Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster discussion part V

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Honest question not just for you. Is the “identity” on the coach or the GM to establish?

If it's the GM's responsibility to hire the coach and the GM's responsibility to put together the roster of players then I'd say the buck stops with the GM with just about everything. If the coach didn't establish the identity the GM was attempting to capture then the GM hired the wrong coach and/or assembled the wrong group of players.
 
I feel for McLellan and Blake at the moment because I believe I see what they're trying to do with the kind of prospects that we've been drafting since 2017. I think the main issue is that we're trying to stop sucking while the prospects aren't ready yet to take over which sees Danault and Arvidsson enter stage right. At the end of the day results still matter. Its been losing season after losing season for years now and there's been a little progress since McLellan came in, but its still been a bottom 10 team. Unfortunately we just have to wait and see how the rest of the year plays out. If we make these additions and are still a bottom 10 team then I think its more than fair to question the coach and then the GM who hired him.
 
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Like I said in an earlier response, there is a healthy balance between leading the league in TOI and playing a few minutes. Since TMac came to the Kings, Doughty has averaged 26 minutes per game, is that really necessary if the team does not have expectations? Couldn't that be dropped down to 22 minutes and have a guy like Roy or Walker pick up a couple extra minutes? Especially when we are talking about two guys who spent the past decade eating heavy minutes. Doughty played the second most minutes in the 2010's with 22,199 and Kopitar led all forwards with 17,721. If there are no playoff expectations then the Kings absolutely should have been managing their workload.

As I said, BEFORE TMac Doughty was playing that much as well. Is it necessary? Yeah. You do your best to give a team a chance to win, so you play Doughty 26 a night, not 22 and through some random kid out for the other four. Let the kid earn it. This isn't a video game, part of establishing a culture is establishing you earn your ice time based on merit, not your age or draft selection. Hate to break it to you but heavy workload or not, both players are still pretty damn awesome and so far this season -albeit just three games- all those past minutes don't seem to be hurting them to much, nor have they until this point either.
 
As I said, BEFORE TMac Doughty was playing that much as well. Is it necessary? Yeah. You do your best to give a team a chance to win, so you play Doughty 26 a night, not 22 and through some random kid out for the other four. Let the kid earn it. This isn't a video game, part of establishing a culture is establishing you earn your ice time based on merit, not your age or draft selection. Hate to break it to you but heavy workload or not, both players are still pretty damn awesome and so far this season -albeit just three games- all those past minutes don't seem to be hurting them to much, nor have they until this point either.

I was pointing out that you can still be playing big minutes without being at the top of the entire league. They are still awesome players, but they are in their 30's and I'd like for them to be awesome for a lot longer. It's funny you mention me thinking as if it is a video game, when you seem to be completely ignoring the physical toll of playing these heavy minutes.
 
What was their GSVA before we traded them?

As of the beginning of the 2019-2020 season (except for Muzzin whose benchmark was the beginning of 2018-2019):
  • Alec Martinez - 0.4 (second/third pair) --> +1 to 1.4 as of today (top pairing)
  • Tyler Toffoli - 1.3 (second line) --> +0.5 to 1.8 as of today (top six/first line)
  • Jake Muzzin - 1.4 (top pairing) --> +0.5 to 1.9 as of today (top pairing/1D)
  • Jeff Carter - 0.9 (middle six) --> -0.1 to 0.8 as of today (middle six)
Carter analytically looks the same, but the other three all basically took one full step up in their respective tiers. All three are obviously on deeper teams, but yeah, definitely interesting.

Interestingly, as of the start of 2018-2019 when the wheels fell off, Kopitar, Toffoli, Brown, and Carter were all rated as strong first liners, and Doughty was ranked as an elite 1D (not just top pairing). On the flip side, Tanner Pearson was also rated as a strong second liner, but now his GSVA is 0.2 (after a rough year for the entire Vancouver roster).
 
