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It wouldn't surprise me if Zetterlund made the NHL in the 4th line RW slot, while Foote stayed in the AHL.
2021/22 Utica Comets and ECHL Talk
- Thread starter Emperoreddy
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Thanks for the rehash.
Everything I have been able to garner from the multiple posts on this and particularly the Devils pages has raised Bahl to the heights of #1 D-prospect. On draft night one of the guys doing the US broadcast was raving about Bahl as a NJ D-Prospect when Hughes was being discussed. He was saying the Devils would have 2 top notch prospects in these 2. He described Bahl as a wrecking ball that hit anything that moved. Not exactly the only skill set important to a successful NHL D-man, but it certainly doesn't hurt. Some say he has a high hockey IQ. That's an extremely good trait to possess. There is so much more.
Any way you cut it Vuk and Ok are top prospects and will get regular shifts this season. Who needs sheltering and who doesn't projects one past the other. If there is a guy who can run with Walsh and be a prospect pairing that speaks volumes as well. Any prospect being hyped for the NHL that has to be protected is not yet ready for the jump. If he needs it up there to start so be it. Nothing unusual there, but if he needs it down here he will likely fail up there if he goes up before he sheds that need down here. That is also a condition usually reserved for big offensive threats from the D corps. None of these guys come with that as the big hype to their game.
It's guys like Quinn Hughes who can be accepted as needing shelter because the offense they provide is vital to the team's success. It's not odd for the big offensive D guy in the NHL to be paired with a very strong defense first partner. Quinn's weaknesses weren't noticed his rookie season in Vancouver because Chris Tanev covered them for him so well. Tanev went to Calgary and member after member of the D-corps got a chance to skate with Quin and none were highly successful as he posted an eye popping -24. Critics in Vancouver say that was the tip of the iceberg in clarifying his weaknesses. Some have even suggested maybe he should be traded for another top D-man and a#1 pick while his value is high. I think a lot of this is overthinking, but it might be advantageous to NJ if the critiques continue to gather strength.
Anybody going 0 for 21 games and then logging a -11 is not high on my list and certainly not on the 1st pairing. He's not in my top 6. So much for Groleau.
Walsh gets there automatically due to the scarcity of RD in the entire system. He will be given every chance to succeed for a couple more years. He seems to have an offensive side as well which can't hurt.
Russo will be the guy doing the major sheltering job. That's why he is here. The D-prospects are on the left side, 3 of them. Russo is a RD serving 2 purposes 1) helping to secure the right side and 2) sheltering the prospect that needs it most while he fixes his weaknesses while at the same time honing his strengths.
Based upon his work last season, Bahl has the inside track to start the season on the 1st pairing.
Jaros is the key piece in helping the Comets develop a strong top 6. If he ends up on the Utica roster, all is seemingly well.
In this situation White serves as depth where he probably belongs.
I've already said I hold out no hope for Masonius.
As I will tell you when I go through the forwards you outline next, I have not seen any of them skate nor concentrated on exactly how they platy their position. I don't know how well they pivot and if they they do it equally well in either direction. How's their 1st step? How many strides to hit their top speed and how fast is that top speed? How do the play the 1 on 1s? Can they keep a speedy rusher to the outside and literally take him out of the play? What is their gap control like. How do they play away from the puck in their own end. How well do they make the first pass? Is their stick quick or are they a reacher. Do they play the body or play the poke check game? Do they quickly pick up the net front without the puck or do they get caught puck watching while the guy nearest them or right behind them gets prime scoring chances? Passing. Puck rushing. Joining the rush. Shot- wrist, slapper, one timer. Pinch smarts. Walking the blueline. ETC. ETC. ETC.
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Tao Jersey Jones
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Then add Studenic to Utica.
edit: Zetterlund doesn't have to clear waivers, Studenic does. I could see Seattle taking a krak at Marian.
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Tao Jersey Jones
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Greer is a LW who played D for two games due to injuries and call ups after they played two 13 F/5 D games.
