a new dummy for next year and there we go again

Pezzullo was by far the best defender on this team, both offensively and defensively. Yet still, he didn't play nearly enough. In the 4-5 game vs Germany he played less than 17mins, Guggenheim less than 9mins. These are outrageous numbers. Every random pick up from the street could have done better. I liked Chanton but I don't think there was much between him, Guggenheim, Fiedler and Meier. They were all good. If they wouldn't have cut Landolt and played Villa in more than just one game, we'd have had a pretty solid top6 on defense.

Knak was outstanding vs Slovakia and pretty good vs Germany. Between those two games he wasn't very good but the way he was used, he wasn't exactly in the position to play up to his potential. The same can be said about pretty much every forward on the roster.

Biasca was actually pretty good, given the circumstances. Canonica was horrible in almost every single shift. Turnovermachine. Having said that, he's not the one to blame. It's all coaching. Canonica, at this point, is nowhere near Salzgeber's or Schläpfer's level. Allenspach is much better, too. The idea, to give Canonica heavy minutes and make him go up against the opponents top lines whenever possible was completely crazy. I would have been okay with trying it but they stuck with it all tournament long even though it clearly wasn't working for one minute. Horrid coaching. I don't know what else to say. It was a tragedy and exactly how you ruin a player's tournament and confidence.

Let's look at the average ice times:


1D Pezzullo: 17:04
2-5D Meier: 16:49
2-5D Chanton: 15:00
2-5D Fiedler: 14:09
2-5D Guggenheim: 12:24
6D Vouardoux: 11:09
7D Baragano: 19:09
8D Delémont: 09:55

This is awful. I'd have played Pezzullo an average of at least 20mins, Meier, Chanton, Fiedler, Guggenheim and Landolt at least 15mins each and split the rest between Villa and Vouardoux. In tight games, add 5mins to Pezzullo's total and whoever else of the top6 is going and bench the bottom pairing.


1C Salzgeber: 15:05
2C Schläpfer: 18:47
3C Allenspach: 16:20
4C Canonica: 16:26

This is horrible, too. I guess Salzgeber just getting 15:05 could be explained with him just returning from injury and Schläpfer's 18:47 seem adequate, too. But he played the wrong 18:47. They split up his line with Hofer and Marchand that was really going in game 1 and he didn't get the toughest matchups (as he should have, instead of Canonica) or nearly enough PP-time to make a difference there. Also, Schläpfer should have played even more if Salzgeber really was unable to play more. The same goes for Allenspach while Canonica played far too much. In fact, when Salzgeber returned, I'd have considered scratching him and using Biasca as 4C. Certainly, he shouldn't have played more than reduced and sheltered 10mins this year. I don't think this was a particularly positive experience for him.

1F Knak: 21:44
2F Jobin: 09:43
3F Marchand: 12:36
4F Hofer: 10:52
5-6F Fust: 17:07
5-6F Bottini: 12:15
7-9F Biasca: 13:35
7-9F Dähler: 12:25
7-9F Derungs: 09:45

At least as horrible as the rest. Knak's ice time was obviously fine, just had the wrong linemates. However, there's no excuse to hardly play Jobin, Marchand and Hofer. There's no way Fust is better than those three. Not a chance. I know he had that one nice pass on the PP but he honestly had zero business out there. PP should have been the top 6 forwards, so we're talking 1-4F only. Maybe with all three top Centers healthy, replace Hofer with Allenspach or go with just one D to give Biasca/Canonica a look. In terms of ice time, Jobin should have played 10mins more, Marchand and Hofer at least 5mins more per game. Both Fust and Dähler played way too much for the plugs they are.

Now, even if you don't completely agree with my depth chart and the assessment of the players, I think everybody will admit that the clowns were far off in the way they used the players.

