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2021 Blues Regular Season multi-purpose thread

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Blueston said:
Unless they raise the nets to 10' above the ice like a basketball rim, height in itself is fairly irrelevant to defensive ability. It may be a proxy for reach which could have value, or even strength, but it seems a rather imperfect one. Our D may not be good enough, but to focus on whether we are tall enough to win seems a rather odd choice.
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Back in the days of the "Chuck Norris" division, size mattered. Teams wanted big defensemen to wrestle forwards out of the crease. So some big, slow guys who turned like aircraft carriers came into the league.

I would think size matters on the boards, but remember Jaden Schwartz, who was very good at puck battles on the boards, and he was very small.
 
Renard said:
Back in the days of the "Chuck Norris" division, size mattered. Teams wanted big defensemen to wrestle forwards out of the crease. So some big, slow guys who turned like aircraft carriers came into the league.

I would think size matters on the boards, but remember Jaden Schwartz, who was very good at puck battles on the boards, and he was very small.
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But as you allude to, strength isn’t same as height. Can win puck battles without being 6’4”.
 
In the playoffs there is very little space. Flowing offenses are continually interrupted by good gap closure defense. Size and reach is a big part of that. The Dallas game where the sizes of the defenses was basically determinative should be Exhibit A in why I compared denying the value of reach in the postseason to tattooed self deception. Of course I didn’t say it was the most important or only important thing. But you cannot pretend it’s less important than skill and vision and positioning. It is equally important. We just saw why. Let’s remember. Let’s not have amnesia ten seconds from now like Leonard.
 
PocketNines said:
In the playoffs there is very little space. Flowing offenses are continually interrupted by good gap closure defense. Size and reach is a big part of that. The Dallas game where the sizes of the defenses was basically determinative should be Exhibit A in why I compared denying the value of reach in the postseason to tattooed self deception. Of course I didn’t say it was the most important or only important thing. But you cannot pretend it’s less important than skill and vision and positioning. It is equally important. We just saw why. Let’s remember. Let’s not have amnesia ten seconds from now like Leonard.
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Fair point, but we seemed unfocused and disinterested most of the game. Sloppy passing, no hitting. It was more us than Dallas I think.
 
Blueston said:
Fair point, but we seemed unfocused and disinterested most of the game. Sloppy passing, no hitting. It was more us than Dallas I think.
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That’s what fans of thwarted offenses always say. There’s rarely credit given to the defense. Bruins fans believe their offense failed more than our defense succeeded.
 
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Some stats I’m looking at tonight…

As a team, we have 130 giveaways and only 97 takeaways. We are dead last in the NHL in blocked shots per game. We are 28th in the NHL in hits per game.

It’s not even like we are such a good possession team to justify those numbers either.

We are scoring, converting on power plays and getting good goaltending. That’s why we’ve won games.

But, I think this kinda proves what everyone already knew: this team doesn’t battle. We are a soft, easy team to play against. We aren’t physical, we don’t win a lot of puck battles or sacrifice the body, we are careless with the puck and we have given up more high danger chances than we’ve gotten… concerning to see. The current roster and the way Berube wants to play, are not remotely fitting together. It’s last season all over again, and not much has changed.
 
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It could be systems or it could be the players he's been dealt, but numbers aren't trending in the right direction right now. We're on pace for the lowest number of hits since Berube has taken over, though last year was the most hits/60 and that didn't do a whole lot. We're on pace for the lowest blocked shots, but last year we nearly tied our highest blocked shots per 60 since Berube took over. This just could be to let Binnington/Husso to see the puck more easily or just players not trying to block shots. This is definitely an unintended consequence, but takeaways are down, giveaways are up; if this trend continues, we aren't going to be too happy with the Blues at the end of the season.