Yeah, I went back before I read this and fixed that mess. LOL
Do you mean dealing for him right away or waiting until he comes up for a contract next season as an RFA?.
Who does Seattle have right now that Fitz would consider making this a good deal for the Devils?
A RD
A 3rd Center
Nathan Bastian
Tao Jersey Jones
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I mean Seatlle would claim Studenic for free off of waivers when teams sneak players through before official 23-man rosters are due.
A-h-h-h, gotcha.
Do you think he is good enough to make their 23 man roster? He has to if they claim him. If they do try to send him down, the Devils have first crack at him.
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They would have to keep him on their main roster though. They are pretty deep at wing, if they were to grab someone off of waivers I would guess it would be someone who could play center or with more scoring upside.
I could see the Coyotes potentially grabbing Studenic, their fans are penciling Eriksson in as their 3rd line RW, with some other garbage. That team’s likely grabbing some player(s) from waivers.
Tao Jersey Jones
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I haven't looked at Seattle's RW depth yet. Studenic is a tweener at this point.A-h-h-h, gotcha.
Do you think he is good enough to make their 23 man roster? He has to if they claim him. If they do try to send him down, the Devils have first crack at him.
edit: ofc He'd behind Bastian, but I thought I saw Seattle folks putting Bastian at 4C.
My list includes:
I'm not counting Boqvist or Studenic as they are on the Devils roster at the moment. If NJ signs a 3rd center, Boqvist might get sent down
ELC Prospects -
Mercer (Yr 1 - Rookie)
Holtz (Yr 1 - Rookie)
Foote (Yr 1, last year was an ENTRY-LEVEL SLIDE
Clarke (Yr 1)
Talvitie (Yr 1)
Thompson (Yr 2)
Zetterlund (Yr 3)
Schnarr (Yr 3)
2-Way deals
Chase De Leo ($300K) LW/C/RW.
Brian Flynn ($280K) (RW, C)
Joseph Gambardella ($280K) (LW) Got a 2-year 2-way contract paying $320K next season)
Vet Exempt:
A.J. Greer (LW)
AHL Contracts -
Ryan Schmelzer (C)
Tyler Irvine (RW)
First off the 3 guys the Devils are paying the big contracts (though they are not actually the BIG contracts in the AHL there are guys making a lot more) are going to be in the top 12. 2 of them, Flynn and De Leo are veterans by AHL rules, Gambardella is not. 9 more.
The 2 rookies will be on the ice, Mercer and Holtz. 7 more
If he's there, Foote is an automatic. Same goes for Zetterlund. 5 more
Clarke, Thompson, and Schnarr. 2 more
It's between Greer, Talvitie, and Schmelzer. I see Greer (Veteran Exempt) due to his past production and Schmelzer as I see him being named the captain.
That would leave Talvitie and Irvine as depth.
If New Jersey adds that 3rd center (e.g. Bozak) Boqvist comes down. If they add another scoring wing (e.g. Tarasenko), Studenic might come down.
Foote could be up there anyways along with Boqvist, Studenic and or Zetterland if the Devils stand pat. Depends upon whether they go with 13 or 14 forwards. In all of these possibilities the Comets need more forwards. If they are left to actually use Laberge, Grasso, and Kaplan on any kind of regular basis and the next choices are ECHL regulars Rivera, Carrier, and Harper, their hopes for a big year are nipped right there. They have to have 2 or 3 more AHL level players up front beyond Talvitie and Irvine.
The team as it looks at the moment would have 3 veterans (2 forwards and 1 D-man) and 1 veteran-exempt (a forward). AHL teams are allowed 5 veterans and 1 vet exempt in the lineup on any night. That would leave the roster open for 2 more vets or 2 vet-exempts or 1 of each and all could be in the lineup. More than 1 vet-exempt can play and count in the six, but never more than 5 vets can be in the lineup at one time. So, if you have 2 exempts in the lineup only 4 vets wold be allowed.