I fully agree that the talent level of this team is rather low. Against Slovakia, it's possible that they could have tried whatever and still wouldn't have won because Latkoczy was just hot and was always gonna stop everything he saw. The Slovakia game was also the best, coaching wise. Overall a pretty good performance. I don't think Finnland was unbeatable. They were pretty meh. On a good day, with good coaching, we could have won points. We certainly should have been a lot more competitive in that one. And given how poor the Germans were, with just one line and questionable defense and goaltending, we really should have won that one. But the ice time were even worse than the tournament average in that one. In a 4-5 game, this, and using Canonica against Stützle, surely was the reason why we lost.

Pretty sad story overall. Hope you're right and the clowns get fired. I'm sceptical though. I believe it when I see it

 

[jonas2244]

Yeah, I'm sceptical, too.

I agree on most what you say, my main point is that we shouldn't talk too much about that but more on how bad our junior hockey has gotten in the last few years. That is the point we should be looking at. Coaching, well, yeah, could be better. But if we have better players it doesn't matter that much.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I agree on most what you say, my main point is that we shouldn't talk too much about that but more on how bad our junior hockey has gotten in the last few years. That is the point we should be looking at. Coaching, well, yeah, could be better. But if we have better players it doesn't matter that much.

That is actually a very good comment. I don't know if that's a systemic flaw or just a one-off but really even the best coach out there could only do so much with a squad like this. At the end of the day, Switzerland lost 2 1-goal games against teams that possessed superior talent.

 

[Hinterland]

That is actually a very good comment. I don't know if that's a systemic flaw or just a one-off but really even the best coach out there could only do so much with a squad like this. At the end of the day, Switzerland lost 2 1-goal games against teams that possessed superior talent.

The problem is...coaching wasn't just a little bit off. They did almost everything wrong. Also, it's not just about winning...those tournaments are also an opportunity to develop players, to give them a chance to shine. Simon Knak really should have been drafted by now and with a good tournament I'm sure he would have had a good chance. Now that he wasn't really scoring, it's gonna be difficult. Why didn't he score? Because he was stapled to the worst players on the team. Canonica is another example. Wouldn't have made the team if he had somebody better. We didn't, so I get why he's on the team. But why would you force him to play big minutes he's not ready for let alone the toughest minutes possible vs opponents top lines? Is this the way to develop your prospects? I strongly disagree with this. Give those younger guys sheltered minutes vs weaker competition, maybe PP-time. How many other 2003 born players played the kind of minutes Canonica did? I don't think there are any, let alone players as green or raw as Canonica. There's just no excuse for that.

Both one goal games we could have won with better coaching. Finnland wasn't unbeatable either. Coaching let us down. With better coaching, we definitely would have qualified for the quarters. Germany has just one line. No defense, no goaltending. Over the entire team, ours was far more gifted. With last change, we should never lose that hockey game.

There's no issue. We're a small hockey nation. Can't have top talent every year.

 

[jonas2244]

No, we can't have top talent every year. But this year it's almost no talent. Don't see many players who could turn into an mens national team player. And that's a problem.

 

[kabidjan18]

No, we can't have top talent every year. But this year it's almost no talent. Don't see many players who could turn into an mens national team player. And that's a problem.

I think this is basically the point. The WJC team is a feeder team to the Senior Men's team. That's the team that matters. The WJC is just a snapshot of what's to come for the Senior Men's team. You can try really hard to manipulate the snapshot, like oh what if we did XYZ with certain coaching decisions and eked out and extra point or two in the WJC, like who cares? If you finish 9th but with 1 point in the tournament because you forced overtime in a game, or something like that. Does that really matter if you produced no prospects. I don't think so, at all.

Germany won the Switzerland/Germany match when they simply dressed Stutzle and Peterka. They even won more considering they didn't dress Seider, Reichel. Like, I think Noah Meier looks pretty good. But if Meier is pretty good, and those 4 are anywhere near as good as the hype that precedes them suggests, then Germany already won that competition before the tournament started. And if somehow, due to some brilliant coaching maneuvers, Switzerland was able to tie or even win the game, it'd only be masking the inevitable slump that would represent itself later at the senior men's level, the level that matters more.

