HF Habs: 2020 Montreal Canadiens Off-Season Thread part 3

[calder candidate]

If you are of the opinion that they all have complex tax strategies, why are you basing your numbers solely on gross tax rate? To I are basically admitting your assumption is flawed.

Are you also assuming that each jurisdiction offers identical strategies?

You have just acknowledged that the actual tax paid can’t be calculated by the gross tax rate due to individual tax planning. It seems senseless to, at the same time, advocate for a salary cap based on that same gross tax rate.

Why such a simple calculation for an admittedly complex issue?

How would you factor residency into calculating the cap? Some players in Canada are able to maintain USA residency.

Is your point that player in Florida, Nevada, Texas don’t have any fiscal advantages? Do you what me to do your taxes Because I don’t get it... Yes, it a simplified calculation (even if the online calculator take every jurisdiction into account) there are infinite amount of thing that could be done in different jurisdiction to pay less taxes... Player have to pay taxes in every jurisdiction the play in. why do you have MTL player who reside in Florida, it is part of there taxe stratégie but they still have to file for earning relative tothe 42 home game in Qc, vs. the Florida player playing in Florida will reside in Florida... When I put FW to adjust the cap based on taxes, you would adjusted it on real life impact of fiscal burden not just the gross tax rate. I used the grosse tax rate because it is a lot easier, there is still a significant gap in both rate and what strategies that can be applied between different jurisdiction. I’m not going to try to account for everyone of them here... NHL get a accounting firm that specialize in taxe strategy for athlete to calculate the taxes burden of each team and adjust the cap accordingly, yes it is more complicated than just the gross tax rate but it isn’t subjective everyone playing by the same rules in every jurisdiction and it is pretty easy for them to be able to figure out the exact number for each team that would balance thing out so that the different in take home pay between a player Ottawa and Dallas is insignificant which it isn’t right now.

 

[Treb]

Yeah we should sign Hoffman, so he and his girlfriend can come piss off all of the guys and their wives. Great for morale.

He was so bad in Florida.

 

[Tighthead]

Is your point that player in Florida, Nevada, Texas don’t have any fiscal advantages? Do you what me to do your taxes Because I don’t get it... Yes, it a simplified calculation (even if the online calculator take every jurisdiction into account) there are infinite amount of thing that could be done in different jurisdiction to pay less taxes... Player have to pay taxes in every jurisdiction the play in. why do you have MTL player who reside in Florida, it is part of there taxe stratégie but they still have to file for earning relative tothe 42 home game in Qc, vs. the Florida player playing in Florida will reside in Florida... When I put FW to adjust the cap based on taxes, you would adjusted it on real life impact of fiscal burden not just the gross tax rate. I used the grosse tax rate because it is a lot easier, there is still a significant gap in both rate and what strategies that can be applied between different jurisdiction. I’m not going to try to account for everyone of them here... NHL get a accounting firm that specialize in taxe strategy for athlete to calculate the taxes burden of each team and adjust the cap accordingly, yes it is more complicated than just the gross tax rate but it isn’t subjective everyone playing by the same rules in every jurisdiction and it is pretty easy for them to be able to figure out the exact number for each team that would balance thing out so that the different in take home pay between a player Ottawa and Dallas is insignificant which it isn’t right now.

Are you talking about how much cheaper Ottawa is than Dallas? Is that also part of your calculation? If so why not?

For the third time, how would you deal with the fact that the legal residences of the players may not be uniform within a team, therefore the tax situation is different player to player?

So you used the first tax rate because it is easier, but you acknowledge it’s not accurate?

I don’t want you to do my taxes because you aren’t capable. Is that meant to somehow discredit me? How does that serve our discussion?

Do you want me to do your paragraphs?

You think this would be easy? That is telling.

 

[donghabs98]

He was really a pipe dream. For what the Jets would want, I cant see the Habs doing it.

 

[Kriss E]

He was really a pipe dream. For what the Jets would want, I cant see the Habs doing it.

Anybody thought we actually would be?..lol

 

[DAChampion]

For what the Jets would want, I cant see the Habs doing it.

We say that whenever stars are about to get traded.

