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OT: 2020 Football Thread: Offseason Edition

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MahomesIsGod said:
The Giants don’t look great but the Jets are in another league

the jets are like...scary bad. The Giants are just a typical not very good team
Click to expand...

This is a pretty good read on both teams. The Giants have some hope...there are some pieces to build upon even with Barkley done for the year. The coach Judge is head and shoulders above Gase and he's only coached two games that's how bad Gase is.

If I'm a Giant fan which I'm not obviously, tho not thrilled with the 0-2 start, I'd not be panicking at all.

As a Jet fan as I am, it is panic time as we are abominable with no real hope which is quite sad actually.

Here's the thing....On those rare occasions when we are good, we are just not good enough. And even when we suck as we do right now, we don't suck enough.

So that scenario I painted in my previous post about the Jets not getting the #1 overall pick and losing out to the Lions last week of the season...that's what's going to happen this year...you can go to the bank on it!....uggggggg
 
Yep, considering the 0-2 start, I'm definitely a fan of what I've seen out of Judge as a coach so far. He's got the team playing solid and IMO maybe even overachieving considering the state of the roster.

The crappy situation for me is that I want Judge to succeed while I'm desperate for Gettlemen to get the hell out there. And I'm not exactly sure how that's going to work.

You just can't build a team the way Gettleman has been doing it. And for those who say he's finally establishing a strong foundation, it's quite simply taken too long. The way contracts work in the NFL, you just can't build your team one draft at a time centered around a top 5-10 pick at a premier position.

Saquon is going to need a new contract as a #2 OA running back.
The next year Jones is going to expect to get paid as a #6 OA QB.
The year after that, if he pans out, we're going to have to pay Thomas as a #4 OA LT.
And then whoever we draft this year, when they come off their rookie contract, we'll have to pay as a top 5 draft pick @ CB, LT or WR etc.
Not to mention what Leonard Williams is expecting to (and currently) get paid as a supposedly elite DT/DE. And (though I like him) we just made Bradberry the 6th highest paid CB in the league!

How is a future roster expected to be any more balanced or deep when the Giants will be saddled with BIG MONEY contracts at RB, QB, LT and CB(x2?)? Like, literally that's basically the list of highest avg salary positions in the NFL and we're expected to have contracts given to every one of them?

The only way for it to work is for the Giants to be a Super Bowl contender sometime in the next 2-4 years? It's taken Gettleman 3 years to get this roster to ~4-12. Now fans are being asked to believe he's gonna turn 4-12 to a Superbowl in 2 years?
 
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Maximus said:
Actually Crowder is just fine and doesn't lack anything to be frank. He is what he is. A solid slot WR who should never be considered your #1 WR but rather a complimentary piece in a teams passing offense.

The only issue with Crowder is that he's injury prone but when he's on the field, he's solid. I have no problems whatsoever with Crowder and he is the least of our problems.
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he was drafted in Round 4 and his history speaks for itself. He’s ordinary.
 
ponzu4u said:
Yep, considering the 0-2 start, I'm definitely a fan of what I've seen out of Judge as a coach so far. He's got the team playing solid and IMO maybe even overachieving considering the state of the roster.

The crappy situation for me is that I want Judge to succeed while I'm desperate for Gettlemen to get the hell out there. And I'm not exactly sure how that's going to work.

You just can't build a team the way Gettleman has been doing it. And for those who say he's finally establishing a strong foundation, it's quite simply taken too long. The way contracts work in the NFL, you just can't build your team one draft at a time centered around a top 5-10 pick at a premier position.

Saquon is going to need a new contract as a #2 OA running back.
The next year Jones is going to expect to get paid as a #6 OA QB.
The year after that, if he pans out, we're going to have to pay Thomas as a #4 OA LT.
And then whoever we draft this year, when they come off their rookie contract, we'll have to pay as a top 5 draft pick @ CB, LT or WR etc.
Not to mention what Leonard Williams is expecting to (and currently) get paid as a supposedly elite DT/DE. And (though I like him) we just made Bradberry the 6th highest paid CB in the league!

How is a future roster expected to be any more balanced or deep when the Giants will be saddled with BIG MONEY contracts at RB, QB, LT and CB(x2?)? Like, literally that's basically the list of highest avg salary positions in the NFL and we're expected to have contracts given to every one of them?

The only way for it to work is for the Giants to be a Super Bowl contender sometime in the next 2-4 years? It's taken Gettleman 3 years to get this roster to ~4-12. Now fans are being asked to believe he's gonna turn 4-12 to a Superbowl in 2 years?
Click to expand...


Confusing post. You like what you see but as it they can’t win and are poorly constructed

ahh, yeah
 
NYSPORTS said:
he was drafted in Round 4 and his history speaks for itself. He’s ordinary.
Click to expand...
Who cares where he was drafted? His production has vastly exceeded his draft position already.

