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Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster discussion part V

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DoktorJeep said:
Sounds like a forward will be recalled from Ontario with the Mayor musing that Turcotte or Tkachev are the leading candidates.

My guess is it’s Tkachev and he’ll replace Lias in the lineup on the third line.
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I would guess Tkachev will be given another shot before going back to Russia. Hopefully he helps the shit PP.
I would also send Kupari down for Vilardi.
 
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bland said:
Not a fan of making the top kids bunt instead of swinging for the fences, eh?

I am not as high on Kaliyev as most here, but man, this organization just doesn't seem to realize that kids need to work on their strengths as much as their weaknesses. No point in teaching him how to play away from the puck BEFORE letting him learn how to score first. A neutered, well-rounded Kaliyev is less valuable than a one-dimensional confident Kaliyev. The rest of the game can be learned on the job with experience.
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It's, again, unfortunately at the cost of me sounding like I'm saying "I told you so." I just cannot emphasize this point enough. For all the talks about trading away Kopitar, Carter, etc for high picks, those high picks become useless until it's shown the offensive ability of high-end prospects can be cultivated. Because if you can't develop your young forwards into offensive weapons, you essentially have zero talent to work with and compete with. The only way to recover that talent? Overpay. In a cap league, that means utilizing finite cap space or trading away valuable young players you have, that you can't develop, so they can succeed elsewhere and keep you afloat.

This is/was the Edmonton/Buffalo model, where literally the only way the team will succeed is if they get a player who can succeed despite the development team. So, if you're counting on McDavid/Eichel to save you, you're in trouble.

Kaliyev's not a bad player, but as you pointed out, his offensive ability is being sacrificed to learn to play defense (on a team that is also lacking structure on defense). His potential is being diminished. Confidence is a huge thing, especially in young players. They need to learn to make mistakes so they can get better. That's one of the key qualities Sutter instilled in the Kings when he joined.
 
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LMAO looking at the calendar for December - it's quite possible we don't win another game in 2021.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
I have never been as disillusioned with this franchise as I am today.
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I am a well-known Blake "hater" but I still liked the moves this off season. Of course, that assumed a certain handling of the roster during the season by Blake and T-Mac which was why I probably should have been on board the tank train again. Hard to be on board with that when you are paying for seats and have been away for a year and a half.

I don't think that the roster is as unskilled or void of talent like some on here but it is so lacking in character and drive. Everyone is talented at the NHL level and there aren't many that can just get by on sheer talent. This team is happy to not finish checks and just play pick-up hockey. It's been this way for far too long so where does it start? Is it the old core? It's up to the players to play a certain way so blame them but you've also got to blame Bluc since there is no accountability.

We are witness to this franchise being run by the players Lombardi didn't want here when he was building his culture: the dudes that are simply happy to be here so they can live at the beach. I mean, Lombardi came in and the first thing he was all about was changing the culture and what happens...he does that but is ultimately fired so they can go back to the old culture! It's f***ing wild.

This isn't a "should have kept DL" thing at all but it is shaping up like what many of us feared when Bluc took over. And if anyone wants to defend Blake with the "top prospect pool" thing, please don't. You have to be special ed if you can't put together a Top 5 pool after five years of keeping all your picks, trading away all your good players for more picks and finishing at or near the bottom of the league. Any of us could have just taken the top ranked guy by Central Scouting for every Kings pick Blake has made and we would be sitting on a Top 5 pool.
 
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King'sPawn said:
It's, again, unfortunately at the cost of me sounding like I'm saying "I told you so." I just cannot emphasize this point enough. For all the talks about trading away Kopitar, Carter, etc for high picks, those high picks become useless until it's shown the offensive ability of high-end prospects can be cultivated. Because if you can't develop your young forwards into offensive weapons, you essentially have zero talent to work with and compete with. The only way to recover that talent? Overpay. In a cap league, that means utilizing finite cap space or trading away valuable young players you have, that you can't develop, so they can succeed elsewhere and keep you afloat.

This is/was the Edmonton/Buffalo model, where literally the only way the team will succeed is if they get a player who can succeed despite the development team. So, if you're counting on McDavid/Eichel to save you, you're in trouble.

Kaliyev's not a bad player, but as you pointed out, his offensive ability is being sacrificed to learn to play defense (on a team that is also lacking structure on defense). His potential is being diminished. Confidence is a huge thing, especially in young players. They need to learn to make mistakes so they can get better. That's one of the key qualities Sutter instilled in the Kings when he joined.
Click to expand...

