2021-2022 S Blues Multi-Purpose Thread Part 3

[execwrite1]

Haven't delved into the whole contract/Athletic rating issue.

Binnington's deal was not good.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Hockey fan here. It's seems many hockey fans are unhappy with their beat writers. I think its because there often isn't much "meat" to report on. They have to deliver content so they tend to speculate. Russo is considered to be one of the best but I find his work to be fanboy in a way that I can't put my finger on. Their just isn't as many strategies you can report on compared to,say, football. It makes for a lot of redundancy and fluff. The hard cap makes for a lot of tight lips on the part of management. Nature of the beast?

Disagree. Someone like Russo actually reports. Gets info from team or players agents and is clear about where it came from. JR is a hack.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Can he play the 4th line?

I wouldn’t mind bringing in someone for cheap to play with Acciari on the 4th line as I don’t really like our current winger options there - Leivo, Brown, Frk, Highmore etc. but I don’t think Larson really fits that role well either.

Unless I am competley miscasting him, I don't see why he can't compete for a 4th-line spot. We seem to have a need for one more solid 4th-line guy. And if we really do need another 4th-line type, then we'd have to do some cap maneuvering anyway.

Always liked the player, but it appears the Blues are going for a committee type of 4th line with 6-7 players battling in camp for a spot. While Larsson is better than Highmore/Frk/Angello/Leivo/Bitten/Alexandrov, I like the idea of a rotating fourth line, at least until Toropchenko returns.

I'm ok with the committee approach. Just throwing out an idea.

Would he sign for league minimum?

He was at 1.4 cap hit last season, is on the wrong side of 30 and is without a contract as we quickly approach training camp. Maybe he'd sign for less.

I've read here that we may need another 4th liner, but I personally don't see it that way and think we have enough depth. But if we do, then Larsson might not be a bad option, if we can make it work.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Unless I am competley miscasting him, I don't see why he can't compete for a 4th-line spot. We seem to have a need for one more solid 4th-line guy. And if we really do need another 4th-line type, then we'd have to do some cap maneuvering anyway.

I'm ok with the committee approach. Just throwing out an idea.

He was at 1.4 cap hit last season, is on the wrong side of 30 and is without a contract as we quickly approach training camp. Maybe he'd sign for less.

I've read here that we may need another 4th liner, but I personally don't see it that way and think we have enough depth. But if we do, then Larsson might not be a bad option, if we can make it work.

Not really. At least not more of cap crunch than we currently have. We’re currently ~$600k under the Cap with a 22-man roster. Would be over if it was 23.

Adding another solid 4th line type for league minimum or close too it would simply mean that cheap player makes the team over another cheap player so basically a wash as far as the Cap is concerned.

Given what we have now, I guess I’d go with a 4th line of:
Walker-Acciari-Kostin
but I don’t have a lot of faith in that line.

And then who for the 13th forward? Brown? Highmore? Perhaps Leivo. All serviceable but my hope is that as we get closer to camp that there’s a better player out there that’s still unsigned that lowers his asking price to make the current tweener guys we have expendable.

 

[BlueOil]

Haven't delved into the whole contract/Athletic rating issue.

Binnington's deal was not good.

unless their an RFA with little to no leverage, pretty much every goalie deal since Binnington's is not good. at least we're not stuck with markstrom

Contract Signings - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

NHL player contract signings presented in chronological order

www.capfriendly.com

 

[TK 421]

I still want to see a Neighbours - Acciari - Toropchenko line when Toro gets back in December.

 

[MissouriMook]

Reading the tea leaves from who we brought in, it seems to me like we are going into the season looking to get more scoring from our 4th line while they still play a heavier game, it just won't technically be a "heavy" 4th line in the way we are accustomed to. One long-term benefit to this philosophical change is that we should be able to slide these guys up to the third line as necessary to fill in for Top 9 forwards out of the lineup without too much disruption and fill the voids on the 4th line from the 13th forward slot rather than looking to call up someone from the AHL to step in and play with Top 9 forwards.

 

[STL fan in MN]

How many new ways can Dom get to have his model show that it hates the Blues' players? Its all just the same information over and over, packaged to look like something else.