5 vets + 1 exempt okay
4 vets + 2 exempts okay
3 vets + 3 exempts
etc
The roster can carry as many vets as a team wants. Utica had 8 at one time in '19-20. Only 1 was a VE so 2 had to sit. It was ridiculous as to who couldn't play.
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- Dec 20, 2018
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Here’s a depth chart from July 30th. Mason Appleton is a right handed shot almost only played RW in Winnipeg, he played a little C but this is putting him on the left because someone has to go there.
I’m guessing they might want to upgrade the LW on the 4th line but I don’t know who that is so I can’t speak to his upside.
I would post the Coyotes depth chart from the Athletic but I don’t think they have a beat writer, which is both sad and weird. So no depth chart article for them…
Tao Jersey Jones
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There are usually September signings and maybe some camp invites on PTOs. There are still some decent UFAs out there that you mentioned.
A mini Prospects Development camp announcement for late August/early September would be nice to break up the guessing games.
Yup, it's not uncommon to see guys signed at the end of the summer or into September, then as the NHL camps come to a close and all the released guys are looking for work, then the NHL waivers come in a flush of a day three, and then as late as the end of the AHL training camp. Sometime even early into the season. Then you might get an older guy who's has enough of Europe but didn't know it and his agent goes hunting for a landing spot. The Comets got Cal O'Reilly that way in 2013-14 and Pascal Pelletier in 2o17-18.
Isn't there a rookie tournament in Buffalo that New Jersey is attending?
Tao Jersey Jones
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Off the path a bit but a question for @Tao Jones or @Bad Goalie or some of the others on here who saw the AHL frequently last year.
Would the Comets' second-leading scorer last year Lukas Jasek been worth pursuing? He signed to play in Finland and was never signed by Vancouver so his NHL upside seems limited.
Just wondering about him as a player.
Edit: My mistake. He was signed by Vancouver and given a qualifying offer. They still hold his rights.
Would the Comets' second-leading scorer last year Lukas Jasek been worth pursuing? He signed to play in Finland and was never signed by Vancouver so his NHL upside seems limited.
Just wondering about him as a player.
Edit: My mistake. He was signed by Vancouver and given a qualifying offer. They still hold his rights.
Jasek was never treated right by the Canucks. He had been used and had enough. He arrived near the end of the 2017-18 season fresh out of the Czech League. He was said to be a RW and was thus placed there. teamed up with another late addition,Tanner MacMaster, They clicked. Jasek recorded 7 points in 6 games and MacMaster recorded most of his 7 points while playing with Lukas. Things looked kind of bright for the 2 kids if only judging by a small sample.
Jim Benning and the Vancouver management are on record over the 8 years the Comets were in Utica of not providing the team with quality centers. Instead they would acquire 1 and give the other 3 slots to known weak centers and the guys they decided to make into centers because they had once played there.
Wacey Hamilton was the perfect #4 over for the Comets when not injured. Originally teamed up with LW Carter Bancks and RW Mike Zalewski, they became the AHL's top checking line. They were ferocious forecheckers who often kept the other team's top line hemmed in their own zone for the entire shift and scored the bulk of their 14 combined goals off of the turnovers they created. It's too bad none were known for their scoring touch because they created tons of chances. They were also the top PKers and Hamilton was the team's best faceoff man often taking the defensive zone faceoffs for the team's top point man and #1 center Cal O'Reilly and quickly switching back to Call after winning the draw.
Given their first line center as the acquired vet and Wacey at #4 the #s 2 and 3 were manned by a constantly changing array of players. Bancks and Zalewski would be centers over the rest of their time as Comets and Bancks actually put up his career high of points (39) and goals (14) in 2015-16 as the team's #2/3 center. He never reached those kind of numbers aginover the next 4 seasons before retiring after the 2019-20 season. He was the team captain for those final 4 seasons after wearing an "A" the season prior to being named captain. Hamilton wore an "A" in each of the years Bancks wore the "C". They were prototype grinders who gave their all on every shift. Yet due to the team's dearth of centers both took on the roles of of all 4 center spots over the course of the 6 years both spent here. They ended their careers as Comets.
