OT: 2020 Football Thread: Offseason Edition

[Maximus]

Was having a few cocktails with a couple of buddies of mine at a happy hour where I live here near Philly last night and we were talking about how shitty both the Jets and Eagles are thus far. And yes drinking on a Tuesday now has become a staple of my week during covid and with both the Mets and Jets driving me nuts....lol

Anyways these bud of mine are bigtime Eagle fans and they do fantasy as well so they know their shit. So I asked them if your me and the Jets end up so fortunate to have the #1 overall pick at end of season, do we take Trevor Lawrence or do we deal him away to some other team for a "Hershel Walker" like return?

They both looked at me and said it was a no brainer. The Jets have so many holes still too fill that you trade the pick away, get yourself 2 first rounders a couple of second and third rounders. You add them to the draft capital that you already got and you don't look back as you than can get the pieces to build around Darnold and you patch up any other holes you have on defense.

Both of them swear by Douglass as well as they actually were hoping he'd stay with Philly and take over for Howie Roseman cause it was Douglass in their opinions and his player eval skills that was the real reason Philly had the right players to win that SB.

I think my friends are right now that I think about it. If we get the #1 overall, we do need to deal it away for the haul of the century and I trust Douglass would pick the right players.

Think about how bad the Cowboys were in the late 80's till the Walker deal. After that deal, they had that one growing pain bad year when Aikmen was a rookie and than they took off and won a few Super Bowls and remained relevant and competitive for a decade or so after that.

We would have the same opportunity to do that here. We have the QB...I'm still convinced of it. We have some other pieces as well in Becton and Quinnen and Maye. We get Sam some nice and shiny toys to play with, we fortify the O-Line some more. We finally get an edge rusher and some cover corners and voila....we have ourselves not just a competitive football team but a team that could do some damage once we got to the playoffs.

And I could give two shits if Trevor Lawrence became a HOF QB. So long as the Jets got the haul we needed to become relevant, competitive and a winning football team again, that's all that I care about and concerns me.

For those who would take Lawrence and not the haul I'm talking about. So you pick Lawrence do the 5 year reset and you still have tons of needs and you don't have the draft capital to fill them as you would by keeping Sam and trading the pick.

One caveat to this dream scenario of mine as the only thing we'd be missing would be the "Jimmy Johnson" part and that's what Douglass has to figure out. Who can he find to be the guy to lead us to the next level? Is he out there? Do we even know who that looks like?

Is Sean Payton available as he'd be a great guy for Sam to learn from? I'd give Eric Bienemy a very very hard look as well as he checks alot of boxes for me. We need to find that guy and frankly I don't know who that is.

Bottom line: We get fortunate to get the #1 overall...we trade it and get the biggest haul in NFL history...simple as that!

 

[Maximus]

Damn....Gale Sayers died today....shit!. Loved that guy.

Loved watching him play. Other than Barry Sanders, Sayers might be the most exciting player who ever lived.

Shit, I loved the movie "Brian's Song" which was the first movie I ever cried at.

Gale Sayers was one of the greats...he'll be missed!!

 

[TheTimTamSlammerMan]

I can think of one thing Judge did that made absolutely no sense. 4th down midfield trying to draw the Bears offside. Center doesn’t even have hand on the ball. And instead of taking a meaningless 5 yard delay of game, we waste a timeout and we kick it for a touchback anyway. Confused the heck out of me.

 

[NYSPORTS]

And I could give two shits if Trevor Lawrence became a HOF QB. So long as the Jets got the haul we needed to become relevant, competitive and a winning football team again, that's all that I care about and concerns me.

For those who would take Lawrence and not the haul I'm talking about. So you pick Lawrence do the 5 year reset and you still have tons of needs and you don't have the draft capital to fill them as you would by keeping Sam and trading the pick.
!

i would take the kid who appears to be the next John Elway

Fans often bring up the Hershal Walker deal from 30 years ago as deal as if that trade alone built the dynasty. A few things:

like Pete Carroll, who the so called experts gave F grades for his drafts, Pete Caroll knew all the college players b/c he was part of the Nationwide recruiting. Carroll built a power house in Seattle.

Looking back to the Walker deal, it was Jimmy Johnson who came out of college and knew all the college recruits nationwide. Look at where he obtained so many roster players. A lot were original Dallas picks, some trades and a lot of navigation. Fact is, Johnson knew so many players he hit on picks most teams miss on.

