2021-2022 S Blues Multi-Purpose Thread Part 3

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Ok. So your beef is more with JR’s writing.
80% of the beef is with him and the remainder is just the state of sports reporting in general.

JR and the news aggregators who reposted/summarized/rephrased him and Perron's radio interview are just lazy. They know damn well that a 'formal offer' is a very small portion of a contract negotiation, but choose to leave that out in favor of the clicks they can generate with headlines/tweets like 'the Blues never even made an offer to Perron.'

The entire pitch of the Athletic was to put content behind a paywall so that the quality of writing would be more in depth and not influenced by clicks. That shows with a lot of their writers, but the JR's coverage feels more clicks-driven than before.
 
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80% of the beef is with him and the remainder is just the state of sports reporting in general.

JR and the new aggregators who reposted/summarized/rephrased him and Perron's radio interview are just lazy. They know damn well that a 'formal offer' is a very small portion of a contract negotiation, but choose to leave that out in favor of the clicks they can generate with a headlines/tweets like 'the Blues never even made an offer to Perron.'

The entire pitch of the Athletic was to put content behind a paywall so that the quality of writing would be more in depth and not influenced by clicks. That shows with a lot of their writers, but the JR's coverage feels more clicks-driven than before.
Most of their hockey coverage at Athletic is excellent, but JR is terrible.
 
JR's writing is worse at the Athletic than it was when he was with the Post-Dispatch. It looks like someone trying to write as a hockey insider, but without the actual background knowledge. He occasionally produces puff pieces that I enjoy, my favorite being the one with Blais' draft story.

But he has single-handedly butchered the Tarasenko reporting. This thing with Perron is more of the same.

Perron is probably my favorite Blues player of all time, and I was very sad to see him leave. But I also wasn't terribly surprised at it, because looking at the Cap situation and knowing what will be required next year to re-sign RFAs, and the LHD question, I didn't see how a fair contract for him really fit. Apparently, it didn't.

Armstrong didn't do anything malicious or unprofessional with Perron, from the facts that have been relayed. He certainly didn't do anything to string him along and cause him to pass up a better offer, which was self-evident when he signed the Detroit deal. JR's reporting of the situation has distorted things quite a bit.

I think Armstrong has made his bed to some degree with the way he handles media. He doesn't leak information and doesn't tolerate leaks. There have been limited times when he came out afterward and gave a public account of how a negotiation went, but I've never seen him allow public comments about a player contract negotiation while its still ongoing. So JR doesn't have "sources" in the Blues front office he can anonymously quote the way he likes to do.

I thought Emily Kaplan did an expert job as a traveling national reporter when she gave her account of an interview with Armstrong during a game where she was the sideline commentator during the season. She related the Tarasenko situation, and then asked Armstrong about it. I can't remember the exact wording, but she said something like, "I asked Doug Armstrong if Tarasenko was still on the market as a trade asset, and he would not comment. I think that tells the story." She was able to do her job without having a cooperative insider, because she asked questions and told us how they responded. Its a hell of a lot better than JR's pattern of giving people a platform for their agendas and crediting them as "anonymous sources". When you allow someone to be an anonymous source, there has to be a credible reason. They're a whistle-blower who is in danger, or they aren't authorized to pass on information their superiors don't want out, or etc. Its not just because its inconvenient for a player's agent to go on record. Allowing that gives people a chance to put out misinformation with no accountability, and that's exactly what has happened multiple times in his columns.

The Athletic has some excellent hockey journalists, and others that are just mediocre. JR seems like a nice guy, but he's one of the worst hockey people they have on staff. He's not a good journalist, and he's not an expert on hockey. You really need to be at least one of those things to do a decent job in the field.
 
I agree, more or less.

It appears that JR is a poor interviewer and it reflects in his writing.

He seems desperate and I don’t trust his “journalism”.
 
80% of the beef is with him and the remainder is just the state of sports reporting in general.

JR and the news aggregators who reposted/summarized/rephrased him and Perron's radio interview are just lazy. They know damn well that a 'formal offer' is a very small portion of a contract negotiation, but choose to leave that out in favor of the clicks they can generate with headlines/tweets like 'the Blues never even made an offer to Perron.'

