Speculation: 2021-22 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread Part VI

[King'sPawn]

I understand Hoven and (in particular) Bernstein rub people the wrong way. I can't speak for DB, but Hoven has multiple resources, not just the Kings, who he speaks to.

FWIW, I am going to start writing 2022 draft content after the WJC. For those who like that content, I look forward to providing that for you.

 

[LAKings88]

I understand Hoven and (in particular) Bernstein rub people the wrong way. I can't speak for DB, but Hoven has multiple resources, not just the Kings, who he speaks to.

FWIW, I am going to start writing 2022 draft content after the WJC. For those who like that content, I look forward to providing that for you.

Hoven and Bernstein have been annoying with their put downs of fans and subscribers but they do have some of the best content in regards to LA. I bet it can be frustrating constantly dealing with social platforms and the many views you encounter on them. There is a noticeable smugness tho.

 

[Sparky206]

This conversation just goes back and forward from:

A) Vilardi is ruined, they should have given him a few seasons in the AHL, now they've rushed him and he'll never achieve anything

to

B) Turcotte is ruined, they haven't given him a chance at the NHL like all the other prospects, they've botched his development in the AHL and he'll never achieve anything

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The only credit I give to Hoven and Bernstein is that they are often at TSC to watch practices, so their lines are sometimes correct. Their hard-hitting journalism is akin to reading tabloids. Take them with grains of salt. Which isn't to say that there isn't thought put into things like prospect rankings, nor is it to say that these guys aren't also fans of the team, but it is to say that their word isn't gospel.

There just really isn't much Kings coverage to go around. Dillman, Hoven, Dooley. Is Gann still writing? Anyone I'm missing? I'm not even sure what it is I'd love to see, I just know I don't currently see it. Maybe I should just start writing some Kings content myself.

Which is why it's so annoying. They're one of the few sources with access, and I've generally liked Hoven's style--so for them to be throwing around the ego is insulting. I don't question their dedication or fandom, that's how the whole thing spawned after all, but they're using access to insult their audience who are more or less the same people as them. It's the guy standing next to you in a long line at a concert unironically saying 'gosh can you believe all these idiots paying money for this?'

There seem to be a LOT of newer ones popping up on twitter and some of which that are using a really good blend of video, advanced stats, and a 'fan' attitude, making generally astute observations and being open minded to feedback. I can dig a few up tomorrow if you like, but I'm hopefully guys like that will at least keep the unnecessary egos honest/in check if not take over for them entirely.

 

[kingsfan28]

Blake has no idea what he's doing, we are back to the DT days of just accumulating prospects and hoping that former players who won nothing can develop and coach them up. Just like with Frolov, Cammalleri, Gleason etc. we are expecting young players to integrate into a loser organization that has no idea how to get the best out of them. Blake is a collector, not a developer.
.

Not trying to be a smartass, but what exactly should Blake be doing? Tanking again, gutting the team of all the vets, icing an entire team of unproven, inexperienced kids? You do know AEG still owns the team and expects a somewhat competitive team right?

Also, this version of the org is nothing like when DT was in charge. Back then , a guy would have a hot couple of week in the AHL, get called up , be totally shell shocked and never recover. The development system didn't exist. DL put one in and really, Kempe is the first real high end prospect [maybe someone else, not counting goalies] to come through that, although it's taken him longer to figure out the NHL than most guys in his draft. Not sure if all this boils down to prospect envy of other teams, where their guys are in the league, while our great prospect pool of guys aren't. [shrugs]

 

[kilowatt]

This conversation just goes back and forward from:

A) Vilardi is ruined, they should have given him a few seasons in the AHL, now they've rushed him and he'll never achieve anything

to

B) Turcotte is ruined, they haven't given him a chance at the NHL like all the other prospects, they've botched his development in the AHL and he'll never achieve anything

yes exactly you get it

if i take both sides i cant be wrong

 

[King'sPawn]

Not trying to be a smartass, but what exactly should Blake be doing? Tanking again, gutting the team of all the vets, icing an entire team of unproven, inexperienced kids? You do know AEG still owns the team and expects a somewhat competitive team right?

