2020 Roster and Fantasy GM Thread II

[Hoghandler]

Why lock up those bad assets to long-term bloated contracts to begin with then?

Having bad contracts is bad. Sure.

 

[iceburg]

Ok, now are we allowed to talk about the D-propsect pool including Rathbone...

As I've said before Rathbone, Rafferty, Tryamkin, Woo, and Juolevi make a decent prospect pool. I'm hopeful that 3 of the 5 will have impactful NHL careers - not saying who, just going by the numbers. Any more than 3 would be a homerun. Any less would be a disappointment.
After Tanev and Edler are gone, if the 3 that make it are added to Hughes, Stecher, and Myers, they will have a decent group. There could be an imbalance of offensive D-men over more defensive oriented guys but that will depend on who of these 5 make it.
In any case, what they appear to be missing is a top pairing right side D. I don't see any of the prospects filling this role and, if Myers or Stecher fill that role, it won't go well.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Ok, now are we allowed to talk about the D-propsect pool including Rathbone...

As I've said before Rathbone, Rafferty, Tryamkin, Woo, and Juolevi make a decent prospect pool. I'm hopeful that 3 of the 5 will have impactful NHL careers - not saying who, just going by the numbers. Any more than 3 would be a homerun. Any less would be a disappointment.
After Tanev and Edler are gone, if the 3 that make it are added to Hughes, Stecher, and Myers, they will have a decent group. There could be an imbalance of offensive D-men over more defensive oriented guys but that will depend on who of these 5 make it.
In any case, what they appear to be missing is a top pairing right side D. I don't see any of the prospects filling this role and, if Myers or Stecher fill that role, it won't go well.

I think that's being incredibly optimistic. We'd be lucky at this point if 1 one of those 5 turns into a top 4 defenceman. Tryamkin has reportedly declined as a player since leaving the NHL, Rafferty could turn into a Yannick Weber type and right now Woo, Juolevi and Rathbone are all just prospects with Juolevi looking more and more like a bust. Rathbone seems like the best bet but there are never any guarantees. We definitely need at least 1 to become a bonafide top 4 defenceman but whether that happens or not I have my doubts. It's a shame as the team has spent as many high picks on defenceman over the past few years as any other team in the league and thus far we only have Hughes (who admittedly makes up for a few of those misses) as an actual legitimate NHL defenceman.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The same reason 80% of the league will likely be looking to do the same thing. To fit the best team possible under a flat salary cap.

So a negative action you think will be prevalent league wide, that hasn’t happened, means that this team should preemptively do that same negative action?

Further, why are we paying to move Benning’s mistakes? Robbing from the thin pipeline to cover for his errors?

 

[Bleach Clean]

If we don’t then we are tight to cap and won’t be able to resign many (if any of toffoli, markstrom, tanev) and potentially are team takes a step back due to lack of skill in key spots. Don’t get me wrong I am not really happy with idea of losing podz, hog, 1st.... but with some creativity there has to be an option to relieve at least a little cap space.

Then the team is tight to the cap. There’s a certain amount of short term pain this team will have to endure because of terrible management. That’s just the way it is.

 

[Hoghandler]

So a negative action you think will be prevalent league wide, that hasn’t happened, means that this team should preemptively do that same negative action?

Further, why are we paying to move Benning’s mistakes? Robbing from the thin pipeline to cover for his errors?

Not sure which part of this confuses you. The cap is flat, which will force a bunch of teams to pursue deals to open up cap flexibility. The Canucks will be one of those teams.

None of the names I listed will be ‘robbing a thin pipeline’.

 

[Blue and Green]

There are a lot of variables due to present circumstances; until those shake out, no one knows what will happen next season. There's no guarantee that the league will even play next season. The playoffs this summer are no guarantee.

If the NHL operates but the AHL doesn't, teams will carry extra players. That would eliminate the need for anything more than a 20-man roster and would make a real difference for teams in a cap squeeze. It would be especially helpful for the Canucks whose AHL franchise is currently based on the other side of the continent in a small city without direct flights.

