Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster discussion part V

[Docgonzo]

Okay. McLellan's fired. Who do you hire? What else do you do? What expectations do you set?

No no no that’s not how this works, they just need to hire someone good. And then trade for someone good, I don’t know who but just do it. Fire everybody and trade everybody.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Paying a coach $10M to sit at home is a hard pill to swallow. With Blake’s contract rumored to be up at the end of the year, it’s unlikely he gets permission to send Todd packing, unless he’s extended mid season. It could happen if the team is competitive in the standings, but it’s no sure bet.

We’ll see trades that move out pieces that are not performing up to expectations before Todd is let go. Like when Pearson was moved before Steven’s was canned. Kempe is the #1 candidate that is frustrating everyone and has potential trade value. That’s a post Thanksgiving type of horizon.

 

[Bandit]

Jeff Carter's play since leaving the Kings is one of the biggest indictments of Todd IMO.

Carter played like a douche under Dejardins, Stevens, Sutter at the end… don’t think it was the coach.

 

[Statto]

Not to be too cynical, but I doubt Lias coming back will make much difference.

Preseason means pretty much nothing.

Bottom line is that Lias is a guy who's never done anything in the NHL. If we're pinning our hopes on him to get the Tkachev/Vilardi/Andersson line going, I think we'll be disappointed.

It was a small sample size but Andersson and Vilardi had a good run when put together at the end of last season. They seemed to build on that in preseason and that is where the hope comes from, not solely on warm up games. The concern is that it shouldn’t need Andersson coming back to get Vilardi going and as much as I’ve been a huge GV advocate I have to admit that it worries me slightly. I’m happy to be patient but something has to change before the end of the calendar year, at the latest.

 

[Statto]

Jeff Carter's play since leaving the Kings is one of the biggest indictments of Todd IMO.

Because he was at the peak of his powers for the 3 years prior to TMac’s arrival? I understand the concern over the Coach but let’s use valid arguments.

 

[Statto]

They're not imaginary. Do a simple search and you will find them if you're curious rather than of accusing me of lying

I don’t recall too many examples of over zealous backing of the Coach. I was happy to give him a go at the start and there are certainly mitigating circumstances up until this point, especially the state of the NHL roster and to a lesser degree Covid - everyone had the same issue so it’s not a complete pass. This year is the first year it is realistic to expect the team to move forward so let’s see. I’m prepared to give him time, but he’s definitely on the hook for delivering tangible, significant improvements. I don’t really recall seeing many (if any posts) since the end of last season taking a more supportive stance than that, which isn’t unreasonable.

Whilst he’s not won he did get fairly consistent performances in San Jose and he’s gotten more out of a McDavid led Oilers (before he and Draisital reached their current levels) than his successors, so I think he’s capable of moving us forward. Do I think he’s the right guy to win us a cup? Probably not, but we aren’t ready for that yet. He has to have us in the play-off hunt at the TDL and if not Blake will have a decision to make.

 

[kingsfan]

Okay so we have one How big a fan are we talking? Are you claiming he's the best coach in Kings history? Or that he's made the best of a bad situation?

I'm not saying I hate TM, I'm not saying I love TM. But that claim is analogous to me saying "Time to send down Blake Lizotte. Sorry Lizotte fanboys! Hate to break it to the Blake Lizotte FANCLUB!". What fan club? There's a big difference between people saying "Yeah, Lizotte is a fourth liner, hopefully there are people better but he's doing okay" and saying "Lizotte should be our 1C!". It's just a false narrative here, that's all.

I see people arguing that our roster's poor play isn't entirely on TM. I think that's a fair assessment. I wouldn't say I'm in the TM fan club as a result. Usually, when coaches are fired, it's because the team is talented enough to make a splash in the playoffs and they're severely underperforming. But Blake and Luc had a plan, and the plan was to draft well and play the kigs, and many of the younger guys are getting their opportunities and aren't making much of it. The guys that are performing well are the veterans. Kopitar and Doughty are leading this team and they're head and shoulders above everyone else. Danault, Arvidsson, Brown, Iafallo, and Walker are looking pretty good too. I haven't seen a lot from anyone else, but I missed last game, so I don't have the full picture.