Also, this version of the org is nothing like when DT was in charge. Back then , a guy would have a hot couple of week in the AHL, get called up , be totally shell shocked and never recover. The development system didn't exist. DL put one in and really, Kempe is the first real high end prospect [maybe someone else, not counting goalies] to come through that, although it's taken him longer to figure out the NHL than most guys in his draft. Not sure if all this boils down to prospect envy of other teams, where their guys are in the league, while our great prospect pool of guys aren't. [shrugs]

For as much as people are loving Kempe, Toffoli put up better numbers on a more defensive team.

But no, Blake shouldn't "tank." He's been with the org for several years before being a GM, though, and if he had a particular vision for his team, he should have:
1) made sure the scouts identify the qualities that matter most (taking higher "skill" players like Kupari and Vilardi sort of cement this - but if speed was a top priority, why take Vilardi over Necas?). It's truly unclear what the identity is, years later, and what's communicated with the scouts

2) make sure the developmental staff is equipped with the proper resources to develop the skills to match the identity.

As of right now, it's like Blake took what Dean built, and thought if he gave a different roof to the same foundation, he'd have made something better.

I don't even think Blake was wrong for leaning on the vets for a run at the playoffs, but he should have been able to identify the large gap in leadership from the vets to the next wave of players.

 

[Sparky206]

For as much as people are loving Kempe, Toffoli put up better numbers on a more defensive team.

But no, Blake shouldn't "tank." He's been with the org for several years before being a GM, though, and if he had a particular vision for his team, he should have:
1) made sure the scouts identify the qualities that matter most (taking higher "skill" players like Kupari and Vilardi sort of cement this - but if speed was a top priority, why take Vilardi over Necas?). It's truly unclear what the identity is, years later, and what's communicated with the scouts

2) make sure the developmental staff is equipped with the proper resources to develop the skills to match the identity.

Hes done both of these

1) They've talked since the Turcotte draft about being high on Character and leadership. Turcotte was a character pick, Bjornfot was a character pick. Lias was a leadership trade. For two drafts there I think they only strayed from high character players with the Kaliyev and Chromiack picks as they felt they were a clear BPA.

2) They hired a junior development coach (resource) and gathered all of the prospects in Ontario to turn the leagues best prospect pool into a team. Thats the identity, they are building a culture with the prospects that they will one day bring to the NHL. The kids have gone from getting flogged at the start of last season to finding their way at the end. This year they are doing well and I bet you your pants that that is one happy locker room at the moment. Next year they'll turn up and they'll expect to win, when they're down they'll expect to come back and when they loose they'll know how they'll win next time. They gave the staff all the resources they could this year to create that culture with the TJ Tynan signing and sending JAD back down for another year

Then as the kids come up to the NHL, they'll look around and see the same guys from the Ontario locker room and have the same belief in each other. Once you put those players in high pressure situations like playoffs, that belief is the difference between first round exits (Toronto) and Cup finals. Blake is playing the long game here and your average fan can't get past "He said we'd make playoffs this year, fire him"

We have eight 4th line players playing in the bottom 7. They're good 4th liners but they're out there anywhere from the 2nd to 4th line. By the time we're good, most of them will be replaced but they can't rush a winning culture and your standard fan doesn't get that

 

[King'sPawn]

Hes done both of these

1) They've talked since the Turcotte draft about being high on Character and leadership. Turcotte was a character pick, Bjornfot was a character pick. Lias was a leadership trade. For two drafts there I think they only strayed from high character players with the Kaliyev and Chromiack picks as they felt they were a clear BPA.

So, 2017 and 2018 they weren't given direction, then Blake went back to the qualities DL valued.

What's the identity? Character? How are they going to play? Can you take a look at the 2022 upcoming prospects and identify a "Rob Blake" player?

2) They hired a junior development coach (resource) and gathered all of the prospects in Ontario to turn the leagues best prospect pool into a team. Thats the identity, they are building a culture with the prospects that they will one day bring to the NHL. The kids have gone from getting flogged at the start of last season to finding their way at the end. This year they are doing well and I bet you your pants that that is one happy locker room at the moment. Next year they'll turn up and they'll expect to win, when they're down they'll expect to come back and when they loose they'll know how they'll win next time. They gave the staff all the resources they could this year to create that culture with the TJ Tynan signing and sending JAD back down for another year

Wrobo was hired LAST SEASON. Blake's on his 5th season as a GM and replacing the AHL coach is the crowning achievement?