The entire pitch of the Athletic was to put content behind a paywall so that the quality of writing would be more in depth and not influenced by clicks. That shows with a lot of their writers, but the JR's coverage feels more clicks-driven than before.
Most of the content JR publishes is just video from sources we have readily available to us. There isn’t a whole lot of self generated content. He isn’t out there hunting for stories. It’s mainly just what is there right in your face or things that fall into his lap. Lazy is a good way to explain it. And, for all his years around the game, he hasn’t really picked up all that much. So, the analysis falls flat. I get more quality analysis from writers not associated with the team, than those that are dedicated to the Blues.

For such a hockey town, there really aren’t any good hockey writers.
 
JR's writing is worse at the Athletic than it was when he was with the Post-Dispatch. It looks like someone trying to write as a hockey insider, but without the actual background knowledge. He occasionally produces puff pieces that I enjoy, my favorite being the one with Blais' draft story.

But he has single-handedly butchered the Tarasenko reporting. This thing with Perron is more of the same.

Perron is probably my favorite Blues player of all time, and I was very sad to see him leave. But I also wasn't terribly surprised at it, because looking at the Cap situation and knowing what will be required next year to re-sign RFAs, and the LHD question, I didn't see how a fair contract for him really fit. Apparently, it didn't.

Armstrong didn't do anything malicious or unprofessional with Perron, from the facts that have been relayed. He certainly didn't do anything to string him along and cause him to pass up a better offer, which was self-evident when he signed the Detroit deal. JR's reporting of the situation has distorted things quite a bit.

I think Armstrong has made his bed to some degree with the way he handles media. He doesn't leak information and doesn't tolerate leaks. There have been limited times when he came out afterward and gave a public account of how a negotiation went, but I've never seen him allow public comments about a player contract negotiation while its still ongoing. So JR doesn't have "sources" in the Blues front office he can anonymously quote the way he likes to do.

I thought Emily Kaplan did an expert job as a traveling national reporter when she gave her account of an interview with Armstrong during a game where she was the sideline commentator during the season. She related the Tarasenko situation, and then asked Armstrong about it. I can't remember the exact wording, but she said something like, "I asked Doug Armstrong if Tarasenko was still on the market as a trade asset, and he would not comment. I think that tells the story." She was able to do her job without having a cooperative insider, because she asked questions and told us how they responded. Its a hell of a lot better than JR's pattern of giving people a platform for their agendas and crediting them as "anonymous sources". When you allow someone to be an anonymous source, there has to be a credible reason. They're a whistle-blower who is in danger, or they aren't authorized to pass on information their superiors don't want out, or etc. Its not just because its inconvenient for a player's agent to go on record. Allowing that gives people a chance to put out misinformation with no accountability, and that's exactly what has happened multiple times in his columns.

The Athletic has some excellent hockey journalists, and others that are just mediocre. JR seems like a nice guy, but he's one of the worst hockey people they have on staff. He's not a good journalist, and he's not an expert on hockey. You really need to be at least one of those things to do a decent job in the field.
100% agree I like a guy like EF who will write something as “I think this but haven’t been able to confirm”. Or “I heard this but have been unable to confirm”. JR just repeats what agents feed him to get their story out. It’s journalistic malpractice.
 
Most of the content JR publishes is just video from sources we have readily available to us. There isn’t a whole lot of self generated content. He isn’t out there hunting for stories. It’s mainly just what is there right in your face or things that fall into his lap. Lazy is a good way to explain it. And, for all his years around the game, he hasn’t really picked up all that much. So, the analysis falls flat. I get more quality analysis from writers not associated with the team, than those that are dedicated to the Blues.

For such a hockey town, there really aren’t any good hockey writers.
Sadly, this is quite accurate. JR used to be ok but he seems to have taken a step back in recent years. Seems to have grown complacent.

And Thomas and Timmerman are just guys thrust into the position once JR left the Post Dispatch. They try but they’re even worse usually. Anytime I catch a post-game press conference, I cringe at the questions JT asks Berube.