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I was pointing out that you can still be playing big minutes without being at the top of the entire league. They are still awesome players, but they are in their 30's and I'd like for them to be awesome for a lot longer. It's funny you mention me thinking as if it is a video game, when you seem to be completely ignoring the physical toll of playing these heavy minutes.

No I'm not. I pointed out they are still performing quite well despite them. Kopi is 34 and still doing fine despite the minutes and Drew looks to be the same. Just because they are older doesn't mean they will automatically fall off due to a lot of minutes.
 
Not to say I liked Sutter, but you can bet that Hagendaaz would have got his ass kicked under his regime.

Todd and Blake have made this team spineless. No cohesion. No brotherhood. They both need to get fired.

As for "for who" question. Literally anyone because this ship has continually been sinking. Everyone except Willie d.
 
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Kings should now more than ever think about a Vilardi Kempe package to get a real solid defenseman.

Roy, walker and all no name clowns can't caress Voynovs jock. It was a one man show and there's people pretending it isn't just Drew.
 
If it’s going to be more than 2-3 weeks, because that means it’s likely 2-3 months as a minimum, then Doughty’s injury is going to cause some serious rethinking. Do they:

1. Stay the course and see who steps up.
2. Make a big move for a LHD early, knowing the price goes up significantly, in an attempt to save the season.
3. Tank now and hope they get a top 2 pick as reward for our bad luck.

For me it has to be number 1 as although we do have the assets to make a big move we aren’t filling a DD sized hole, no matter what. Tanking just hurts the development of players at this point of things IMO. That’s not to say I wouldn’t make a move if the right LHD becomes available at a sensible price but bringing in a quick fix usually just creates a new problem.

Injuries happen at any time and the young players need to be able to adapt and not crumble when a key player is lost. A real opportunity is now there for a new pecking order to be established on the right side with so much competition in the system. Strand is rightly recalled but Durzi and even Grans should at least have the mindset of trying to force and opportunity. Strand for example could make Roy expendable once DD is fit, that has to be his mentality.

The guys on the left hand side also have to step up and Björnfot has an opportunity to really show he can be a top pairing guy, it’s too early to expect him to show it nightly but he needs to really demonstrate that potential. Edler and Maata no longer needed to defer to DD and can show some real blue line leadership and extend their NHL careers. The defence have to take this opportunity and it will tell us all we need to know about the character of everyone in the system in LA and Ontario.

As for the response. Not acceptable. There is zero chance that having a tough team stops the bad hit as bad hits happened even when teams played Philadelphia in the 70’s. It’s a fallacy to claim fighting and tough guys stop anything. However, I expect that hit to generate an emotional response. I’ve seen Wayne f’ing Gretzky starts scrums for less. It doesn’t need a McDermid level fighter out there but we desperately need a Mike Richards, Robyn Regehr and a Matt Green. Something needs to spark and galvanize these guys, the response needs to be one of then running the opposition over.

I wouldn’t make a big trade but I would call up Turcotte in the near future to that end, once Lemieux and Andersson are ready to go, so we get an injection of attitude in one go. I’d tell them, with Strand that they need to inject some emotion and spark the team, accepting a few bad penalties along the way. I would also trade for someone else that can drop the mitts, not because I subscribe to it really being needed but because psychologically players think it protects them. It’s not an enforcer that brings team toughness it’s the Richards and Greens of this world, it’s heart and attitude that dictates it.

Forget big names, big trades etc. The most important thing for this team and it’s development right now is to find some heart and right now this is mostly on the players
 
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Agreed. I think Girard makes a ton of sense. We'd need to pair him with a mean SOB though, as though I think his playoff struggles last year were exaggerated, he definitely can be exposed by an ultra-physical forecheck. That's why Hague or Sergachev would be nice, as they both have size and attitude.

I could for sure see a scenario where Walker goes to COL in the trade along with picks and prospects to help them save cap while still getting a solid, third pairing puck-mover. Byram slides up in their lineup, and voila, both teams are happy.