 

[jonas2244]

Noah Meier has a mediocre skill-set. Passing, skating, stick-handling is just not (yet) good enough to be considered somewhere near elite talent. In my opinion of course. If I compare it to Berni or Gross two years ago, he's nowhere near that level.

Something to consider is that Swiss players normally take a little bit more time to develop. There are many examples for that, players that went undrafted like Kukan or Suter or Haas.
I'm not worried about the comparison with Germany or Slovakia. These nations have the same problems, too. Stronger years and weaker years. Germany has currently a few top-shots. But this will change again. What worries me is that with the late 90-born (95-00) it looked like the difference to the top-nations is smaller than ever before. We could (mostly) compete with these nations even on U20 level. We beat Sweden in the quarters and were very close on beating the USA. But this year the gap is immense.

 

[Hinterland]

I think this is basically the point. The WJC team is a feeder team to the Senior Men's team. That's the team that matters. The WJC is just a snapshot of what's to come for the Senior Men's team. You can try really hard to manipulate the snapshot, like oh what if we did XYZ with certain coaching decisions and eked out and extra point or two in the WJC, like who cares? If you finish 9th but with 1 point in the tournament because you forced overtime in a game, or something like that. Does that really matter if you produced no prospects. I don't think so, at all.

Germany won the Switzerland/Germany match when they simply dressed Stutzle and Peterka. They even won more considering they didn't dress Seider, Reichel. Like, I think Noah Meier looks pretty good. But if Meier is pretty good, and those 4 are anywhere near as good as the hype that precedes them suggests, then Germany already won that competition before the tournament started. And if somehow, due to some brilliant coaching maneuvers, Switzerland was able to tie or even win the game, it'd only be masking the inevitable slump that would represent itself later at the senior men's level, the level that matters more.

No. We were always gonna have the better team. We had the better team at that game and some of our best players were also at home because of covid or because they didn't get selected. Reichel and Seider wouldn't have made a difference. We should have won the game and we should have won it vs those two, too. Our coaching was just far off. Period.

Weaker years happen. We have had many good ones and many good young players right now. We do need better coaches though...at all levels. Not many good coaches with Swiss passports and that's a problem, not just for this team but the entire development system and our leagues.

That's why it's so frustrating that they didn't keep Paterlini, who's one of the few good, young coaches. It's a shame.

 

[Hinterland]

No, we can't have top talent every year. But this year it's almost no talent. Don't see many players who could turn into an mens national team player. And that's a problem.

Talent level is rather low. Doesn't mean that they can't turn into national team players though. And even if they don't, it won't be a problem. We've had better years in the past and there'll be better ones in the future. But I like the chances of guys Pezzullo, Knak, Jobin, Schläpfer or Marchand because they're smart and excellent role players. With goalies you also never know. Fatton was really good in this tournament. Biasca is a huge talent. Not everything is bad so I don't really see a problem. But again...coaching is a problem in Switzerland...not just for this team.

 

[kabidjan18]

No. We were always gonna have the better team. We had the better team at that game and some of our best players were also at home because of covid or because they didn't get selected. Reichel and Seider wouldn't have made a difference. We should have won the game and we should have won it vs those two, too. Our coaching was just far off. Period.

I'm sorry, which round were they taken in?

You're still missing the point. Who cares about who, theoretically, had the "better team." You said you do, but your team lost, but why does it even matter. Even in a good year, 3/4ths of the team will never play for Switzerland in an IIHF sanctioned competition. So why does it matter if the team is "good" or not, the team doesn't matter, the vast majority of the team is irrelevant, the depth of the team is irrelevant. All these "should haves" is already off-putting, but all about a tournament that ultimately is just a feeder for another tournament...

Weaker years happen. We have had many good ones and many good young players right now. We do need better coaches though...at all levels. Not many good coaches with Swiss passports and that's a problem, not just for this team but the entire development system and our leagues.

