2021 Off Season Discussion Thread

[Xerloris]

Sanford is purely a LW and Bozak is a C who has occasionally slid over to RW. Neither has ever demonstrated any ability to play the position the other one plays and they are different handedness. They were never competing for the same jobs and there isn't a choice between one or the other.
.

Yes this is true but Sanford also makes money and I would prefer that money not go to Sanford and instead go to Bozak, all other reasons ignored.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Yes this is true but Sanford also makes money and I would prefer that money not go to Sanford and instead go to Bozak, all other reasons ignored.

It’s amazing how much hate Sanford generates. The guy is like our 10th forward.

 

[Ranksu]

It’s amazing how much hate Sanford generates. The guy is like our 10th forward.

But he is treat like top6 forward by Chief.

 

[Xerloris]

It’s amazing how much hate Sanford generates. The guy is like our 10th forward.

Yet he's always gifted top line minutes with ROR and Perron. I wonder if there might be a correlation with that and why he's hated

 

[BlueDream]

Yet he's always gifted top line minutes with ROR and Perron. I wonder if there might be a correlation with that and why he's hated

In reality though he’s just there as a placeholder to balance the lines since ROR and Perron can basically dominate regardless of who else is on their line. Sanford still averages 3rd line minutes in terms of ice time so it’s not as big of a deal as people act like.

 

[Celtic Note]

I am not a fan of Sanford because I find him so frustrating, but his return on investment is good. His contract is only $2M. The guy averages 25-30 points per 82 games (guesstimated). If you go by the $1M per 10 points metric, that isn’t bad.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Yet he's always gifted top line minutes with ROR and Perron. I wonder if there might be a correlation with that and why he's hated

He was 9th in ice time among forwards last year.

 

[BlueDream]

I am not a fan of Sanford because I find him so frustrating, but his return on investment is good. His contract is only $2M. The guy averages 25-30 points per 82 games (guesstimated). If you go by the $1M per 10 points metric, that isn’t bad.

Yep pretty much. He’s a good depth piece, I wouldn’t dump him for nothing in return. He can play up and down the lineup if needed, is big, and can PK and is willing to stand in front of the net. He has his faults but he also provides some nice qualities.

He also seems coachable and like a good locker room guy.

I’m glad they moved Blais over him. Blais can’t ever stay healthy enough to even be in a lineup consistently. Sanford on the other hand has been very durable.

 

[Reality Czech]

Yet he's always gifted top line minutes with ROR and Perron. I wonder if there might be a correlation with that and why he's hated

Maybe the reason he's been "gifted" minutes on that line is because coaches and teammates trust him? Regardless, I don't see that as a reason to hate the guy. From my perspective, fans hate him for not being the exact player they want him to be. But as Celtic Note pointed out, getting roughly 15 goals and 25 points per year and a guy who can play PK and PP2 isn't a bad deal at $2 million. The coaches use him in key defensive situations and he led all Blues forwards in blocked shots, so that's gotta be worth something.

But unfortunately once many fans decide they don't like a guy, it seems there is very little to change their opinion. See: Justin Faulk, Torey Krug

 

[Brian39]

But he is treat like top6 forward by Chief.

Yet he's always gifted top line minutes with ROR and Perron. I wonder if there might be a correlation with that and why he's hated

He hasn't been treated like a top 6 guy and he's never been given top line minutes. Here is his usage ranks among Blues forwards over the last couple years:

Last year he was 10th in even strength TOI per game. 8th if you exclude the guys who played fewer than 10 games. He was 9th in overall TOI per game and 11th in PP TOI per game.

In 2019/20, he was 7th in even strength TOI per game (6th excluding Tarasenko's 10 games) and 10th in overall TOI per game (9th excluding Tarasenko). He was also 10th in PP TOI per game (8th excluding Tarasenko and Fabbri).

He plays 3-4 minutes a night less than ROR/Perron at even strength.

Berube often puts him on that line as the clear passenger because he has shown ability to help drive possession while the other two drive offensive play. He almost never leaves Sanford with those two for an entire game and is often sliding other wingers onto that line as situations dictate. He also pretty routinely moves Sanford to other lines for several game stretches. Ryan O'Reilly played 223 minutes with Sanford last year. He played 529 minutes away from Sanford. The top line played without Sanford way more than they played with Sanford as Berube tried about half the team in that LW spot last year.

Sanford played 223 minutes with ROR, 113 minutes with Bozak, 89 minutes with Sunny and 68 minutes with Thomas. He was on the 3rd line as (or more) frequently than he was on the top line.

I think that Sanford's usage has made him look better statistically than he actually is. I'm excited/hopeful that adding Saad/Buch to the lineup will solidify the top 6 and force Sanford consistently into the bottom 6. He is absolutely worth $2M in a vacuum and so far there is no indication that his cap hit will prevent the team from doing any of the things I think that they should. If it turns out that his contract actually hurts us, then I'll revisit my opinion, but until then he just isn't at all anything that concerns me.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Sanford's numbers have been boosted by being able to play a decent chunk with ROR and Perron, and then you can throw in some outlier games like that 4 goal game. If he was consistent in the defensive end and didn't make boneheaded plays that get him benched, he'd be just fine at the amount that he gets, but there's nothing he really does that he really excels at. He's a bit better version of Jaskin.

Put Sanford in Barbie's role, and he doesn't produce the same IMO.

 

[Ranksu]

He hasn't been treated like a top 6 guy and he's never been given top line minutes. Here is his usage ranks among Blues forwards over the last couple years:

Last year he was 10th in even strength TOI per game. 8th if you exclude the guys who played fewer than 10 games. He was 9th in overall TOI per game and 11th in PP TOI per game.

