2020 Roster and Fantasy GM Thread II

[Bleach Clean]

In a theoretical scenario where Jack Eichel becomes more disgruntled with the Sabres and asks for a trade, would you push to get him and what would we be able to offer?

6 years of Eichel is worth more than anything this team could realistically trade. They would have to trade cap, futures they don’t have and key pieces from an already thin core.

Anything not named Pettersson and Hughes is on the table. And those two are held back because the base to win would have to be these 3, otherwise why do it?

 

[Cogburn]

In a theoretical scenario where Jack Eichel becomes more disgruntled with the Sabres and asks for a trade, would you push to get him and what would we be able to offer?

Both of our next two first round picks.
Boeser
Sutter (Cap reasons)
Stecher's RFA rights
Gaudette's RFA rights
Hoglander
Demko

for

Eichel
Ristolainen

Petterson-Eichel-Miller
Pearson-Horvat-Toffoli
Roussel-MacEwen-Virtanen
Motte-Beagle-Ferland
Edler-Ristolainen
Hughes-Tanev
Benn/Fantenberg/UFA-Myers
Markstrom
Domingue/Bachman/UFA/DiPietro

 

[Cogburn]

Demko seems the likeliest to be traded for a D

Detroit has little goaltending after Bernier.

Demko+Baertschi (a cap dump of limited negative-to-neutral appeal) for one of McIsaac (looks to be a good all around LD), Hronek (if we can manage to talk them into it, he was pacing at 37 points) or Lindstrom (he reminds me a lot of Tanev...lanky, sound positionally, way more poise then a 20 year old has any business having, RHD), then I'd count the trade a win. I'd also be curious about Zadina or Rasmussen too, but I think one is still way more valuable than Demko, and the other is really hit or miss.

 

[Cogburn]

I think people are underestimating what the UFA season may look like. There is the much talked about flat cap... but there is another far greater issue for UFAs. How many owners are going to want to write a cheque whenever free agency kicks off? And how many are going to want to be as far away from the cap ceiling as they can get? We keep throwing around pre-Covid numbers, but are there really going to be a lot of owners out there looking to increase payroll? And the ones that might are likely the ones already at the cap ceiling.

We don’t even know if there will be fans in the buildings for next season. And if there are, how curtailed will attendance be? State and Provincial laws may severely restrict numbers. And even if by some miracle they can fill all their stadiums... will they? The recession is real and there will be less disposable income to go around. Not to mention, the threat of another wave and another round of restrictions. It’s hard to see how the NHL won’t see a significant drop of revenue when play resumes.

I think there is a good chance we’ll see players retiring earlier than usual (especially if they are near the end and face the prospect of having to quarantine from family or play for a significant pay cut), others not even offered a contract, and others signing a one year deal for far less than they had hoped. I think there will be quite a few owners willing to gamble on a young ELC player rather than writing a large cheque.

Financially, high tides raise all boats. I don't see the cap going down, if that's what you're worried about (at least not with out a compliance buy out). As for contract negotiations, this year we have Toffoli, Markstrom and Tanev as our significant UFAs, and Virtanen, Gaudette and maybe Stecher as our significant RFAs.

If everyone is hit by a cap crunch, I don't see the costs going anywhere but down to resign most of our guys. Markstrom and Tanev might be signing a short term deal due to the expansion draft anyway, and while Toffoli is preferred, he is not the only scoring winger available. He seems like he wants to win though, and he has a chance here, where as a bottom feeder like New Jersey or Buffalo aren't great prospects for that. We also have his buddy Pearson as leverage too.

There may be an advantage to a flat cap for the Canucks.

 

[vanuck]

Both of our next two first round picks.
Boeser
Sutter (Cap reasons)
Stecher's RFA rights
Gaudette's RFA rights
Hoglander
Demko

for

Eichel
Ristolainen

Petterson-Eichel-Miller
Pearson-Horvat-Toffoli
Roussel-MacEwen-Virtanen
Motte-Beagle-Ferland
Edler-Ristolainen
Hughes-Tanev
Benn/Fantenberg/UFA-Myers
Markstrom
Domingue/Bachman/UFA/DiPietro

Not that I think we should be going after Eichel, but I'm curious to know why after doing all this you'd put MacEwen - who hasn't played the middle in at least 3 years now - at 3C?

 

[Cogburn]

Not that I think we should be going after Eichel, but I'm curious to know why after doing all this you'd put MacEwen - who hasn't played the middle in at least 3 years now - at 3C?