Byfield's really the first guy we've drafted since Doughty that came in and made a statement, and then he gets hurt. That really sucks. I wonder how different things would be if Byfield was playing on our third line generating real chances. What is there to do if Vilardi and Kaliyev can't play in the NHL now or ever? Is that on TM? Is that on the development staff? Is it on the players themselves? I just don't think I'd pin this all on one guy.

-Above average fan, but not mancrushing it
-Absolutely not
-I don't think any coach makes the best, but I don't think he's hurt us overall

Someone said it earlier that TM got a 5 year deal to eat a turd sandwich for the first few, and I think that's fairly accurate. I think Blake felt TM was the guy to lead the club once the rebuild was done, and we're now entering that part where the rebuild is coming to an end. Let's not forget Blake played his final two years under McLellan on a team that was expected to be a cup contender. While they obviously didn't win the cup, in Blake's final year they made the third round, so he knows from first hand experience TM can work with a veteran squad and go deep into the playoffs.

I'm not saying I think he'll do that here -I have mixed feelings about TM's playoff track record- but we aren't at the stage yet where we're looking at a cup run. We're still just trying to get to the dance.

Last year disappointed me in the second half, mostly because we started strong then really dropped off, and I finger point to the coach on that as much as the vets, but this is a new year and I'll let it play out. Considering the investments in Edler, Danault and Arvidsson in the off-season, we're clearly at a point where management isn't interested in accumulating draft picks anymore and is looking more towards immediate results, so let's see what comes of it. I still think we need a legitimate scoring threat and as much as I like Arvidsson, he isn't it. He's a nice 2nd line complimentary piece. We need a guy who is a season-over-season 30+ goal threat. Maybe that's Kaliyev or Byfield, but neither would be doing that this year and possibly not next either, so I think we're a piece away up front. The defense is also an average but not great collection and Edler provides more depth than improvement at this stage. In net, well that's my biggest area of concern. I'm not sure how many net tandems you wouldn't take over Peterson and Quick right now. Goaltending is the quickest coach killer out there, and there's no one in the pipeline who is a surefire talent.

This year I think we have to be in the playoffs, or at the very least in the picture until the final few games. If we're 10 points out at the trade deadline, someone will pay the price and given the vets have so far shown up and produced very well in most cases -albeit in a small sample size- that could fall on the coach.

How often does the Todd fan club meet & are there donuts & coffee?

Coffee is free but its BYOD

 

[Kurrilino]

It was a small sample size but Andersson and Vilardi had a good run when put together at the end of last season. They seemed to build on that in preseason and that is where the hope comes from, not solely on warm up games. The concern is that it shouldn’t need Andersson coming back to get Vilardi going and as much as I’ve been a huge GV advocate I have to admit that it worries me slightly. I’m happy to be patient but something has to change before the end of the calendar year, at the latest.

I'm not really concerned about Vilardi.
His skills are too obvious and he is kinda 2 years behind because of his back anyways.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Paying a coach $10M to sit at home is a hard pill to swallow. With Blake’s contract rumored to be up at the end of the year, it’s unlikely he gets permission to send Todd packing, unless he’s extended mid season. It could happen if the team is competitive in the standings, but it’s no sure bet.

We’ll see trades that move out pieces that are not performing up to expectations before Todd is let go. Like when Pearson was moved before Steven’s was canned. Kempe is the #1 candidate that is frustrating everyone and has potential trade value. That’s a post Thanksgiving type of horizon.

Michel Bergeron is also rumored to be a free agent at the end of the year!!! Maybe sooner. Links to Luc.

 

[crassbonanza]

I was OK at first with the return of T Mac(heh), but there are definitely issues that I am concerned about. The biggest one for me is that he has completely failed to establish any sort of identity with the team. We are slow, soft and poor both offensively and defensively. The only notable, consistent structure I have noticed him implementing the 1-3-1, which honestly just feels outdated at this point.

 

[KingLB]

I was OK at first with the return of T Mac(heh), but there are definitely issues that I am concerned about. The biggest one for me is that he has completely failed to establish any sort of identity with the team. We are slow, soft and poor both offensively and defensively. The only notable, consistent structure I have noticed him implementing the 1-3-1, which honestly just feels outdated at this point.