From 15-16 to the present the Comets have employed 38 centers and that counts Hamiltona and Bancks for all of those seasons. The single season acquired vets were:
'15-16 none They went with the in house guys Hamilton, Bancks, Zalewski, Friesen, Linden Vey (sent down by Vancouver played 26 games), Cole Cassels (Vancouver prospect) Not one stacks up as a 1 or 2 center besides Vey (25Pts/26GP).
'16-17 - none Well Michael Chaput was supposedly the vet center acquired to head up the 1st line, but he was called up after 10 games and never returned. Vanmcouver made no effort to replace him at any time. So, again working with what was in house. Curtis Valk as the #1 in his 3rd year with the Canucks and 1st with Utica after 2 with ECHL Kalamazoo. He finished as the #2 point man with 46, 1 behind the leader Darren Archibald. That gives you an indication of this teams's strength. A journeyman winger who's previous best was 24 playing 3rd line promoted to #1 line because it turned out there was no one better and a 3rd year pro playing his 1st season in the AHL. Valk wouldn't be given a QO at the end of the season. Bancks, Hamilton, Zalewski, Cassels (looking like a bust), and retread Pascal Pelletier playing on 1 leg made up the rest of the best.
'17-18 - AHA! The vet for #1 center Michael Chaput returns and is the man. Finishes 2nd in scoring to reid Boucher, Bancks, Hamilton, Cassels would prove to be the bust he had been showing us, Cam Darcy lower end of the AHL free agents, Brendan Woods another like Darcy , bt he would only play 14 games due to injury.
Jasek has arrived.
'18-19 - The single acquired vet is Tanner Kero finishing 2nd to Reid Boucher again the top scorer and fast becoming a goal scoring wiz in the AHL. Hamilton, Bancks, Darcy, Woods
It became apparent the centers after Kero couldn't cut it above #3. Jasek is now pressed into service and ends up the 2nd highest scoring center with a measley 29 points. That must mean the kid is a quality center. Right?
'19-20 - The center acquired this season was AHL veteran point amassing center Carter Camper.
The team was freaking loaded up front with Boucher and Vancouver dog house highly skilled forwards Sven Baertschi and Nikolay Goldobin. AHL scoring winger Justin Bailey was added to the mix and prospect Kole Lind, high scoring Jr, arrives on the scene.
Boucher and any wing he got proved to be scoring machines. He started with Lind, but was soon replaced with Baertschi. Jasek ended up as the #1 center because all any one of the eventual forwards on that line needed was to be given the puck. Baertschi and Goldobin were playmakers first and Boucher was the trigger man. Jasek just had to make a simple pass and wait to collect the assist. Camper ended up #2 feeding Bailey and Lind and the line instantly became another AHL top scoring liner behind the Comets first line. This fed Vancouver 3,000 miles away the impression that Jasek was a real good center and the bogus excuse for a GM they had here, Ryan Johnson, continuously boasted to Benning about the progress of Canucks prospects here buoying up his own resume., was touting Jasek's progress.
The kid's actual talent was limited. He was an okay skater and he could make a pass. That's not the skill level of an NHL center. He wasn't physical He did back check hard, but his speed didn't allow for any actual chasing down of an opponent ahead of him. His puck skills were not anything to write home about either. In the D-zone he often looked lost vs a pressuring opponent, but he held his own in board battles which likely came from his time over the years he had spent on the wing.
Boucher was #1 with 67 points which was #2 in the league, 3 points behind Sam Anas who had played 10 more games.
#2 Goldobin - 50 pts
#3 Bailey - 47 pts
#4 Baertschi - 46 pts
#6 Lind - 44 pts
#7 Camper - 41 pts
Where is Jasek? Playing with these kind of forwards he creeps in at #8 with a much reduced total of 27 pts.
Who were the other centers? Hamilton, Bancks, Stevens
'20-21 - The watered down shortened COVID AHL season.
