GDT: 2021-22 season game 51 LA Kings vs Arizona Coyotes @7:00pm 2/23/22

[Fishhead]

Id love that. But that implies scratch or waive of 22 and 23 - and the latter wont happen - unfortunately

I tend to agree with this, but TM is usually pretty stoic on the bench and tonight he was making some frustrated/pissed-off faces, especially after that 2nd one. Even though Kopitar made a terrible play that was all set up by the 3rd line's inability to get things done. Just like on the first goal. Both Brown and AA played less than Lizotte tonight, and that's way out of the ordinary.

 

[King'sPawn]

They're winning though -- that's why he won't change anything.

I would be shocked if Byfield isn't healthy scratched between now and the playoffs.

And then there will be two groups of people:
- the group who thinks McLellan is an idiot
- the group who continues to defend AA and Brown, blaming Byfield for not being good enough and for being a rookie.

This is called the Kupari Conundrum.

 

[Schmooley]

They're winning though -- that's why he won't change anything.

Yea they are finding ways right now. Can nitpick all we want but the results are there.
Anyone know their record since Byfield got called up? He has a presence out there and makes them deep down the middle. AA may be popular in the room also and these things matter though we cant see it on the ice. Guys playing for each other wins sometimes as much as talent as we can see they are right there neck and neck with a talented oilers team.

 

[Stimpythecat]

7-2-2 I believe.

 

[MBH]

Maybe you could go have that discussion with all the people on the board criticizing management for not bringing him up faster, along with Turcotte. Search variations of the phrase, "What does our management know about development that every other team in the league doesn't?"

Like I've been saying about Byfield since he was 17.
At 25, he'll be the most dominant player from his draft. But he's going to be a project. He should have been in the OHL in his D+1 year. Maybe this year two.

Instead the Kings are forcing him to play the toughest job in the NHL
10 games
1-0-1 -3
12 shots.

The haters are going to start piling on.
The whispers will start.
- Maybe we should have drafted Raymond - (hint, he's got an easy job as a winger on the top line with Detroit's best players).
The pressure will build.

Bring Byfield up slowly.
Let him do it in the AHL - let him prove it there.
Or, make him a winger on a legit line where he doesn't have to carry the mail.


Use Kupari or JAD or Vilardi as your 3C. They can't be any worse.
Use AA as a 3C.

But man...
Brown 13 games 0-4-4 -7
Byfield 10 games 1-0-1 -3
AA 7 games 2-1-3 -5 since returning.

Those are not pretty numbers. The Kings are winning. But you can't keep getting caved in on a line the way they are.

 

[Schmooley]

Like I've been saying about Byfield since he was 17.
At 25, he'll be the most dominant player from his draft. But he's going to be a project. He should have been in the OHL in his D+1 year. Maybe this year two.

Instead the Kings are forcing him to play the toughest job in the NHL
10 games
1-0-1 -3
12 shots.

The haters are going to start piling on.
The whispers will start.
- Maybe we should have drafted Raymond - (hint, he's got an easy job as a winger on the top line with Detroit's best players).
The pressure will build.

Bring Byfield up slowly.
Let him do it in the AHL - let him prove it there.
Or, make him a winger on a legit line where he doesn't have to carry the mail.


Use Kupari or JAD or Vilardi as your 3C. They can't be any worse.
Use AA as a 3C.

But man...
Brown 13 games 0-4-4 -7
Byfield 10 games 1-0-1 -3
AA 7 games 2-1-3 -5 since returning.

Those are not pretty numbers. The Kings are winning. But you can't keep getting caved in on a line the way they are.

Was this the first game you watched the kings this year? The third line has been like that pretty much all season. And every line Brown has been on was similarly dragged down and every line AA has been on was similarly dragged down. Byfield should be in the nhl learning what he can and cant do against pros. Hell be fine.

 

[MBH]

Was this the first game you watched the kings this year? The third line has been like that pretty much all season. And every line Brown has been on was similarly dragged down and every line AA has been on was similarly dragged down. Byfield should be in the nhl learning what he can and cant do against pros. Hell be fine.

AA was playing well on the Danault-Iafalo line. Then he got hurt.
What other line did AA drag down?
Sounds like you're working a narrative.

Players should not be struggling as badly as Byfield is struggling.

The good news is, this is not an emergency. Yet.
You can send him to the AHL for 40-60 games until he tears the league apart.

You've got 2-3-4 guys who can do the job at an NHL level better than him.

Byfield was always going to be a raw prospect.
The kid was raw and at the WJCs in his draft year.
He was very good in junior - but not exactly dominant. He needs to learn how to use his size and skill and speed. Even in the OHL, he was just toying with 5'9 150 pounders - doing things that were never going to work in the NHL against men.

It's not about how good Byfield is at 19.
It's about how good he'll be at 22.
And the Kings need to start thinking big picture here.