In 2019/20, he was 7th in even strength TOI per game (6th excluding Tarasenko's 10 games) and 10th in overall TOI per game (9th excluding Tarasenko). He was also 10th in PP TOI per game (8th excluding Tarasenko and Fabbri).

He plays 3-4 minutes a night less than ROR/Perron at even strength.

Berube often puts him on that line as the clear passenger because he has shown ability to help drive possession while the other two drive offensive play. He almost never leaves Sanford with those two for an entire game and is often sliding other wingers onto that line as situations dictate. He also pretty routinely moves Sanford to other lines for several game stretches. Ryan O'Reilly played 223 minutes with Sanford last year. He played 529 minutes away from Sanford. The top line played without Sanford way more than they played with Sanford as Berube tried about half the team in that LW spot last year.

Sanford played 223 minutes with ROR, 113 minutes with Bozak, 89 minutes with Sunny and 68 minutes with Thomas. He was on the 3rd line as (or more) frequently than he was on the top line.

I think that Sanford's usage has made him look better statistically than he actually is. I'm excited/hopeful that adding Saad/Buch to the lineup will solidify the top 6 and force Sanford consistently into the bottom 6. He is absolutely worth $2M in a vacuum and so far there is no indication that his cap hit will prevent the team from doing any of the things I think that they should. If it turns out that his contract actually hurts us, then I'll revisit my opinion, but until then he just isn't at all anything that concerns me.

His contract is just fine. We have other real anchor contracts which hurts our team in long run.

I just commented he just gets better usage what he shouldn't get.

I wonder what is his o-zone vs d-zone starts compare to other bottom 6 forwards.

 

[simon IC]

I have no issue with Sanford other than he is maddeningly inconsistent. He seems to go through stretches where his head just isn't in the game. It is frustrating, but he is still a useful forward who can play in a variety of situations. I don't understand the hate and the "trade him now for anything " posts that I see from time to time.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The problem with Sanford, we could find a vet that won't come with similar inconsistency issues for a similar price. Bozak for example, we can rely on him in any situation and he won't be prone to the same amount of brain farts, and he has the ability to play on any line and look decent. Or someone like Haula who signed in Boston. I'd rather have not qualified Sanford and filled his spot with guys like that.

 

[stlbluz]

Backes signs 1 day deal to retire as a Blue

 

[bleedblue1223]

Sucks that he wasn't apart of that Cup squad. He was a big part in creating the culture that led to it though.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Backes signs 1 day deal to retire as a Blue

I remember saying something about Backes and the Blues doing this during the last Ducks game against the Blues during the season and people wanted to call me out and say "Do you really think the Blues would do this". Well. Yes, yes I did.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Sucks that he wasn't apart of that Cup squad. He was a big part in creating the culture that led to it though.

We wouldn’t have won Cup if he stayed. Needed that money for contributors, Backes was clearly declining fast.

 

[bleedblue1223]

We wouldn’t have won Cup if he stayed. Needed that money for contributors, Backes was clearly declining fast.

Don't disagree, I just think it sucks that we couldn't have him in Steen in a role that Steen had. Obviously it wasn't a plausible situation and we made the right decision.

 

[Mike Liut]

Backes was one of my favorite Blues of all time. I was very against resigning him because I could see his play was declining. He wasn’t quite the physical force his last year here. It happens. But man, he was a great Blue. Loved his game.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

In 19-20, Sanford played roughly 2/3 of his 5v5 minutes with ROR.
In 20-21, he played roughly 1/3 of his 5v5 minutes with ROR.

Considering the laundry list of injuries this past season, along with Berube's penchant to want balanced lines, this past season was still a stark change in Sanford's usage.

 

[Brian39]

Small update on Bozak by Elliotte Friedman

"Finally, a couple clubs indicated they were expecting Tyler Bozak’s decision on where to play in the next few days. The 764-game veteran has a couple of options. Wonder if one is Pittsburgh, with both Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin injured to start the year."

No other details and no real info about what Bozak is thinking.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

Anyone else find it strange how little content we have right now? I remember in years past we would have all kinds of pictures of players in town training/skating in prep for camp. We'd even have reports on how guys looked.

I don't even know the DAY that players report to camp. People just keep saying "in a couple of weeks".

 

[Brian39]

Anyone else find it strange how little content we have right now? I remember in years past we would have all kinds of pictures of players in town training/skating in prep for camp. We'd even have reports on how guys looked.

I don't even know the DAY that players report to camp. People just keep saying "in a couple of weeks".

The Blues haven't revealed their health and safety policies for this season and I'd wager that camps will be closed to the public this year. The NHL just sent out the official memo about player/staff vaccination guidelines a week ago, so I'd wager that the Blues have a few different training camp plans/schedules contingent on their team COVID policies being finalized. It is strange that we have a preseason game in 2 weeks and don't even know when camp is starting, but the entire league seems to be oddly quiet about their camps.

I don't believe any of the informal skates have been open to the public yet.

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

The Blues haven't revealed their health and safety policies for this season and I'd wager that camps will be closed to the public this year. The NHL just sent out the official memo about player/staff vaccination guidelines a week ago, so I'd wager that the Blues have a few different training camp plans/schedules contingent on their team COVID policies being finalized. It is strange that we have a preseason game in 2 weeks and don't even know when camp is starting, but the entire league seems to be oddly quiet about their camps.

I don't believe any of the informal skates have been open to the public yet.

Yea totally understand not allowing the public to the practices. Just seems odd we don’t know the “weigh in” date that everyone reports or anything.