The folks who have been trying to stress positivity here really need to take a few steps back and look at the big picture and not get lost in the minutiae of small moments and fancy data.

Some of the trees are doing okay, but the forest is ****ed. This is an unhealthy organization with a poorly designed and executed plan. Two different ideas are available, and neither is being given enough care to succeed, just both ends being played against each other where the vets want to win now but aren't given enough to do so, and the kids aren't being allowed to thrive on ability while losing and growing as they learn on the job.

Instead we have a situation where nobody is getting what they need. The older vets are too complacent, the prime players are frustrated, and the youth isn't being put in position to grow.


There has been no progress under Blake, zero, none. Anybody can make picks. Literally anybody. No one is moving in a positive direction and the only way truly forward is to suffer now even if it upsets the sacred cows.

I have been pounding this drum now for six years. They gave retirement deals to too many of the wrong people. Now they have too much influence on the decision making - even if it isn't overt.
 
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The Clague thing is a bit surprising. The only two things I can think of is Clague might not be a fit in the dressing room or they think Maatta adds size to our pathetically small back end. Plus it’s hard to eat a 3 million dollar contract.

another wonderful day of being a Kings fan.

Fire Todd
 
Clague was probably my favorite D prospect not on the roster, but....

I like Clague, but he just wasn't that good and never stepped up.
I like Durzi, but he's just not that good and is an absolute tire fire in his own end and will get exploited. He really should be a winger.
I like Andersson, but he's not that good. Gets lost a lot and has a limited skill set.
I like Moore, but he's not that good. Or at least I don't think he is, because he's fallen apart.
I like Kupari, but he doesn't belong in the NHL at all right now. He's not even as good as Craig Johnson right now.
Maatta has been more solid than all of the above, that's saying something because he's not that good.


Those six shouldn't be in our lineup right now as they either don't fit or aren't showing anything. They are changing from prospects into placeholders, they literally all run around the ice. Brown is subpar at this point in his career, but at least he gets involved and makes cohesive plays, good or bad.

On the bright side, Kaliyev is always involved even though he's not finishing. He knows where to go, as do Grundstrom and Lemieux. This team isn't terrible. The top two lines are playing pretty well. Anderson and Bjornfot are making mistakes, but there is a method to them. They aren't lost out there, just inexperienced. What we need is about 5 or 6 more guys to step up and play like NHL'ers. Some of those close losses will turn into close wins and the team will make some progress. Some of that will absolutely come from our pool, but it's about time to move some prospects to shore up the D and give some others a shot to see what they have.
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
They just want it to be a playoff team in any manner.

That's why I want them gone now--before we see some job saving trade bullshit
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Unless we land that top pairing young left shot Dman to pair with Drew. When was the last time we had a legit top pair Dman to play with our star player?
 
Of the Kings picks made over the years, I've never been a fan of Kupari and Clague. I scouted both in their draft years (Kupari D-1 too) and was pretty disappointed with the Kupari pick when it was made, Clague too but that's a 2nd round pick so not as bad. In Clague I saw a mobile, smooth, smart defenseman who can move pucks but leaves you lukewarm all things considered, he was average defensively, with an average at best physicality and so-so compete level, despite the ability to move pucks I never felt like he was a big offensive weapon. Smooth and low panic threshold but not much there in energy. Average at best defensively, lacking a real physical game, just ok on the compete level. Moves pucks but not an offensive difference-maker. That's usually a #5-#7 D quality that doesn't provide much in terms of identity or "added value" to the team. That's what I saw in his draft year, others who saw more of him recently might see it differently if his game evolved.

Kupari was a case of tools>toolbox. Great skater, good hands, good size. Doesn't always know what to do with it or what his game is exactly. Willing to be responsible defensively. Not a consistent top 6 playmaking quality or consistent offensive reads at that level, even if physical tools and skill is good enough. Average hockey IQ. At best, he turns into another midle six toolsy guy with questionable consistency, another one of those who is meh when you think of "added value" or identity and I think that is best case scenario, I doubt he's actually going to turn into a 2nd line player. Not a bad kid, but I wouldn't use a first rounder on him. Nothing wrong with getting a 3rd liner with a mid or late 1st but it needs to be an "added value" 3rd liner for a 1st round pick to have value imo. Again, based on his draft-1 and draft year, perhaps he has evolved and those who see more of him recently might see it differently now.

Personally, I doubt either one stays with the Kings for long. I think Kings Europe scouting has gotten better, but it still has plenty of room for improvement.
 