Colorado would be looking for a young top-6 forward or top-6 forward prospect if they traded Girard, not a 3rd pairing fill-in defenseman. They could conceivably trade Girard in the near future, based on how Byram seems to be progressing, but forward is more of a need for them.

With Erik Johnson's contract expiring after next season ($6 MM AAV), they have the space coming up to re-sign MacKinnon with his salary increase. It also seems unlikely that they re-sign Kadri and they may not re-sign Burakovsky either. It frees up nearly $11 MM with those two departures, but they would have needs at forward.

Justin Barron almost made Colorado's roster this season and Colorado's management and coaches seem enamored with him. Barron was Colorado's first round selection in 2020 as a RHD (25th overall). They also seem to have other strong defensive prospects on the way (Helleson (2019 second round draft pick; Sean Behrens (2021 second round draft pick).
 
If it’s going to be more than 2-3 weeks, because that means it’s likely 2-3 months as a minimum, then Doughty’s injury is going to cause some serious rethinking. Do they:

1. Stay the course and see who steps up.
2. Make a big move for a LHD early, knowing the price goes up significantly, in an attempt to save the season.
3. Tank now and hope they get a top 2 pick as reward for our bad luck.

For me it has to be number 1 as although we do have the assets to make a big move we aren’t filling a DD sized hole, no matter what. Tanking just hurts the development of players at this point of things IMO. That’s not to say I wouldn’t make a move if the right LHD becomes available at a sensible price but bringing in a quick fix usually just creates a new problem.

Injuries happen at any time and the young players need to be able to adapt and not crumble when a key player is lost. A real opportunity is now there for a new pecking order to be established on the right side with so much competition in the system. Strand is rightly recalled but Durzi and even Grans should at least have the mindset of trying to force and opportunity. Strand for example could make Roy expendable once DD is fit, that has to be his mentality.

The guys on the left hand side also have to step up and Björnfot has an opportunity to really show he can be a top pairing guy, it’s too early to expect him to show it nightly but he needs to really demonstrate that potential. Edler and Maata no longer needed to defer to DD and can show some real blue line leadership and extend their NHL careers. The defence have to take this opportunity and it will tell us all we need to know about the character of everyone in the system in LA and Ontario.

As for the response. Not acceptable. There is zero chance that having a tough team stops the bad hit as bad hits happened even when teams played Philadelphia in the 70’s. It’s a fallacy to claim fighting and tough guys stop anything. However, I expect that hit to generate an emotional response. I’ve seen Wayne f’ing Gretzky starts scrums for less. It doesn’t need a McDermid level fighter out there but we desperately need a Mike Richards, Robyn Regehr and a Matt Green. Something needs to spark and galvanize these guys, the response needs to be one of then running the opposition over.

I wouldn’t make a big trade but I would call up Turcotte in the near future to that end, once Lemieux and Andersson are ready to go, so we get an injection of attitude in one go. I’d tell them, with Strand that they need to inject some emotion and spark the team, accepting a few bad penalties along the way. I would also trade for someone else that can drop the mitts, not because I subscribe to it really being needed but because psychologically players think it protects them. It’s not an enforcer that brings team toughness it’s the Richards and Greens of this world, it’s heart and attitude that dictates it.

Forget big names, big trades etc. The most important thing for this team and it’s development right now is to find some heart and right now this is mostly on the players

There aren't 3 options right now. It's way too early in the season. They are going to stay the course, because that's what happens in the league now. You make your moves in the summer, and you're basically stuck with whatever you have, good or bad, until the deadline. There's no selling off all your UFA's now to tank. There's no team altering move to bring a savior in. 20 or 30 years ago? Yes, trading was fun. Today? Very likely that absolutely nothing happens, other than the callups.
 
I was against hiring TMac from the beginning. Seemed strange to hire the guy who was behind the bench for that humiliating series against the Sharks where the Kings came back from being down 3 games. Maybe the players are more professional than I am. I would be like, "This is my new boss? The guy who couldn't get the Sharks to win 1 more game out of 4?" Part of me thinks he only took the job to get revenge on the Kings. Kidding, but I don't know how much...
I agree with all of this but I kinda wonder if TMac is saying to himself "THESE are the guys that knocked our dicks in back in SJ???"
 