He's a 60-70 catch, 800 yard guy. That's not "ordinary." It's very good. He's just not close to a #1, which again, is part of the reason the Jets are so f***ed. He's a #2-#3.
 
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NYSPORTS said:
Confusing post. You like what you see but as it they can’t win and are poorly constructed

ahh, yeah
Click to expand...

Surprised this needs clarification, but whatever...

I like what I've seen from Judge, who inherited a poorly constructed football team that will be over-matched talent-wise throughout the season, and gotten them to play competitively against two solid teams who clearly had more talent across their rosters than the Giants. Giants teams under McAdoo and especially Shurmer were regularly an embarrassment to watch. The first half against Chicago was rough, but overall, I feel there is a significant improvement in the cohesiveness of this year's team to years past. I am cautiously optimistic based on these two games that Judge will actually get this team to collectively perform above their talent level over the remaining parts of the season. Thus far, in my opinion, he and his staff have shown a competence that is at the very least an improvement over the previous regime.

Clearly, two games is an extremely limited sample size, but considering those were his first two games as a head coach, working with a limited off-season, and not a single preseason game, I find myself somewhat pleasantly surprised by the team's performance and am actually looking forward to watching both Judge and the team's development over the rest of the season. There was never any doubt in my mind the Giants would not be a good team this year, thus I feel no need to get particularly upset that they lost the first two games of the season to teams they were expected to lose to.

And finally, and perhaps most importantly -- I believe there is value in evaluating the performance of a team within the context of a loss, and in a greater sense, within the context of (realistically) lowered expectations.
 
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Yeah, a competent blocking RB will net the Giants at least one or two wins this year.

5-11 is my final guess

Three wins against Washington and Philly combined, and I think they win the games against Cleveland and Cincy.
 
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ponzu4u said:
Yep, considering the 0-2 start, I'm definitely a fan of what I've seen out of Judge as a coach so far. He's got the team playing solid and IMO maybe even overachieving considering the state of the roster.

The crappy situation for me is that I want Judge to succeed while I'm desperate for Gettlemen to get the hell out there. And I'm not exactly sure how that's going to work.

You just can't build a team the way Gettleman has been doing it. And for those who say he's finally establishing a strong foundation, it's quite simply taken too long. The way contracts work in the NFL, you just can't build your team one draft at a time centered around a top 5-10 pick at a premier position.

Saquon is going to need a new contract as a #2 OA running back.
The next year Jones is going to expect to get paid as a #6 OA QB.
The year after that, if he pans out, we're going to have to pay Thomas as a #4 OA LT.
And then whoever we draft this year, when they come off their rookie contract, we'll have to pay as a top 5 draft pick @ CB, LT or WR etc.
Not to mention what Leonard Williams is expecting to (and currently) get paid as a supposedly elite DT/DE. And (though I like him) we just made Bradberry the 6th highest paid CB in the league!

How is a future roster expected to be any more balanced or deep when the Giants will be saddled with BIG MONEY contracts at RB, QB, LT and CB(x2?)? Like, literally that's basically the list of highest avg salary positions in the NFL and we're expected to have contracts given to every one of them?

The only way for it to work is for the Giants to be a Super Bowl contender sometime in the next 2-4 years? It's taken Gettleman 3 years to get this roster to ~4-12. Now fans are being asked to believe he's gonna turn 4-12 to a Superbowl in 2 years?
Click to expand...

Saquan isn't getting jack-f***ing-shit right now. He can hold out all he wants. Dude just tore his ACL. He lost all negotiating power.
 
nyr2k2 said:
Who cares where he was drafted? His production has vastly exceeded his draft position already.

He's a 60-70 catch, 800 yard guy. That's not "ordinary." It's very good. He's just not close to a #1, which again, is part of the reason the Jets are so f***ed. He's a #2-#3.
Click to expand...

hey, if you love him, great. In Washington, he wasn’t retained b/c his contributions are ordinary. If 847 yards is the high bar, that’s ordinary on many franchises. If you’re happy with him, awesome.
 
I Eat Crow said:
Yeah, a competent blocking RB will net the Giants at least one or two wins this year.

5-11 is my final guess

Three wins against Washington and Philly combined, and I think they win the games against Cleveland and Cincy.
Click to expand...
I would be worried about Football team if I were a giants fan. What offensive lineman is containing chase young? Let alone Sweatt and Kerrigan.

The Cards were able to combat that because Kyler is such a special athlete in the pocket. Jones is mobile but he’s not going to neutralize that DL like only a Kyler can.
 
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ponzu4u said:
Surprised this needs clarification, but whatever...

