Rumor: 2021-22 Trade Rumors and FA Part V: To Giroux or not to Giroux

[EdAVSfan]

You start throwing essentially 2 x 1st rounders and additional pieces around the summer and you will return a very good player. The prices for the biggest names are inflated this time of the year.

As to trying to win, the team should target players that fill our needs. A scoring forward should not be the top priority for the Avs cup run.

It’s disingenuous to categorize Giroux as a “scoring forward”.

Giroux is a Swiss Army knife player. Can PK, can PP, play all positions, strong on faceoffs.

What we’ve seen from last playoffs is if you shutdown the top line, you have a great chance of beating the Avs.

With Giroux, matching up against the Avs becomes infinitely more difficult. They can spread talent across 3 lines. So you can’t just focus on the top line. Giroux also gives you another solid PKer who’s a threat shorthanded. Gives you a strong faceoff for important wins, on PK, on PP or end of period situations.

In fact, he helps many areas that the Avs need.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Probably, but technically its against the rules. You're not allowed to talk to your own upcoming free agents until 1 calendar year before they hit free agent status. That's the rule and its been the rule for a long time.

But its also one of those rules that you know isn't strictly enforced simply because of all the UFA extensions you see given out to guys throughout history on that same day where the window opens up. You just know the details were hammered out well in advance and the formality was simply waiting to officially announce it.

Terms weren't discusses in his answer.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

It’s disingenuous to categorize Giroux as a “scoring forward”.

Giroux is a Swiss Army knife player. Can PK, can PP, play all positions, strong on faceoffs.

What we’ve seen from last playoffs is if you shutdown the top line, you have a great chance of beating the Avs.

With Giroux, matching up against the Avs becomes infinitely more difficult. They can spread talent across 3 lines. So you can’t just focus on the top line. Giroux also gives you another solid PKer who’s a threat shorthanded. Gives you a strong faceoff for important wins, on PK, on PP or end of period situations.

In fact, he helps many areas that the Avs need.

Giroux would be great, but not for a ridiculous price. However, the Avs must get a legit shutdown Dman that pushes JJ or Murray out of the top 4. Nothing is more important at the deadline.

 

[Balthazar]

The big question here is if we trade for Giroux, can we convince him to re-up here for 1 or 2 years max at under 6M per?

I'd not mind to replace Bura with him next year but a player having a good season like that at age 34 is risky as f*** for any team. Logic tells us that he'll try to bank to this years' numbers and wants a 3-4 year contract. We can't do that.

Edit: Now that I think about it, even 2 years would be too much. Wouldn't want a 36 yo player with a 6M cap hit.

 

[dahrougem2]

One of the only things that concerns me with Giroux:

First 50 playoff games: 55 points

Last 35 playoff games: 18 points

Early on in his career he was known for being a big time playoff performer, a guy that wants to play in the big games. Hasn't really had that reputation over the last decade, though.

 

[Richard88]

From our perspective yes, but maybe Philly is waiting. Or maybe Giroux's camp is waiting to see what else is out there or to decide exactly what he wants to do.

I tend to agree it's in the Avs best interest to get a deal done right away but maybe it isn't for other parties.

If we're dealing only with Philadelphia (i.e. no third team doing double retention) and Compher is going back the other way then it could get done early from a cap perspective. The difference between Giroux at 50% ($4.14m) and Compher ($3.5m) capwise is only ~$640k, which is space the Avs currently have.

That said, Compher has a higher base salary ($4.5m) this season than Giroux ($4m), so Philadelphia would need to be willing to pay some extra cash to make it happen.

There's 38% of the season remaining, meaning that Compher is due another $1.71m this year (i.e. 38% of $4.5m). Giroux is due another $1.52m (i.e. 38% of $4m). If Philadelphia retain 50% now they'd be paying Giroux another $760k, plus $1.71m for Compher, a combined $2.47m. Thus Philadelphia would be spending an extra $950k in real cash (i.e. $2.47m - $1.52m) over what they would just pay Giroux if they kept him. That figure will become smaller the closer we get to the deadline, so it's in Philadelphia's interest to wait a bit if they want to save some real cash.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Giroux would be great, but not for a ridiculous price. However, the Avs must get a legit shutdown Dman that pushes JJ or Murray out of the top 4. Nothing is more important at the deadline.