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I can't find anything official about Clague so I'm hoping Hoven is wrong. It just doesn't make sense.
 
I think i'd jettison koala boy to start with.

Would ownership pony up pay outs and the cost of a new hiring if they've already lost dollars over covid?
 
funky said:
The Clague thing is a bit surprising. The only two things I can think of is Clague might not be a fit in the dressing room or they think Maatta adds size to our pathetically small back end. Plus it’s hard to eat a 3 million dollar contract.

another wonderful day of being a Kings fan.

Fire Todd
Click to expand...


They are eating a 3m dollar contract regardless. Its bad management.
 
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Fishhead said:
Clague was probably my favorite D prospect not on the roster, but....

I like Clague, but he just wasn't that good and never stepped up.
I like Durzi, but he's just not that good and is an absolute tire fire in his own end and will get exploited. He really should be a winger.
I like Andersson, but he's not that good. Gets lost a lot and has a limited skill set.
I like Moore, but he's not that good. Or at least I don't think he is, because he's fallen apart.
I like Kupari, but he doesn't belong in the NHL at all right now. He's not even as good as Craig Johnson right now.
Maatta has been more solid than all of the above, that's saying something because he's not that good.


Those six shouldn't be in our lineup right now as they either don't fit or aren't showing anything. They are changing from prospects into placeholders, they literally all run around the ice. Brown is subpar at this point in his career, but at least he gets involved and makes cohesive plays, good or bad.

On the bright side, Kaliyev is always involved even though he's not finishing. He knows where to go, as do Grundstrom and Lemieux. This team isn't terrible. The top two lines are playing pretty well. Anderson and Bjornfot are making mistakes, but there is a method to them. They aren't lost out there, just inexperienced. What we need is about 5 or 6 more guys to step up and play like NHL'ers. Some of those close losses will turn into close wins and the team will make some progress. Some of that will absolutely come from our pool, but it's about time to move some prospects to shore up the D and give some others a shot to see what they have.
Click to expand...

See, this is the line of thinking that is responsible for this mess and must be eradicated in order to progress.

Kids are supposed to struggle as they learn. Every single one of those players you mentioned is doing just fine. Maybe their individual potentials aren't top of the line, but they need to be allowed to show their strengths and not be limited by their weaknesses while they learn.

But they aren't going to be given that patience while the team thinks it has a chance at making the playoffs. Instead they are being taught how not to hurt the team instead of learning how to help it.
 
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Kingspiracy said:
I think i'd jettison koala boy to start with.

Would ownership pony up pay outs and the cost of a new hiring if they've already lost dollars over covid?
Click to expand...

Just have Stoll do Bally sports interviews from the bench... and since hes already there just coach the team too.
 
If there is a positive, in the last 8 games the kings played 7 one-goal games (empty netters still count as 1 goal games)... We are 1-6 in those games. It's not like we are flat out losing, but we are falling just short almost every time.
 
BigKing said:
I am a well-known Blake "hater" but I still liked the moves this off season. Of course, that assumed a certain handling of the roster during the season by Blake and T-Mac which was why I probably should have been on board the tank train again. Hard to be on board with that when you are paying for seats and have been away for a year and a half.

I don't think that the roster is as unskilled or void of talent like some on here but it is so lacking in character and drive. Everyone is talented at the NHL level and there aren't many that can just get by on sheer talent. This team is happy to not finish checks and just play pick-up hockey. It's been this way for far too long so where does it start? Is it the old core? It's up to the players to play a certain way so blame them but you've also got to blame Bluc since there is no accountability.

We are witness to this franchise being run by the players Lombardi didn't want here when he was building his culture: the dudes that are simply happy to be here so they can live at the beach. I mean, Lombardi came in and the first thing he was all about was changing the culture and what happens...he does that but is ultimately fired so they can go back to the old culture! It's f***ing wild.

This isn't a "should have kept DL" thing at all but it is shaping up like what many of us feared when Bluc took over. And if anyone wants to defend Blake with the "top prospect pool" thing, please don't. You have to be special ed if you can't put together a Top 5 pool after five years of keeping all your picks, trading away all your good players for more picks and finishing at or near the bottom of the league. Any of us could have just taken the top ranked guy by Central Scouting for every Kings pick Blake has made and we would be sitting on a Top 5 pool.
Click to expand...

Can this be a surprise to anyone who views Blake and Robitaille as two of the most identified players of the "just happy to be living on the beach" culture? Certainly not me.
 
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