If you’re the Jets, a Walker deal doesn’t ensure you doing anything more than accumulating picks. Remember the Rickey Williams trade? How did that turn out?

Be careful, a lot of team won Super Bowls without a Walker trade and despite only two Super Bowls wins, John Elway played in five.

 

[sbjnyc]

hey, if you love him, great. In Washington, he wasn’t retained b/c his contributions are ordinary. If 847 yards is the high bar, that’s ordinary on many franchises. If you’re happy with him, awesome.

In what world are the redskinsfootball team the benchmark for competent player evaluation?

 

[ponzu4u]

Saquan isn't getting jack-f***ing-shit right now. He can hold out all he wants. Dude just tore his ACL. He lost all negotiating power.

Unfortunately that's just not really how it works. The Giants are in a shit position. The best they can realistically hope is to get him to sign a one year "prove it" deal. Then hopefully he proves it but at that point, the same year they will have to extend Jones, they'll have to pay Saquon his delayed "big contract." If he doesn't prove it and the injury has ruined his career then that's an utter waste of the #2 overall pick. And if the Giants play hardball and another (more competent) organization says, "hey, we believe in you" we'll give you the chance to prove it and offer him more, well, that's another outcome where the highest pick the Giants have made in over a decade turns out to be a complete bust for the organization.

 

[NYSPORTS]

In what world are the redskinsfootball team the benchmark for competent player evaluation?

in what world are the Jets? (Edit, thought this was in response to a Walker trade)

 

[sbjnyc]

in what world are the Jets? (Edit, thought this was in response to a Walker trade)

You can't look at the football team or the jets and assume guys they dump suck. Both teams are a wreck and keep the flotsam.

 

[Maximus]

i would take the kid who appears to be the next John Elway

Fans often bring up the Hershal Walker deal from 30 years ago as deal as if that trade alone built the dynasty. A few things:

like Pete Carroll, who the so called experts gave F grades for his drafts, Pete Caroll knew all the college players b/c he was part of the Nationwide recruiting. Carroll built a power house in Seattle.

Looking back to the Walker deal, it was Jimmy Johnson who came out of college and knew all the college recruits nationwide. Look at where he obtained so many roster players. A lot were original Dallas picks, some trades and a lot of navigation. Fact is, Johnson knew so many players he hit on picks most teams miss on.

If you’re the Jets, a Walker deal doesn’t ensure you doing anything more than accumulating picks. Remember the Rickey Williams trade? How did that turn out?

Be careful, a lot of team won Super Bowls without a Walker trade and despite only two Super Bowls wins, John Elway played in five.

If you read what I wrote, I did say we needed the "Jimmy Johnson" hire in order for this "Hershel Walker" scenario I painted to work. That said, I disagree with you obviously. The Jets need so much and have so many holes to fill, the quickest way to relevance again is too get the motherload for the #1 pick...simple as that.

Darnold would not fetch all too much IMO if he was dangled seeing he needs to get paid and he really hasn't shown alot since he has had shit too work with. Lawrence would be just as crap ass unless he had weapons and a solid O-line as well.

So that said, I'd take my chances that Douglass who has helped build SB winners in both Baltimore and Philly would make solid choices and fix whatever needs we had. And he'd have the draft capital and oodles of money and cap space too do it.

Listen, I'm a Jet fan for close to 50 years and I know all about shit blowing up into our faces. This tho is a gamble I'd be willing too take as we are so far away from even being even relevant. And it's cause I trust Douglass knows what the hell he's doing. Who knows it could be a win/win for both Lawrence and the Jets if we traded the #1 overall for as I said the motherload!.

FYI: This isn't a Rangers and Lafrenier situation where the Rangers are very close to being a finished product and so no way on gods green earth do we trade the pick despite the windfall we'd likely get. The Jets needs are so great that it really would take getting the #1 overall pick and trading it, to even get close to where the Rangers are in their progression.

Meantime I'm starting to get nervous we might give the Colts a game of it Sunday as the Colts are banged up and aren't looking so hot and so we have an outside shot at "damaging" our run for the 1st overall...we'll see.