 

[iceburg]

I think that's being incredibly optimistic. We'd be lucky at this point if 1 one of those 5 turns into a top 4 defenceman. Tryamkin has reportedly declined as a player since leaving the NHL, Rafferty could turn into a Yannick Weber type and right now Woo, Juolevi and Rathbone are all just prospects with Juolevi looking more and more like a bust. Rathbone seems like the best bet but there are never any guarantees. We definitely need at least 1 to become a bonafide top 4 defenceman but whether that happens or not I have my doubts. It's a shame as the team has spent as many high picks on defenceman over the past few years as any other team in the league and thus far we only have Hughes (who admittedly makes up for a few of those misses) as an actual legitimate NHL defenceman.

I agree with you on Rafferty. He had a great AHL season but Clendening and Pouliot were not far behind him in scoring. Of the 5 I think Woo is the longest shot. His down year last year could be an anomaly or a sign of things to come. I disagree on Tryamkin. I'm of the opinion that, if he comes over, he will have an impact. I don't see the decline you refer to. If you can cite the report, I'd love to read it. Juolevi may never overcome the negative impressions because of his draft position. But, if the expectation perception wasn't there, he would be viewed as a decent D-prospect close to the NHL.
Maybe you're right, maybe 1 of 5 will make it. And that would be a disappointment. I have taken and standby the position that these 5 need to be tested in the NHL as soon as reasonable and, if they show they don't project to have an NHL impact, the team needs to move on quickly. They need to ensure they have a good supportive cast for the core forwards and Hughes. Horvat is already 25.

 

[tradervik]

If the Canucks squeeze their RFAs (Virtanen, Gaudette, Stecher, Motte and MacEwen), they have enough cap to sign Tryamkin for $2,000,000 and possibly sign one of the big three UFAs (Toffoli, Tanev, and Markstrom). Markstrom is the most valuable player in that group but he's old and the Canucks have Demko. Tanev is old and is clearly declining. Toffoli is the youngest and showed great chemistry with Pettersson.

Miller Pettersson Toffoli
Pearson Horvat Boeser
Roussel Gaudette Virtanen
Motte Beagle Sutter
Ferland/MacEwen

Hughes Myers
Edler Stecher
Benn Tryamkin
Rafferty/Rathbone

Demko
Mike Smith

Buried:
Eriksson
Baertschi

Buyout/Cap recapture
Spooner
Luongo

This avoids ruinous deals to move out bad contracts and, by avoiding buyouts, conserves cap space for the following season when the Canucks will need to extend Pettersson and Hughes.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Then the team is tight to the cap. There’s a certain amount of short term pain this team will have to endure because of terrible management. That’s just the way it is.

I get your point but it could be just as (if not) harmful to go that route... we could be undoing the good level and quality of team we have here. It’s one thing if it’s a one year situation to endure but it’s not, we have a few to “tough” through. Not to mention we have some of our best players on cheaper entry level contracts, so you could argue that now is the time to be serious about contending.

 

[Hoghandler]

If the Canucks squeeze their RFAs (Virtanen, Gaudette, Stecher, Motte and MacEwen), they have enough cap to sign Tryamkin for $2,000,000 and possibly sign one of the big three UFAs (Toffoli, Tanev, and Markstrom). Markstrom is the most valuable player in that group but he's old and the Canucks have Demko. Tanev is old and is clearly declining. Toffoli is the youngest and showed great chemistry with Pettersson.

Miller Pettersson Toffoli
Pearson Horvat Boeser
Roussel Gaudette Virtanen
Motte Beagle Sutter
Ferland/MacEwen

Hughes Myers
Edler Stecher
Benn Tryamkin
Rafferty/Rathbone

Demko
Mike Smith

Buried:
Eriksson
Baertschi

Buyout/Cap recapture
Spooner
Luongo

This avoids ruinous deals to move out bad contracts and, by avoiding buyouts, conserves cap space for the following season when the Canucks will need to extend Pettersson and Hughes.

Would much prefer to give Stecher/Tryamkin’s money to Tanev, let Stecher walk or deal his rights and see if Tryamkin can be used as a sweetener to unload another contract. Also find a new home for Benn.

 

[tradervik]

I get your point but it could be just as (if not) harmful to go that route... we could be undoing the good level and quality of team we have here. It’s one thing if it’s a one year situation to endure but it’s not, we have a few to “tough” through. Not to mention we have some of our best players on cheaper entry level contracts, so you could argue that now is the time to be serious about contending.

