Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster discussion

[DryIslandBartender]

It's that kind of mentality that ruins relationships. You don't trade one of the biggest stars that this organization has ever had (who also led the team to the promise land TWICE) just to get unknown pieces back. It is a dumb idea and you should feel bad for even bringing that into discussion. The only time i want to see Kopitar traded is if he himself wants out, suddenly becomes a complete drag, or the team remains in the bottom 5 at the very end of his career. If it's a problem to have Byfield play on the 3rd or 4th line when he has demonstrated to be a star, then that is a good problem that I want to witness. Also, if you have 3 star centers, I can guarantee you that no is going to see the 3rd line as an actual "3rd line".

You realize Kopitar hasn’t “led” the Kings anywhere in 7-8 years? So the sentimental arguments don’t work, nobody wanted to watch Gretzky lose every night in the mid 90s.

“Yeah but Kopi had bums as linemates!”

So why are we for tying up assets and cap space on three centers which limit the talent they can play with? Makes no sense. You have to assume there will be a lot of talent headed to Buffalo for Eichel. Kaliyev, Thomas etc.

 

[Rusty Batch]

You realize Kopitar hasn’t “led” the Kings anywhere in 7-8 years? So the sentimental arguments don’t work, nobody wanted to watch Gretzky lose every night in the mid 90s.

“Yeah but Kopi had bums as linemates!”

So why are we for tying up assets and cap space on three centers which limit the talent they can play with? Makes no sense. You have to assume there will be a lot of talent headed to Buffalo for Eichel. Kaliyev, Thomas etc.

Kings don't even spend to the cap. They are actively trying to lose but even if you ignored the fact that they don't spend to the cap. Then you might first want to blame the dead cap hits of Mike Richards, Dion Phaneuf, Ilya Kovalchuck, etc... Blaming Kopitar and his contract for why our team is bad is the most ignorant opinion.

If you want to blame Kopitar for anything blame him for giving us the 8th pick in the draft instead of the first pick which this tanking roster deserved.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Kopitar's contract is up the same year as Mathews. Just in case the Kings need a lot of cap space that summer.

Not sure this is the best time to post this with the not wanting a 10 spot on the 3C. Eichel or Laine would be nice. They both have risk & will cost 7-10M & be expensive asset wise. What if the Blake goes for Duchene & Ekholm as a package deal. Get a cheap price, asset wise, on Ekholm for taking Duchene's contract. Keep the good prospects. Duchene can play LW or Center if one of the rookies needs a break next year for a few games. Perfect dumpster dive with upside!

 

[KingsFan7824]

Trading Kopitar only makes sense if you have Eichel/Byfield as your two centers for the next decade and possibly have Vilardi or Turcotte as your #3 depending how an Eichel trade pans out. I don’t think it’ll cost an arm and a leg to get Eichel given his injury concerns and the recent tiffs with management in Buffalo.

And you're willingly bringing in a $10m cap hit with injury concerns for the next 5 years?

Give me the return on Kopitar, and then I'd have a better read on it. Without details, I'm going to use what I think the return would be, and it doesn't involve recouping any assets lost in getting Eichel. 34 year old's with $10m hits for 3 years don't bring that back. I'd be surprised if the Kings were to retain much. If it was a year, ok, but it's 3, and that's a long time.

If you go for Eichel, you're trying to win today, and I don't see how they deal Kopitar in that scenario. The whole point would be to help Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, and Quick again. If that's not the idea, then don't take on the injury/contract risk of Eichel. Just keep building slowly.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Kopitar's contract is up the same year as Mathews. Just in case the Kings need a lot of cap space that summer.

Not sure this is the best time to post this with the not wanting a 10 spot on the 3C. Eichel or Laine would be nice. They both have risk & will cost 7-10M & be expensive asset wise. What if the Blake goes for Duchene & Ekholm as a package deal. Get a cheap price, asset wise, on Ekholm for taking Duchene's contract. Keep the good prospects. Duchene can play LW or Center if one of the rookies needs a break next year for a few games. Perfect dumpster dive with upside!

