GDT: 2021-22 season game 51 LA Kings vs Arizona Coyotes @7:00pm 2/23/22

[Mats26]

I think it is time for JAD to be given another chance at 3C. He fits that role better than Byfield.

 

[Kudelski37]

I think it is time for JAD to be given another chance at 3C. He fits that role better than Byfield.

Changing centers won't change results if AA is still on the line. Sit AA and see what happens.

 

[MBH]

You're right it's probably

View attachment 510130

Not AA's fault it's

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Every other C he plays with's fault.

View attachment 510132

You're going to use CF% on based on scatterings of minutes?
Good call.

AA was at 2-3-5 in 8 games and was +2 before he got hurt or left the lineup.

The only player on the Brown/Byfield/AA line who's done a thing since this garbage line was put together is AA (2-1-3 in 8 games - but an ugly -6).
Byfield is 1-0-1 and Brown is 0-0-0.

Byfield's GA/60 is 3.11 - 2nd worst on the team to Vilardi.
His GF is 1.56.
The only forward with more minutes and a worse GF/60 is Anderson.
His GA/60 is 33.33
So for every goal scored, the Kings give up 2.

Byfield can't center an NHL line.
He's terrible with the puck in his own zone.
So coach Mac puts him with perhaps the two worst defensive wingers on the team.

You've got an offensive winger who's not strong in his own zone.
An over-the-hill winger who only as PP value.
And you decide to play them together and center them with a nowhere-near ready for prime-time rookie?

That's the definition of stupid.
You want to make this about AA - but AA has been a plus player in LA when utilized correctly.

 

[Kudelski37]

You're going to use CF% on based on scatterings of minutes?
Good call.

It supports the eye test. The Kings are effectively playing 4 on 5 with AA on the ice.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Like I've been saying about Byfield since he was 17.
At 25, he'll be the most dominant player from his draft. But he's going to be a project. He should have been in the OHL in his D+1 year. Maybe this year two.

Instead the Kings are forcing him to play the toughest job in the NHL
10 games
1-0-1 -3
12 shots.

The haters are going to start piling on.
The whispers will start.
- Maybe we should have drafted Raymond - (hint, he's got an easy job as a winger on the top line with Detroit's best players).
The pressure will build.

Bring Byfield up slowly.
Let him do it in the AHL - let him prove it there.
Or, make him a winger on a legit line where he doesn't have to carry the mail.


Use Kupari or JAD or Vilardi as your 3C. They can't be any worse.
Use AA as a 3C.

But man...
Brown 13 games 0-4-4 -7
Byfield 10 games 1-0-1 -3
AA 7 games 2-1-3 -5 since returning.

Those are not pretty numbers. The Kings are winning. But you can't keep getting caved in on a line the way they are.

So much this. You would have to think management sees the issue but is content for now because their record.

 

[Fat Elvis]

Couple things

Great to get 2 points. Arizona played tough, liking Keller.
Chrychrun is ok. He's absolutely not worth 4 nice assets. Definitely better defensemen on his own team.
The Lizotte line is the 3rd line. AK is getting better and I'm loving his compete.
DB-QB-AA is a dumpster fire. Hopefully by the TDL AA is not part of that problem. Hopefully by next season DB is not part of the problem either.
VA-PD-TM line is just so solid game in, game out. Amazing chemistry and dig the work ethic. A+
QB has been talked about and he did have a rough game. That line, no bueno.

 

[Bandit]

You're going to use CF% on based on scatterings of minutes?
Good call.

Dude you love AA so much you followed him here from Detroit. If anyone's got a biased opinion on the topic, I might suggest a mirror.

 

[MBH]

So much this. You would have to think management sees the issue but is content for now because their record.

Some people would rather blame everyone else than acknowledge the fact that Byfield isn't ready.
And these people play into the kind of thinking that could ruin him.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Some people would rather blame everyone else than acknowledge the fact that Byfield isn't ready.
And these people play into the kind of thinking that could ruin him.