The acquired Center was Sam Anas the previous season's #1 AHL scorer. Except Vancouver had nothing to do with it. The Canucks and St. Louis Blues shared the Comets. St.Louis had acquired Anas for their farm, San Antonio. They also sent center Tanner Kaspick. Vancouver sent Jasek, John Stevens and rookie Carson Focht. The only other center of significant playing time was was Hugh McGing.
Anas was # 1 in scoring and Jasek tied him, but played 5 more games. Anas got called up and sent back. The Comets who made noise, Gadjovich, Lind, and Rathbone got called up to Vancouver. Jasek never got the call.
At the end of the season Jasek made a career choice. He couldn't escape Vancouver who still held his rights and the writing on the wall was that they didn't consider him NHL material. He signed with the Pelicans of the Liiga, Finland's top league.
Over the course of the 6 years that Hamilton and Bancks comprised 2 of the Comets 4 regular centers, the Comets iced a total of 38 centers who played a significant number of games so that doesn't include the guys who got 1 to a handful of games (no more than 4).
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Does the NHL parent pay the higher guarantees to the AHL veterans or does the local ownership? The average NHL team could easily afford to pay a few AHL vets top minor league money but not many do it seems. The last few years NJ has had a boatload of prospects and has sprinkled in a few vets but they haven't loaded up the AHL team with tweeners in my view. When the kids hit critical mass, which they did just prior to covid you get a great run. Hopefully that happens this season with guys like Mercer, Holtz, Thompson, Foote, Talvitie, Schnarr, Bahl, Vuk, Ok, Walsh, Daws, etc. That's a fair number of first, second, and third round picks to stack on one minor league team. The talent will be there but there may be some bumps in the road until they get traction.
That's what the experienced pros are there for. To help with their development and to understand what it takes to weather those bumps along the way, both to the the team and to every player as an individual. Every player will experience failure along with their successes. Not understanding that the highs come with the lows and that learning to deal with both on an even keel is not easy. The experienced guys have been through it and can guide and aid the kids through their battles both real and imagined, big and small. This too is part of becoming a successful pro.
When a player signs an AHL contract I'm not sure where the money comes from. I always assumed salaries are the responsibility of the parent. Maybe someone can help us here.
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The Devils signed guys to two-way contracts with higher guaranteed salaries and those are the pricier tweeners we know of.
The main point of an AHL team is to have a successful program that does a good job of developing prospects, it’s a development league. Teams in bigger barns seem to spend more but we’ve have guys on two-ways to fill the most common holes: scoring center, vet leadership, experienced defenseman to pair with young defensemen.
You don’t want prospects, if they’re good promising prospects, to be completely carried by ringers though. It’s careful balance, you want support and leadership, and you don’t want a offense-free wasteland or defenseless war-zone but this team will have young guys that could struggle at times and that’s not a crime or tragedy or even bad in terms of development.
I’ve posted the salaries of past tweeners of yesteryear before (and it was no doubt riveting), but Street was a key one and since we barely had any actual defensive prospects in the AHL recently until last year, we had a lot of tweener defense. (Some of it, such as Tennyson and Mermis, was quite good.)
I agree with @Bad Goalie , and probably others, there doesn’t seem to be enough bodies on defense. Teams do sign guys pretty late and random dudes show up during the season. A dozen defensemen end up playing easily in a season.
I came up with a dozen because that’s what we’ve been roughly averaging in Bing. It can be a little less or even more (and I’m not counting conditioning assignments). I checked what Utica ran through and in some seasons it was a lot.
And when I say random guys show up, Joe Faust, famed 2010 4th rd NJ draft pick, played 2 games for the Utica Comets in 2017-18, on loan from his ECHL team the Idaho Steelheads, before retiring after that season. Joe f***ing Faust, there’s someone I haven’t thought about in a bit.
Im sorry, I can’t tell what you are trying to say. Maybe you can explain yourself at length so we can get past the brief sparse posts you offer.
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If I wasn’t developing tendinitis I would really let you have it.
Tao Jersey Jones
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Tao Jersey Jones
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