Then as the kids come up to the NHL, they'll look around and see the same guys from the Ontario locker room and have the same belief in each other. Once you put those players in high pressure situations like playoffs, that belief is the difference between first round exits (Toronto) and Cup finals. Blake is playing the long game here and you average fan can't get past "He said we'd make playoffs this year, fire him"

We have eight 4th line players playing in the bottom 7. They're good 4th liners but they're out there anywhere from the 2nd to 4th line. By the time we're good, most of them will be replaced but they can't rush a winning culture and your standard fan doesn't get that

If the GM fails to make goals, then yes, he should get fired. Especially if he keeps failing to address what's ailing the franchise.

As for guys getting called up - yes, there is a level of familiarity among each other. More importantly, though, they need to get familiar with their roles. The scoring prospects are deployed as grinders. Instead of, you know, giving them responsibility to learn from, the message they get is "you can't handle the role your skillset is suited for. So if you're not scoring, we're just going to make you not useless as an NHL player."

Maybe Wrobo is all they need, but the development pipeline for top-6 forwards is mediocre at best with what they've produced. This is something Blake could have and should gave addressed years ago.

And fans are rightfully dissatisfied with the product and promises.

 

[Sparky206]

2019 was Blakes first draft since the tear down. Those players are 20 years old and still developing.

Much like DL, the lineup on his board for his cup winning team plan has little resemblance to the current lineup. We're almost 3 years from the Muzzin trade, there just hasn't been enough time for any sort of rebuild plan to play out. Two guys from that draft have made the NHL and are at less than 82 games, the current lineup is irrelevant to any sort of "identity" Blake is implementing

 

[Schmooley]

2019 was Blakes first draft since the tear down. Those players are 20 years old and still developing.

Much like DL, the lineup on his board for his cup winning team plan has little resemblance to the current lineup. We're almost 3 years from the Muzzin trade, there just hasn't been enough time for any sort of rebuild plan to play out. Two guys from that draft have made the NHL and are at less than 82 games, the current lineup is irrelevant to any sort of "identity" Blake is implementing

Im curious as to when Blakes cup winning roster will start taking shape?
Kopitar, Iafallo, Danault, Arvidsson and a signed Kempe all have some term on their contracts. I imagine Lizotte, Lemieux and Moore will be extended. Doughty and Roy have term on defense with Bjornfot, Anderson, and Durzi looking like mainstays.
Is this not mostly the team we will be watching for the next 2-4 years?

 

[Sparky206]

Im curious as to when Blakes cup winning roster will start taking shape?
Kopitar, Iafallo, Danault, Arvidsson and a signed Kempe all have some term on their contracts. I imagine Lizotte, Lemieux and Moore will be extended. Doughty and Roy have term on defense with Bjornfot, Anderson, and Durzi looking like mainstays.
Is this not mostly the team we will be watching for the next 2-4 years?

We have

Brown
Moore
Lemieux
Lias A
Lizzote
Grundstrom
AA

Reduce that list to one 4th line,then you have developing kids breaking out and pushing current top 6 players onto the 3rd line. But thats not going to happen this year, and probably not next year on mass and I'm sure management are aware of that because the Turcottes and Kaliyevs are only 20 years old. Look at Kempe, hes been here forever and he's only 25 and is finally a consistent top 6 player this year. Troy Terry down the road is the same. Going this route takes time but fans don't want that and its all "Its been 3 years, fire the coach, fire the GM, playoffs or bust!"

 

[Schmooley]

We have

Brown
Moore
Lemieux
Lias A
Lizzote
Grundstrom
AA

Reduce that list to one 4th line,then you have developing kids breaking out and pushing current top 6 players onto the 3rd line. But thats not going to happen this year, and probably not next year on mass and I'm sure management are aware of that because the Turcottes and Kaliyevs are only 20 years old. Look at Kempe, hes been here forever and he's only 25 and is finally a consistent top 6 player this year. Troy Terry down the road is the same. Going this route takes time but fans don't want that and its all "Its been 3 years, fire the coach, fire the GM, playoffs or bust!"