Ekholm is 31, and a UFA after next year, and that's worth 5 years of Duchene's contract?

 

[FSL KINGS]

Ekholm is 31, and a UFA after next year, and that's worth 5 years of Duchene's contract?

Obviously you'd try & extend Ekholm. Age isnt ideal, but there aren't a lot of options for left defense right now.

Duchene might be a bit over paid. Kings have the cap space to deal with that though. Also it's Duchene + the assets the Kings would give up for a top6 player for taking someone slightly overpaid. Just an idea.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Obviously you'd try & extend Ekholm. Age isnt ideal, but there aren't a lot of options for left defense right now.

Duchene might be a bit over paid. Kings have the cap space to deal with that though. Also it's Duchene + the assets the Kings would give up for a top6 player for taking someone slightly overpaid. Just an idea.

I'd rather just pay for Ekholm than take on Duchene's contract. If that means no Ekholm, that's ok, because the Preds have been better than the Kings, and the Preds haven't done anything in closing in on half a decade. Ekholm isn't the difference for the Kings. He'll be near his mid 30's when the Kings do anything, and especially if Duchene's contract is hindering the process.

You don't take on that stupid contract to get an old guy. If Ekholm was 25, then maaaybe, but 31 and needing a new UFA contract? No thanks.

 

[KingTech]

Why would they?

So that we actually have top 6 talent playing in the top 6 maybe

 

[Martyros]

You realize Kopitar hasn’t “led” the Kings anywhere in 7-8 years? So the sentimental arguments don’t work, nobody wanted to watch Gretzky lose every night in the mid 90s.

“Yeah but Kopi had bums as linemates!”

So why are we for tying up assets and cap space on three centers which limit the talent they can play with? Makes no sense. You have to assume there will be a lot of talent headed to Buffalo for Eichel. Kaliyev, Thomas etc.

You realize that you can't compare Kopitar to Gretzky? Kopitar was drafted by this franchise, grew up with the organization, helped bring in 2 (almost 3) championship teams. He's like Kobe to the Kings. As much as you want to treat it like business, towards certain players, it's more than that.

 

[johnjm22]

The Kings are on track to be one of the worst teams in the league next season. Let's trade for Duchene or Laine. That makes a lot of sense.

Maybe we can finish 25th overall instead of 28th.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

You realize that you can't compare Kopitar to Gretzky? Kopitar was drafted by this franchise, grew up with the organization, helped bring in 2 (almost 3) championship teams. He's like Kobe to the Kings. As much as you want to treat it like business, towards certain players, it's more than that.

No comparison at all. Just making the point that it doesn’t matter if it’s Kobe, Gretzky playing etc. people don’t care in LA unless you win. Lebron was just getting roasted on the airwaves for the Lakers putrid title defense etc.

Bottom line is. If the Kings are acquiring Eichel, it should be time to move on from Kopitar and build a contending team for the next decade.

 

[Lt Dan]

The Kings are on track to be one of the worst teams in the league next season. Let's trade for Duchene or Laine. That makes a lot of sense.

Maybe we can finish 25th overall instead of 28th.

The Kings just finished 25th overall. they should finish higher next season just based on player growth and prospects.

 

[KingsFan7824]

No comparison at all. Just making the point that it doesn’t matter if it’s Kobe, Gretzky playing etc. people don’t care in LA unless you win. Lebron was just getting roasted on the airwaves for the Lakers putrid title defense etc.

Bottom line is. If the Kings are acquiring Eichel, it should be time to move on from Kopitar and build a contending team for the next decade.

If that's the only possibility once they get Eichel, then they're not getting Eichel, because it very likely wouldn't be worth the return to trade Kopitar.

 

[kilowatt]

The Kings just finished 25th overall. they should finish higher next season just based on player growth and prospects.