We shouldn't be...but the question was asked.

Mac is 3C because...well we have clear top six guys at C, and Beagle. I wouldn't hate seeing if Motte can deliver, he's listed as W/C.

Conversely we could spread the wings out a little and do Eichel-Pettersson as our top six, and put Miller or Horvat with Roussel and Ferland. I suppose it depends on how one thinks some of our bottom six guys can do in a scoring role.

...if Eichel was a player we could realistically go for.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Detroit has little goaltending after Bernier.

Demko+Baertschi (a cap dump of limited negative-to-neutral appeal) for one of McIsaac (looks to be a good all around LD), Hronek (if we can manage to talk them into it, he was pacing at 37 points) or Lindstrom (he reminds me a lot of Tanev...lanky, sound positionally, way more poise then a 20 year old has any business having, RHD), then I'd count the trade a win. I'd also be curious about Zadina or Rasmussen too, but I think one is still way more valuable than Demko, and the other is really hit or miss.

And then do what with our goaltending?

Hronek for demko would be thievery!

 

[Cogburn]

And then do what with our goaltending?

Hronek for demko would be thievery!

Sign Marky to what ever he wants, and then audition DP or resign Domingue.

I agree, it's not a likely trade, but McIsaac or Lindstrom I think would be slanted in our favor as well. They have several young players at most positions, except for goaltending...so it doesn't have to be D, but I think Demko or DP to Detroit makes a ton of sense.

 

[HockeyWooot]

Both of our next two first round picks.
Boeser
Sutter (Cap reasons)
Stecher's RFA rights
Gaudette's RFA rights
Hoglander
Demko

for

Eichel
Ristolainen

Petterson-Eichel-Miller
Pearson-Horvat-Toffoli
Roussel-MacEwen-Virtanen
Motte-Beagle-Ferland
Edler-Ristolainen
Hughes-Tanev
Benn/Fantenberg/UFA-Myers
Markstrom
Domingue/Bachman/UFA/DiPietro

Appreciate the feedback. In this theoretical scenario I do wonder if a former 2OA that requests out (trade demand) would hold the same value?

The following was what I had in mind when I first posed the question.

Eichel
Depth player/B prospect

for

Boeser
Gaudette
Demko or a 1st (mid round)
Roussel/Sutter/Ferland (Cap Reasons)

I would do that from a Canucks perspective, but an argument can be made it’s not worth it for one player.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Appreciate the feedback. In this theoretical scenario I do wonder if a former 2OA that requests out (trade demand) would hold the same value?

The following was what I had in mind when I first posed the question.

Eichel
Depth player/B prospect

for

Boeser
Gaudette
Demko or a 1st (mid round)
Roussel/Sutter/Ferland (Cap Reasons)

I would do that from a Canucks perspective, but an argument can be made it’s not worth it for one player.

Can you make this argument? I'm curious as to what the rationale will be.

IMO, those assets do not get you close to getting Eichel. I think you would need to include Horvat into the deal to start. BUF is looking to compete now and Gaudette is not enough help at C for them to do that.

 

[VanillaCoke]

That probably doesn't get you half an eichel

 

[m9]

The conversation starts with Horvat, Podkolzin & a 1st and then goes from there.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Would the following be enough?

Horvat
Boeser
This year’s 1st (assuming it’s a lottery pick)
Demko
Stecher
Hoglander

Maybe Podkolzin in to replace Hoglander?

 

[HockeyWooot]

Can you make this argument? I'm curious as to what the rationale will be.

IMO, those assets do not get you close to getting Eichel. I think you would need to include Horvat into the deal to start. BUF is looking to compete now and Gaudette is not enough help at C for them to do that.

Good point, you are right. I actually had Horvat initially as I was typing my post, though after mulling over I considered our GMs propensity to trade away 1st round picks ...so upgraded the third piece and downgraded the second piece.

If the above is a more initial bid, the following is probably closer to their last counter which gets it done.

Boeser
Horvat
Hoglander/lower pick
Roussel/Sutter/Ferland

I don’t think a six asset package (incl Podkolzin/1st/Demko) is worth it. Seeing how hockey is both a team sport and a young mans game, I can’t foresee gutting too many parts your young core and mortgaging the future at the same time will have you come out ahead.

Giving up two younger first line caliber players for a top ten player the same age bracket is more than fair, if not a slight overpayment to outbid others and get it done.