Moore, Lemieux, Lias A, Lizotte, Grundstrom will all be back right? Theres really not many spots open.
Kempe is finally a consistent top 6 player this year because hes actually playing in the top six next to future hall of famer Anze Kopitar and not next to Wagner, Lizotte, Amadio etc… Top six players will look like top six players if you put them there with good linemates. We get to see what Turcotte can do Tuesday so that will be fun. Good young players are breaking out around the league and theres no reason the Kings have to wait another 2-3 years for all of theirs.
Also the GM was the one who said playoffs and brought in players this offseason. It wasnt the fans that said or did that.

 

[King'sPawn]

2019 was Blakes first draft since the tear down. Those players are 20 years old and still developing.

Much like DL, the lineup on his board for his cup winning team plan has little resemblance to the current lineup. We're almost 3 years from the Muzzin trade, there just hasn't been enough time for any sort of rebuild plan to play out. Two guys from that draft have made the NHL and are at less than 82 games, the current lineup is irrelevant to any sort of "identity" Blake is implementing

So you can't identify players who fit into Blake's identity, and the lineup 3 years after starting the rebuild is irrelevant to an implemented identity?

The team, 3 years after DL had started the rebuild (2008-09):

Armstrong
Boyle
Brown
Calder
Doughty
Drewiske
Ersberg
Frolov
Gauthier
Greene
Handzus
Harrold
Ivanans
Johnson
Kopitar
Labarbera
Lewis
Moller
Moulson
O'Donnell
O'Sullivan
Preissing
Purcell
Quick
Quincy
Simmonds
Stoll
Westgarth
Williams
Zeiler

Bolded were on the roster the year they won the cup. Not to mention Johnson and Simmonds, who were traded for key pieces after the 2010-11 season.

Plus, the following players were drafted by DL before the 2009 draft, who ended up on the 2012 cup-winning roster:
Bernier
King
Lewis
Loktionov
Martinez
Voynov

DL had players in place by now. Mostly through trade and pieces he inherited, but an identity was pretty clearly in place.

But saying the current lineup is irrelevant to any identity Blake is implementing is either categorically false or very alarming if there are virtually zero pieces to it yet.

Again - Blake has been with the org for years prior to taking over as GM. He either:
- mistakenly thought the infrastructure was flawless and all he needed was to stockpile draft picks
- mistakenly thought he was smart enough to fix the problems on the fly and stay competitive
- knew the organization was flawed and didn't care to fix it

Either way, one playoff appearance in (approaching) 5 seasons while leaning on an aging core and failure to create a new baseline with his own players who fit his identity, is an abject failure for an executive.

 

[LAKings88]

So you can't identify players who fit into Blake's identity, and the lineup 3 years after starting the rebuild is irrelevant to an implemented identity?

The team, 3 years after DL had started the rebuild (2008-09):

Armstrong
Boyle
Brown
Calder
Doughty
Drewiske
Ersberg
Frolov
Gauthier
Greene
Handzus
Harrold
Ivanans
Johnson
Kopitar
Labarbera
Lewis
Moller
Moulson
O'Donnell
O'Sullivan
Preissing
Purcell
Quick
Quincy
Simmonds
Stoll
Westgarth
Williams
Zeiler

Bolded were on the roster the year they won the cup. Not to mention Johnson and Simmonds, who were traded for key pieces after the 2010-11 season.

Plus, the following players were drafted by DL before the 2009 draft, who ended up on the 2012 cup-winning roster:
Bernier
King
Lewis
Loktionov
Martinez
Voynov

DL had players in place by now. Mostly through trade and pieces he inherited, but an identity was pretty clearly in place.

But saying the current lineup is irrelevant to any identity Blake is implementing is either categorically false or very alarming if there are virtually zero pieces to it yet.

Again - Blake has been with the org for years prior to taking over as GM. He either:
- mistakenly thought the infrastructure was flawless and all he needed was to stockpile draft picks
- mistakenly thought he was smart enough to fix the problems on the fly and stay competitive
- knew the organization was flawed and didn't care to fix it

Either way, one playoff appearance in (approaching) 5 seasons while leaning on an aging core and failure to create a new baseline with his own players who fit his identity, is an abject failure for an executive.