Edit: Just because the Blues aren't blocking shots, doesn't mean they can't be a good team. Carolina is 4th worst, Edmonton 3rd worst, we are dead last. Same with giveaways and takeaways. Carolina is giving up the puck almost 3 more times per game than they takeaway, while the Blues only give it up 2 more times. For perspective, Arizona takes away the puck more than they give it up, yet they are still awful. Point I'm making is that some stats need more context and reason for why they work/don't work for the team.
 
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ezcreepin said:
It could be systems or it could be the players he's been dealt, but numbers aren't trending in the right direction right now. We're on pace for the lowest number of hits since Berube has taken over, though last year was the most hits/60 and that didn't do a whole lot. We're on pace for the lowest blocked shots, but last year we nearly tied our highest blocked shots per 60 since Berube took over. This just could be to let Binnington/Husso to see the puck more easily or just players not trying to block shots. This is definitely an unintended consequence, but takeaways are down, giveaways are up; if this trend continues, we aren't going to be too happy with the Blues at the end of the season.

Edit: Just because the Blues aren't blocking shots, doesn't mean they can't be a good team. Carolina is 4th worst, Edmonton 3rd worst, we are dead last. Same with giveaways and takeaways. Carolina is giving up the puck almost 3 more times per game than they takeaway, while the Blues only give it up 2 more times. For perspective, Arizona takes away the puck more than they give it up, yet they are still awful. Point I'm making is that some stats need more context and reason for why they work/don't work for the team.
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Yeah I fully understand and agree the stats I posted are not the end-all be-all. They can be misleading for sure. I just wanted to get some discussion going since I thought it was interesting and does support what a lot of us are seeing with the team.
 
ezcreepin said:
It could be systems or it could be the players he's been dealt, but numbers aren't trending in the right direction right now. We're on pace for the lowest number of hits since Berube has taken over, though last year was the most hits/60 and that didn't do a whole lot. We're on pace for the lowest blocked shots, but last year we nearly tied our highest blocked shots per 60 since Berube took over. This just could be to let Binnington/Husso to see the puck more easily or just players not trying to block shots. This is definitely an unintended consequence, but takeaways are down, giveaways are up; if this trend continues, we aren't going to be too happy with the Blues at the end of the season.

Edit: Just because the Blues aren't blocking shots, doesn't mean they can't be a good team. Carolina is 4th worst, Edmonton 3rd worst, we are dead last. Same with giveaways and takeaways. Carolina is giving up the puck almost 3 more times per game than they takeaway, while the Blues only give it up 2 more times. For perspective, Arizona takes away the puck more than they give it up, yet they are still awful. Point I'm making is that some stats need more context and reason for why they work/don't work for the team.
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This is good point. Blocked shots mean you don’t have have the pack, so team like Carolina who is great at possession doesn’t have as many.
 
BlueDream said:
Yeah I fully understand and agree the stats I posted are not the end-all be-all. They can be misleading for sure. I just wanted to get some discussion going since I thought it was interesting and does support what a lot of us are seeing with the team.
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GA/TA stats to me always seemed unreliable.
 
BlueDream said:
Some stats I’m looking at tonight…

As a team, we have 130 giveaways and only 97 takeaways. We are dead last in the NHL in blocked shots per game. We are 28th in the NHL in hits per game.

It’s not even like we are such a good possession team to justify those numbers either.

We are scoring, converting on power plays and getting good goaltending. That’s why we’ve won games.

But, I think this kinda proves what everyone already knew: this team doesn’t battle. We are a soft, easy team to play against. We aren’t physical, we don’t win a lot of puck battles or sacrifice the body, we are careless with the puck and we have given up more high danger chances than we’ve gotten… concerning to see. The current roster and the way Berube wants to play, are not remotely fitting together. It’s last season all over again, and not much has changed.
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While we can explain away any of these individually, in toto they do paint picture of team lacking compete.
 
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A long NHL season is usually a process of gradually rising desperation to make the playoffs. Some teams start to feel it sooner than others, especially when they’re losing. But it’s pretty common to run into a team that is more desperate than yours is.