Unless Kopitar, Doughty, and Brown regress, which isn't impossible given their ages. They were the three best players for LA last season and it wasn't close.

 

[kinghock]

Unless Kopitar, Doughty, and Brown regress, which isn't impossible given their ages. They were the three best players for LA last season and it wasn't close.

Last year Kopitar and Brown were looking good against teams with slow first line players.
They were not so good against teams with really fast first line players.
I imagine it is going to be only worse next year…

 

[Mats26]

There is 0% chance Kopitar gets traded in the next 2 years. His game will need to really fall off or Byfeild explodes next season....both unlikely.
Year 3 is his UFA year. All our high end prospects need new contracts, so any trade will depend on our cap space, Byfeild's progression, Kopitar's play and his future with us and the trade market.
I could see a scenario where Byfeild's play takes off in year 3 and Kopitar's name is among the trade rumors at the TDL as a UFA. If he stays and resigns (like Thorton) 1 years deals to play 2/3C, I am fine with it if his cap hit isn't impeding to fix holes elsewhere.

The only reason to trade Kopitar now is that you have a young replacement 1C ready to take over. As of today we don't.

 

[johnjm22]

The Kings just finished 25th overall. they should finish higher next season just based on player growth and prospects.

I can see the growth happening in 22/23. But next season? No way.

They missed being 28th in the league by 1 point. They were actually worse this season than they were the previous season. They also got worse as the season went on.

Their 3 most productive players Kopitar (33), Brown (35), Doughty (30), will all be a year older next season.

They have a mediocre-at-best coach who the players are already starting to tune out and the goaltending situation is worse than we thought.

This is why the idea of trying to improve this team is so insane. Throwing away assets to try a make a bottom ~5 team into a black hole team makes no sense.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I can see the growth happening in 22/23. But next season? No way.

They missed being 28th in the league by 1 point. They were actually worse this season than they were the previous season. They also got worse as the season went on.

Their 3 most productive players Kopitar (33), Brown (35), Doughty (30), will all be a year older next season.

They have a mediocre-at-best coach who the players are already starting to tune out and the goaltending situation is worse than we thought.

This is why the idea of trying to improve this team is so insane. Throwing away assets to try a make a bottom ~5 team into a black hole team makes no sense.

It depends on how you look at it. OT and the SO are too random. The point earned, or the point missed, do count. However, Colorado was 4-3 in OT this year. Chicago was 7-5, and NJ was 4-2. Buffalo was 4-3 in the SO this year, while Vegas was 1-2.

If you look at just regulation records, the Kings have improved each of the last 2 years, if ever so slightly. There have been a decreasing amount of GP over the last 2 years, so if the Kings had had to play those extra 40 games, they're probably going to lose a lot of them, but on an average per game:

22-42-18 in regulation in 18-19. That's 26.8% for wins per GP, and a .756 pt%.
21-35-14 in regulation in 19-20. That's 30.0% for wins per GP, and a .800 pt%.
19-28-9 in regulation in 20-21. That's 33.9% for wins per GP, and a .839 pt%.

Again, nothing very good any way you slice it. Not only a boring last 3 years, but a demoralizing last 3 years. I've come to not care about OT or SO records though. The Kings were 12-4 in OT in 16-17, and we know what that team was. The points count, but if you're a good team, nothing that happens after regulation in the regular season should matter.

Not that whatever small numerical improvements they have means the Kings are close to doing anything. Technically they were somewhat better though. They just really sucked 3v3. So did Montreal. Not quite as hard, but 3-8 isn't great.

 

[tomd]

I can see the growth happening in 22/23. But next season? No way.

They missed being 28th in the league by 1 point. They were actually worse this season than they were the previous season. They also got worse as the season went on.

Their 3 most productive players Kopitar (33), Brown (35), Doughty (30), will all be a year older next season.

They have a mediocre-at-best coach who the players are already starting to tune out and the goaltending situation is worse than we thought.