Apparently it’ll be a daily thing from Dom.
NHL off-season improvement rankings
Blues are ranked 30th.

But I can’t argue with this one as obviously the Blues downgraded on paper. But he still omits Bozak leaving or the addition of Neighbors.

These off-season articles are just the worst. These guys are required to still pump out content but there’s literally next to nothing to talk about. So most of it is just garbage.

 

[PocketNines]

He's obviously got a mental damage going on. Hopefully it consumes him and it takes him down

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Not really. At least not more of cap crunch than we currently have. We’re currently ~$600k under the Cap with a 22-man roster. Would be over if it was 23.

Adding another solid 4th line type for league minimum or close too it would simply mean that cheap player makes the team over another cheap player so basically a wash as far as the Cap is concerned.

Given what we have now, I guess I’d go with a 4th line of:
Walker-Acciari-Kostin
but I don’t have a lot of faith in that line.

And then who for the 13th forward? Brown? Highmore? Perhaps Leivo. All serviceable but my hope is that as we get closer to camp that there’s a better player out there that’s still unsigned that lowers his asking price to make the current tweener guys we have expendable.

Fine, it's a wash. I knew that we're close to the cap ceiling, but didn't look much deeper than Larsson's cap hit last season of 1.4M. Cuz that seems doable for me (with a switcharoony or two) and we get a top-notch defensive forward for the bottom 6. The exact next best thing after a #1LHD, when it comes to team defense.

I still want to see a Neighbours - Acciari - Toropchenko line when Toro gets back in December.

I am soooooo looking forward to this 4th line.

Reading the tea leaves from who we brought in, it seems to me like we are going into the season looking to get more scoring from our 4th line while they still play a heavier game, it just won't technically be a "heavy" 4th line in the way we are accustomed to. One long-term benefit to this philosophical change is that we should be able to slide these guys up to the third line as necessary to fill in for Top 9 forwards out of the lineup without too much disruption and fill the voids on the 4th line from the 13th forward slot rather than looking to call up someone from the AHL to step in and play with Top 9 forwards.

I'm stoked about the Blues new look in the bottom 6. We should get more scoring out of the 4th line this season, which is great cuz we're most likley not going to have 9 20-goal scorers.

We're going to have 10.

 

[TK 421]

Yeah I think it's safe to conclude the St. Louis Blues live inside Dom's head now.

Wouldn't it be great to watch his mental breakdown in real time? Man this season is going to be awesome!

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Apparently it’ll be a daily thing from Dom.
NHL off-season improvement rankings
Blues are ranked 30th.

But I can’t argue with this one as obviously the Blues downgraded on paper. But he still omits Bozak leaving or the addition of Neighbors.

These off-season articles are just the worst. These guys are required to still pump out content but there’s literally next to nothing to talk about. So most of it is just garbage.

There is plenty to talk about, but most journalists are lazy, not creative and simply not in the right profession.

 

[kimzey59]

Could the Blues use Johan Larsson?

Leivo is better.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Leivo is better.

Maybe. They seem to be fair comparables.

Having Larsson on this roster helps because he has carved out a NHL role that the Blues need, is relatively cheap & has twice as much NHL experience as Leivo while being only a year older.

Whether Larsson is on DA’s radar is unknown, but if he will accept a 1x1, then I’m in.

 

[PeoriaBlues309]

Leivo is better.

Not true. Larsson is about as solid of a 4C as you can have in the NHL. Toropchenko-Larsson-Acciari would be an absolutely great 4th line.

 

[Reality Czech]

Not true. Larsson is about as solid of a 4C as you can have in the NHL. Toropchenko-Larsson-Acciari would be an absolutely great 4th line.

I have no doubt it would be, but how many 4th liners does one team need? They addressed 4C with Acciari, doubt Armstrong is even considering bringing in someone else.

 

[DatDude44]

Leivo and larsson are completely different types of players. If you need a bottom 6 PK type of center, larsson os miles better than Leivo. If you’re looking for a plug that can score some goals and play with skill as a complimentary middle 6 w that doesn’t bring much to the table outside of finishing than Leivo is much better.

Strictly depends on role/fit for these two

 

[Brian39]

Apparently it’ll be a daily thing from Dom.
NHL off-season improvement rankings
Blues are ranked 30th.