Year 1: Made the playoffs. PP failed. Speedy team beat them in four games. Close because Quick stood on his head.

Year 2: Signed Kovy. Hired Desjardins. Team tanked. Drafted 5th.

Year 3: Hired TMac. Traded out more vets. Drafted 2cd with lotto bounce.

Year 4: Covid year. Not too much left to trade out. Drafted 8th.

Year 5: Covid year. Signed Danault and Arvidsson. Playoffs unlikely but in the mix. Draft ?

 

[KINGS17]

Honestly, I think 99% of Luc stuff on the boards comes from you saying this. I’m not saying you are wrong by the way or that he needs to be a savant even. Just interesting that one person on the forum saying so has so much sway. Guess I’ll take your daughter’s word on him cause I can’t refute it. I met him once. Seemed like a nice dude but I can’t make a stone cold judgement on his work ethic from that meeting.

99% from me? There are many people on this board who have met, spent some time with Luc, and know his business acumen.

Luc is very nice when he engages with the fans. That part of his job is very much in his comfort zone.

I am not making a cold judgment regarding his work ethic. I don't think he is lazy, but I also don't think he works particularly hard either. His shortcomings come in the areas of strategic thinking and the ability to organize a complex operation. He insulates himself with his old buddies from his playing days and hopes somehow they all get the job done.

I know Dean Lombardi made a lot of mistakes trying to keep the band together and win one more cup with this core, but as @bland correctly stated, Dean failed to recognize that the core of this team failed to learn a damn thing about leadership from the guys Dean brought in to mentor them. Guys like Williams, Mitchell, Richards, Scuderi, etc. did their jobs and led by example. They did force guys like Brown and Doughty out of their comfort zones, but after they left, everyone reverted back to their comfort zone.

I understand why Dean was fired, but I honestly believe when he was let go he had already surmised what needed to be done, and upper management at AEG knew his plan for the team going forward was to purge the core. Luc convinced Beckerman this crew had another run in them, and that with a laid back coach and leadership Brownie, Kopi, Dewey, and Quickie wouldn't let them down. Luc was dead wrong, and should now be fired.

I honestly believe the organization would be on a better path today, if Dean had kept his job.

 

[cyclones22]

Which is why it's so annoying. They're one of the few sources with access, and I've generally liked Hoven's style--so for them to be throwing around the ego is insulting. I don't question their dedication or fandom, that's how the whole thing spawned after all, but they're using access to insult their audience who are more or less the same people as them. It's the guy standing next to you in a long line at a concert unironically saying 'gosh can you believe all these idiots paying money for this?'

There seem to be a LOT of newer ones popping up on twitter and some of which that are using a really good blend of video, advanced stats, and a 'fan' attitude, making generally astute observations and being open minded to feedback. I can dig a few up tomorrow if you like, but I'm hopefully guys like that will at least keep the unnecessary egos honest/in check if not take over for them entirely.

I can only speculate that Hoven and Bernstein are willfully grouping the idea that fans wanting the coaching staff fired (other than Ranford, everyone else can go kick rocks) is the same as thinking the FO/ownership wanting to fire the coaching staff. It seems to me that the whole attitude is like you guys are idiots because the FO believes in this staff so we do too (because that's who butters our bread)! Of course we know that Luc and Blake are not going to fire TMc because that's a $5m (per season) mistake admission. How he even merited being the highest paid coach in the NHL at the time of signing, well...that's idiotic in and of itself.

Here's the thing, every coaching staff is going to deserve to be fired sooner or later. It's up to the FO to know when the right time is and here's a newsflash for those guys, the FO/ownership is almost always late to the party and by the time they recognize a change has to be made, the coaching staff and/or GM and President will have further damaged the franchise. So how much damage are you willing to inflict upon the future of the franchise, the young roster players and AHL prospects? I don't believe ownership is going to fire Luc and/or Blake, so we're f'd. We're not blind. We see more successful franchises handling and developing their youth differently than this regime. This regime in charge doesn't get to claim the 2012 and 2014 Cups, sorry.