Strickland actually has some hockey acumen but he’s too busy trying to get “scoops”, being self absorbed and writing things at a Jr high level to actually be relevant.
 
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Yeah, our coverage is lacking. On this story on Perron, I don’t really have a huge issue because it’s loaded with direct quotes. I think we have a pretty good idea of how it went down, and you have to connect a few dots but he had one side of it go on the record in great detail.

As JR went to The Athletic, I have seen how he gets exposed when he has to drift into analysis or opinion. At the P-D, I thought he was fine as a standard reporter but he struggles beyond that. Then, the way Tarasenko stuff went last summer was just bad reporting that I don’t believe he would have done, or at least been allowed to do, at the P-D, and I really soured on him from that experience. It’s like he lost access to the club side, and decided to be real lax and shoddy on the other side, either to overcompensate and/or to counterattack the org.
 
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I don't think JR is a great hockey writer, especially when he's attempting to write xs and os but I still have yet to see what he got wrong about the Tarasenko situation. He reported Tarasenko asked for a trade, which he did, for reasons that we're corroborated by other writers in the industry. He is not employed by the team and has no obligation to soften the story so the team saves face. If he wasn't reporting the facts, that'd be one thing, but considering the trade request has been confirmed active this off-season, you can't claim he didn't.
 
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I don't think JR is a great hockey writer, especially when he's attempting to write xs and os but I still have yet to see what he got wrong about the Tarasenko situation. He reported Tarasenko asked for a trade, which he did, for reasons that we're corroborated by other writers in the industry. He is not employed by the team and has no obligation to soften the story so the team saves face. If he wasn't reporting the facts, that'd be one thing, but considering the trade request has been confirmed active this off-season, you can't claim he didn't.

I thought the subsequent reporting that included commentary about his value not ever improving was exceptionally weak, and an obvious attempt to apply pressure via the media. Being a useful stooge for one side of the stand-off, and just laid forward one sides position as more of a matter of fact case than it clearly was.

Army held a much different view of the situation than we were presented with, and I am thankful for that.
 
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I subscribe to the Athletic and then cancel. Just not adding much value to everything else available. And the stories need more editing - usually way too long.

Lou Korac does some good stuff on his website.
 
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I don't think JR is a great hockey writer, especially when he's attempting to write xs and os but I still have yet to see what he got wrong about the Tarasenko situation. He reported Tarasenko asked for a trade, which he did, for reasons that we're corroborated by other writers in the industry. He is not employed by the team and has no obligation to soften the story so the team saves face. If he wasn't reporting the facts, that'd be one thing, but considering the trade request has been confirmed active this off-season, you can't claim he didn't.
I think his reporting of Tarasenko's opinion/stance/desire in the beginning was accurate (it should have been since his anonymous source was very obviously someone in Tarasenko's camp who wanted the story out there). No one's issue has been that he was incorrect about Tarasenko requesting a trade or that he misrepresented Tarasenko's desires. The issue is with his subsequent "reporting" of the situation.

Since the trade request came out, pretty much everything he has written about it has either been his own blind speculation or commentary from anonymous sources who had a clear interest in Tarasenko being moved. Every article he wrote for a 2+ month window was premised on the idea that Army had to trade him and was completely bungling the situation by asking for too much.

Like his article premised around an unnamed 'league source' who said "The trajectory doesn’t get any better,” the source said. “They shit on this guy … to their own detriment. It’s time to move him. The train has left the station.”

JR's guarantee that Tarasenko gets traded is appearing to age poorly: "And no, the relationship is not reparable. He will be traded. I usually don’t like guaranteeing anything, but I feel pretty comfortable guaranteeing this one." Tarasenko could still be traded before his contract expires and I do think that the relationship was damaged enough that an extension isn't happening (although given Army's history of offers to UFAs who are already 30+, I don't think we would have ever offered him close to his true market value). We can't say that JR was "wrong" about this guarantee yet, but I do think it is fair to recognize that this quote is an example of him either badly misreading Army's willingness to hold Tarasenko or an example of his willingness to push the narrative of a source.