But I can’t argue with this one as obviously the Blues downgraded on paper. But he still omits Bozak leaving or the addition of Neighbors.

These off-season articles are just the worst. These guys are required to still pump out content but there’s literally next to nothing to talk about. So most of it is just garbage.

From the article:

The Blues also, somehow, lost David Perron which puts a damper on the team’s attack. What made the Blues special last year was their depth, featuring wave after wave of offensively-gifted players. Perron was a vital part of that and his absence will be seriously felt.

Perron had 27 points at 5 on 5 last season. That was good for 10th on the team. Technically it put him in a tie for 10th with Parayko (who weirdly is only worth about $3M a year in part because of his lack of production). His 12 goals at 5 on 5 were tied for 8th on the team with Thomas (who more than doubled up Perron's assist total at 5 on 5). Perron was our 9th most productive forward at 5 on 5 last season. There is no reality where he was a 'vital part' of our "come at you in waves" attack unless you are saying that each and every member of the top 9 was vital. Which kind of dilutes the term.

He was a vital part of our powerplay. If you want to argue that our PP will take a big hit by losing him then feel free. I disagree, but that is a completely different argument than claiming that he was a vital part of our "all 3 lines can light your ass up on the scoreboard" offense.

I'm already really tired of criticizing Perron's game because I really like him, I wanted him to finish his career in a Blue Note, and his departure absolutely will be noticed. He's a good player, but he was absolutely a passenger at even strength last season. That's totally fine at his salary especially considering his lethal shot on the PP. A 5 on 5 passenger who isn't a liability defensively and is a stud on the PP is absolutely worth what he's getting paid. But the narrative surrounding him this summer is that he was the glue holding the offense together and it is completely untrue. ROR, Thomas, Kyrou, Buch, and Tarasenko are all without question more important contributors to this team. There is a very good argument that Barby, Schenn and Saad were all better at even strength. All 3 outscored him and none of the 3 had the benefit of being glued to ROR's hip.

Edit: Minnesota ahead of us on this list is a joke. The gap between Fiala and Perron is substantially bigger than the gap between Husso and Talbot. And I say that as a big fan of Husso and a non-believer in Talbot. Acting like Minnesota losing negative-value-player Nic Delauriers offsets that gap in any meaningful way is ludicrous. Not factoring in the loss of Kadri into Colorado's number is pretty absurd too. They have less than $5M in cap space to sign him (assuming they are comfortable rolling a 21 man roster. Less space assuming they want 22 guys). FWIW, he acknowledges in the article that they would fall well behind us if they don't bring back Kadri.

 

[Brian39]

I'm not worried about the PP next season. Losing Perron will require a strategic adjustment, but I think we have the personnel to adapt.

Torey Krug being talent #1. I didn't like his contract the day we signed it and I still don't. I think it has had a ripple effect on the quality of the D group at 5 on 5 and I don't think it will age well. But he is a hell of a PP QB. I think that Blues fans drastically underrate his impact on the PP.

He took over as Boston's top unit PP QB in 2013/14. The year before, Chara was the top dog there and Hamilton got the large remainder of the PP minutes. Boston's PP was 26th in the league in 2012/13 and jumped to 3rd in the league in 2013/14. Krug was the top PP QB for the rest of his time in Boston. Here is a breakdown of how their PP finished each year:

2013/14: 3rd
2014/15: 18th
2015/16: 7th
2016/17: 7th
2017/18: 4th
2018/19: 3rd
2019/20: 2nd

That is remarkable consistency over his time as Boston's top unit QB. Boston's PP was #1 if you sum all of the seasons in that timeframe. Their PP fell to 10th in 2020/21 and 15th in 2021/22. It certainly doesn't seem like Krug was simply the beneficiary of talent around him. Krug himself was 4th among all NHL D men in PP points during his run as Boston's top PP QB.

The Blues had a damn good PP the year before Krug's arrival, finishing 3rd in the NHL with Petro finishing 7th in PP points among D men. We have continued the very strong PP since Krug's arrival (6th and 2nd).