Last season the Ontario Reign started 1-10-2 with the one of the youngest teams if not the youngest in the AHL. However, once they got used to each other and Wrobo's coaching, they went 16-8-3 and that's including missing key players to call-ups. The Reign's top 7 scorers last season in order: Kaliyev, Akil Thomas, Kupari, Turcotte, Byfield, Durzi and Fagemo. All of them 21 years old and younger. Durzi was 21 and Akil, Kupari and Fagemo 20. AK, Turcotte and Byfield teenagers. Kids lead that resurgence. That was promising. That is what made us excited about this season. Continued growth and responsibility and development.

Fast forward to this season's team and its top 7 scorers: Frk, Tynan, Durzi, Tkachev, JAD, Tyler Madden (who was injured most of last season), Brayden Burke. This roster now has a bunch of AAAA players (Tynan and Burke), players who should be on the big club (JAD and Vilardi) or were NHL signings which the FO doesn't seemingly want anymore but owes them money (Frk, Tkachev and Wagner). Akil Thomas just came back from injury but after good seasons from Turcotte and Fagemo last year they earned bigger roles this season. Especially with AK, Kupari and Byfield seemingly graduated. Instead, those kids are taking back seats to much older players. Hell, Gabe is still just 22 FFS. WTF is this FO thinking? The kids aren't regressing. The FO's decision-making is. Both on the big club and the farm club. This is why some of us are pissed.

 

[LAKings88]

Luc convinced Beckerman this crew had another run in them, and that with a laid back coach and leadership Brownie, Kopi, Dewey, and Quickie wouldn't let them down. Luc was dead wrong, and should now be fired.

Do you have proof this happened? Do you know for a fact Dean would have got rid of the core?

I remember the clamor on here to play younger players right before the firings. It wasn’t all roses and sunshine or completely out of the blue.

 

[Schrute farms]

Personally, i do not like Blake. I hated the idea of him being back...and then hired as GM. Having said that, i think there are WAY worse GMs we could have who would ruin this organization and the rebuild (or whatever you want to call it). Yes, he's not Stevie Y -- he's not even DL. But those are rare. More likely you have someone who screws things up. Blake lack of direction, learning on the job, lack of aggressiveness -- while conservative, it's not necessarily a bad thing. I do agree we lack organizationally (down to minors/development) a true identity and having that structure built. But seriously, it could be way worse. Like did some of you forget the 40+ years of pre-2011 Kings hockey history?!?!

 

[cyclones22]

Personally, i do not like Blake. I hated the idea of him being back...and then hired as GM. Having said that, i think there are WAY worse GMs we could have who would ruin this organization and the rebuild (or whatever you want to call it). Yes, he's not Stevie Y -- he's not even DL. But those are rare. More likely you have someone who screws things up. Blake lack of direction, learning on the job, lack of aggressiveness -- while conservative, it's not necessarily a bad thing. I do agree we lack organizationally (down to minors/development) a true identity and having that structure built. But seriously, it could be way worse. Like did some of you forget the 40+ years of pre-2011 Kings hockey history?!?!

I don't think he's the worst GM. And of course I haven't forgotten the years prior to the Cups. I've been watching the Kings since they were on Channel 9 on tape delay. Hell the reason I'm as patient as I have been is because of those Cups. But I think you used the right term in conservative. That's the problem. He seems overly conservative.

Blake has hedged his bets with all of these bridge signings. So now we are in this state of not knowing what the direction is. You have blocked the path of the youth movement on the big club and now you're doing it on the farm club because of all of the overflow players who got waived and sent down. You're going to play them in Ontario because you're paying them. Some of these guys should have been outright released because there is no benefit to the Kings by keeping them.

After the season Turcotte had last year in Ontario he should be centering the first line and be on the PP1. You should be increasing his role and responsibilities if you want him to develop. But that's not happening because you signed TJ Tynan and sent down Frk and Tkachev because you took low contract cost swings and have no room on the big club.