This is why the idea of trying to improve this team is so insane. Throwing away assets to try a make a bottom ~5 team into a black hole team makes no sense.

Didn't you see this coming 2.5 years ago when they started a rebuild while keeping their 5 highest paid veteran players? The current situation is as surprising as night following day.

Like it or not they are going to try to improve over the summer...maybe in a significant way. They still might finish in the bottom 5 next year anyway which will be the end of Blake. More likely they'll finish in the black hole or squeak into the 3rd playoff spot. Those are the options and you just need to accept them.

 

[Lt Dan]

I can see the growth happening in 22/23. But next season? No way.

They missed being 28th in the league by 1 point. They were actually worse this season than they were the previous season. They also got worse as the season went on.

They also were 7 wins out of a playoff spot. In the second toughest division where we had to play Colorado, Minny, Vegas, and Martin Jones for half our games.
7 wins. In a season where

MacDermid played 28 games

We lost our two top 4 defensemen on freak plays for good stretches.

MacDermid played 28 games

Frk was hurt the entire season.

Our young defense, took leaps while the older players held us back, except Doughty. Maata sucked, MacDermid played 28 games, and guys like Alt, Wolanin, and MacDermid played too many games.

Their 3 most productive players Kopitar (33), Brown (35), Doughty (30), will all be a year older next season.

Only Brown worries me here. Doughty is still near his prime and Kopitar is a fine wine.

They have a mediocre-at-best coach who the players are already starting to tune out and the goaltending situation is worse than we thought.

No argument here. I think next season will be TMac's last. He is Marc Crawford

This is why the idea of trying to improve this team is so insane. Throwing away assets to try a make a bottom ~5 team into a black hole team makes no sense.

We don't have to give away the assets that we normally would.
We have a ton of cap space. There will be free agents hitting the market that normally wouldn't. Teams will also have to trade guys cheaper than usual because of the cap crunch.

I think we will see a young forward or two get some games in next year.

It is 2009. It's time to add a Scuderi and Smyth and raise the expectations a little.

 

[johnjm22]

It depends on how you look at it. OT and the SO are too random. The point earned, or the point missed, do count. However, Colorado was 4-3 in OT this year. Chicago was 7-5, and NJ was 4-2. Buffalo was 4-3 in the SO this year, while Vegas was 1-2.

If you look at just regulation records, the Kings have improved each of the last 2 years, if ever so slightly. There have been a decreasing amount of GP over the last 2 years, so if the Kings had had to play those extra 40 games, they're probably going to lose a lot of them, but on an average per game:

22-42-18 in regulation in 18-19. That's 26.8% for wins per GP, and a .756 pt%.
21-35-14 in regulation in 19-20. That's 30.0% for wins per GP, and a .800 pt%.
19-28-9 in regulation in 20-21. That's 33.9% for wins per GP, and a .839 pt%.

Again, nothing very good any way you slice it. Not only a boring last 3 years, but a demoralizing last 3 years. I've come to not care about OT or SO records though. The Kings were 12-4 in OT in 16-17, and we know what that team was. The points count, but if you're a good team, nothing that happens after regulation in the regular season should matter.

Not that whatever small numerical improvements they have means the Kings are close to doing anything. Technically they were somewhat better though. They just really sucked 3v3. So did Montreal. Not quite as hard, but 3-8 isn't great.

Not sure how you're arriving at those numbers.

Regulation Point Percentages:
19/20: .400 (66pt pace over 82gp)
20/21: .419 (69pt pace over 82gp)

So a 0.019 improvement during regulation.

3v3 and S.O. are special teams. PP is also special teams. And just like 3v3 and S.O., the PP is streaky year to year.

So if you going to remove 3v3 and SO, you should probably factor in PP variance as well. When you do, it will probably more than account for that .019 point percentage.

Early in the season the Kings were largely reliant on a hot PP, just like teams can be reliant on hot 3v3/SO play.

