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GDT: 2021-22 season WESTERN CONFERENCE QUARTER FINALS Game 6 LA Kings vs Edmonton Oilers 5/12/22 LA leads 3-2

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WhatTheFox said:
It's not about Byfield or Vilardi per se, its about removing TMac's obessive complsive need to put AA out there. If that means Vilardi playing 5 mins a game, I think most people would prefer that vs 15 mins of AA. Lot happens in those 15 mins of his.
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I agree that bad coaching is the problem. But I think the only people here that are defending any of the draft players are solely because of where they’re drafted.

Byfield being the biggest benefit of this. Byfield has shown Jordan Nolan amount of moments where you can tell he has some skill but nothing else. The kings are losing to the oilers because our top picks have not planned out into anything.

@Raccoon Jesus as much as I respect your opinion I think you’re extremely defensive about Byfield because you were high on him before he was drafted. There is no amount of off-season transformation that can make him look like a second line player. Regardless of how young he is players drafted this high show semblances of their skill often and are just very rough in their game. Byfield is extremely rough in his game and looks like a typical fourth liner.

Kings would probably be ahead and closed out the series if our prospects weren’t such a dumpster fire. I think the scouts, and the coach got to go regardless.

Also I won’t stop being salty about Stutzle the same way you won’t stop being defensive over Byfield. I saw a straight liner player who was dominant off the rush in a bad league and I knew that game wouldn’t translate well into the NHL. So far one of us has been right and there’s zero that he’s done to suggest that he will transform
 
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Maybe they aren't very good and somehow had a 99 point season with like a plus five goal differential?

That said: Koala is Captain Choke and the next time he doesn't captain a choke will be the first time. We hired the guy that helmed the Sharks through their biggest chokes. Then he choked it in Edmonton.

Let's give him $5MM a year haha.

I'm not arguing that this season has been infinitely better than the last few but shame on any of you that think this guy is a winner. He's lucky he's going up against the video assistant he mentored.
 
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WhatTheFox said:
It's not about Byfield or Vilardi per se, its about removing TMac's obessive complsive need to put AA out there. If that means Vilardi playing 5 mins a game, I think most people would prefer that vs 15 mins of AA. Lot happens in those 15 mins of his.
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AA has played more than Vilardi this year because he was better than Vilardi. Which again isn't saying much but for a team that needs offense you have a better chance of getting it from AA than you do of getting it from Vilardi. Doesn't mean either guy is what you want in a playoff lineup, they aren't.

AA is a 28 year old journeyman who sucks defensively and will be on his 4th team in 4 years next season and Gabe Vilardi is a 23 year old AAAA player.

Those are the options Blake has given TMac, and for a team that can't score it's not surprising the coach chooses the player who scored at a 50Pt pace over a player who scored at a 23 point pace. They are both in the lineup to score, they are both awful defensively and not very physical.
 
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Herby said:
AA has played more than Vilardi this year because he was better than Vilardi. Which again isn't saying much but for a team that needs offense you have a better chance of getting it from AA than you do of getting it from Vilardi. Doesn't mean either guy is what you want in a playoff lineup, they aren't.

AA is a 28 year old journeyman who sucks defensively and will be on his 4th team in 4 years next season and Gabe Vilardi is a 23 year old AAAA player.

Those are the options Blake has given TMac, and for a team that can't score it's not surprising the coach chooses the player who scored at a 50Pt pace over a player who scored at a 23 point pace. They are both in the lineup to score, they are both awful defensively and not very physical.
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I think some people forget that someone like Lizotte who’s 5’7 and undrafted has shown more skill and effectiveness than a second overall 6’5 guy. I don’t care how young he is, a 6’5 guy drafted second OVERALL having worse puck protection than a 5’7 lizotte is embarrassing.
 
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Technically Friday the 13th when they lost. Maybe this will finally close the Fri the 13th, 2014 loop curse?

If you're not rolling 4 lines, and not using one or even two forwards on either special teams, I'd rather see Spence be able to take a PP minute here and there. Like I don't care if in the moment Kupari doesn't play, but why dress him?
 
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Vilardi sucks. Byfield sucks. AA sucks.

There isn't a magic answer except for be smarter when McDavid is on the ice.

This team isn't very good. End of story. That's why this is house money. Still... Had him at home in the 3rd period and a selfish player made his usual selfish play.
 
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Sol said:
I think some people forget that someone like Lizotte who’s 5’7 and undrafted has shown more skill and effectiveness than a second overall 6’5 guy. I don’t care how young he is, a 6’5 guy drafted second OVERALL having worse puck protection than a 5’7 lizotte is embarrassing.
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Was always going to be a long term project. Probably kind of like Lindros. He was just physically superior to his age group, that he never had to keep his head up. Which is what derailed his NHL career. Byfield might have to learn to protect the puck, or else he'll be doing something else for money in the not too distant future, somewhere in time and space.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
Yes, playing 'experienced' players like AA and Lemieux sure paid huge dividends tonight.