I’m not sure if that’s entirely true.

This type of move purely backfired last year.

The Avs play a type of game that’s different than others. They rely on skating and keeping the puck. That’s what makes them good. The more defensive you are, the more you stick out like a sore thumb on this team.

You gotta be a good skater and you have to be good with the puck to play for Bednar and his system. A guy like Savard would be like a fish out of water here.

We lost last year because once the stone line negated the Mack line, we got absolutely pummeled by their depth.

So I don’t think it’s a clear cut as we need D, not more scoring.

 

[Balthazar]

I’m not sure if that’s entirely true.

This type of move purely backfired last year.

The Avs play a type of game that’s different than others. They rely on skating and keeping the puck. That’s what makes them good. The more defensive you are, the more you stick out like a sore thumb on this team.

You gotta be a good skater and you have to be good with the puck to play for Bednar and his system. A guy like Savard would be like a fish out of water here.

We lost last year because once the stone line negated the Mack line, we got absolutely pummeled by their depth.

So I don’t think it’s a clear cut as we need D, not more scoring.

Hence getting quality depth forwards that can help defensively.

 

[Richard88]

Assuming no deadline moves, Vegas when healthy:

Pacioretty-Eichel-Stone
Smith-Karlsson-Marchessault
Janmark-Stephenson-Dadonov
Carrier-Roy-Kolesar
Howden/Patrick

Martinez-Pietrangelo
McNabb-Theodore
Hague-Whitecloud
Coghlan/Hutton

Lehner
Brossoit​

That's a stacked team. If the Avs lose to them, my mind immediately goes back to Colorado's bad off-season.

Was the off-season really that bad in hindsight?

Pretty sure everyone here would agree that $7m and $9m for Landeskog and Makar were solid if not great numbers, respectively.

The price to acquire Kuemper was obviously steep and is the biggest knock on the offseason, but letting Grubauer walk seems like the right decision so far.

In terms of depth moves moving Donskoi and Graves' combined $7m caphits off the roster, for a 2nd (Behrens) and Maltsev, also looks like tidy work.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Hence getting quality depth forwards that can help defensively.

Sure Lekhnonen helps in some areas, but he doesn’t help depth scoring.

We saw last year what just losing Kadri did. We were essentially a one line team. Lekhonen doesn’t help in that area at all.

We can’t assume either that we’re gonna roll through the playoffs and all our scoring threats are going to stay healthy.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Sakic also mentioned he's hopeful Byram is going to return.


I'm assuming that's the game plan they're going with right now until Byram says otherwise and with Byram back the need for a Top 4 Dman really doesn't exist.

Personally I dont think the need for a Top 4 guy exists in general. A bottom pairing guy that pushes at least one of Murray/JJ out of the lineup is all that's needed IMO.


I'll keep pounding the table for Luke Schenn. Here's a veteran guy that just won b2b cups with Tampa Bay as a depth Dman for them. Now he's in Vancouver having a really solid season. He's been playing Tanev's role with the Canucks as Hughes' babysitter and has really helped Hughes re-establish his game in the league.

IMO Schenn would do a lot of good things to help Sammy G in the playoffs, take a lot of pressure off of his shortcomings in the playoffs and allow him to do what he does best more effectively. He also shouldn't cost very much at all to acquire. Probably a 3rd round pick or similar sort of prospect. I'd do a 3rd + Kaut to get it done as well.

And the nice thing about Schenn is he's signed through next year for 850k as well, so you get your cheap 2nd/3rd pairing RHD for next year figured out already as well.



Toews - Makar
Girard - Schenn
Byram - EJ


With Murray and JJ as the reserves.

 

[the_fan]

I’m not sure if that’s entirely true.

This type of move purely backfired last year.

