2020 Redraft - Top 5

[roon]

Stutzle/Faber - could see either going 1st overall.

fight amongst yourselves over the rest.

 

[HockeyWooot]

It’s turning out to be a solid draft class. Like we saw with Lafrenierre’s breakout this post season I expect there’s some guys who will have more to show.

Stutzle
Lafreniere
Sanderson
Byfield
Faber
Raymond
Jarvis
Lundell
Perfetti
Peterka
Rossi
Guhle
Mercer
Evangelista
Neighbours

 

[Regal]

No disrespect to Byfield, who I'd kill to have, but Raymond had one of the more notable progression years I can recall period.

Like, he started the season looking better simply because he had gained a ton of weight and gotten stronger, got progressively better as the season went on, and then in March when Larkin got injured and the rest of the team decided they wanted to go golfing early, he went into "Fine I'll do it myself" mode and went off.

He essentially finished last year as a good Top 6 winger, started this season as a high end top 6 winger who was stronger on the puck, and finished this year showing that he was top line winger who could drive a line and take over the game when he wanted to.

I suppose I was thinking more in the sense that it’s easier to project players once they’ve established themselves as contributors, which Byfield had to do this year, but that’s a fair point that Raymond took the leap into line driver territory this year which shouldn’t be dismissed either or assumed that Byfield will also make that leap until he does.

 

[blankall]

Laf had a great year and an incredible playoffs. Anyone not ranking him in the top 5 (or at the very least in that mix) is just being bitter and refusing to admit they wrote him off too early.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

You don't watch much do you? But to answer your question, one is a rookie and the other already has 3 NHL seasons. Anyways, here's what the small forward did this past season:

I mean and Faber looked like a #1 D in his first season my point is proven

 

[chaz4hockey]

I dont really have an issue with Stutzle or Sanderson above him, even if Raymond was better than Stutzle this year. The issue I have is guys saying Jarvis can jump 10 spots ahead of him as a winger because he had a good first round of the playoffs on a great team while Raymond still outscored him this season.

Saying Byfield should hold his spot ahead of him because he finally had a season he didnt look like a bust because he got moved to the wing. A guy who Raymond had more goals than this season than Byfield does in his career. If you want to call Byfield a point per game center down the road at this point, you can easily say Raymond projects as a 100 point, 40 goal winger...

Lafreniere having a decent season and good playoff run playing with Panarin (once again, as a winger), has ~30 less points and the same amount of goals as Raymond in 60 more career games. But he holds his spot as a winger because of a 14 game sample with a top 5 or 6 player in the game on his line. Raymonds offensive game with Panarin this season and he pretty easily outdoes what Lafreniere does, and I say that as a guy that like Lafreniere.

Honestly using the playoffs as justification for anything is pretty stupid right now. Jarvis has points in 5 games total this playoffs, 2 points in his 6 games in the second round. Youre talking guys with 230+ game sample sizes and saying Jarvis' game translates to the playoffs because of a good 5 games against the Islanders in the first round basically.

Raymond pretty easily has the best case for third overall in this draft class right now (maybe 2nd depending on opinion of Sanderson), but you want to say people having him 8th is normal, its not

folks are primarily focusing on goal scoring but defense and physicality matter too.

Jarvis is already a superb 2-way player (RBA clone perhaps when all is said and done….Canes may move him to Center too) & Laf adds a layer of physical play that is important against good teams/playoffs.

Laf took a big step forward his year (in akk areas annd is skating is so much better) and I’m now projecting him as a 40+ goal scorer along with playing rugged/physical hockey.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Stutzle
Raymond
Sanderson
Byfield
Laf

The last two could be fairly interchangeable with Faber/Jarvis as well.

Turning into a pretty decent draft

 

[villacco]

Everyone is sleeping on Alexander Nikishin!

So many good players in this draft. There will be a lot of changes over the time. Even in 5 years.
Like the 2003 draft, where a lot of guys where ahead of Joe Pavelski even 10 years after the draft.

 

[dirtydanglez]

stutzle is the clear cut #1. after that there is a few players that are worthy of #2.

 

[jonlin]

Stutzle
Raymond
Sanderson
Byfield
Laf

The last two could be fairly interchangeable with Faber/Jarvis as well.

Turning into a pretty decent draft

Theese playoffs have shown, that Lundell has a new gear. He is playing 3rd line minutes on Panthers and looks like a mini-Barkov out there:

19gp 3g 11a 14p +8 FO% 53.7 CF% 56.3 OiGf/OiGa 22/8 16.34min/gp

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Everyone is sleeping on Alexander Nikishin!

So many good players in this draft. There will be a lot of changes over the time. Even in 5 years.
Like the 2003 draft, where a lot of guys where ahead of Joe Pavelski even 10 years after the draft.