 

[Schmooley]

AA was playing well on the Danault-Iafalo line. Then he got hurt.
What other line did AA drag down?
Sounds like you're working a narrative.

He had a good game his first game back on the Danault line but mostly when he gets stretch passes and takes off from his zone early. Nothing on the cycle and offensive pressure with his teammates. And after that game Danaults numbers were the worst theyve been all season. What narrative do you mean? Theres a reason AA signed short cheap deals a couple seasons in a row now.

 

[Schmooley]

AA was playing well on the Danault-Iafalo line. Then he got hurt.
What other line did AA drag down?
Sounds like you're working a narrative.

Players should not be struggling as badly as Byfield is struggling.

The good news is, this is not an emergency. Yet.
You can send him to the AHL for 40-60 games until he tears the league apart.

You've got 2-3-4 guys who can do the job at an NHL level better than him.

Byfield was always going to be a raw prospect.
The kid was raw and at the WJCs in his draft year.
He was very good in junior - but not exactly dominant. He needs to learn how to use his size and skill and speed. Even in the OHL, he was just toying with 5'9 150 pounders - doing things that were never going to work in the NHL against men.

It's not about how good Byfield is at 19.
It's about how good he'll be at 22.
And the Kings need to start thinking big picture here.

The 2-3-4 youre saying can do a better job already were tried there. Its the same story no matter who gets puts in there. Kupari looked best there so far probably but also had the most to work with in guys like Moore and Grundstrom.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They're winning though -- that's why he won't change anything.

So, just to be clear, this is why my criticisms that are framed as haterade are actually coming from a good place.

I want the 3rd line fixed because I think this is a team that can actually cause a lot of trouble--we should make the playoffs and actually stand a chance of winning a round. We are currently running one of the best lines and one of the best d-pairings in the NHL, and being actively sabotaged by several clear things: bad minutes management of the 1st line/Kopitar, godawful special teams, and a completely terrible 3rd line. And some nights, Olli Maatta.

At least three of those things are eminently fixable. But it's like TM keeps doubling down on all of them.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

AA was playing well on the Danault-Iafalo line. Then he got hurt.
What other line did AA drag down?
Sounds like you're working a narrative.

Players should not be struggling as badly as Byfield is struggling.

The good news is, this is not an emergency. Yet.
You can send him to the AHL for 40-60 games until he tears the league apart.

You've got 2-3-4 guys who can do the job at an NHL level better than him.

Byfield was always going to be a raw prospect.
The kid was raw and at the WJCs in his draft year.
He was very good in junior - but not exactly dominant. He needs to learn how to use his size and skill and speed. Even in the OHL, he was just toying with 5'9 150 pounders - doing things that were never going to work in the NHL against men.

It's not about how good Byfield is at 19.
It's about how good he'll be at 22.
And the Kings need to start thinking big picture here.

You're right it's probably

Not AA's fault it's

Every other C he plays with's fault.

 

[Sol]

These wins mean absolutely nothing if we can’t beat the ducks or sharks.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The 2-3-4 youre saying can do a better job already were tried there. Its the same story no matter who gets puts in there. Kupari looked best there so far probably but also had the most to work with in guys like Moore and Grundstrom.

Yep, the combinations of Kupari, Moore, Grundstrom were fine even if Kupari was an offensive black hole. They were at least play driving and maybe more of a traditional '4th' line. Turcotte was added and supercharged the possession, but they still couldn't score. Brown was added and they started hurting. Guys got sent down then Byfield was added and Byfield Brown Grundstrom were heavy hitters for a game or 2 then AA was added and it all went to shit.

That line is consistently playing as less than the sum of its parts and its at its worst now. Byfield, Brown, AA are clearly the most skilled of that group I think, Turcotte has an argument, but the problem is QB and AA are oil and grease and Brown is a match. QB and AA don't work together at all; QB and Brown are at least ok. If it were up to me, obviously I'd be rolling Turcotte-QB-Vilardi, heh, but I think realistically QB-Brown-X is NECESSARY to try, AA needs a seat.

 

[Schmooley]

Yep, the combinations of Kupari, Moore, Grundstrom were fine even if Kupari was an offensive black hole. They were at least play driving and maybe more of a traditional '4th' line. Turcotte was added and supercharged the possession, but they still couldn't score. Brown was added and they started hurting. Guys got sent down then Byfield was added and Byfield Brown Grundstrom were heavy hitters for a game or 2 then AA was added and it all went to shit.

That line is consistently playing as less than the sum of its parts and its at its worst now. Byfield, Brown, AA are clearly the most skilled of that group I think, Turcotte has an argument, but the problem is QB and AA are oil and grease and Brown is a match. QB and AA don't work together at all; QB and Brown are at least ok. If it were up to me, obviously I'd be rolling Turcotte-QB-Vilardi, heh, but I think realistically QB-Brown-X is NECESSARY to try, AA needs a seat.