But then Taylor Hall, Phil Kessel, Tyler Seguin, Brayden Schenn, etc etc are always moved for prices that the Habs could have matched.

 

[sheed36]

He was really a pipe dream. For what the Jets would want, I cant see the Habs doing it.

Yup the Jets probably wanted 1 and maybe even 2 of Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Caufield and Romanov included with likely a 1st round pick plus other good assets off the current roster and MB said I'm out. Laine would've been a great add but not at any cost.

 

[DAChampion]

Yup the Jets probably wanted 1 and maybe even 2 of Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, Caufield and Romanov included with likely a 1st round pick plus other good assets off the current roster and MB said I'm out. Laine would've been a great add but not at any cost.

Watch for the Jets to not get trade value remotely equivalent to Suzuki+Caulfield+Romanov+1st.

 

[sheed36]

Watch for the Jets to not get trade value remotely equivalent to Suzuki+Caulfield+Romanov+1st.

Did you even read my post for what I actually said?

 

[Kriss E]

Are you talking about how much cheaper Ottawa is than Dallas? Is that also part of your calculation? If so why not?

For the third time, how would you deal with the fact that the legal residences of the players may not be uniform within a team, therefore the tax situation is different player to player?

So you used the first tax rate because it is easier, but you acknowledge it’s not accurate?

I don’t want you to do my taxes because you aren’t capable. Is that meant to somehow discredit me? How does that serve our discussion?

Do you want me to do your paragraphs?

You think this would be easy? That is telling.

Not to mention, the players get paid in US dollars. If someone makes 6M USD, as of today's rate, that's 8M CAD. That's just the rate alone, then you add in cost of living as well as you brought up.

Another thing that is likely a consideration especially for non-US citizens is how crazy our neighbour to the south is going. It's nuts.

 

[DAChampion]

Did you even read my post for what I actually said?

It was a run-on sentence but either you're completely exxagerrating what the asking price for Laine will be.

Rereading you're suggesting Suzuki+Romanov+1st+other good assets. Lol no.

 

[Kriss E]

Did you even read my post for what I actually said?

I think he did, his point stands despite a small mistake.
You said the ask was likely 2 of Suzuki/KK/Caufield/Romanov + 1st + good asset of current roster.
So let's say Suzuki+KK+1st+Danault.
No freaking way in hell are they ever going to get this as a return or would even ask for this much.

 

[Tighthead]

Not to mention, the players get paid in US dollars. If someone makes 6M USD, as of today's rate, that's 8M CAD. That's just the rate alone, then you add in cost of living as well as you brought up.

Another thing that is likely a consideration especially for non-US citizens is how crazy our neighbour to the south is going. It's nuts.

Lots of players in Ottawa live in nice houses that they bought for about $600k. Good public schools nearby, it’s an untroubled life. The franchise may be a disaster but players generally like the set up.

 

[sheed36]

It was a run-on sentence but either you're completely exxagerrating what the asking price for Laine will be.

Rereading you're suggesting Suzuki+Romanov+1st+other good assets. Lol no.

I'm not suggesting anything other than if the Jets are gonna trade their young premier scoring winger they're likely asking for a huge price to move him and rightfully so on their part.

 

[le_sean]

He was so bad in Florida.

Well they aren’t bringing him back so who knows.

I just know I don’t want that douchebag on my team. He’s also non-existent defensively and doesn’t fit in this lineup.

 

[DAChampion]

I'm not suggesting anything other than if the Jets are gonna trade their young premier scoring winger they're likely asking for a huge price to move him and rightfully so on their part.

Laine will be a salary dump because Winnipeg can't keep all of their young players and fill in their other needs. Laine is about to ask for 9 million/year as the cap will be frozen for 4+ years.

Danault, Chiarot, 1st, Fleury is likely competitive with the best offer they're going to get.

 

[sheed36]

Laine will be a salary dump because Winnipeg can't keep all of their young players and fill in their other needs. Laine is about to ask for 9 million/year as the cap will be frozen for 4+ years.

Danault, Chiarot, 1st, Fleury is likely competitive with the best offer they're going to get.