Honest question not just for you. Is the “identity” on the coach or the GM to establish?

 

[SufferingSelfCreated]

Honest question not just for you. Is the “identity” on the coach or the GM to establish?

How about we bridge the gap and say it's systemic?

 

[KingLB]

How about we bridge the gap and say it's systemic?

So fire them both?

 

[crassbonanza]

Honest question not just for you. Is the “identity” on the coach or the GM to establish?

I think that's a very fair question and I guess ultimately it is on the GM, but I have to imagine that Blake and TMac are working together to try to establish whatever they are going for. I think Blake has made some puzzling moves, but TMac has not been great at utilizing the pieces he has. Like, were we tanking the previous couple of seasons? Then why does Doughty have the 2nd highest TOI/GP in the league? Why is Kopitar 8th among forwards? Shouldn't we be easing their workload and allowing the youth to gain experience?

Both Blake and TMac honestly seem aimless at this point.

 

[kingsfan]

I think that's a very fair question and I guess ultimately it is on the GM, but I have to imagine that Blake and TMac are working together to try to establish whatever they are going for. I think Blake has made some puzzling moves, but TMac has not been great at utilizing the pieces he has. Like, were we tanking the previous couple of seasons? Then why does Doughty have the 2nd highest TOI/GP in the league? Why is Kopitar 8th among forwards? Shouldn't we be easing their workload and allowing the youth to gain experience?

Both Blake and TMac honestly seem aimless at this point.

This year will be telling in that regard. We brought in Danault, so Kopitar's ice time should decrease as a result. Our centre depth has been pretty awful behind Kopitar for a while now so is the ice time indicative of overplaying Kopitar or of the fact we didn't have anyone to shoulder the load? The change in offensive zone starts for Kopi this year already shows a big shift and that's likely because Danault can eat some of those defensive zone starts he was taking on before.

Same with Doughty. He plays a ton, but who do you feel comfortable giving his minutes too? And do we need to reduce it? In 2013-2014, our last cup year, he played 25:43 a game. Last year it was 26:23, so about one more shift a game. I get he's older and it might be worth it to take away a bit of ice time, but I don't think we need to take away much.

 

[shuchukfan]

I was against hiring TMac from the beginning. Seemed strange to hire the guy who was behind the bench for that humiliating series against the Sharks where the Kings came back from being down 3 games. Maybe the players are more professional than I am. I would be like, "This is my new boss? The guy who couldn't get the Sharks to win 1 more game out of 4?" Part of me thinks he only took the job to get revenge on the Kings. Kidding, but I don't know how much...

 

[crassbonanza]

This year will be telling in that regard. We brought in Danault, so Kopitar's ice time should decrease as a result. Our centre depth has been pretty awful behind Kopitar for a while now so is the ice time indicative of overplaying Kopitar or of the fact we didn't have anyone to shoulder the load? The change in offensive zone starts for Kopi this year already shows a big shift and that's likely because Danault can eat some of those defensive zone starts he was taking on before.

Same with Doughty. He plays a ton, but who do you feel comfortable giving his minutes too? And do we need to reduce it? In 2013-2014, our last cup year, he played 25:43 a game. Last year it was 26:23, so about one more shift a game. I get he's older and it might be worth it to take away a bit of ice time, but I don't think we need to take away much.

Well, that is why I was asking if we were tanking. If we were tanking, then letting Vilardi/Kempe/Lizotte/Walker/Roy/Anderson/Bjornfot play more minutes shouldn't matter. I'm not even saying give any of those guys number 1 minutes, but there is a healthy in between. Again, this example is just one to show how rudderless the team feels.