That's why it's so frustrating that they didn't keep Paterlini, who's one of the few good, young coaches. It's a shame.

You seem conflicted between two stances. Is Swiss hockey doing fine and just going through some weak years or is Swiss hockey being hampered by perpetually weak coaching? If it's just a few down years, you don't care about the WJC result, or even the draft result, the players are weak this time around but they will be better next year. If it's the coaching, then that suggests something systemic, something perpetual. Something that wouldn't be solved by waiting it out.

 

[Hinterland]

I'm sorry, which round were they taken in?

You're still missing the point. Who cares about who, theoretically, had the "better team." You said you do, but your team lost, but why does it even matter. Even in a good year, 3/4ths of the team will never play for Switzerland in an IIHF sanctioned competition. So why does it matter if the team is "good" or not, the team doesn't matter, the vast majority of the team is irrelevant, the depth of the team is irrelevant. All these "should haves" is already off-putting, but all about a tournament that ultimately is just a feeder for another tournament...


You seem conflicted between two stances. Is Swiss hockey doing fine and just going through some weak years or is Swiss hockey being hampered by perpetually weak coaching? If it's just a few down years, you don't care about the WJC result, or even the draft result, the players are weak this time around but they will be better next year. If it's the coaching, then that suggests something systemic, something perpetual. Something that wouldn't be solved by waiting it out.

No. You're missing the point. We lost because of coaching, not because our team wasn't good enough. If you compare the teams depth chart with the actual lines and ice times, it becomes pretty clear.

Coaching has always been the problem. And we still brought out many top players, even to the NHL. Of course, we could do much better with better coaching though. Which is also why so many foreigners are coaching in Switzerland.

It's fair to say though that at this tournament, coaching was even worse than normal. Every random pickup from the street could have done better. It was outrageously bad.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think you guys should avoid relegation next year. I think Austria will clearly be worse. And unless their goalie levels up and is able to rob you guys of those wins, they look like the big relegation favorites.

Germany is also going to be right there with Switzerland. I’d give them a slight edge because of players like Peterka and Reichel, but I don’t think it’s unrealistic that Switzerland is better.

 

[Hammahtime]

How would you rank the top 3 NHL draft prospects on this Switzerland team (if any) and a rough prediction in what range they may be drafted?
I looked at the NHL central scouting watch list but wanted to pick everyone’s brain on some of these guys!

 

[Speyer]

How would you rank the top 3 NHL draft prospects on this Switzerland team (if any) and a rough prediction in what range they may be drafted?
I looked at the NHL central scouting watch list but wanted to pick everyone’s brain on some of these guys!

Noah Meier, Simon Knak (as an overager) and either Canonica or Biasca. All probably late round picks even though Meier could be still a mid round pick if he manages to get NL time for the rest of the season or ups his production siginifantly in the SL. Canonica and Biasca have to be decent in the Q though, if they dont get acclimated quickly and show something they could not get drafted at all. You could also make a case for Fatton but he would probably need an inch or two in size to get drafted as an overager.

 

[Speyer]

Regarding Bayer. I have just seen his "analysis" of the tournament on mysports. He claimed that setting the goal to a medal was meant in a multi year window. Unless he was terribly misquoted by the media before the tournament, it seams pretty clear that that is a rather pathetic attempt to downplay his mistake. He also claimed that the team was getting better all tournament wich wasnt true as they played their best game against the Slovaks. A lot of downplaying and passing the blame in the Interview. Yes the talent level was low put at least the PP should have worked much better than it did and the ice time distribution was still questionable. If this dude gets another shot next year when we could get relegated then the federation is in a worse situation than I thought. Hell I would rahter give Arno Del Curto another crack at the next WJC and I am not exactly his biggest fan as a coach. At least the TSN interviews would be legendary for sure .

 

[jonas2244]

Hehe, I saw the video and was thinking about watching it but thougth it would be rather masochistic. Thanks for watching it for me.

I agree, there has to be a new coach.