I've said all along he should be in the AHL centering the top line or alongside Kopitar all season.

 

[MBH]

Dude you love AA so much you followed him here from Detroit. If anyone's got a biased opinion on the topic, I might suggest a mirror.

There's no question I like AA.
But you can't get any damn thing out of AA if you can't get him the puck.
Jeff Carter got him the puck. Danault got him the puck.

When he's out there with Brown/Byfield, it's just a shitshow. Nobody has the puck.

You can win with AA as a scoring winger.
You can't win with Byfield as a 3C right now. And I'm not sure why people want to keep trying at the expense of his development.

 

[bland]

Some people would rather blame everyone else than acknowledge the fact that Byfield isn't ready.
And these people play into the kind of thinking that could ruin him.

Your boy is not a team player, he is out on an island every shift. Sometimes its a sexy, sexy island, but mostly its all Gilligans and no Gingers.

 

[MBH]

I've said all along he should be in the AHL centering the top line or alongside Kopitar all season.

This is how the Wings developed Larkin.
They used him as a Winger in his rookie year (D+2).
Then they shifted him to center in his sophomore year.

I don't think the Kings should break up Kempe-Kopitar-Iafalo.
Nor should they break up the Moore-Danault-Arvy line
But if Byfield is not in the AHL, I think he should be lining up next to Kopitar. He could learn a lot from Kopitar, even if Kopitar is struggling out there.
He could score some goals and start feeling good about his game.

Being a 3C as a super-raw 19-year-old who's barely played any high level hockey would be hard if you had Hossa and Kane as your wingers.
Asking him to carry two defensively suspect wingers is f***ing lunacy.

 

[bland]

There's no question I like AA.
But you can't get any damn thing out of AA if you can't get him the puck.
Jeff Carter got him the puck. Danault got him the puck.

When he's out there with Brown/Byfield, it's just a shitshow. Nobody has the puck.

You can win with AA as a scoring winger.
You can't win with Byfield as a 3C right now. And I'm not sure why people want to keep trying at the expense of his development.

Athanasiou is a discount scoring winger, for teams with no real aspirations who want to pot a few goals. Good teams don't want players like him, if they do they go for much better options.

Regarding Byfield, this is exactly where he should be right now, and yes, you are right, they likely won't win anything right now. They shouldn't be winning right now either, this is a season-long delay in the development of what really is the best foot forward. The kids need to play at the expense of budget vets like Athanasiou, not with them.

 

[Mats26]

Changing centers won't change results if AA is still on the line. Sit AA and see what happens.

Don't think that at all. So you add Grundstrom with Byfield and Brown and you expect QB to all of a sudden start scoring? The kid is raw and losing confidence, he is struggling with the structure and role he is in. If they keep drilling him to become a 200 foot all situational center they will stunt his offensive development. Right now he can't carry a line, and that's what a center needs to do. He needs time but we are also in a playoff race so things get complicated for his development. It wouldn't surprise me if they go after a player this TDL to support the middle 6.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You're going to use CF% on based on scatterings of minutes?
Good call.

AA was at 2-3-5 in 8 games and was +2 before he got hurt or left the lineup.

The only player on the Brown/Byfield/AA line who's done a thing since this garbage line was put together is AA (2-1-3 in 8 games - but an ugly -6).
Byfield is 1-0-1 and Brown is 0-0-0.

Byfield's GA/60 is 3.11 - 2nd worst on the team to Vilardi.
His GF is 1.56.
The only forward with more minutes and a worse GF/60 is Anderson.
His GA/60 is 33.33
So for every goal scored, the Kings give up 2.

Byfield can't center an NHL line.
He's terrible with the puck in his own zone.
So coach Mac puts him with perhaps the two worst defensive wingers on the team.

You've got an offensive winger who's not strong in his own zone.
An over-the-hill winger who only as PP value.
And you decide to play them together and center them with a nowhere-near ready for prime-time rookie?