As a GM Blake needs to show more faith in his prospects. That or trade them away. This limbo state of not providing an optimum flight path for your top prospects is going to leave them under developed. This offseason is make-or-break. There are UFAs and RFAs on this roster who should not be re-signed. If he signs a bunch of one-year contracts again to fringe NHL players then we'll know that he's not capable of doing this job.

 

[KINGS17]

Do you have proof this happened? Do you know for a fact Dean would have got rid of the core?

I remember the clamor on here to play younger players right before the firings. It wasn’t all roses and sunshine or completely out of the blue.

I never said Dean's firing was completely out of the blue. He knew he was being challenged by Robitaille within the organization. Do you actually think Luc really snuck up on Dean?

Of course, I do not have proof. How can I prove something which I believe to be true, but for which I do not have documentation or audio recordings of actual conversations.

I do know this. Dean was not 100% sold on the idea of giving Kopitar an 8-year, $80 million contract. Hence his quote, which you can go search for, saying "they were not even in the same ballpark", when it came to contract negotiations with Kopitar. Kopitar's agent is Pat Brisson. Brisson also represented Robitaille, and is still close to him. Now, who do you think Brisson called when Dean started playing hardball on Kopitar's last deal?

This isn't a case that requires Sherlock Holmes.

Dean and I were not friends. It was more like a friendly acquaintance. When I would run into him he remembered me and was always willing to chat, and he loved to chat when he had the time. Anyone who has ever met Dean knows he will talk your ear off, if you are asking intelligent questions, and are showing an interest in what he was saying.

Let me know when you have proof of Luc's superior ability to perform as a hockey executive. The guy I had trust in helped produce three consecutive trips to the WCFs and two Stanley Cups.

 

[LAKings88]

I never said Dean's firing was completely out of the blue. He knew he was being challenged by Robitaille within the organization. Do you actually think Luc really snuck up on Dean?

Of course, I do not have proof. How can I prove something which I believe to be true, but for which I do not have documentation or audio recordings of actual conversations.

I do know this. Dean was not 100% sold on the idea of giving Kopitar an 8-year, $80 million contract. Hence his quote, which you can go search for, saying "they were not even in the same ballpark", when it came to contract negotiations with Kopitar. Kopitar's agent is Pat Brisson. Brisson also represented Robitaille, and is still close to him. Now, who do you think Brisson called when Dean started playing hardball on Kopitar's last deal?

This isn't a case that requires Sherlock Holmes.

Dean and I were not friends. It was more like a friendly acquaintance. When I would run into him he remembered me and was always willing to chat, and he loved to chat when he had the time. Anyone who has ever met Dean knows he will talk your ear off, if you are asking intelligent questions, and are showing an interest in what he was saying.

Let me know when you have proof of Luc's superior ability to perform as a hockey executive. The guy I had trust in helped produce three consecutive trips to the WCFs and two Stanley Cups.

Look. Not saying it’s rocket science here. I met Dean too. Dude crushed my hand when he shook it. I liked him and was surprised he was let go too.

What I am saying is your views are as much conjecture as mine. I’m never said Luc is great only that he is much maligned without any real proof.

There is a conspiracy theory that Luc orchestrated Dean’s firing which I can’t confirm or deny. Is it possible he was a part of it? Of course. Also someone was going to have to take over, could it be likely that was discussed with him prior? I don’t know.

Again why are we comparing Luc to Dean? Shouldn’t it be Blake more so? I know they are a tandem but Blake seems to have the reigns of the team more than the pr figurehead.

Dean’s contracts weren’t his greatest strengths. I.E. the Lucic debacle.

I honestly just get tired of hearing Luc is dumb Blake’s a surfer. It is just lazy criticism imho.

 

[Piston]

I never said Dean's firing was completely out of the blue. He knew he was being challenged by Robitaille within the organization. Do you actually think Luc really snuck up on Dean?

Of course, I do not have proof. How can I prove something which I believe to be true, but for which I do not have documentation or audio recordings of actual conversations.

I do know this. Dean was not 100% sold on the idea of giving Kopitar an 8-year, $80 million contract. Hence his quote, which you can go search for, saying "they were not even in the same ballpark", when it came to contract negotiations with Kopitar. Kopitar's agent is Pat Brisson. Brisson also represented Robitaille, and is still close to him. Now, who do you think Brisson called when Dean started playing hardball on Kopitar's last deal?