But by far my biggest issue is JR's inability or unwillingness to demand/report crucial details from sources that he is carrying water for. We still have no idea how many teams Tarasenko was willing to waive his NTC for. Maybe it was the 10ish teams JR wrote about early last summer. Maybe "he will play almost anywhere" as JR wrote after the expansion draft. Although that seems unlikely given JR's report in the same article that Seattle declined to pick Tarasenko in part because his NTC made flipping him more complicated. We got crickets from JR regarding the notion that Tarasenko's trade value may have been negative last summer. A team had a chance to take him for free and passed in part because they weren't sure if they could trade him for an asset with salary retained. Rather than wondering what that meant for his trade value, JR doubled down on the idea that it was the Blues' handling of the situation that destroyed his trade value. For someone who cited tons of anonymous league sources, it is baffling that we never even got a whiff of the types of packages being offered for him.

At the end of the day, JR's reporting of the Tarasenko situation has been very incomplete. He has (or at least had) a great source from Tarasenko's camp that he agreed to leave anonymous in order to push the desired narrative from Tarasenko's camp. After that, he either peppered in a lot of his own speculation (or the source's opinion) as definitive statements that a trade was the only realistic option for Army until the eve of camp when it became clear that wasn't happening. He repeatedly emphasized how broken the relationship was, but was never able to (publicly) pin down exactly how many teams Tarasenko was willing to go to. We never heard what Tarasenko's trade value was last summer. We got months of his reporting blasting the team for mishandling the situation without any information about what the potential trade returns were. And then at the end of the year Tarasenko was our leading scorer and the idea that Army should have just taken the best offer on the table looked pretty silly.

I don't think JR misreported any specific facts in his Tarasenko coverage. But he absolutely wrote about the matter with a specific narrative and that narrative turned out to be a complete misread of the situation.
 
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JR's writing is worse at the Athletic than it was when he was with the Post-Dispatch. It looks like someone trying to write as a hockey insider, but without the actual background knowledge. He occasionally produces puff pieces that I enjoy, my favorite being the one with Blais' draft story.

But he has single-handedly butchered the Tarasenko reporting. This thing with Perron is more of the same.

Perron is probably my favorite Blues player of all time, and I was very sad to see him leave. But I also wasn't terribly surprised at it, because looking at the Cap situation and knowing what will be required next year to re-sign RFAs, and the LHD question, I didn't see how a fair contract for him really fit. Apparently, it didn't.

Armstrong didn't do anything malicious or unprofessional with Perron, from the facts that have been relayed. He certainly didn't do anything to string him along and cause him to pass up a better offer, which was self-evident when he signed the Detroit deal. JR's reporting of the situation has distorted things quite a bit.

I think Armstrong has made his bed to some degree with the way he handles media. He doesn't leak information and doesn't tolerate leaks. There have been limited times when he came out afterward and gave a public account of how a negotiation went, but I've never seen him allow public comments about a player contract negotiation while its still ongoing. So JR doesn't have "sources" in the Blues front office he can anonymously quote the way he likes to do.

I thought Emily Kaplan did an expert job as a traveling national reporter when she gave her account of an interview with Armstrong during a game where she was the sideline commentator during the season. She related the Tarasenko situation, and then asked Armstrong about it. I can't remember the exact wording, but she said something like, "I asked Doug Armstrong if Tarasenko was still on the market as a trade asset, and he would not comment. I think that tells the story." She was able to do her job without having a cooperative insider, because she asked questions and told us how they responded. Its a hell of a lot better than JR's pattern of giving people a platform for their agendas and crediting them as "anonymous sources". When you allow someone to be an anonymous source, there has to be a credible reason. They're a whistle-blower who is in danger, or they aren't authorized to pass on information their superiors don't want out, or etc. Its not just because its inconvenient for a player's agent to go on record. Allowing that gives people a chance to put out misinformation with no accountability, and that's exactly what has happened multiple times in his columns.