I mean, there are guys that have essentially established themselves as stars in the league. Nobody's putting Nikishin in the Top 5 until he actually plays a game in the NHL.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Theese playoffs have shown, that Lundell has a new gear. He is playing 3rd line minutes on Panthers and looks like a mini-Barkov out there:

19gp 3g 11a 14p +8 FO% 53.7 CF% 56.3 OiGf/OiGa 22/8 16.34min/gp

Sure, but Jarvis and Lafreniere also had great post seasons while having better regular seasons as well

 

[jonlin]

Sure, but Jarvis and Lafreniere also had great post seasons while having better regular seasons as well

Centers usually take longer to develope. Atleast 200ft ones. I`m guessing Lundell will be a Selke-candidate a few years away while having atleast 60-70p seasons. That is a valuable commodity. Defensive play is actually pretty harder to develope than offensive for C:s.

 

[Voodoo Child]

1. Stutzle
2. Raymond
3. Byfield
4. Sanderson
5. Faber

Still early enough and lots of guys close like Mercer, Jarvis, Lundell, Laf and lots of dark horses like Quinn, Rossi, Drysdale and Peterka.

No real superstars but very deep, 2003esque.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Tim Stutzle
Jake Sanderson
Quintin Byfield
Lucas Raymond
Dawson Mercer

I dont see anything wrong with this other than I'd replace Mercer with Faber

 

[scallionjj11]

Idk how people seriously have Jake Sanderson #1. He isn't putting up great numbers offensively and he's not some stalwart defensively.

You clearly haven't watched him play.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Centers usually take longer to develope. Atleast 200ft ones. I`m guessing Lundell will be a Selke-candidate a few years away while having atleast 60-70p seasons. That is a valuable commodity. Defensive play is actually pretty harder to develope than offensive for C:s.

Where is there any proof whatsoever that Cs take longer to develop?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Where is there any proof whatsoever that Cs take longer to develop?

They definitely take longer than wingers, they usually suck at face offs for a few years, and are required to play 200’ of ice vs 140 ish.

But usually the young centre starts on the wing, and eventually finds his way back to centre after a few years.

Usually matched up against an experienced centre, which can be tough.

With the wingers having the easiest position.

 

[nbwingsfan]

They definitely take longer than wingers, they usually suck at face offs for a few years, and are required to play 200’ of ice vs 140 ish.

But usually the young centre starts on the wing, and eventually finds his way back to centre after a few years.

Usually matched up against an experienced centre, which can be tough.

With the wingers having the easiest position.

None of that has anything to do with developing offensive skill.

Again, is there any shred of proof to this at all? Because I can think of all kinds of examples where this isn’t true

 

[Golden_Jet]

None of that has anything to do with developing offensive skill.

That’s because you asked something different,

“Where is there any proof whatsoever that Cs take longer to develop?”

Big whoop you can name some examples.
In general, Centre’s take longer to develop, many have to start on the wing, because coaches can’t trust them, enough, or there running 27% at face offs.

 

[swiftwin]

Sanderson is criminally underrated in this thread. His underlying defensive stats this year have been amazing. If he keeps it up he could be an offensively better/worst defensively Slavin. Slavin was immediately elite defensively when he entered the NHL.

Sanderson this year had a 5.6 defensive rating according to evolving-hockey. Slavin in his first season at 21 had a 7.6.

Defensive rating: players ca/60 - weighted average of all teammates ca/60

People should catch a clue when so many Sens fans have Sanderson ahead of Stutzle.

 

[swiftwin]

stutzle is the clear cut #1. after that there is a few players that are worthy of #2.

Sanderson is #1 IMO

 

[nbwingsfan]

That’s because you asked something different,

“Where is there any proof whatsoever that Cs take longer to develop?”

Big whoop you can name some examples.
In general, Centre’s take longer to develop, many have to start on the wing, because coaches can’t trust them, enough, or there running 27% at face offs.

The post I was responding to was a guy specifically talking about Lundell being much further behind offensively than the others listed.

 

[CowbellConray]

The post I was responding to was a guy specifically talking about Lundell being much further behind offensively than the others listed.

Take Dylan Cozens as an example.

2022/23 season, he was a winger. Had his best offensive year, 68 in 81. 38 goals.

2023/24 season he was asked to take on true center duties. Lower in the defensive zone, taking draws, less play deep in the offensive zone. He struggled. His offense dropped considerably.

Developing offense, and developing how to use your offense are two different things. Centers are broken in as wingers frequently to allow their offensive game to thrive without the additional responsibilities. They have offensive skill, they just arent able to use it at the center position.

Wingers aren’t broken in at center. Their game is simpler. The requirements of the role are lesser than that of a center. Hence why all teams need that #1 center, while no one says they need that #1 winger.


Offensive utilization at the center position is a more nuanced situation than that of wingers

 

[Pavels Dog]

Hence why all teams need that #1 center, while no one says they need that #1 winger.

Yeah but the odds of Lundell turning into a bonafide #1 center are very bad, regardless of whether centers take longer to develop or not.