All told, Krug has been a top unit PP QB for 9 seasons and his team's PP has finished 7th or better in 8 of those 9 years. It's been top 4 in 5 of 9 seasons. Are we going to go 27% again next year? Probably not. But I'll be surprised if the PP isn't inside the top 10 next year. I'd say that 4th-7th is a pretty reasonably expectation. Our PP moves the puck as well as any in the league and Krug's passing and decision making up top is a massive part of that. We will miss Perron's ability to pull the trigger on cross ice passes with accuracy, but we have enough offensive talent to provide Krug with a ton of weapons with Tarasenko, ROR, Schenn, Thomas, Kyrou, Buch, Saad, and Barby before we even start considering wild card options to fill a very specific skill set. Our 2nd unit will have an adequate-to-very-good QB to choose from with Perunovich, Leddy, and Faulk all in the organization.

I'm not at all worried about the PP.

 

[Stealth JD]

Apparently it’ll be a daily thing from Dom.
NHL off-season improvement rankings
Blues are ranked 30th.

But I can’t argue with this one as obviously the Blues downgraded on paper. But he still omits Bozak leaving or the addition of Neighbors.

These off-season articles are just the worst. These guys are required to still pump out content but there’s literally next to nothing to talk about. So most of it is just garbage.

100% agree. I was surprised to learn, after reading Travis Yost at TSN, that the Blues RW depth is now Tarasenko-Kyrou-Noel Acciari-Matthew Highmore. I'd have understood speculation around Toropchenko, Brown, Walker, Kostin, Bolduc, even McGing...but referencing a guy who's not even listed on the Blues on-line roster? That's bold.

Travis Yost: Grading every NHL team's right wing depth | TSN

Travis Yost presents a multi-piece series grading every team’s lineup across the positional groups in tiered fashion, analyzing the depth charts across all positions and create talent tiers for all 32 franchises. We continue at right wing.

www.tsn.ca

 

[PocketNines]

I'd like to see a season team props thread. For example right now DraftKings has the Blues 8th most likely to come out of the West behind Colorado, Edmonton, Vegas, Minnesota, Calgary, LA and Nashville. They have the point over under at 95.5 and the -180/+150 on make/miss playoffs.

The Rangers at +380 to win the division behind Carolina and Pittsburgh seems like an opportunity. I wonder what the best price is on that.

 

[Stealth JD]

At what point do we start talking about the ‘22-23 squad and rebrand a few of these thread titles?

Should the Blues let 90 & 91 walk if they could instead offer MacKinnon $13M x 7?

Message to Colorado:

 

[ChicagoBlues]

At what point do we start talking about the ‘22-23 squad and rebrand a few of these thread titles?

Should the Blues let 90 & 91 walk if they could instead offer MacKinnon $13M x 7?

Message to Colorado:
View attachment 575347

They are #1! LOL

 

[DatDude44]

At what point do we start talking about the ‘22-23 squad and rebrand a few of these thread titles?

Should the Blues let 90 & 91 walk if they could instead offer MacKinnon $13M x 7?

Message to Colorado:
View attachment 575347

lmao, won't happen, but it would be glorious if it did

 

[Brian39]

At what point do we start talking about the ‘22-23 squad and rebrand a few of these thread titles?

Should the Blues let 90 & 91 walk if they could instead offer MacKinnon $13M x 7?

Colorado wouldn't let him get to UFA if Mac was willing to take an AAV of $13M and he would be offered more than $13M in UFA. He's still going to be 27 when he hits UFA (turning 28 just before the 2023/24 season starts). A 7 year deal is only going to take him to 34, so the "bad" years at the end won't be nearly as bad as the bad years on a guy who hits UFA at 29 or 30. He's also getting a full NMC for the duration of his contract, which probably takes us out of the running immediately.

Mac has played at a 107 point pace over the last 5 seasons. He has 93 points in 70 career playoff games (109 point pace) and has never finished below a point per game in the playoffs. He now has a Cup ring. He would be by far the biggest star to hit UFA in the salary cap era.

I'll be shocked if Colorado lets him hit free agency, but if he gets there it will be because he is trying to get every last dollar available to him. The max offer he could get in UFA is $16.7M and I wouldn't be surprised if an up and coming team offered it. We would be a far long shot to sign him with a $13M x 7 offer, so I definitely don't want to tailor our roster construction around taking that shot.