Colorado would be looking for a young top-6 forward or top-6 forward prospect if they traded Girard, not a 3rd pairing fill-in defenseman. They could conceivably trade Girard in the near future, based on how Byram seems to be progressing, but forward is more of a need for them.

With Erik Johnson's contract expiring after next season ($6 MM AAV), they have the space coming up to re-sign MacKinnon with his salary increase. It also seems unlikely that they re-sign Kadri and they may not re-sign Burakovsky either. It frees up nearly $11 MM with those two departures, but they would have needs at forward.

Justin Barron almost made Colorado's roster this season and Colorado's management and coaches seem enamored with him. Barron was Colorado's first round selection in 2020 as a RHD (25th overall). They also seem to have other strong defensive prospects on the way (Helleson (2019 second round draft pick; Sean Behrens (2021 second round draft pick).

Agreed on all fronts. I didn’t mean to imply Walker was the main piece in terms of value. We could send a top 5/10 protected 1st rounder their way as well that they could then turn and flip for one of the pieces they need, or it could just be one of our grade A/B forward prospects they could slot into their lineup for cheap.
 
How do we still have such a skill lacking team AND small/weak/soft? Isn't it usually the one or the other? You have big, tough, mean guys but they lack top skill.....or a bunch of small, speedy, skillful guys but they can be pushed around, small/weak/soft, etc. It's odd.....and somewhat infuriating that it's continued year after year.
 
Life as a Kings fan …

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I feel for McLellan and Blake at the moment because I believe I see what they're trying to do with the kind of prospects that we've been drafting since 2017. I think the main issue is that we're trying to stop sucking while the prospects aren't ready yet to take over which sees Danault and Arvidsson enter stage right. At the end of the day results still matter. Its been losing season after losing season for years now and there's been a little progress since McLellan came in, but its still been a bottom 10 team. Unfortunately we just have to wait and see how the rest of the year plays out. If we make these additions and are still a bottom 10 team then I think its more than fair to question the coach and then the GM who hired him.

I am kind of in this boat. TMac wasn't the best possible coach, but I was supportive of the hiring. I am more neutral on it now and think he is getting closer to the hot seat and will be on it next season or the one after, but I don't think it is all his fault at the moment. I honestly was very negative on the Blake hiring and am now fairly positive on the guy. He's done a decent job at signing players, making trades, and drafting. The vision is clear and the draft pool accumulated should be performing better than they are, but at the same time, the whole league is feeling these growing pains as well with players like Kakko, Lafreniere, Hughes, etc.

The main issue the Kings have right now is growing pains of players being in situations they aren't experienced enough or ready for; however, I also don't think it is wrong for them to be in them. Many have earned the right to be on the team, though some may not have earned their position like Anderson, but I understand why he's there, etc... Just have to hold their feet to the fire and see who sinks or swims. Not every prospect is going to make it. In fact, most don't make it and end up waived, unsigned, or trade fodder. Obviously, the survival of the rebuild and team's hopes of contention ride on a few of those draft choices to not just hit but be home runs.

So, it is an anxious time to be a Kings fan and probably a more anxious time to be a Kings staff member as you hold your breath watching kids whose performance has your job on the line :P In the end, no matter how you look at it, boring hockey aside, there are exciting aspects to the season and something interesting to keep your eye on... I neve thought I would say it but I do feel for TMac and Blake during this time...
 
God watching that replay after the Doughty hit...

f***ing bring in Torts, Mike Keenan, or Crawford. I cannot go another year of this utterly gutless, cowardly, completely p***yfied brand of hockey, Blake's vision be damned. Trying to ice a team of speedy midgets who won't stick up for one another is worse than anything I've seen in Kings history. Might as well be the Willie D year at this point, but at least the players were bonded in their hatred for him!
 
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