 

[BringTheReign]

I know chemistry is important, and we did need to rebuild given the results in '18-'19 (and the playoff sweep prior), but it is pretty frustrating to look at the impact those who were traded are having. Here's the GSVA for some of them:

• Alec Martinez - 1.4 (top pairing)
• Tyler Toffoli - 1.8 (top six)
• Jake Muzzin - 1.9 (top pairing)
• Jeff Carter - 0.8 (middle six)

It really did just go stale with that group despite the talent. That was with Sutter and Lombardi that it began, and even if John Stevens shook it out for a single year, it didn't last.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I know chemistry is important, and we did need to rebuild given the results in '18-'19 (and the playoff sweep prior), but it is pretty frustrating to look at the impact those who were traded are having. Here's the GSVA for some of them:

• Alec Martinez - 1.4 (top pairing)
• Tyler Toffoli - 1.8 (top six)
• Jake Muzzin - 1.9 (top pairing)
• Jeff Carter - 0.8 (middle six)

It really did just go stale with that group despite the talent. That was with Sutter and Lombardi that it began, and even if John Stevens shook it out for a single year, it didn't last.

We got return for all of them. That's why they were traded. We would have moved more if the others had more value.

 

[BringTheReign]

We got return for all of them. That's why they were traded. We would have moved more if the others had more value.

Yep, fair enough. I’m just whining.

 

[kingsfan]

Well, that is why I was asking if we were tanking. If we were tanking, then letting Vilardi/Kempe/Lizotte/Walker/Roy/Anderson/Bjornfot play more minutes shouldn't matter. I'm not even saying give any of those guys number 1 minutes, but there is a healthy in between. Again, this example is just one to show how rudderless the team feels.

So, we weren't tanking but that shows how the team feels rudderless? I don't follow what you're saying.

 

[kingsfan]

I know chemistry is important, and we did need to rebuild given the results in '18-'19 (and the playoff sweep prior), but it is pretty frustrating to look at the impact those who were traded are having. Here's the GSVA for some of them:

• Alec Martinez - 1.4 (top pairing)
• Tyler Toffoli - 1.8 (top six)
• Jake Muzzin - 1.9 (top pairing)
• Jeff Carter - 0.8 (middle six)

It really did just go stale with that group despite the talent. That was with Sutter and Lombardi that it began, and even if John Stevens shook it out for a single year, it didn't last.

What was their GSVA before we traded them?

 

[crassbonanza]

So, we weren't tanking but that shows how the team feels rudderless? I don't follow what you're saying.

I am saying the team doesn't seem to have a cohesive plan. If they had high expectations then the results are damning. If they were retooling, why are they are playing Kopitar/Doughty so many minutes? Why not spread the ice time to see what the younger players can do? Why not go through growing pains with prospects when the expectations are low?

 

[kingsfan]

I am saying the team doesn't seem to have a cohesive plan. If they had high expectations then the results are damning. If they were retooling, why are they are playing Kopitar/Doughty so many minutes? Why not spread the ice time to see what the younger players can do? Why not go through growing pains with prospects when the expectations are low?

Gotcha.

I'd rather set the expectation that the best players get played the most and best minutes. Meaning, you earn your ice time based on merit, not potential. No forward or defenseman on this team came close to Kopi or Doughty's level, hence they get played so much. As the youngsters earn more ice time, they'll get it I think. It's also pretty hard to tell guys like that they are going to see a few minutes on the bench each night so some kid can try and show what he can do when they had to earn their own ice time.

 

[crassbonanza]

Gotcha.

I'd rather set the expectation that the best players get played the most and best minutes. Meaning, you earn your ice time based on merit, not potential. No forward or defenseman on this team came close to Kopi or Doughty's level, hence they get played so much. As the youngsters earn more ice time, they'll get it I think. It's also pretty hard to tell guys like that they are going to see a few minutes on the bench each night so some kid can try and show what he can do when they had to earn their own ice time.

Like I said in an earlier response, there is a healthy balance between leading the league in TOI and playing a few minutes. Since TMac came to the Kings, Doughty has averaged 26 minutes per game, is that really necessary if the team does not have expectations? Couldn't that be dropped down to 22 minutes and have a guy like Roy or Walker pick up a couple extra minutes? Especially when we are talking about two guys who spent the past decade eating heavy minutes. Doughty played the second most minutes in the 2010's with 22,199 and Kopitar led all forwards with 17,721. If there are no playoff expectations then the Kings absolutely should have been managing their workload.