The Athletic has some excellent hockey journalists, and others that are just mediocre. JR seems like a nice guy, but he's one of the worst hockey people they have on staff. He's not a good journalist, and he's not an expert on hockey. You really need to be at least one of those things to do a decent job in the field.
Anonymous sources are used all the time by writers, that's part of how you gain sources and don't lose them. You are complaining about them as not being credible when you don't even know who they are. It sounds like you more or less don't really understand the industry and are just shouting at clouds about it.

I'm not even a huge JR fan but a lot of you just complain because his 'sources' are saying things that you don't like to read.
 
If you have one source and your reporting is unwilling to interrogate that source for accuracy, and subsequently the accuracy of that source is proven inaccurate by events and you don't investigate your own story to find out what went awry then you are a bad gambler journalist.

The core of journalism is judgment. Hello.
 
Anonymous sources are used all the time by writers, that's part of how you gain sources and don't lose them. You are complaining about them as not being credible when you don't even know who they are. It sounds like you more or less don't really understand the industry and are just shouting at clouds about it.

I'm not even a huge JR fan but a lot of you just complain because his 'sources' are saying things that you don't like to read.
I don’t disagree, but the other side of the coin is to view things from the other side or at least acknowledge you haven’t gotten their perspective. Don’t just assume a source can provide all of the info/context. JR is lazy in that way. He parrots things from only one Side far too often. It’s not even a matter of “I don’t like the side he is representing”, rather that only one side is represented and it’s sold as the only vantage point.

I guess this problem isn’t exclusive to JR though. Too much of our mainstream media these days provide a single vantage view of the situation. Regardless, each individual journalist is responsible for their playing into that mindset/approach.
 
If you have one source and your reporting is unwilling to interrogate that source for accuracy, and subsequently the accuracy of that source is proven inaccurate by events and you don't investigate your own story to find out what went awry then you are a bad gambler journalist.

The core of journalism is judgment. Hello.
Couldn't agree more.

I'm fine with JR citing an anonymous source telling him that the Blues miscalculated the market, are asking for too much, and are tanking Tarasenko's trade value by not moving him sooner. But it is horrific reporting to turn that into a full article which includes absolutely zero information (or even rumors) about what the Blues are/were asking for or what types of packages were/are being offered.

A passable article would have at least demanded that the source provide some details about the Blues' asking price and what the actual market was looking like. Not tiny details, but at least a general framework to illustrate that the source has enough info to reach his conclusion. For example: "The source tells me that the Blues won't retain salary and are asking for a roster player and a 1st round pick. He believes that the best offer they have gotten is a 1st round pick that is contingent on them retaining salary"

A good article would include that info AND indicate that another source corroborated/confirmed some details. For example: "The source tells me that the Blues won't retain salary and are asking for a roster player and a 1st round pick. He believes that the best offer they have gotten is a 1st round pick that is contingent on them retaining salary. Another team executive confirmed that the Blues are looking for two assets in any Tarasenko deal."

Publishing a source's opinion with zero actual information supporting it is bad journalism.
 
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Two completely different things. Perron wanted to be here but because of cap and other reasons DA parted ways. Tarasenko doesn't even want to be here anymore. Tarasenko is going to play out his contract here (if he doesn't get traded) and bounce.
I agree with all you say here. And we all know Tarasenko will play out the year and leave for another team as a UFA. But, Army didn't need to string Tarasenko along by saying that he would like to keep him IF he can solve the cap problems by cutting other salaries, when both he and Tarasenko KNEW that EVEN if Army would, by some miracle, be able to clear enough cap room to sign Tarasenko to a short-term contract, he wouldn't, under any possible circumstance, sign Tarasenko to the longer-term contract he wants (say 6-8 years). Tarasenko is also peeved at Army for not protecting him in Seattle's Expansion Draft.

In any case, Tarasenko was never going to sign just a 2-4 year extension with The cap-strapped Blues, when he can get a 7 or 8-year, possibly higher (relative) AAV deal with another acceptable team (he won't have to go to an undesirable landing spot, like Arizona or a high taxes Canadian team. So, Army would have been better off to have just been 100% Frank with him.
 
Don't forget Ironman Carlo Colaiacovo
Who? This guy?

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