The Avs play a type of game that’s different than others. They rely on skating and keeping the puck. That’s what makes them good. The more defensive you are, the more you stick out like a sore thumb on this team.

You gotta be a good skater and you have to be good with the puck to play for Bednar and his system. A guy like Savard would be like a fish out of water here.

We lost last year because once the stone line negated the Mack line, we got absolutely pummeled by their depth.

So I don’t think it’s a clear cut as we need D, not more scoring.

Hence trading for MacDermid

 

[Richard88]

Getting Giroux or Pavs would be great, obviously. They're no-brainers. But man my faith in our pro scouting is low. They've had, what, one major success since the Avs started competing?

Yep, amateur scouting is where we need changes. Need to be able to find a couple players here and there outside of the top 10-15

Yep. Having a good amateur scouting would go a long way in extending our cup window.
Unfortunately there's really no signs of that area getting any better. At least no soon enough to help when we need it the most.

Huh? The Avs pro scouting is unreal. It's the amateur scouting that's dogshit.

I agree that the Avs pro scouting has been awesome. They've clearly had a well-defined and cohesive blueprint for what things to target in players that would make them a good fit for Bednar's system, and they've found and acquired players that fit that blueprint well. This is evident in the fact that all the big acquisitions have had strong transition metrics (eg. zone exits/entries), especially Burakovsky, Donskoi, and Toews. Others like Nichuskin, Graves, and Saad have also fit in well.

The amateur scouting has been questionable for years, but there are at least recent signs that there's a blueprint being followed that is similar to the pro scouting blueprint, which should theoretically lead to better results. Prospects like Barron, Foudy, Ambrosio, Olausson, Behrens, and Buyalski all have good skating and excel in transition, so at the very least it seems that the amateur scouts are starting to identify players in relation to a set of well-defined parameters that has worked very well at the pro level. The only question is whether the organization can mold these prospects into useful NHL'ers, but it looks promising given the apparent cohesion in the scouting blueprints at pro and amateur levels.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Let's not forget that by acquiring Giroux we do in fact improve our 3rd line by either adding Giroux to it or moving Nuke down. Either way that 3rd line instantly become elite and de facto improves the 4th line as well. As others have said already adding Giroux solves another huge issue we had last playoffs which is adding secondary scoring if the 1st line gets shutdown. Furthermore the possibilities for line combinations become insane with Giroux in the line up even if we have an injury to one of our current top-6 Fwds. I understand the cap issue but ideally I would like the Giroux trade done as soon as possible in order for the players to build chemistry with him.

If a 3rd team is used to acquire Giroux the Avs should still be able to add a decent dman to push down EJ, JJ and Murray.

MAF rumors just don't make any sense anymore.

 

[Richard88]

Live look at JT Compher:

 

[shadow1]

Was the off-season really that bad in hindsight?

Pretty sure everyone here would agree that $7m and $9m for Landeskog and Makar were solid if not great numbers, respectively.

The price to acquire Kuemper was obviously steep and is the biggest knock on the offseason, but letting Grubauer walk seems like the right decision so far.

In terms of depth moves moving Donskoi and Graves' combined $7m caphits off the roster, for a 2nd (Behrens) and Maltsev, also looks like tidy work.

The Landeskog and Makar contracts were great, and you're right that I shouldn't knock the off-season too much on that alone.

I actually don't mind the Kuemper move much, or at all. 1st + Timmins was a high price to pay, and Kuemper had a rocky first couple months, but overall it seems to be working out.

However, I still think it was bad. I know Colorado is amazing this season, but that has way more to do with Nazem Kadri scoring at a 120 point pace for 42 games than anything Sakic did in the off-season. Not counting goalies or expansion loses, the Avalanche exchanged Bellemare, Graves, Nemeth, Saad, Timmins --> Helm, Johnson, MacDermid, Maltsev, Murray, none of whom are moving the needle much.