That's the definition of stupid.
You want to make this about AA - but AA has been a plus player in LA when utilized correctly.

You are agreeing with me you absolute nut. Take off your moldy AA jersey and read.

Some people would rather blame everyone else than acknowledge the fact that Byfield isn't ready.
And these people play into the kind of thinking that could ruin him.

How many times do I have to say this? Each one of those guys has their own issues. The difference is one is a 19 year old rookie who you expect to make mistakes while the others are journeymen or veterans who cannot afford to make mistakes like they have. Put together it's a total shitshow. But that's the reason you see me defending Byfield so strongly here--he SHOULD be allowed to work through it and figure it out but instead he's given the worst possible combination of dudes who basically take turns slewfooting each other. Brown has no excuse for such shit irresponsible play at this point in his career, and everyone knows who AA is by now, he's a defensive liability.

There's no question I like AA.
But you can't get any damn thing out of AA if you can't get him the puck.
Jeff Carter got him the puck. Danault got him the puck.

When he's out there with Brown/Byfield, it's just a shitshow. Nobody has the puck.

You can win with AA as a scoring winger.
You can't win with Byfield as a 3C right now. And I'm not sure why people want to keep trying at the expense of his development.

AA has won nowhere ever, right now his rep as a good offensive player on a bad team is just proving more right than ever as he continually plays on a line who cannot outscore their problems. He doesn't defend and he's never learned to play a team game.

You remember early in the year, I'm rooting for him. He's likeable, I appreciate his willingness to get his nose dirty for teammates, I love his speed and he's instant offense from the bottom lines, you just need to have someone defensively responsible with him. We have TWO Selke guys but they insist on putting him with the rookie and the slowing veteran, it's just absolute insanity even before you put them on the ice together, playing them ten games straight getting the expected results is bad for everyone but they just keep going at it and pretending it will eventually work. But AA has NEVER learned to use his teammates and its' showing up more now than ever.

If he's smart, he'll go to Pittsburgh where him and Carter can play an effective straight-line game together.

 

[Reaper45]

Might be better off having Byfield playing in the AHL instead of playing on the tire fire line.

 

[kilowatt]

There's no question I like AA.
But you can't get any damn thing out of AA if you can't get him the puck.
Jeff Carter got him the puck. Danault got him the puck.

When he's out there with Brown/Byfield, it's just a shitshow. Nobody has the puck.

You can win with AA as a scoring winger.
You can't win with Byfield as a 3C right now. And I'm not sure why people want to keep trying at the expense of his development.

Given the current state of the Kings, would you rather focus on making sure AA has what he needs to get better or focus on making sure QB has what he needs to get better? I know my answer.

 

[Kudelski37]

Don't think that at all. So you add Grundstrom with Byfield and Brown and you expect QB to all of a sudden start scoring? The kid is raw and losing confidence, he is struggling with the structure and role he is in. If they keep drilling him to become a 200 foot all situational center they will stunt his offensive development. Right now he can't carry a line, and that's what a center needs to do. He needs time but we are also in a playoff race so things get complicated for his development. It wouldn't surprise me if they go after a player this TDL to support the middle 6.

I don't expect Byfield to start scoring immediately. I expect that line to generate chances and actually pressure the other team...like they did before AA came back. That alone will make the Kings a much harder team to beat and provide positive results for Byfield to improve confidence. The Kings will have even more O-zone starts. This should lead to more goals for the Kings and less goals for their opponents.

 

[AbsentMojo]

Some good arguments here. What seems definitive is that AA and QB should not be on the same line <period>. AA to be effective would need someone Carter-like. The 3rd line is a mess, has no identity, and doesnt serve any purpose as it is. The org needs to determine whether to focus on development or playoffs / playoff seeding. I believe that answer drives your decision on the 3rd line. I think being half in/half out on that focus is what lets the 3rd line twist in the wind. Regardless, blowing up the 3rd line soon is imperative.