It’s really interesting that just a few years ago trading Bo and Boeser would be unthinkable let alone in the same trade, and now we could arguably afford to do so and potentially be worthwhile.

Interested to hear everyone’s thoughts on value, as well as which teams that could outbid us (top line roster assets not all futures) without making their team considerably worse off.

 

[Horse McHindu]

The conversation starts with Horvat, Podkolzin & a 1st and then goes from there.

That would definitely be a starting point for sure. I would also see if I could replace the 1st with Virtanen (Bo/Pod/Virt) so that it comes closer to matching from a cap standpoint (remember - we’d be absorbing Eichel’s 10 million in cap and we’re already up against the cap). Or, just add Virtanen to your proposed package.

If the Canucks could have......

Pearson-Eichel-Boeser
Miller-Pettersson-Toffoli

As their top 6, we’d likely enter the top 1/3rd of the league....maybe even 1/4th.

Another hidden advantage in having Eichel here, is that it possibly sets an internal cap (ie No one makes more than 10 million), and so perhaps this would get us ‘buy in’ from Petey and Hughes.

Having said all of this, I think Eichel is a pipe dream.

If the Canucks were to successfully trade for Eichel (which I can’t see happening), they would also need to trade for a center that can take on match-ups and defensive zone face-offs, etc. (similar to what Kerfoot does in Toronto and what O’Reilly does for the Blues).

It’s a nice pipe dream but I just don’t see it happening.

 

[Blue and Green]

It's not even a nice pipe dream. There's no particular need for Eichel here and his cap hit is huge. What the Canucks need most is a Charlie McAvoy clone.

 

[Orr4Norris]

I think if you trade for Eichel, Petey goes the other way.

 

[Horse McHindu]

It's not even a nice pipe dream. There's no particular need for Eichel here and his cap hit is huge. What the Canucks need most is a Charlie McAvoy clone.

Agreed. Eichel was only being mentioned because there are rumors that he’s unhappy.

I agree with you about a McAvoy clone.

I’m not sure if Noah Dobson would fit that bill (McAvoy clone), but I wonder if the Islanders would be interested in a Podkolzin/Dobson swap (Podkolzin is the better prospect but Dobson plays a more important position and so perhaps it could be considered an even move?).

If the Canucks are committed to keeping both Toffoli and Boeser here for the long term, then we’d have a lockjam on the right side anyways.

The Islanders already have a good RD prospect in Bode Wilde (although granted, he’s not Dobson) and so perhaps the Isles wouldn’t mind balancing things out a bit.

 

[BB06]

Looking at our right wing depth if we sign Toffoli

-Boeser
-Toffoli
-Virtanen
-Lind
-Podkolzin

Somethings gotta give if we go that route. I think moving Virtanen+ for a top 4 Dmen and signing Leivo for cheap in a middle six role could work (Leivo's shown he could play RW next to Horvat this year/anywhere in the lineup). Not sure if Podkolzin can play left-wing could anyone who follows him clue me in? I'd hate for the Canucks to sign Toffoli and block Podkolzin's path into a top 6 role which should be considered before re-signing him.

 

[604]

Would the following be enough?

Horvat
Boeser
This year’s 1st (assuming it’s a lottery pick)
Demko
Stecher
Hoglander

Maybe Podkolzin in to replace Hoglander?

Wouldn't it just be easier to sign Pietrangelo for $11-12m x 7? I think given their roles and positions Pietrangelo would be more transformative than Eichel since we already have Pettersson and Horvat. Eichel's cap hit is $10m, so Pietrangelo wouldn't be much more expensive.

A Detroit fan said on the trade board they would take Demko and Eriksson as a pair for nothing. Add that trade to the Pietrangelo signing and you get to keep Horvat + Boeser + 1st + Hoglander + Stecher and IMO end up with the more vital player and more cap flexibility and options.

An Ottawa fan also noted that Bobby Ryan @ 50% retained for Eriksson would save us $2.25m x 2 years in cap (Eriksson = $6m x 2 years; Ryan = $7.5m x 50% = $3.75m x 2 years) and would save Ottawa $1.5m in real cash (after next year signing bonus Eriksson = $5m cash; Ryan = $13m x 50% = $6.5 cash) , so it might make sense...it completely makes sense at some percentage or with a pick to even things out.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Appreciate the feedback. In this theoretical scenario I do wonder if a former 2OA that requests out (trade demand) would hold the same value?

The following was what I had in mind when I first posed the question.