You said it yourself...all things being equal, might as well have 20 year olds on the bench instead of 27 year olds predictably shooting you in the dick. At least if you go down with the kids it's for the future, not riding out a pathetic UFA journeyman.
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I did not say that. A players age should be one of the last things to consider when deciding who plays and who sits a playoff game. I also don't consider someone who turns 23 in a couple of months a kid, Byfield is a kid, Vilardi, JAD and Lias are not kids. Players that age are for the most part finished products.

If it's games 60-82 for the Ducks or Sharks, sure play the younger players like QB. For the playoffs? No
 
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BigKing said:
Vilardi sucks. Byfield sucks. AA sucks.

There isn't a magic answer except for be smarter when McDavid is on the ice.

This team isn't very good. End of story. That's why this is house money. Still... Had him at home in the 3rd period and a selfish player made his usual selfish play.
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Agreed, no matter who the Kings 10, 11, 12 forwards are it's going to be bad. All year those 3 spots failed to deliver, no matter who was in them. The Kings "3rd line" which was really the 4th line, had to have been one of the worst lines in the NHL this year. Not addressing it at the deadline was unfortunate, but I think when DD went down Blake probably didn't think we'd make it and didn't want to add a depth forward or two.

And you are correct, the Kings did not make very smart plays with those two on the ice.

Stetcher ices the puck with Kupari and Lemieux on the ice allowing the Oilers to take an off zone faceoff vs them.

Grundstrom stolls one on the rush as Moore and Danault were both below the circles , McDavid came very close to getting a breakaway off that.

AA fails to get the puck in deep during a change. Just a simple play any pro should know to make.

Moore makes a terrible defensive read, I know its Drai, but Drai is less dangerous on the half wall than Barrie is all alone to skate in from the top of the circles.
 
Herby said:
AA has played more than Vilardi this year because he was better than Vilardi. Which again isn't saying much but for a team that needs offense you have a better chance of getting it from AA than you do of getting it from Vilardi. Doesn't mean either guy is what you want in a playoff lineup, they aren't.

AA is a 28 year old journeyman who sucks defensively and will be on his 4th team in 4 years next season and Gabe Vilardi is a 23 year old AAAA player.

Those are the options Blake has given TMac, and for a team that can't score it's not surprising the coach chooses the player who scored at a 50Pt pace over a player who scored at a 23 point pace. They are both in the lineup to score, they are both awful defensively and not very physical.
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Sol said:
I think some people forget that someone like Lizotte who’s 5’7 and undrafted has shown more skill and effectiveness than a second overall 6’5 guy. I don’t care how young he is, a 6’5 guy drafted second OVERALL having worse puck protection than a 5’7 lizotte is embarrassing.
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I'm not even going to indulge the 'who's better' tonight because it's pointless. You guys are attacking a red herring.

My only point is if you're going to play a 27 year old who is unlikely to be with the team next year or a 20 year old who has a long future (or not, depending on how you feel) with the team, it's an easy choice. If you're only going to play 3 lines and sit the rest on the bench, put that kid on the bench so he at least soaks in the atmosphere instead of eating popcorn while someone else coughs up the game.

That, and the 20 year old making mistakes is learning; the 27 year old doing the same dumb shit that got him jettisoned from every other team he's ever been on is irredeemable.
 
Herby said:
I did not say that. A players age should be one of the last things to consider when deciding who plays and who sits a playoff game. I also don't consider someone who turns 23 in a couple of months a kid, Byfield is a kid, Vilardi, JAD and Lias are not kids. Players that age are for the most part finished products.

If it's games 60-82 for the Ducks or Sharks, sure play the younger players like QB. For the playoffs? No
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You literally said

Herby said:
Teams obviously want their high picks to play all things being equal.
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I'm not saying decide solely on age; i'm just saying if you're going to 'not play' random bullshit ufas you might as well have the kids in there.

Christ, some of the pendantry to run around the point on purpose is ridiculous. No one said anything about JAD and Lias and whether you consider Vilardi a kid or not because he crossed a magic birthday for you the fact remains he's a young NHLer with few nhl games played comparatively

Regardless it sounds like we agree the Kings are on fumes and getting next to nothing out of anything beyond like 9 forwards, it's just reconfiguring what's left that we disagree on. And this weird thing where if you say anything bad about AA someone else has to retort by trashing a bunch of prospects.
 
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I mean I’m with @Herby on this one. Byfield didn’t play well enough to stick in the lineup. The problem is, I’m with @Raccoon Jesus too, because neither has AA.