The Blues overachieved a bit early in the year. They had a cushion in points, but it was also a cushion from getting to the desperation they need to have to play better. Throw in several guys trying to recover from Covid, and it’s not hard to see them with up and down effort.

I don’t expect them to be the top contender this year, but I do think they’ll be a solid playoff team. A couple of these losses and I think they’ll be a notch more desperate. Until another team is feeling even more heat. It’s why the real season often feels like it starts at the trade deadline. By then, everyone who believes they should make the playoffs is trying to show it, to a man.

If the Blues hadn’t given up two lackadaisical short-handed goals, I’m not sure the Dallas defense would be getting as much credit. But I bet we continue to see dominant wins punctuated by baffling efforts for a couple more weeks.
 
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BlueDream said:
Yeah I fully understand and agree the stats I posted are not the end-all be-all. They can be misleading for sure. I just wanted to get some discussion going since I thought it was interesting and does support what a lot of us are seeing with the team.
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No I understand. I was just hoping that at least putting that out there, we might have more in depth conversations about why the team isn't playing well. They have the personnel to be a good team, they just aren't getting it done. It honestly might be best to stop looking at hockey as a sum of their stats and start looking at 5-10 game chunks to really understand wtf is going on because there are teams who are in line with the Blues stat wise, but they have been way outperforming this team. Is it because the Blues are underperforming or is the other team outperforming? Hockey is a tough sport to accurately analyze so it's a lot of us just comparing other advanced stats and trying to make a better argument.
 
Stupendous Yappi said:
A long NHL season is usually a process of gradually rising desperation to make the playoffs. Some teams start to feel it sooner than others, especially when they’re losing. But it’s pretty common to run into a team that is more desperate than yours is.

The Blues overachieved a bit early in the year. They had a cushion in points, but it was also a cushion from getting to the desperation they need to have to play better. Throw in several guys trying to recover from Covid, and it’s not hard to see them with up and down effort.

I don’t expect them to be the top contender this year, but I do think they’ll be a solid playoff team. A couple of these losses and I think they’ll be a notch more desperate. Until another team is feeling even more heat. It’s why the real season often feels like it starts at the trade deadline. By then, everyone who believes they should make the playoffs is trying to show it, to a man.

If the Blues hadn’t given up two lackadaisical short-handed goals, I’m not sure the Dallas defense would be getting as much credit. But I bet we continue to see dominant wins punctuated by baffling efforts for a couple more weeks.
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I mean there are a few performances where if they Blues just push till the end of the game, they win it. Instead, they either lose in overtime or lose in regulation and ultimately hurt their team psyche. For all we know, this changes the way we're talking about this team and who knows if we're sitting top 5 in the league.
 
Stupendous Yappi said:
A long NHL season is usually a process of gradually rising desperation to make the playoffs. Some teams start to feel it sooner than others, especially when they’re losing. But it’s pretty common to run into a team that is more desperate than yours is.

The Blues overachieved a bit early in the year. They had a cushion in points, but it was also a cushion from getting to the desperation they need to have to play better. Throw in several guys trying to recover from Covid, and it’s not hard to see them with up and down effort.

I don’t expect them to be the top contender this year, but I do think they’ll be a solid playoff team. A couple of these losses and I think they’ll be a notch more desperate. Until another team is feeling even more heat. It’s why the real season often feels like it starts at the trade deadline. By then, everyone who believes they should make the playoffs is trying to show it, to a man.

If the Blues hadn’t given up two lackadaisical short-handed goals, I’m not sure the Dallas defense would be getting as much credit. But I bet we continue to see dominant wins punctuated by baffling efforts for a couple more weeks.
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Nice way of capturing the emotional swings throughout the season.
 
Calls on McGing, Toropchenko, and Hofer.

waiting to watch Brown a bit more too.

Late Round picks putting in the work to lead the ahl team to 12-2-2 record.
 
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