To me, undoing the level and quality of the team would be to trade future assets in order to sign a couple of aging players to bad contracts (and they're pretty much guaranteed to be bad). Getting rid of bad contracts was going to be difficult before the pandemic. Now I think it's nearly impossible for a team like the Canucks that does not have a well stocked cupboard.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Dunn is redundant with the Rathbone signing. And the Blues are looking to shed cap, not take more on. Dunn would have been a decent target if Rathbone didn’t sign.

Jack Rathbone does not make Vince Dunn redundant

 

[y2kcanucks]

Having bad contracts is bad. Sure.

Yes, having bad contracts is bad. So why did we accumulate so many bad contracts?

 

[kcunac]

We can't afford the price to move Eriksson. I think with sitting out the Baertschi contract is likley gone (trade, move to Europe, mutual termination).

If the cap wasn't flat, that might be enough to sign our FAs but with no increase something more is needed and i think the best candidate is Brandon Sutter to be (hopefully) traded or bought out.

With simply moving Baertschi's contract and buying out Sutter (and Ferland on LTIR), i have managed the following roster on capfriendly (signing amount in brackets):

Miller - Pettersson - Toffoli (4.5)
Pearson - Horvat - Boeser
Leivo (1.5) - Gaudette (1.5) - Virtanen (2.5)
Eriksson - Beagle - Roussel
Motte (1.0) - MacEwan (925k)

Edler - Myers
Hughes - Tanev (4.5)
Tryamkin (2.0) Stecher (2.35 his QO)
Rathbone (925K)

Matkstrom (5.5)
Demko

In this scenerio even with burying Benn in minors (buy-out provides no benefit but burying provides depth), we can still make the cap work for a 23 man roster. Maybe it is unlikely that all sign for these amounts, but if not then a guy like Toffoli walks and we keep Sutter. Just to say the situation ismt great but could be worse. The above is a solid roster (IMO).

 

[iceburg]

If the Canucks squeeze their RFAs (Virtanen, Gaudette, Stecher, Motte and MacEwen), they have enough cap to sign Tryamkin for $2,000,000 and possibly sign one of the big three UFAs (Toffoli, Tanev, and Markstrom). Markstrom is the most valuable player in that group but he's old and the Canucks have Demko. Tanev is old and is clearly declining. Toffoli is the youngest and showed great chemistry with Pettersson.

Miller Pettersson Toffoli
Pearson Horvat Boeser
Roussel Gaudette Virtanen
Motte Beagle Sutter
Ferland/MacEwen

Hughes Myers
Edler Stecher
Benn Tryamkin
Rafferty/Rathbone

Demko
Mike Smith

Buried:
Eriksson
Baertschi

Buyout/Cap recapture
Spooner
Luongo

This avoids ruinous deals to move out bad contracts and, by avoiding buyouts, conserves cap space for the following season when the Canucks will need to extend Pettersson and Hughes.

They will try to figure out a way to sing both Markstrom and Toffoli before they sing Tryamkin. It's a pipe dream but offloading one of Sutter, Beagle, or Eriksson could allow them to sign all three.

 

[Hoghandler]

Jack Rathbone does not make Vince Dunn redundant

He makes him a poor target, if you think Jack Rathbone is legit.

If the Canucks target a dman, it should be a right side guy that defends well. After that, another right side guy that defends well. After that, a left side guy that defends well.

Vince Dunn would have made sense without Rathbone in the mix. He’s not a guy you use scarce resources chasing anymore.

 

[KaprizovEntitlelist]

What do people think of the possibility of this trade:

To St. Louis:
Brandon Sutter (50% retained)
Jake Virtanen
Nils Hoglander
2nd round pick

To Vancouver:
Vince Dunn

I hate the idea of moving more draft picks, but this deal clears half of Sutter's cap hit. It adds a budding young defensemen who is likely to receive a similar amount to what Virtanen was likely to get anyway so no real increase to the cap there. Going with Hughes, Dunn and Edler on the left side solidifies that side of our defense, and Dunn moves up next year when Edler moves out. With Rathbone now under contract, the left side of our defense would become a strength going forward, leaving the right side defense as our biggest hole.