Would love to see a Turcotte-QB-Vilardi line or even Andersson-QB-Vilardi cause Vilardi has good chemistry with both of them. Thinking about it now it did go to shit when Brown was added. The third line had trouble putting up points like you said but they were never such a liability. Turcotte and Byfield came up for the brunt of it after Kupari got sent down because of it.

 

[Docgonzo]

Part of me understands the Brown issue, maybe management knows it’s his last year and they don’t want to embarrass him by healthy scratching him. But AA? I don’t get it, he should be an easy option to scratch and try someone else there. He won’t be back next season, course I also don’t understand why they haven’t given Vilardi another shot.

 

[kingsfan28]

Kopitar looked really bad tonight playing with two of the teams best players

The top line was really bad, especially on the first goal. Kopitar was just lagging most of the night, turn the puck over a bunch of times .Kempe went from invisible to there he is , back to invisible.

 

[kingsfan28]

I would be shocked if Byfield isn't healthy scratched between now and the playoffs.

And then there will be two groups of people:
- the group who thinks McLellan is an idiot
- the group who continues to defend AA and Brown, blaming Byfield for not being good enough and for being a rookie.

This is called the Kupari Conundrum.

Byfield has done more in his first few games than Kupari did in his 40 something games. Kapari never used any of his assets and look terrible at times trying to bring the puck out of the zone. Byfiled looks like a rookie center trying to learn the game. Tonight was one of the learning games. Him and AA more than once got on the wrong side of the puck, and too deep in the zone and it created multiple scoring chances for ARZ. AA been in the league too long to make that mistake . The last few games AA has been a no show, didn't notice once tonight except when he got burned.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

These wins mean absolutely nothing if we can’t beat the ducks or sharks.

We know, we know, we must win EVERY single game against Pacific division teams or we suck.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Byfield has done more in his first few games than Kupari did in his 40 something games. Kapari never used any of his assets and look terrible at times trying to bring the puck out of the zone. Byfiled looks like a rookie center trying to learn the game. Tonight was one of the learning games. Him and AA more than once got on the wrong side of the puck, and too deep in the zone and it created multiple scoring chances for ARZ. AA been in the league too long to make that mistake . The last few games AA has been a no show, didn't notice once tonight except when he got burned.

I feel like Byfield is constantly trying to catch up to himself...it that makes sense.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I would be shocked if Byfield isn't healthy scratched between now and the playoffs.

And then there will be two groups of people:
- the group who thinks McLellan is an idiot
- the group who continues to defend AA and Brown, blaming Byfield for not being good enough and for being a rookie.

This is called the Kupari Conundrum.

I call it the daily Drama Queen post.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I feel like Byfield is constantly trying to catch up to himself...it that makes sense.

Yep, last night, again, mixed bag, again, no issues with it, but he will find his game...

 

[Herby]

Look at Draisaitl's numbers 2014 - came up as a 19 yr old mid season Leon Draisaitl at eliteprospects.com
He's going to be fine.. he did not play well tonite - the entire line sucked

Drai was 18 in 2014, not 19. He struggled at 18 but had a half season of NHL games to learn from and get better. By age 19 he had already taken the step to 2nd liner.

 

[kingsfan]

Drai was 18 in 2014, not 19. He struggled at 18 but had a half season of NHL games to learn from and get better. By age 19 he had already taken the step to 2nd liner.

Draisaitl turned 19 on Oct. 27, 2014, so he was 19 for all but three weeks of that season. It was it 2015-2016 he stepped it up, and he turned 20 just weeks into that season.

By comparision, Byfield won't be 20 for another six months. At 19 years and six months, Draisaitl was either in the tail end of his time in Edmonton or already back in Kelowna of the WHL.

 

[Herby]

Draisaitl turned 19 on Oct. 27, 2014, so he was 19 for all but three weeks of that season. It was it 2015-2016 he stepped it up, and he turned 20 just weeks into that season.

By comparision, Byfield won't be 20 for another six months. At 19 years and six months, Draisaitl was either in the tail end of his time in Edmonton or already back in Kelowna of the WHL.

You’re right. Was going off draft year, didn’t realize he was a late birthday like Doughty.

Still think it’s best to have elite talents in the NHL in their D+1 so they can contribute by D+2

 

[kingsfan]

You’re right. Was going off draft year, didn’t realize he was a late birthday like Doughty.

Still think it’s best to have elite talents in the NHL in their D+1 so they can contribute by D+2

Normally, I agree, but I have my doubts when it comes to larger bodies. Drai is one example of an extra year helping. Thornton should have gone back to junior too, even Pat Burns said that it was a mistake to have him up so early. Kids need time to grow into their bodies.