 

[NYSPORTS]

If you read what I wrote, I did say we needed the "Jimmy Johnson" hire in order for this "Hershel Walker" scenario I painted to work. That said, I disagree with you obviously. The Jets need so much and have so many holes to fill, the quickest way to relevance again is too get the motherload for the #1 pick...simple as that.

Darnold would not fetch all too much IMO if he was dangled seeing he needs to get paid and he really hasn't shown alot since he has had shit too work with. Lawrence would be just as crap ass unless he had weapons and a solid O-line as well.

So that said, I'd take my chances that Douglass who has helped build SB winners in both Baltimore and Philly would make solid choices and fix whatever needs we had. And he'd have the draft capital and oodles of money and cap space too do it.

Listen, I'm a Jet fan for close to 50 years and I know all about shit blowing up into our faces. This tho is a gamble I'd be willing too take as we are so far away from even being even relevant. And it's cause I trust Douglass knows what the hell he's doing. Who knows it could be a win/win for both Lawrence and the Jets if we traded the #1 overall for as I said the motherload!.

FYI: This isn't a Rangers and Lafrenier situation where the Rangers are very close to being a finished product and so no way on gods green earth do we trade the pick despite the windfall we'd likely get. The Jets needs are so great that it really would take getting the #1 overall pick and trading it, to even get close to where the Rangers are in their progression.

Meantime I'm starting to get nervous we might give the Colts a game of it Sunday as the Colts are banged up and aren't looking so hot and so we have an outside shot at "damaging" our run for the 1st overall...we'll see.

as a Giants fan, i’m taking the next Elway. I don’t trust this front office with multiple picks considering how poorly they have drafted for too long.

 

[Maximus]

as a Giants fan, i’m taking the next Elway. I don’t trust this front office with multiple picks considering how poorly they have drafted for too long.

I'm assuming you mean how poorly the Giants have drafted for too long. I mean it could be you meant the Jets but considering Douglass has had just one draft, it's way too soon to evaluate his drafts and it does look like he made the right call with Becton.

 

[sbjnyc]

I'm assuming you mean how poorly the Giants have drafted for too long. I mean it could be you meant the Jets but considering Douglass has had just one draft, it's way too soon to evaluate his drafts and it does look like he made the right call with Becton.

I'm not judging him on Becton but on Mims.

 

[17futurecap]

You run up and take Lawrence, then take corners and a tackle for the right side with your other early picks.

QB
CB
T

How you build in the NFL.

 

[Maximus]

You run up and take Lawrence, then take corners and a tackle for the right side with your other early picks.

QB
CB
T

How you build in the NFL.

Or you keep Darnold, get rid of Gase, get two 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders and a 3rd which means you now have 4 1st rounders this upcoming draft and you go in just the first round:

CB
T
WR
Edge Rusher

In subsequent rounds you add more WR's, another cover corner another O-Lineman...etc etc etc.

Jet could be competitive as soon as next year if they do something like this.

 

[Barnaby]

Jets already have two firsts in the next two drafts. A big time QB on a rookie deal is the most valuable thing going. As much as I like Darnold, I’m taking Lawrence and not looking back. He’s a ground ball franchise QB. I’m not dealing the next Marino unless someone overpays sk much that I can’t turn it down.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I really feel for Darnold. He’s in an impossible position to succeed.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Or you keep Darnold, get rid of Gase, get two 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders and a 3rd which means you now have 4 1st rounders this upcoming draft and you go in just the first round:

CB
T
WR
Edge Rusher

In subsequent rounds you add more WR's, another cover corner another O-Lineman...etc etc etc.

Jet could be competitive as soon as next year if they do something like this.

has your proposed trade ever happened in the draft? The Walker deal was for a proven veteran and 30 ago. Has your proposal ever happened on draft day?

 

[Maximus]

has your proposed trade ever happened in the draft? The Walker deal was for a proven veteran and 30 ago. Has your proposal ever happened on draft day?

FYI: I use the Walker trade not necessarily because it's the same scenerio as the Jets would be in if they hypothetically got the #1 overall. I used it merely to illustrate the kind of haul a team could get for one player it desperately wants or perceives to need.

As far as your questions, yeah it's happened quite a few times in NFL history where they #1 pick has been traded and not going to name them all as you can see for yourself what I found.