This isn't a case that requires Sherlock Holmes.

Dean and I were not friends. It was more like a friendly acquaintance. When I would run into him he remembered me and was always willing to chat, and he loved to chat when he had the time. Anyone who has ever met Dean knows he will talk your ear off, if you are asking intelligent questions, and are showing an interest in what he was saying.

Let me know when you have proof of Luc's superior ability to perform as a hockey executive. The guy I had trust in helped produce three consecutive trips to the WCFs and two Stanley Cups.

Amen, at the end of the day, it is results that matter. DL, for all his faults, produced them. Luc is where the buck stops in this organization now, by his choice, and he has produced nothing. I'm willing to be a little patient, see what some of our top picks can do. But, I am not satisfied seeing them run guys with no future on the team like AA, Lizotte, Maata and even Brown out there on a consistent basis in a vain attempt to eke into the playoffs while the future of the organization rusts in the press box, on the 4th line or in a reduced role in Ontario. And, if Kopitar and Doughty don't like it, they can always request a trade.

 

[KingsFan7824]

99% from me? There are many people on this board who have met, spent some time with Luc, and know his business acumen.

Luc is very nice when he engages with the fans. That part of his job is very much in his comfort zone.

I am not making a cold judgment regarding his work ethic. I don't think he is lazy, but I also don't think he works particularly hard either. His shortcomings come in the areas of strategic thinking and the ability to organize a complex operation. He insulates himself with his old buddies from his playing days and hopes somehow they all get the job done.

I know Dean Lombardi made a lot of mistakes trying to keep the band together and win one more cup with this core, but as @bland correctly stated, Dean failed to recognize that the core of this team failed to learn a damn thing about leadership from the guys Dean brought in to mentor them. Guys like Williams, Mitchell, Richards, Scuderi, etc. did their jobs and led by example. They did force guys like Brown and Doughty out of their comfort zones, but after they left, everyone reverted back to their comfort zone.

I understand why Dean was fired, but I honestly believe when he was let go he had already surmised what needed to be done, and upper management at AEG knew his plan for the team going forward was to purge the core. Luc convinced Beckerman this crew had another run in them, and that with a laid back coach and leadership Brownie, Kopi, Dewey, and Quickie wouldn't let them down. Luc was dead wrong, and should now be fired.

I honestly believe the organization would be on a better path today, if Dean had kept his job.

Purge the core. When? Quick wasn't going anywhere with that contract. Bishop was a UFA to be on top of that. Brown wasn't going anywhere with that production. DL lost his chance to get rid of Kopitar a year before he was fired. Not that he was getting rid of him in an all in 15-16 season. Doughty was DL's golden pick.

What core was he about to purge? Because it wasn't the Kings core.

 

[LAKings88]

There seems to be two sides to every coin.

1-Play the kids in positions of strength.
2-Maybe the kids just aren’t ready

My observation:
Kaliyev and Kupari are getting NHL action in prominent roles currently. Both had good AHL seasons and were moved up. Kaliyev is on a solid line that has chemistry. He is still being sheltered away from top line defense. He is getting pp1 time. Many won’t be happy until he is on Kopi’s wing scoring 70 goals.

Byfield would have been on the team if not for injury.

1-Why sign these vets that take jobs away from kids
2-Why didn’t kids take jobs away from vets

Arvidsson/Danault are considered upgrades. Arvidsson is on a short deal. Danault will be effective longer and imho is worth the money. Hopefully he will move down the lineup. I think he has made them a better team capable of playing against those better teams in the league. I do think the goal is playoffs. That baptism of just pushing could be good for the development of many. Even Iaffalo and Kempe.

I’m guessing they want the Reign to have better leadership examples and a long playoff run as well. Its my only conclusion for bringing in the vets they did. Tkachev was a gamble who has the offense but not overall game. They sent him down for that instead of cutting him loose because the potential is there. Not sure if he will stick.

Wagner was always a plug and shouldn’t have been resigned. Frk seems like he should of had the chance over AA. Tynan was MVP in the AHL and looked pedestrian at best in his few games. Frk has that AHLer tag on him unfortunately.