Eichel
Depth player/B prospect

for

Boeser
Gaudette
Demko or a 1st (mid round)
Roussel/Sutter/Ferland (Cap Reasons)

I would do that from a Canucks perspective, but an argument can be made it’s not worth it for one player.

In a hypothetical situation where we’d try and trade for Eichel, I don’t see the logic in trading Boeser. It would be like robbing Peter to pay Paul (or robbing Pranesh to pay Prahast). If anything, you would have to move Horvat in this case so that both Eichel and Pettersson would have capable scoring wingers playing with them (I.e. Boeser and Toffoli on both right sides). Not including Horvat in a package for Eichel would inappropriately place Horvat on the 3rd line.

 

[Bleach Clean]

It's not even a nice pipe dream. There's no particular need for Eichel here and his cap hit is huge. What the Canucks need most is a Charlie McAvoy clone.

Eichel is worth every bit of that cap hit and every team needs an elite player for non-elite players.

Of course McAvoy would be a better fit. What do you think it takes to get him?

Would the following be enough?

Horvat
Boeser
This year’s 1st (assuming it’s a lottery pick)
Demko
Stecher
Hoglander

Maybe Podkolzin in to replace Hoglander?

I'm going to revise this because I just don't think the Canucks can afford to give up so much. Another team would make for a better fit. From the Canucks, the max I would do is:


Horvat
This year’s 1st (assuming it’s a 10+ lottery pick)
Demko
Virtanen
Roussel (sort of a salary dump)

Then hopefully you can dump Sutter somewhere in order to make it all fit.

Anything more and the team just doesn't have enough gas to compete right away.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Wouldn't it just be easier to sign Pietrangelo for $11-12m x 7? I think given their roles and positions Pietrangelo would be more transformative than Eichel since we already have Pettersson and Horvat. Eichel's cap hit is $10m, so Pietrangelo wouldn't be much more expensive.

A Detroit fan said on the trade board they would take Demko and Eriksson as a pair for nothing. Add that trade to the Pietrangelo signing and you get to keep Horvat + Boeser + 1st + Hoglander + Stecher and IMO end up with the more vital player and more cap flexibility and options.

An Ottawa fan also noted that Bobby Ryan @ 50% retained for Eriksson would save us $2.25m x 2 years in cap (Eriksson = $6m x 2 years; Ryan = $7.5m x 50% = $3.75m x 2 years) and would save Ottawa $1.5m in real cash (after next year signing bonus Eriksson = $5m cash; Ryan = $13m x 50% = $6.5 cash) , so it might make sense...it completely makes sense at some percentage or with a pick to even things out.

Yes, it would be a lot easier to just sign Pietrangelo.

I wouldn't send Demko to dump Eriksson. Hope there's a compliance buyout instead.

OTT fans willing to trade Ryan at 50% retention for Eriksson? Intriguing. Worth a look.

On Demko: If Markstrom is signed and there's a compliance buyout for Eriksson, then trading Demko+Sutter during the season for a mid-aged RHD on a mediocre contract makes sense. This gets things done before the Expansion Draft and they get in-season help for the right side.

 

[Blue and Green]

Eichel is worth every bit of that cap hit and every team needs an elite player for non-elite players.

Of course McAvoy would be a better fit. What do you think it takes to get him?

Canucks already have a young centre who is on track to be every bit as good as Eichel plus a solid 2C who is also the team captain. Eichel is worth his cap hit but his role is not the one where the Canucks are most in need.

Bruins aren't going to trade McAvoy. The point is, that's the right type of guy at the right position who also doesn't eat up as much cap space. That's the kind of player for whom they could justify parting with a high-end asset such as Boeser.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Canucks already have a young centre who is on track to be every bit as good as Eichel plus a solid 2C who is also the team captain. Eichel is worth his cap hit but his role is not the one where the Canucks are most in need.

Bruins aren't going to trade McAvoy. The point is, that's the right type of guy at the right position who also doesn't eat up as much cap space. That's the kind of player for whom they could justify parting with a high-end asset such as Boeser.

Any time a franchise talent like Eichel is potentially available, a trade like that becomes a need. Pettersson-Eichel would be Crosby-Malkin. A night to night competitive advantage against 27~ other teams. They would tilt the ice every night.

Realistically, less than what I had originally posted is enough to get him. However, logically, you could add another 3-4 pieces to what I had originally posted and it would still be a trade win. VAN would be getting a franchise level talent for lesser players.

I'm all for McAvoy too. Are you saying that he is worth Boeser+ and Eichel is not?