To address our right side defense, I'm kicking tires on what Florida would want for Aaron Ekblad. I recall some speculation last year that they may consider moving him because of his cap hit, though that's likely changed by now. If you can get him at a bit of a discount due to his $7.5M cap hit, I'm jumping in on that. But if they're asking for a Brock Boeser (which might actually be a fair trade), I'm holding off simply because it would take away too much from our forward group where we honestly do lack quality young depth. I would also kick tires on Matt Dumba, depending on the cost. IIRC Minnesota has 2 defensemen on NMC's (Suter and Spurgeon). They'll have to decide on protecting Dumba or Brodin, and perhaps they'll take the almost $2M in cap savings by protecting Brodin and getting something for Dumba?

Minnesota isn't just going to give Dumba or Brodin for nothing

 

[y2kcanucks]

He makes him a poor target, if you think Jack Rathbone is legit.

If the Canucks target a dman, it should be a right side guy that defends well. After that, another right side guy that defends well. After that, a left side guy that defends well.

Vince Dunn would have made sense without Rathbone in the mix. He’s not a guy you use scarce resources chasing anymore.

Jack Rathbone hasn't played a shift in the NHL. No one has any idea if he will transition to the NHL and be a top 4 defensemen or not. To suggest that a young defensemen who has played well in his short career is redundant because we have a prospect who MIGHT be able to make the jump is ludicrous.

I agree that a right shot defensemen is probably a bigger need, but saying Vince Dunn would be redundant is wrong.

Minnesota isn't just going to give Dumba or Brodin for nothing

Never said they would, but I'm curious what that price would be since I can't see them getting full price...well scratch that. Benning doesn't know when the opposite team is in a bad bargaining position so I'm sure he'd pay full price no problem.

 

[Cogburn]

Schneider for Eriksson. Flat cap trade.
-We buy out Schneider, he costs us 2 million for 4 years.

Demko and Sutter for a second from Detroit
-I would argue for 32 overall, they won't like that, so we take another 2nd they have instead.

Baertschi+4th (?) to Buffalo
-They need wingers, we need cap space, I don't know what the balance between Baertschi and future considerations though. It can't be much.

We now have $29,716,794 in cap space for Markstrom, Toffoli, Tanev, Gaudette, Virtanen, Stecher, Leivo, MacEwen, Motte, a back up (or DP) and all remaining bonuses from last year and this coming year. If we were a real franchise, we'd set some cap space to not be filled for more then this year to sign next years free agents. That might not happen though.

 

[MS]

Teams taking on bad contracts to get to the cap floor isn't and has never been a thing.

It is absolutely mindnumbing that this is still being brought up as a thing as we go into year 16 of a capped league.

 

[MS]

Having bad contracts is bad. Sure.

Would you say that being in a position where you're forced do give away good assets to dump bad contracts while a rebuilding non-playoff team with your best players still on ELCS because you've committed $30 million to Loui Eriksson, Tyler Myers, Brandon Sutter, Michael Ferland, Jay Beagle, Antoine Roussel and Jordie Benn is :

a) good management?

b) bad management?

c) absolutely awful management?

 

[Knight53]

Gaudette's development will be big going foward. If he can go from middle six player to legit 2C that allows us to move Horvat.

Horvat for Pesce could be a great trade for both teams.

Hughes/Rathbone/Pesce would be an excellent defensive core.

 

[Hoghandler]

I agree that a right shot defensemen is probably a bigger need, but saying Vince Dunn would be redundant is wrong.

If you think Jack Rathbone is going to be playing regularly on your defense in the next 12-18 months, Vince Dunn is redundant. Moving your precious few tradable assets, while taking on cap space, just to fill a hole you don’t have isn’t wise management.

The Blues need cap space; they would be looking for picks and prospects if they move Dunn. A guy like Rathbone. Can you build a deal around Rathbone or Podkolzin that looks worthwhile on the Canucks end? What does that offer look like?

 

[supercanuck]

Schneider for Eriksson. Flat cap trade.
-We buy out Schneider, he costs us 2 million for 4 years.

This is an interesting proposal. With his injury history, he may be an LTIR candidate too.