Anyways, had to do a little research but the best examples I could find were ironically the Jets in 1997 who for 2nd year in a row had #1 overall(I had forgotten this) and trading down with Rams who had the 6th overall. Now this was Parcells in charge and it ended up working out for both teams as Rams took Orlando Pace who is now in the HOF. And the Jets went from 1-15 to the AFC Championship game 2 years later.

So trade was Rams trade the 6th pick, third round pick, fourth round pick, and seventh round pick to New York for the first overall pick

Another really good example I could find is the RG3 trade as it's the kind of deal the Jets could get for Lawrence. Now yes RG3 was the consensus #2 QB that draft behind Andew Luck but it's a real good example of what a team "could" give up if they were so desperate for a franchise QB as RG3 was considered back than.

So to refresh the memory, the Rams gave up the #2 overall pick and in return received from the Skins:

2012 6th overall and a 2012 2nd rounder
2013 1st rounder
2014 1st rounder

And if you recall the Rams ended up trading down a few times with all this additional draft capital and receieved an additional 4 draft picks. Now I'm not saying the Rams did all that great with the haul they got for the trade but this is pretty good example of what the Jets could get as far as hauls are concerned and maybe even better if Douglass plays his cards right.

 

[sbjnyc]

Yeah it's happened quite a few times. Had to do a little research but the best examples I could find were ironically the Jets in 1997 who for 2nd year in a row had #1 overall(I had forgotten this) and trading down with Rams who had the 6th overall. Now this was Parcells in charge and it ended up working out for both teams as Rams took Orlando Pace who is now in the HOF. And the Jets went from 1-15 to the AFC Championship game 2 years later.

Yeah, no. This was back before the rookie cap so 1st overall picks are worth more now (especially with a highly touted QB). Jet passed on 2 HOF OTs and took a LB who only played 5 seasons with them.

 

[Maximus]

Yeah, no. This was back before the rookie cap so 1st overall picks are worth more now (especially with a highly touted QB). Jet passed on 2 HOF OTs and took a LB who only played 5 seasons with them.

And the picks they got helped them get too the AFC title game a few years later under Parcells.

If I needed to give up a HOF tackle or two to have a legitimate shot at winning a SB...I do it every time. And had Vinny not gotten hurt first play or two of the '99 season, Jets I'm convinced go back at least to another conference title game if not the SB.

If Jets could get an even bigger haul than what the Rams got for the RG3 pick and that is what your suggesting seeing as you say "1st overall picks are worth more now", well Douglass when he looks over this roster that has barely any significant talent, he absolutely has to consider dealing it away cause the rewards could be massive if the majority of players he selected or got back in return.

All taking Lawrence does is reset the whole thing back 3-4 years and we'd still need to continue to rebuild for another 2-3 years whether Lawrence was better than "Elway" as some suggest he'd be or not.

 

[17futurecap]

If the Jets have “earned” the first pick in the draft it means Sam made no progress, it means 2-14 or less, fair not fair, he would be finished here.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

If the Jets have “earned” the first pick in the draft it means Sam made no progress, it means 2-14 or less, fair not fair, he would be finished here.

Lol how can Sam possibly “make progress”? Cancer of a head coach, worst roster in the league, practice squad quality weapons. I do hope they trade him though, he deserves a chance with a competent organization. Hope he has a long and successful career, don’t care who it’s with.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Is there any chance the Giants/Jets say no to Lawerence because they like their QB?

 

[TheTimTamSlammerMan]

I agree. If the Giants or Jets somehow get the top pick, it means Jones or Darnold are not franchise QBs. Jones had the opportunity last week against the Bears. Even with the offensive PI, Jones made a shit throw and had plenty of time to extend the play further.

 

[JimmyG89]

Is there any chance the Giants/Jets say no to Lawerence because they like their QB?

The Giants would probably be the team that would be more in line with that thinking that the Jets. Gettleman drafted Jones. Douglass did not draft Darnold. I think Douglass would probably want to see Darnold with some actual weapons out there, but how much damage is being done by Gase and the situation he is in right now?

I think either is pointless as I do not see either team getting the #1 pick. The Giants got back in that game after Barkley got hurt. They will win 4-5 games and be in the top 5. The Jets could contend for it, but if they just can Gase at the bye, I could see the team winning games without his "genius offensive mind" running the show.

I know they got it last year, but the Bengals are still a brutal football team, even with getting Burrow. They'll likely get that top pick again.