I like what I've seen from Judge, who inherited a poorly constructed football team that will be over-matched talent-wise throughout the season, and gotten them to play competitively against two solid teams who clearly had more talent across their rosters than the Giants. Giants teams under McAdoo and especially Shurmer were regularly an embarrassment to watch. The first half against Chicago was rough, but overall, I feel there is a significant improvement in the cohesiveness of this year's team to years past. I am cautiously optimistic based on these two games that Judge will actually get this team to collectively perform above their talent level over the remaining parts of the season. Thus far, in my opinion, he and his staff have shown a competence that is at the very least an improvement over the previous regime.

Clearly, two games is an extremely limited sample size, but considering those were his first two games as a head coach, working with a limited off-season, and not a single preseason game, I find myself somewhat pleasantly surprised by the team's performance and am actually looking forward to watching both Judge and the team's development over the rest of the season. There was never any doubt in my mind the Giants would not be a good team this year, thus I feel no need to get particularly upset that they lost the first two games of the season to teams they were expected to lose to.

And finally, and perhaps most importantly -- I believe there is value in evaluating the performance of a team within the context of a loss, and in a greater sense, within the context of (realistically) lowered expectations.
Click to expand...

i’ve agreed with a lot yet so many directions.

yeah, they try hard - but it’s a sample size

and the look better but they’re constructed poorly

etc, etc etc

i like judge but the team stinks. What are we celebrating here? Yippe, they went 0-2 yet weren’t annihilated?

And back to McAdoo, ahh, didn’t the Giants go 11-5 with him? Didn’t he want to trade up for Mahomes? People love to make him the scapegoat while the QB was finished and this owner made sure he wasn’t around when Eli received the message on Monday. All week long the owner did nothing to help the young coach. The rest is history and here we are. A train wreck since Gettleman took over and 0-2 yet again.

Can any of these fans even name the Giants DB’s starting and drafted over the past 3 years?
 
NYSPORTS said:
hey, if you love him, great. In Washington, he wasn’t retained b/c his contributions are ordinary. If 847 yards is the high bar, that’s ordinary on many franchises. If you’re happy with him, awesome.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:

You have this incredibly annoying propensity to ignore things that people write and instead build these absurd straw men.

In my two posts, I said he was "fine" and a "#2-#3” and added "if he's the best you have you're in trouble." Yet somehow you take from that that I "love him" and his production is the "high bar." Come f***ing on.

60-70 catches and 800 yards is objectively not ordinary. Both of those will put you top-50 in a league where you'll have 200 guys catch 20 balls or 200 yards. It puts you top quarter of regular WRs and probably top 10% of guys who spend multiple games on rosters. Ordinary, sure. It's not f***ing mind blowing production but it makes you a good player. And yes I know all about Washington, I live in that market and saw the majority of his games here. They are also a prime example of another horribly run franchise, so their player evaluations don't move me.

The reason you can't go more than two posts without getting into a bitch-fest with someone is because of garbage like this. How about you respond to what people actually post instead of acting like an obnoxious troll?
 
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nyr2k2 said:
:rolleyes:

You have this incredibly annoying propensity to ignore things that people write and instead build these absurd straw men.

In my two posts, I said he was "fine" and a "#2-#3” and added "if he's the best you have you're in trouble." Yet somehow you take from that that I "love him" and his production is the "high bar." Come f***ing on.
Click to expand...

i said the same thing. How about you learn to read? He’s a complimentary receiver and not a #1. What’s his Jets role?
 
nyr2k2 said:
:laugh: You are seriously the worst.
Click to expand...

Yawn

you said “The Jets...Jamison Crowder is fine, but if he is your best WR, you're in trouble.”

i agree and said he has the same issue in Washington. Washington had him as their best WR so got into trouble b/c he’s ordinary,


Somehow i misread? They’re your words lol
 
The pessimism and negativity in this thread is at an all time high. Dismissive of any comments trying to look at the positives.

There have been some positives with the Giants. The team competes much harder. They compete in general. Certainly much more than they did for Shurmur. They are only 2 weeks in with a new coaching staff and no preseason. They also have 2 new key secondary pieces in Bradberry and Ryan who have been good imo. Darnay Holmes has looked decent. Mckinney is out. Martinez has been all over the field. Fackrell has been noticeable. Carter has been good so far, better than prior years. Still don’t like their edge rush but overall their defense has been good.

They need their O-Line to continue to create cohesion as a unit. The running game needs to get going.
 
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NYSPORTS said:
Once Ben warmed up the Steelers couldn’t be stopped. The Steelers defense held Barkley to 6 yards on 15 carries. It was 26-10 with under 2 min to go lol

The Bears went to sleep at 17-0 like the did against the Lions the previous week.

The Giants weren’t close to 2-0 let alone 1-1. Last gift in Chicago neither of the two WR targets even went into the endzone lol.
Click to expand...

Talking about Cowboys
 
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