We have about eight contributing forwards: Kopitar, Danault, Kempe, Iafallo, Moore, Lizotte, Kaliyev, and Grundstrom. Arvidsson would have made a huge difference this series, and we absolutely needed to trade for a third line center to give this team a chance. I know I’ve beat this drum to death, but imagine this team with JT Miller? Plus a healthy Doughty and Arvidsson?

Kempe - Kopitar - Kaliyev
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson
Iafallo - Miller - Grundstrom
Lemieux - Lizotte - Brown

Anderson - Doughty
Maatta - Roy
Edler - Durzi

That’s a much very different team of course. This series is tied up mostly because we can’t help but overcommit on McDavid and Draisaitl. It leaves a trailer wide open, often with chaos in front of the net. It’s such a simple strategy, I wish we would have thought of it: simply draft two of the best players on the planet and play them for 40 minutes a game!
 
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kilowatt said:
I mean I’m with @Herby on this one. Byfield didn’t play well enough to stick in the lineup. The problem is, I’m with @Raccoon Jesus too, because neither has AA.

We have about eight contributing forwards: Kopitar, Danault, Kempe, Iafallo, Moore, Lizotte, Kaliyev, and Grundstrom. Arvidsson would have made a huge difference this series,
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And that's exactly my point, though.

TM has no problem flipping guys in and out as need be. Vilardi didn't stick. Neither did Byfield. Fine. Kupari came in and at least has an identity fit for the bottom six, so that's ok. Then AA comes in, stinks up the joint, and gets rewarded with MORE and MORE CRUCIAL playing time. Why is it then so hard to sit AA and flip someone else equally ineffective in when, if nothing else positive is going to happen, it will pay future dividends? Thats it.

Like, I know we're all watching the same guy make stupid ass selfish plays at the most crucial juncture of the season. I don't know why its' so easy for some folks to get out the guillotine for Byfield when the best player in the world robs him from behind, but they're in here massaging AA's better qualities while he half assedly hands the puck to McDavid standing right in front of him for the GWG. TM jettisoned QB for the former, then literally rewarded AA for the latter.
 
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The only thing I could keep thinking while sitting there tonight was that the constant faceoffs and icings were allowing them to easily send McDavid out there every other shift. And there's nothing that the Kings can do to stop that, absolutely nothing at all. They can't stop McDavid. It's totally out of their control. You put him on the ice for almost half the game and some shit's gonna happen.

That being said if we had Arvidsson this series would be over. We don't have a third line of players that can reliably keep the Oilers pinned in the zone when McDavid's out there, and there's nothing that can be done to fix that. Maybe on Saturday Quick plays better and kicks some pucks into the corners where our players get them first. I don't think there's any kind of answer for how to win other than for some shit like that to happen and go our way.
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
And that's exactly my point, though.

TM has no problem flipping guys in and out as need be. Vilardi didn't stick. Neither did Byfield. Fine. Kupari came in and at least has an identity fit for the bottom six, so that's ok. Then AA comes in, stinks up the joint, and gets rewarded with MORE and MORE CRUCIAL playing time. Why is it then so hard to sit AA and flip someone else equally ineffective in when, if nothing else positive is going to happen, it will pay future dividends? Thats it.
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Because AA put up the 4th best P/60 on the team this season. QB was 15th, Vilardi was 19th, Kupari was 18th. He is obviously hoping that AA can bring some offense. All things being equal, he has controlled possession against the bottom 6 and has shown the ability to produce, so he is getting a leash.
 
crassbonanza said:
Because AA put up the 4th best P/60 on the team this season. QB was 15th, Vilardi was 19th, Kupari was 18th. He is obviously hoping that AA can bring some offense.
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Yes. Just like we had hoped the others would have brought some offense, and they didn't, and they went to the bench.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
And that's exactly my point, though.

TM has no problem flipping guys in and out as need be. Vilardi didn't stick. Neither did Byfield. Fine. Kupari came in and at least has an identity fit for the bottom six, so that's ok. Then AA comes in, stinks up the joint, and gets rewarded with MORE and MORE CRUCIAL playing time. Why is it then so hard to sit AA and flip someone else equally ineffective in when, if nothing else positive is going to happen, it will pay future dividends? Thats it.
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And to add to this again, it comes down to 5 mins of crap vs 15 mins of crap. Granted other players will need to pickup the ice time but a couple of players a little more fatigued has got to be better than that shit show from AA.

He's supposed to bring offense, but he's got 1 goal off a great play by Brown. Other than that it's been him trying to dangle 5 guys and fail.
 
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Anyway, I think we can all agree that Edler crashing the net is basically the harbinger of doom, speaking of players who don't learn.
 
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