At least in 19/20 the team actually improved towards the end of the season. In 20/21 the Kings actually got worse as the season progressed.

The last two months of this season the Kings Point Percentage was a pathetic .341. Great progress.

 

[johnjm22]

Didn't you see this coming 2.5 years ago when they started a rebuild while keeping their 5 highest paid veteran players? The current situation is as surprising as night following day.

Yes. This is expected. I'm not complaining.

Like it or not they are going to try to improve over the summer...maybe in a significant way. They still might finish in the bottom 5 next year anyway which will be the end of Blake. More likely they'll finish in the black hole or squeak into the 3rd playoff spot. Those are the options and you just need to accept them.

Wait. So you think if they make moves, the best we can hope for is a middle-pack non-contending team? Yet you still want them to try and do it?

I was under the impression you thought they could still contend if they made moves. If you don't think they can contend, it's baffleing to me that you want to abort the rebuild.

You might be the first person I've ever seen who is actually advocating for the black hole.

 

[tomd]

Yes. This is expected. I'm not complaining.


Wait. So you think if they make moves, the best we can hope for is a middle-pack non-contending team? Yet you still want them to try and do it?

I was under the impression you thought they could still contend if they made moves. If you don't think they can contend, it's baffleing to me that you want to abort the rebuild.

You might be the first person I've ever seen who is actually advocating for the black hole.

Well it depends on how aggressive they are and Blake has not shown an aggressive streak yet. As such, I'm not advocating for the black hole, I am expecting it. If they get two legitimate top 6 forwards and a top 4 LHD then the team could be pretty competitive and might surprise people. We'll see if Blake can pull that off and at what price.

As for the aborted rebuild, it was never going to happen the way you envisioned it. Blake put them into this situation and now Blake has to get them out of it. Waiting for the prospects to mature is no longer an option. Paradoxically, the more successful Blake is this summer in bringing in NHL talent, the more the people here on HF boards will hate what he is doing. Going to be interesting indeed either way.

 

[johnjm22]

Well it depends on how aggressive they are and Blake has not shown an aggressive streak yet. As such, I'm not advocating for the black hole, I am expecting it. If they get two legitimate top 6 forwards and a top 4 LHD then the team could be pretty competitive and might surprise people. We'll see if Blake can pull that off and at what price.

As for the aborted rebuild, it was never going to happen the way you envisioned it. Blake put them into this situation and now Blake has to get them out of it. Waiting for the prospects to mature is no longer an option. Paradoxically, the more successful Blake is this summer in bringing in NHL talent, the more the people here on HF boards will hate what he is doing. Going to be interesting indeed either way.

Of course it's an option. I don't know if that's what they'll do, but I think they should just wait.

If they hold on to this year's 1st round pick, it will be the 5th straight draft of pick hoarding. Usually it takes about 8 drafts or so for a rebuild.

If the Kings stand pat, there's a good chance they'll be picking one of Savoie/Lambert/Wright in the summer of 2022. I hope they don't throw away that opportunity in a pointless attempt to get back to the black hole.

 

[tomd]

Of course it's an option. I don't know if that's what they'll do, but I think they should just wait.

If they hold on to this year's 1st round pick, it will be the 5th straight draft of pick hoarding. Usually it takes about 8 drafts or so for a rebuild.

If the Kings stand pat, there's a good chance they'll be picking one of Savoie/Lambert/Wright in the summer of 2022. I hope they don't throw away that opportunity in a pointless attempt to get back to the black hole.

To have a decent chance at one of the top 3 prospects in 2022 they'd need to finish DFL or DFL+1. They aren't going to do that voluntarily. Organization-wide jobs and money are on the line for a better finish in 21-22.

The worst case scenario is obviously that they expend a lot of capital this summer in the form of prospects, picks, and cap and it still doesn't move the needle. That is an entirely possible outcome if Blake gets the wrong players or the team chemistry just doesn't gel. I guess you can root for that outcome if getting one of the top 3 picks next year is that important to you.