I also think the decision to not buyout Erik Johnson was the wrong move. Johnson has been healthy (so far), but he's slowing down a lot as the season has gone on. If his salary prevents Colorado from making a sizable move at the deadline and/or he gets hurt in the playoffs, I think it's a decision that may come back to haunt the Avalanche. Just my $0.02.

 

[Peter Peckerwood]

Flyers checking out Colorado prospects for potential Claude Giroux trade; Cam York injured


Unless I'm missing it, no mention of Barron here.

 

[the_fan]

Stars keep winning so I don't expect them to trade their leading scorer Pavelski. They have a very good chance at making the playoffs with games in hand on teams they're chasing. It's gotta be Giroux or some surprise move no one saw coming

 

[AvsFanInMichigan]

Sure it’d suck to lose prospects like Barron and Ranta but in the end the Avs want to win a cup. Nobody is gonna care if the Avs trade them away and they end up winning the cup.

 

[Richard88]

Kinda a strong quote here

Very strong indeed. It certainly sounds like he's open to moving someone out in a playoff year, which is something he hasn't done in the past. He's typically stuck to making one or two small additions to the roster without anyone heading out, at least in recent years (i.e. Brassard, Namestnikov, Nemeth/Soderberg/Dubnyk).

The obvious ones are JTC and Jost, but the quote from Sakic does make you wonder about EJ. It would be pretty surprising to see him moved though given that it would only create a hole on the right side of the defense which is already pretty weak.

I wonder who on Tampa that high ranking Flyers member and scout are in town to watch.



This is an interesting quote. There are only two players on the Avs who aren’t earning their cap hit. I remember years ago Bob McKenzie was floating EJ to the Flyers at the deadline. Always thought EJ would look good in the Black and Orange. Maybe Sakic is feeling ruthless and would move EJ.

For the sake of discussion, if EJ was moved to Philadelphia it's quite convenient that they happen to have a pending UFA RHD who could be his direct replacement in the lineup, i.e. Braun.

For what it's worth, Giroux at 50% ($4.07m aav) + Braun ($1.8m) is a combined $5.8m, almost equal with EJ's $6m caphit. Money in, money out...

EJ would have to waive

EJ has to submit a list of 19 teams he can be traded to, so effectively he can block a trade to 12 teams. Presumably all seven canadian teams would be teams he'd block moves to. Then maybe teams like Buffalo and Arizona (unless he likes golf enough to endure a year on that team?). That would leave another 3 teams he can block.

Honestly though I don't think Sakic would be that ruthless to a guy who stuck by the team in the lean years and recently did the team a solid by agreeing to waive his NMC at the expansion draft. It's a strong quote though for sure.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Stars keep winning so I don't expect them to trade their leading scorer Pavelski. They have a very good chance at making the playoffs with games in hand on teams they're chasing. It's gotta be Giroux or some surprise move no one saw coming

If its not Giroux I'm guessing its either Andrew Copp or Paul Stastny.


Sakic made a point the other night to mention how some teams were still hanging onto the playoff picture and a bit unknown with regards to being sellers or not and I think that screamed Winnipeg.


Either of Copp or Stastny, while not as good as Giroux, would help the forward depth nicely.

 

[Hasbro]

I liked the sugested trade of JTC straight up for Kessel (50%) just for the fact that it gets rid of JTCs contract next season.

 

[Hasbro]

You'd have to trade a 1st with EJ to move him.

 

[the_fan]

If its not Giroux I'm guessing its either Andrew Copp or Paul Stastny.


Sakic made a point the other night to mention how some teams were still hanging onto the playoff picture and a bit unknown with regards to being sellers or not and I think that screamed Winnipeg.


Either of Copp or Stastny, while not as good as Giroux, would help the forward depth nicely.

Or Kessel?

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Byram is kind of the wild card here. If he comes back the defence is rock solid and you can actually get by with an injury.

Right now an injury to Makar, or Toews pretty much cripples the defence. Though I do think getting MacDonald back will help with depth.

On the forward side, I like Lekhonen a lot. He’s a RFA, so you could easily sign him and make him a part of the club beyond this season. I’d be pretty happy getting him and a depth defenceman.