Maybe but they'll likely also want at least a top prospect back in any deal for him. If MB isn't getting in on Laine IMO it's either they think he'll want way too much money on his next contract or the cost is too high to acquire him and maybe even both.

 

[Kriss E]

Lots of players in Ottawa live in nice houses that they bought for about $600k. Good public schools nearby, it’s an untroubled life. The franchise may be a disaster but players generally like the set up.

Ottawa is boring AF. But I don't have a family or enjoy the quiet life. So I guess it depends on your lifestyle. I assume younger bachelors don't have Ottawa as a very prime destination in terms of living conditions.

 

[Kriss E]

Laine will be a salary dump because Winnipeg can't keep all of their young players and fill in their other needs. Laine is about to ask for 9 million/year as the cap will be frozen for 4+ years.

Danault, Chiarot, 1st, Fleury is likely competitive with the best offer they're going to get.

I'd be surprised if they don't get a grade-A prospect for Laine.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

It would take Domi + Romanov + to get Laine

 

[le_sean]

Ottawa is boring AF. But I don't have a family or enjoy the quiet life. So I guess it depends on your lifestyle. I assume younger bachelors don't have Ottawa as a very prime destination in terms of living conditions.

It definitely does suck unless you have a family. It gets real redundant real quick.

 

[DAChampion]

Maybe but they'll likely also want at least a top prospect back in any deal for him. If MB isn't getting in on Laine IMO it's either they think he'll want way too much money on his next contract or the cost is too high to acquire him and maybe even both.

ROR, Hall, Subban, Kessel, got traded without grade A prospects going the other way.

But sure, include Caulfield in the package for Laine.

 

[Miller Time]

Anybody thought we actually would be?..lol

MB hasn't killed all hope just yet....

But, yeah, no rational or reasoned follower of the team could expect MB to be aggressive in adding the kind of elite talent we obviously need. He's shown quite emphatically that he's too "smart" for that.

 

[Treb]

Well they aren’t bringing him back so who knows.

I just know I don’t want that douchebag on my team. He’s also non-existent defensively and doesn’t fit in this lineup.

He would fit pretty well on 2RW.

Tatar - Suzuki - Gallagher
Drouin - KK - XXX
Lehkonen - Danault - Armia
Byron - Evans - XXX
Weal

We need goals and someone who can play top 6 RW. Hoffman, Dadonov, Toffoli and Rakell can all provide that. If we get any of them (or any other 2RW) with a decent deal, I'm happy.

 

[calder candidate]

Are you talking about how much cheaper Ottawa is than Dallas? Is that also part of your calculation? If so why not?

For the third time, how would you deal with the fact that the legal residences of the players may not be uniform within a team, therefore the tax situation is different player to player?

So you used the first tax rate because it is easier, but you acknowledge it’s not accurate?

I don’t want you to do my taxes because you aren’t capable. Is that meant to somehow discredit me? How does that serve our discussion?

Do you want me to do your paragraphs?

You think this would be easy? That is telling.

I didn’t mean to insult you, but I glad you took the high road... kidding aside your just framing a argument that I ain’t making... My point is that there is a gap between teams and that it is easy to quantify it and the NHL could than adjust for it. Yes it is more complex than the the base taxe rate I already acknowledged it ( not sure you want to reaffirm it) but I never ague that it wasn’t. The Taxes law are known and the law are the same for everyone, I wasn’t doing to start calculating the exact taxe rate for each team or player... it is clear that there is a gap, and the base taxe rate is a pretty good and best approximation of that gap but never intented to ague that it was the exact number that should be used. The difference between two player (bachelor or wife +3 kids) is a lot more insignificant and fluid than the gap that could exist between playing for different team. As for the cost of living, once you make over 750k$ not sure it really significant, player in Ottawa aren’t living in the avg. house and even if I agree that the house in Dallas is significantly more expensive it is still asset the player owns, he isn’t losing money because he live in Dallas, grocery money is again insignificant vs. the gap cause by income taxes.
The gap exists there are lot of factor but most of the biggest are fix you can’t account for everything and every single exception but you can easily take a big step in the right direction to bridge the gap.