 

[BringTheReign]

This is how the Wings developed Larkin.
They used him as a Winger in his rookie year (D+2).
Then they shifted him to center in his sophomore year.

I don't think the Kings should break up Kempe-Kopitar-Iafalo.
Nor should they break up the Moore-Danault-Arvy line
But if Byfield is not in the AHL, I think he should be lining up next to Kopitar. He could learn a lot from Kopitar, even if Kopitar is struggling out there.
He could score some goals and start feeling good about his game.

Being a 3C as a super-raw 19-year-old who's barely played any high level hockey would be hard if you had Hossa and Kane as your wingers.
Asking him to carry two defensively suspect wingers is f***ing lunacy.

I still think we should trade AA to an eastern playoff team and bring up JAD/Vilardi/Turcotte/Kupari, but I like the idea of swapping Iafallo and Byfield. Iafallo is a play driver, and he could insulate whichever of those four center the 3rd line while QB is learning from Kopi.

 

[JeanBlanc]

You can't win with Byfield as a 3C right now.

I mean, that's objectively not true. The Kings are winning with Byfield as a 3C.

He's had a couple games where he looked physically assertive. The last Arizona game wasn't good, but he's going to have ups and downs.

 

[Schrute farms]

maybe it's sample size, maybe it's being on a horrible team losing game after game.....but dang seeing JC twice this week and he seems like a total JAG out there. I'm sure the losing culture is a valid thing and going elsewhere will give him a jolt. But I don't see it being that much of a kick to come anywhere close to the value being asked on the Yotes side.

As someone else threw out there -- Forsberg + Soucy would be sooo much better.

 

[Docgonzo]

The 3rd line has been a problem all season. Beginning when it was Vilardi and Tkachev, then Grundstrom, Moore and Kupari. Adding in Andersson, Byfield, Brown, Turcotte. It’s pretty amazing some combination hasn’t worked yet.

 

[Herby]

The 3rd line has been a problem all season. Beginning when it was Vilardi and Tkachev, then Grundstrom, Moore and Kupari. Adding in Andersson, Byfield, Brown, Turcotte. It’s pretty amazing some combination hasn’t worked yet.

Yup, boy does it feel like a long-time ago when Vilardi, Lias and Tkachev were looking strong in then pre-season, unfortunately the popcorn started popping and not a single one stuck in the lineup.

The solution to this problem is looking outside the organization, either bringing in someone who can play that role , or bringing in someone to play with AK that lets Iafallo slide down to that 3rd line role. Iafallo will be the best player to play on that line this season, he would stabilize that line and make it better in all facets more than bringing up one of the younger players and hoping they don't struggle again.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The 3rd line has been a problem all season. Beginning when it was Vilardi and Tkachev, then Grundstrom, Moore and Kupari. Adding in Andersson, Byfield, Brown, Turcotte. It’s pretty amazing some combination hasn’t worked yet.

The best incarinations have almost always included Grundstrom. The other common GOOD factors have been Byfield, Turcotte, even Kupari to a degree (possession if not production, but that goes all around). Brown has been ok, but clearly drags down the numbers of those four, and almost anyone else has been unmitigated garbage.

The problem has been Grundstrom repeatedly getting benched for the flavor of the month, whether it's a not-completely-healthy Andersson, AA, or Brown. When Grundstrom leaves and AA or Andersson or Brown takes over, the line dips, and usually takes a rookie out with it, at which point they add a third element, and then it sucks completely, rinse, repeat.

In theory, Grundstrom-Byfield- X would be a strong third line and the numbers back it up. I'd love to see it as Turcotte-Byfield-Vilardi, but I'm happy with Grundstrom-Byfield-Brown, which is uber-realistic.

If anything I'm really upset for Grundstrom who keeps getting benched for literally nothing. If there's anything merit-based here, he should have a roster spot.